Hmm sam, whats really sad now is for some reason I remember something about ruby on rails and reading it sometime in the last couple of days. But where I read it or what it is is way beyond me right now.
DragonZX,
Ok I have read all,..... (most)..... ok, ok some of the posts, and the artical (Ok I didin't actually read it, but I might)
I have two very important questions.
1. Why should he use Ruby on Rails?
2. What the H##L is ruby on rails?
Sam
Boredom + time = reply
General observations....(yea I'll show my age...)
1. Years ago information was not readily available at the touch of a return key.
2. Years ago "look it up in the dictionary" was considered the proper response to "how do you spell _________?"
3. Years ago *everyone* knew how to fish (or change the oil in their car, or hang a picture or paint a room, or service their own heating system).
4. Years ago self-reliance was something to be proud of i.e.-"I CAN fix that".
That was then, this is now...
1. I expect NO I demand *instant* everything. And, society for the most part provides it.
2. I make so much money I can buy my fish.
3. I don't need to *know* anything, I just need to be able to 'afford' it OR get it for free anyway I can.
4. I refuse to be self-relient, because the government, my parents, my boss, my teachers, my mommy, my forum, OWE me.
While technology abounds along with it comes a certain level of 'laziness' or a self-imposed 'helplessness'. Basically, people (myself included here...) like to take the path of least resistance (or the path of least work).
Now, this isn't necessarily a 'bad' thing, it's just a different thing.
(ok...do I hit the 'submit reply button' or not...hmmmm....)
note: Mongrel's doghouse is fire-retardant
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
mongrel is right. the age of entitlement is upon us.
but who is to blame? our parents wanted more for their children than they
had but at the same time, we learned what they had they accummulated
over years (maybe earned is better than accummulated?). this generation
wants those same things to start with. why is that?
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
mongrel is right. the age of entitlement is upon us.
but who is to blame? our parents wanted more for their children than they
had but at the same time, we learned what they had they accummulated
over years (maybe earned is better than accummulated?). this generation
wants those same things to start with. why is that?
2. Years ago "look it up in the dictionary" was considered the proper response to "how do you spell _________?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I used to hate this with a passion! One thing I can not do is spell!!! As a child this is all I heard, but if I don't know how to spell it, how the heck can you find it in the dictonary? No one has been able to answer that one.
Thank goodness someone with more compasion for those of us afflicted with CSS developed spell check. After I win the lottery I plan to erect a monument to him / her.
I will also license and donate this life saving technology to Digital Grin, so that many of the afflicted, can fully participate in the discussions here without the stigma associated with CSS.
Tonight I had a question about custom pricing on smugmug. I figured I could simply ask in the customization thread and get an answer within half an hour. But I know other people would have had this question so I did a search, didn't understand the info I found so I re-read it, followed a link, and found my answer. Took 2 minutes for me to get an answer vs 30. Plus I didn't have to waste andy's time, mikes time, devbobos time, or bigwebguys time, let alone onethumbs time. Doing things for yourself pays off people. Everyone should try it.
I'm on the same page as Mongrel. Funny thing is self-reliance is kind of addictive. Knowing that you can do something for yourself is kind of nice...helps with self-image even.
Here's an example: My brother & I are car nuts and subscribe to a particular nutty car magazine that got us going on building a car, so we now have a Pinto (yeah chuckle now...) that has a 351 stuffed in it. It's fugly as heck right now, but it runs and that first ride was probably the best ever. Why? Because we built the darn thing practically from the groud up & made it work ourselves.
(go ahead, flame away, I have a fire extinguisher and know how to use it.:uhoh)
I wanted to go with the nice guy, help to noobs, my posts on this thread have been, 'show care to new photographers as was shown to me when all this stuff was completely foreign'.
I am not trying to make a business out of it, I am not and never will be an artist. But when I joined here I was given total support, believing that the other members of the forum were gods all 500 of them so I didn't want to look like an idiot so I looked for answers before I asked for help, Infact I think I only ever buy something after I have read about it here rather than asked about on Dgrin. but now I'm pissed HERE
been here since Jan posted 112 posts sorry but... I now agree there is help and there is spoon feeding
Yours, rather disillusioned
Stan
PS this is stil the greatest site. There is no bitching no superiority, no Nikon Ca.... etc crap give help where it is warranted, treat a new guy as you were treated, and ignore repetitive or plain ignorant posts.
sorry Rosselliot, but if you have been here that long and cannot fond links to posts here, shops or other sites to find the answer to that... then... I really do not know
and this may be the first direct flame on this forum.
and this may be the first direct flame on this forum.
I wish you well
Stan
. Well, Hmmm let me say this.
I do not support direct flaming, name calling, personal attacks, etc. Unless it's previously authorized by a forum god of course (any time you need someone to give crash a hard time andy you know I'm willing). So lets not make this a habit.
Instead I will say this. All questions are always welcome as we are hear to help however. To the poster of the question that ruffled stans feathers.
That is exactly the type of question that this thread is ment to deal with but why our esteemed posted dealt with it the way the did surprises me. I would have thought they would have given you the tools to find the information not half answers. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.....
So for those of you who didn't beleive me that we did have this issue well Stan gave proof.
I, for one, believe that a reasonable question deserves a reasonable answer, and an unreasonable question may also deserve a reasonable answer.
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/uhoh2.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> If we want DGrin to prosper and grow, if we want others to know that intelligent, helpful people exist here, we need to act as helpful and respectful individuals. (Although, I have been known to poke fun at a few of the questions myself. :uhoh)
To give the answer that, "You can find that for yourself on Google" sounds great, but it is not necessarily helpful. There is lots of misinformation on the Internet, and some really bad information. It is all equally accessible.
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12pt;height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/xzicon_smile_cool.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> If a child came to you and asked, "where do babies come from?", you might research the Internet to help provide answers, but you certainly wouldn't deliver all of that information back to the child. (Go ahead, look up "baby" and "sex" on Google and tell me how many porn sites pop up. )
I feel the best way to help in this forum is to expand the "Hall of Wisdom" to cover common questions, even questions we might consider basic, simple or silly. The responses can include links to trusted information. Then we can direct the requestor to a specific area where other information is also available.
Who knows, we might become a favorite Google link that way and attract even more people, which is a much better problem to have (more people.)
I, for one, believe that a reasonable question deserves a reasonable answer, and an unreasonable question may also deserve a reasonable answer.
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/uhoh2.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> If we want DGrin to prosper and grow, if we want others to know that intelligent, helpful people exist here, we need to act as helpful and respectful individuals. (Although, I have been known to poke fun at a few of the questions myself. :uhoh)
To give the answer that, "You can find that for yourself on Google" sounds great,
Doesn't sound great to me. To me saying. "wow thats a really loaded question. There is an awful lot of information on this and any short answer I could give you hear wouldn't really explain anything to you. The best thing to get the answer you want is go to google and do a search on canon lense mounts and nikon lense mounts. That way you can learn the different types, and the histories of them so you can understand what you are looking at."
I feel the best way to help in this forum is to expand the "Hall of Wisdom" to cover common questions, even questions we might consider basic, simple or silly. The responses can include links to trusted information. Then we can direct the requestor to a specific area where other information is also available.
Who knows, we might become a favorite Google link that way and attract even more people, which is a much better problem to have (more people.)
Doesn't sound great to me. To me saying. "wow thats a really loaded question. There is an awful lot of information on this and any short answer I could give you hear wouldn't really explain anything to you. The best thing to get the answer you want is go to google and do a search on canon lense mounts and nikon lense mounts. That way you can learn the different types, and the histories of them so you can understand what you are looking at."
I just tried what you suggested and got three million, six hundred eighty thousand results. You might be pleased that you are provided with so many choices, but a new person might feel absolutely overwhelmed.
So how many of those are really valid?
Fortunately, Wikipedia.Org showed up as the second entry, and it contains a pretty good answer at that, IMHO.
Unfortunately, the very first result talks about the "Novoflex Nikon Lens to Canon EOS Body Adapter" which is probably not a good basic answer to the basic question asked about compatibility.
Are you going to trust a new person to understand the difference?
Is it likely for that person to return to this place, DGrin, for information?
I have met a number of people here who started pretty simply, but wound up as fairly good shooters, who started sharing their experiences and information here. I think part of the reason they stayed is because of the friendly, helpful environment and people. I'd kinda like to see that atmosphere remain.
I do think you have a valid point about people being unaware of, and potentially leery of, how to use the Internet as a research tool, and that they need to be educated on how relatively easy it is to do. Are you suggesting that we educate new people on the use of Internet search tools?
The problem is that when a new person shows up here, we can't assume their level of competence using Internet tools. If we want Digital Grin to continue as a premiere source of photographic information, we need to continue providing information of the highest quality, in as topical a fashion as possible. It's all part of the service and support that distinguishes a good site from a great site.
Oddly, this approach of looking stuff up on search engines instead of direct response, was never applied to the "Car Talk Thread". I admit to getting pretty tangential in that thread myself, but that's the area where it "should" be applied, since this is a "photographic" site.
Please take all I say in the spirit of debate and not aggression. This is far from the most serious issue in my life, and ... I "love" you Dragon, in that manly punch-on-the-shoulder kinda way.
Ahh but see zig I never said this was an end all solve all solution, I never said people shouldn't ask questions. We covered this in this thread many times already. The point is to help people become more self reliant and ask better questions. No it's not a 100% solution, no its not a life or death problem, it's something to consider and keep in mind when answering and asking questions. If I were to ask a question that i could phrase better or find the answer for easily on my own I would want someone to push me in the right direction.
I don't see the big deal here. Folks are at varying levels of knowledge of both photography and the internet. If someone asks a question you feel is "dumb" or lazy don't answer it.
When I started out I asked lots of "dumb questions" and didn't ask lots of other "dumb" questions I should have asked.
I will try to answer any question that someone puts out if I have the info or can easily get it. I will provide the person with the link so hopefully he/she will refer to it in the future. At times I will tell the person that I got the info by doing a google search.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Comments
Hmm sam, whats really sad now is for some reason I remember something about ruby on rails and reading it sometime in the last couple of days. But where I read it or what it is is way beyond me right now.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Funny, this is exactly what Gary was talking about: "google is your friend"
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
General observations....(yea I'll show my age...)
1. Years ago information was not readily available at the touch of a return key.
2. Years ago "look it up in the dictionary" was considered the proper response to "how do you spell _________?"
3. Years ago *everyone* knew how to fish (or change the oil in their car, or hang a picture or paint a room, or service their own heating system).
4. Years ago self-reliance was something to be proud of i.e.-"I CAN fix that".
That was then, this is now...
1. I expect NO I demand *instant* everything. And, society for the most part provides it.
2. I make so much money I can buy my fish.
3. I don't need to *know* anything, I just need to be able to 'afford' it OR get it for free anyway I can.
4. I refuse to be self-relient, because the government, my parents, my boss, my teachers, my mommy, my forum, OWE me.
While technology abounds along with it comes a certain level of 'laziness' or a self-imposed 'helplessness'. Basically, people (myself included here...) like to take the path of least resistance (or the path of least work).
Now, this isn't necessarily a 'bad' thing, it's just a different thing.
(ok...do I hit the 'submit reply button' or not...hmmmm....)
note: Mongrel's doghouse is fire-retardant
We'll work out the exact amount later.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
You take Grey Goose martinis, don't ya?
We so missed you in Utah, man!
but who is to blame? our parents wanted more for their children than they
had but at the same time, we learned what they had they accummulated
over years (maybe earned is better than accummulated?). this generation
wants those same things to start with. why is that?
Thanks Google
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
OMG, it's an entire generation...
Oh......wait a second.......I'm in that generation. DOH!!
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
So am I Nick but you don't see me expecting to get everything handed to me. Problem is not enough people have been smacked by reality yet.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
2. Years ago "look it up in the dictionary" was considered the proper response to "how do you spell _________?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I used to hate this with a passion! One thing I can not do is spell!!! As a child this is all I heard, but if I don't know how to spell it, how the heck can you find it in the dictonary? No one has been able to answer that one.
Thank goodness someone with more compasion for those of us afflicted with CSS developed spell check. After I win the lottery I plan to erect a monument to him / her.
I will also license and donate this life saving technology to Digital Grin, so that many of the afflicted, can fully participate in the discussions here without the stigma associated with CSS.
Sam
i just got a kewl camera i spent a lot of money on and my pictures don';t come out as nice as the ones on here
what lens should i buy?
Sorry Kaos it's not the lens, you are using the wrong shutter finger on the wrong body
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
In fact, I've decided to take up brain surgery based on this very technique!
Really. I've done some studying on the subject myself. Who is the patient? I'd be more than happy to assist in the surgery.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
the "patient" is ME.....
Here's an example: My brother & I are car nuts and subscribe to a particular nutty car magazine that got us going on building a car, so we now have a Pinto (yeah chuckle now...) that has a 351 stuffed in it. It's fugly as heck right now, but it runs and that first ride was probably the best ever. Why? Because we built the darn thing practically from the groud up & made it work ourselves.
(go ahead, flame away, I have a fire extinguisher and know how to use it.:uhoh)
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/
I am not trying to make a business out of it, I am not and never will be an artist. But when I joined here I was given total support, believing that the other members of the forum were gods all 500 of them so I didn't want to look like an idiot so I looked for answers before I asked for help, Infact I think I only ever buy something after I have read about it here rather than asked about on Dgrin. but now I'm pissed HERE
been here since Jan posted 112 posts sorry but... I now agree there is help and there is spoon feeding
Yours, rather disillusioned
Stan
PS this is stil the greatest site. There is no bitching no superiority, no Nikon Ca.... etc crap give help where it is warranted, treat a new guy as you were treated, and ignore repetitive or plain ignorant posts.
sorry Rosselliot, but if you have been here that long and cannot fond links to posts here, shops or other sites to find the answer to that... then... I really do not know
and this may be the first direct flame on this forum.
I wish you well
Stan
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I do not support direct flaming, name calling, personal attacks, etc. Unless it's previously authorized by a forum god of course (any time you need someone to give crash a hard time andy you know I'm willing). So lets not make this a habit.
Instead I will say this. All questions are always welcome as we are hear to help however. To the poster of the question that ruffled stans feathers.
That is exactly the type of question that this thread is ment to deal with but why our esteemed posted dealt with it the way the did surprises me. I would have thought they would have given you the tools to find the information not half answers. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.....
So for those of you who didn't beleive me that we did have this issue well Stan gave proof.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/uhoh2.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> If we want DGrin to prosper and grow, if we want others to know that intelligent, helpful people exist here, we need to act as helpful and respectful individuals. (Although, I have been known to poke fun at a few of the questions myself. :uhoh)
To give the answer that, "You can find that for yourself on Google" sounds great, but it is not necessarily helpful. There is lots of misinformation on the Internet, and some really bad information. It is all equally accessible.
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12pt;height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" o:href="http://www.dgrin.com/images/smilies/xzicon_smile_cool.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> If a child came to you and asked, "where do babies come from?", you might research the Internet to help provide answers, but you certainly wouldn't deliver all of that information back to the child. (Go ahead, look up "baby" and "sex" on Google and tell me how many porn sites pop up.
I feel the best way to help in this forum is to expand the "Hall of Wisdom" to cover common questions, even questions we might consider basic, simple or silly. The responses can include links to trusted information. Then we can direct the requestor to a specific area where other information is also available.
Who knows, we might become a favorite Google link that way and attract even more people, which is a much better problem to have (more people.)
Best,
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Doesn't sound great to me. To me saying. "wow thats a really loaded question. There is an awful lot of information on this and any short answer I could give you hear wouldn't really explain anything to you. The best thing to get the answer you want is go to google and do a search on canon lense mounts and nikon lense mounts. That way you can learn the different types, and the histories of them so you can understand what you are looking at."
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
That's a nice idea, Ziggy.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
I just tried what you suggested and got three million, six hundred eighty thousand results. You might be pleased that you are provided with so many choices, but a new person might feel absolutely overwhelmed.
So how many of those are really valid?
Fortunately, Wikipedia.Org showed up as the second entry, and it contains a pretty good answer at that, IMHO.
Unfortunately, the very first result talks about the "Novoflex Nikon Lens to Canon EOS Body Adapter" which is probably not a good basic answer to the basic question asked about compatibility.
Are you going to trust a new person to understand the difference?
Is it likely for that person to return to this place, DGrin, for information?
I have met a number of people here who started pretty simply, but wound up as fairly good shooters, who started sharing their experiences and information here. I think part of the reason they stayed is because of the friendly, helpful environment and people. I'd kinda like to see that atmosphere remain.
I do think you have a valid point about people being unaware of, and potentially leery of, how to use the Internet as a research tool, and that they need to be educated on how relatively easy it is to do. Are you suggesting that we educate new people on the use of Internet search tools?
The problem is that when a new person shows up here, we can't assume their level of competence using Internet tools. If we want Digital Grin to continue as a premiere source of photographic information, we need to continue providing information of the highest quality, in as topical a fashion as possible. It's all part of the service and support that distinguishes a good site from a great site.
Oddly, this approach of looking stuff up on search engines instead of direct response, was never applied to the "Car Talk Thread". I admit to getting pretty tangential in that thread myself, but that's the area where it "should" be applied, since this is a "photographic" site.
Please take all I say in the spirit of debate and not aggression. This is far from the most serious issue in my life, and ... I "love" you Dragon, in that manly punch-on-the-shoulder kinda way.
Best,
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
When I started out I asked lots of "dumb questions" and didn't ask lots of other "dumb" questions I should have asked.
I will try to answer any question that someone puts out if I have the info or can easily get it. I will provide the person with the link so hopefully he/she will refer to it in the future. At times I will tell the person that I got the info by doing a google search.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"