Confused about what the judges are looking for......

NanaMoNanaMo always grinningPosts: 189Registered Users Major grins
edited March 22, 2007 in The Dgrin Challenges
Well, that was fun for my first ever photo contest! I intend to enter LPS #2 but need a little guidance....a friend and I selected our top 10 and she picked one of the winners and I only picked 2. It seems we are both quite off course in understanding what the judges have for criteria for a qualifying photo. :dunno

Is it technical ability, creativity, originality.....I am just not understanding what you are looking for ...since LPS 2 will be only my second I would appreciate some guidance. :scratch

AdvThanksAnce,

Maureen :huh
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Comments

  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkPosts: 50,151Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    NanaMo wrote:
    Is it technical ability, creativity, originality....

    Yes.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt vrooom! Posts: 11,940Administrators moderator
    edited March 20, 2007
    Have you by any chance looked at this thread:
    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=56862
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • DeeDee Major grins Posts: 2,981Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    I suspect
    whatever the judges are looking for, it will change from each group of different judges...

    If you read this thread you might gain some inkling.http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=56871

    There are at least 3 photos I would have never have chosen, for what that's worth. Usually I'm pretty good at picking the finalists. Maybe my choices will match up better with the next group of judges :D

    Remember, the idea is to "shoot for yourself" and to "stretch" yourself both idea wise and technically.

    This current set of choices, stately or humble is particularly hard for me idea wise. I do have some ideas but I don't wish to pursue them. I'm sure they will be entered shortly.

    One idea I had, and we went out to find today, on closer inspection, won't work, so I'm back to trying to dream up something -- anything! rolleyes1.gif
  • CindyCindy Major grins Posts: 542Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    NanaMo wrote:
    Well, that was fun for my first ever photo contest! I intend to enter LPS #2 but need a little guidance....a friend and I selected our top 10 and she picked one of the winners and I only picked 2. It seems we are both quite off course in understanding what the judges have for criteria for a qualifying photo. ne_nau.gif

    Is it technical ability, creativity, originality.....I am just not understanding what you are looking for ...since LPS 2 will be only my second I would appreciate some guidance. headscratch.gif

    AdvThanksAnce,

    Maureen eek7.gif

    Hi Maureen & welcome to dgrin. If you look down through the theads you'll find several that contain posts about what the judges are looking for (critques, feedback, etc). Look for posts by Shay as I noticed his feedback today was very right on and informative. Others have posted awesome feedback also but Shay's really stands out IMHO.

    More than anything it's about 'feeling' the photo (you know like feelin the music :D ). It's about what does the photo speak to them, does it move them, grab them... stop and grab their attention... oh and yes does it fit within the theme :D At least that's what I've gathered today from reading the threads.

    I had picked 6 of the judges choices and thought that was great... I'm new to these challenges too. I was really interested in reading what & why's also... but I'm really glad to know now more about what their looking for... and I must say I completly agree with their how to even if I might still pick differently.

    Hope this helps some. More than anything have fun with it. I know I am :ivar
    Cindy Colbert (Utterback) • Wishing You Co-Bear Love, Hugs & Laughter!!!
  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    I was thinking along the lines of NanaMo....

    Hmmm, is it possible to get a better breakdown of how the photos are chosen? headscratch.gif I think the fact that I'm only had one photo on the same list as the finalists means something - I'm WAY off....

    Is there a formula that is used to break photos down? For example:
    1. Conveying the theme - If not, it's not chosen. The on to #2...
    2. Originality - If it's not original (sure, all photos are copies in some ways, but....) it's not chosen. Then on to #3....
    3. Technical abiility - if it's not in focus, it's poorly exposed, wrong aperature is chosen, it's not a finalist....
    Or whatever!

    I guess I'm asking because I see a few photos that weren't chosen that convey the theme and are more original and technically better than some of the winners in my mind.... Because the way I'm looking at them is very different, I worry that entering into the next contest is and exercise in futility. (I know, I know... it's stretching me as a photographer, but I have a lot of exercises I give myself in addition to these contests - which I often do even if I don't enter because of timing.)

    I'm not trying to whine or complain (really!), I'm just trying to understand the thought processes that are so different from mine!

    Thanks so much! :D

    (On a side note, I have read most of those threads and they're helpful, but I still don't feel like I'm on the same page. - added after reading the other two replies! Laughing.gif!)
  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    Cindy wrote:
    Hope this helps some. More than anything have fun with it. I know I am :ivar

    Fun?!?! We're supposed to have fun? rolleyes1.gif
  • NanaMoNanaMo always grinning Posts: 189Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    wow! Did I even finish hitting the enter key when....
    ...I got several responses? mwink.gif

    Thank you all so much for such immediate response! Yes, I did take the time to read most of the threads before I embarrased myself by asking the question. No, I am not blonde....since I was still confused after reading them and viewing other contest results.

    I will continue to view the comments and study the results in each 2 week period to see if I get closer to what the judges want or at least choose more than 2 winners...(which will help me better understand).

    Thanks again for your immediate responses, all.

    Maureen clap.gif
  • AngeloAngelo Turning frowns upsidedown Posts: 8,937Super Moderators moderator
    edited March 20, 2007
    NanaMo wrote:
    ...I got several responses? mwink.gif

    Thank you all so much for such immediate response! Yes, I did take the time to read most of the threads before I embarrased myself by asking the question. No, I am not blonde....since I was still confused after reading them and viewing other contest results.

    I will continue to view the comments and study the results in each 2 week period to see if I get closer to what the judges want or at least choose more than 2 winners...(which will help me better understand).

    Thanks again for your immediate responses, all.

    Maureen clap.gif

    May I respectfully suggest you stop worrying about what the "judges want"?

    Expend your energy more positively by contemplating your interpretation of the contest theme and going out and shooting with the passion to capture it.

    Good luck!
  • NanaMoNanaMo always grinning Posts: 189Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    thanks
    Angelo wrote:
    May I respectfully suggest you stop worrying about what the "judges want"?

    Expend your energy more positively by contemplating your interpretation of the contest theme and going out and shooting with the passion to capture it.

    Good luck!

    Thanks for the advice. Since it was my first and it was a contest I felt I had to please the judges....BUT...I will take to heart what you had to say and use the theme and do the best I can with the tools I posess. bowdown.gif


    Maureen
  • AngeloAngelo Turning frowns upsidedown Posts: 8,937Super Moderators moderator
    edited March 20, 2007
    NanaMo wrote:
    Thanks for the advice. Since it was my first and it was a contest I felt I had to please the judges....BUT...I will take to heart what you had to say and use the theme and do the best I can with the tools I posess. bowdown.gif


    Maureen

    http://images.43things.com/profile/00/04/43/279304xl.jpg
  • windozewindoze a life long newbie Posts: 2,846Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    Angelo wrote:
    May I respectfully suggest you stop worrying about what the "judges want"
    But isn't that the point of this?

    now dont get me wrong - im not complaining. im just responding to your point made here. But this is a contest, if you're not into winning, why even be in it? your final image is suppose to "please" the judges. I think it would be a prudent decision to understand what the judges are looking for......


    troy
  • LexLex Major grins Posts: 262Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    I heard a rumor from a reliable source that the judges are looking for photos.
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    Is there a formula that is used to break photos down? For example:
    1. Conveying the theme - If not, it's not chosen. The on to #2...
    2. Originality - If it's not original (sure, all photos are copies in some ways, but....) it's not chosen. Then on to #3....
    3. Technical abiility - if it's not in focus, it's poorly exposed, wrong aperature is chosen, it's not a finalist....
    Or whatever!
    Each judge is told that there are no rules for the judging. They are free do judge anyway they feel inclined. So I can only answer this for myself.

    If an image has no relation to the theme, I am going to have a real hard time seeing how it is relevant to the task. Imagine if I were a Madison avenue ad firm and I hired you as a photographer to produce something for me that visually said "chilly" for our new line of arctic blast cappuccino twisters, I don't care what it is, I want to be surprised, but I want to get that "chilly" message across to the customers I am going to spend millions of dollars to advertise to. And you come back with a photo of a monkey picking it's butt. More than likely, chairs would start flying and cries of "diva" would start ringing down the avenue. So ya, you gotta find a way to convey the theme idea, even if it takes some thought to see the connection.

    Originality, it is always nice to see, because people thrive on the unexpected. That is part of the idea of having a dual contrasting theme. It increases the chances of seeing something unexpected. But that shouldn't mean that every entry has to be different. If there are multiple steaming tea pots in a contest, it makes it a little easier to pick the best one. I don't care that there are three, I care about which one does the best job. And if I can't decide between them because they all rock the house down, then there will be three tea pots in my top 10 list.

    Technical ability. This for me is not the big bugaboo many make it out to be. Yes, having things in focus and well exposed are important, but not everything is well exposed and in focus in real life. So there may be a photo that breaks all the rules and yet still changes my life. I am going to go for content over technicals almost every time unless the poor technicals degrade the photo to the point where a lesser image begins to look better because of it.

    Have you ever heard a person sing a song technically correct, but lacking soul or feeling? It leaves you hollow and feeling cheated doesn't it. It's not the technicals that make the song, though they are important, but what really sells the song is the soul, the feeling, and how it makes you feel. Does the song give you chills? That is a song you are going to remember. Does it make you cry, smile, yearn? Those are great songs. Make your photographs great by giving them soul and feeling, make them dig deep into my brain and not let go. Do that, I a guarantee I am voting for you!

    Now if you are hoping for a formula you can follow to get great judging results, forget it. There are too many various judges, whims, tastes, and moods. I might be in a bad mood one day, and get very critical about something I usually let slide more often. Them's the breaks.

    Just like in real life. You might have to work with an art director that loves what is going on, and then at the last minute, bammo, the world goes topsy-turvy, and you are on the street wondering what just happened and why they dumped the project that was going so well. But it happens, and getting the experience to deal with that and keep going forward is what separates the successful from the could have beens.

    If you enter the photography world green and tender emotionally, you will get eaten alive. You have to develop a thick skin that allows for rejection, even irrational rejection and not take it personally, but just as an indication it didn't work out this time, and to "try the next tree to see if it has fruit". Giving up or worse, burning the bridges behind you, is a quick road to failure.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    windoze wrote:
    But isn't that the point of this?

    now dont get me wrong - im not complaining. im just responding to your point made here. But this is a contest, if you're not into winning, why even be in it? your final image is suppose to "please" the judges. I think it would be a prudent decision to understand what the judges are looking for......


    troy

    I agree.

    When I go to take a photo that I think might be a winner (or contender or a photo that I just think might be good), I will go take several in differering ways. One may appeal most to me, another may appeal more to others - or the judges. Knowing what the judges START their judging with may help me choose the best of that batch - for that contest - even if it isn't the one I would choose for myself.

    If all this was was a challenge, I would not worry about what others think. (Like my self portrait a day challenge. I don't care what others think - I do what feels right.)

    But when it's a contest, I think it helps to know that each LPS will be judged similarly with similar criteria so that I can make the best choice for the subject.

    Anyway.... :D I'm not trying to be a pain, I just want to understand HOW the photos are judged!

    mwink.gif
  • photogmommaphotogmomma Enormous giggles Posts: 1,644Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    Each judge is told that there are no rules for the judging. They are free do judge anyway they feel inclined. So I can only answer this for myself. (and everything else you wrote!)

    My very last response was posted before I read this... This is exactly what I was looking for!!! Thanks you very much for explaining this - and YOUR take on this....

    Thanks again! :D
  • NanaMoNanaMo always grinning Posts: 189Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 20, 2007
    Each judge is told that there are no rules for the judging. They are free do judge anyway they feel inclined. So I can only answer this for myself.

    If an image has no relation to the theme, I am going to have a real hard time seeing how it is relevant to the task. Imagine if I were a Madison avenue ad firm and I hired you as a photographer to produce something for me that visually said "chilly" for our new line of arctic blast cappuccino twisters, I don't care what it is, I want to be surprised, but I want to get that "chilly" message across to the customers I am going to spend millions of dollars to advertise to. And you come back with a photo of a monkey picking it's butt. More than likely, chairs would start flying and cries of "diva" would start ringing down the avenue. So ya, you gotta find a way to convey the theme idea, even if it takes some thought to see the connection.

    Originality, it is always nice to see, because people thrive on the unexpected. That is part of the idea of having a dual contrasting theme. It increases the chances of seeing something unexpected. But that shouldn't mean that every entry has to be different. If there are multiple steaming tea pots in a contest, it makes it a little easier to pick the best one. I don't care that there are three, I care about which one does the best job. And if I can't decide between them because they all rock the house down, then there will be three tea pots in my top 10 list.

    Technical ability. This for me is not the big bugaboo many make it out to be. Yes, having things in focus and well exposed are important, but not everything is well exposed and in focus in real life. So there may be a photo that breaks all the rules and yet still changes my life. I am going to go for content over technicals almost every time unless the poor technicals degrade the photo to the point where a lesser image begins to look better because of it.

    Have you ever heard a person sing a song technically correct, but lacking soul or feeling? It leaves you hollow and feeling cheated doesn't it. It's not the technicals that make the song, though they are important, but what really sells the song is the soul, the feeling, and how it makes you feel. Does the song give you chills? That is a song you are going to remember. Does it make you cry, smile, yearn? Those are great songs. Make your photographs great by giving them soul and feeling, make them dig deep into my brain and not let go. Do that, I a guarantee I am voting for you!

    Now if you are hoping for a formula you can follow to get great judging results, forget it. There are too many various judges, whims, tastes, and moods. I might be in a bad mood one day, and get very critical about something I usually let slide more often. Them's the breaks.

    Just like in real life. You might have to work with an art director that loves what is going on, and then at the last minute, bammo, the world goes topsy-turvy, and you are on the street wondering what just happened and why they dumped the project that was going so well. But it happens, and getting the experience to deal with that and keep going forward is what separates the successful from the could have beens.

    If you enter the photography world green and tender emotionally, you will get eaten alive. You have to develop a thick skin that allows for rejection, even irrational rejection and not take it personally, but just as an indication it didn't work out this time, and to "try the next tree to see if it has fruit". Giving up or worse, burning the bridges behind you, is a quick road to failure.

    Wow....originally I was going to pick out a paragraph and respond...than another ....then another....

    YOU are so right!! Haven't we all in our time had to make a decision about something? Wasn't it dependant on the rules of what we were judging and did it not depend on our mood, what is going on in our life, which way the wind is blowing, etc etc?

    YOUR response is AWESOME! Guess I was a bit timid an needed training wheels BUT I will surprise, nay, shock you with other enteries! Got some photos I am quite proud of that I hope will be allowed in the contests....if not I will suck it all up and re-read your response and still get your attention! rolleyes1.gifrofl

    Thanks for me and all that read this thread!! That was a special response!!

    Maureen
    iloveyou.gif
  • CindyCindy Major grins Posts: 542Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    Each judge is told that there are no rules for the judging. They are free do judge anyway they feel inclined. So I can only answer this for myself.

    If an image has no relation to the theme, I am going to have a real hard time seeing how it is relevant to the task. Imagine if I were a Madison avenue ad firm and I hired you as a photographer to produce something for me that visually said "chilly" for our new line of arctic blast cappuccino twisters, I don't care what it is, I want to be surprised, but I want to get that "chilly" message across to the customers I am going to spend millions of dollars to advertise to. And you come back with a photo of a monkey picking it's butt. More than likely, chairs would start flying and cries of "diva" would start ringing down the avenue. So ya, you gotta find a way to convey the theme idea, even if it takes some thought to see the connection.

    Originality, it is always nice to see, because people thrive on the unexpected. That is part of the idea of having a dual contrasting theme. It increases the chances of seeing something unexpected. But that shouldn't mean that every entry has to be different. If there are multiple steaming tea pots in a contest, it makes it a little easier to pick the best one. I don't care that there are three, I care about which one does the best job. And if I can't decide between them because they all rock the house down, then there will be three tea pots in my top 10 list.

    Technical ability. This for me is not the big bugaboo many make it out to be. Yes, having things in focus and well exposed are important, but not everything is well exposed and in focus in real life. So there may be a photo that breaks all the rules and yet still changes my life. I am going to go for content over technicals almost every time unless the poor technicals degrade the photo to the point where a lesser image begins to look better because of it.

    Have you ever heard a person sing a song technically correct, but lacking soul or feeling? It leaves you hollow and feeling cheated doesn't it. It's not the technicals that make the song, though they are important, but what really sells the song is the soul, the feeling, and how it makes you feel. Does the song give you chills? That is a song you are going to remember. Does it make you cry, smile, yearn? Those are great songs. Make your photographs great by giving them soul and feeling, make them dig deep into my brain and not let go. Do that, I a guarantee I am voting for you!

    Now if you are hoping for a formula you can follow to get great judging results, forget it. There are too many various judges, whims, tastes, and moods. I might be in a bad mood one day, and get very critical about something I usually let slide more often. Them's the breaks.

    Just like in real life. You might have to work with an art director that loves what is going on, and then at the last minute, bammo, the world goes topsy-turvy, and you are on the street wondering what just happened and why they dumped the project that was going so well. But it happens, and getting the experience to deal with that and keep going forward is what separates the successful from the could have beens.

    If you enter the photography world green and tender emotionally, you will get eaten alive. You have to develop a thick skin that allows for rejection, even irrational rejection and not take it personally, but just as an indication it didn't work out this time, and to "try the next tree to see if it has fruit". Giving up or worse, burning the bridges behind you, is a quick road to failure.

    Another awesome post Shay. I've very much enjoyed reading your comments today. I'm hearing you on the music feeling part loud and clear and loving the freedom I've gained in learning that's what you'll will be looking for. Wheels are set in motion in my mind for #2 now... oh my, if only I can capture what I'm feeling rolleyes1.gif
    Cindy Colbert (Utterback) • Wishing You Co-Bear Love, Hugs & Laughter!!!
  • DRabbitDRabbit Artsy-Fartsy Type Posts: 181Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    windoze wrote:
    But isn't that the point of this?
    now dont get me wrong - im not complaining. im just responding to your point made here. But this is a contest, if you're not into winning, why even be in it? your final image is suppose to "please" the judges. I think it would be a prudent decision to understand what the judges are looking for......
    troy
    But that's just it Troy, it depends on why you're entering. Me, I personally like the creative challenge and like to be "pushed" to shoot my best. I'll go out and shoot, and post-process and submit what I think is my best shot taken for the theme. The judges will either agree or not, but in either case I win, because I've gotten out of it what I came into it for. Anything additional is just a nice bonus.
    Amy :D
    Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.

    The Dang Gallery on DangRabbit - Follow me on Twitter or on Facebook
    Leica M8: Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon and 50mm f/2 Planar; Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5, 50mm f/1.5 Nokton and 75mm f/2.5 Heliar
    Olympus E-P1: Zuiko 14-42 and 25mm f/2.8 Pancake; Panasonic 45-200mm and 20mm f/1.7; and M-to-m4/3 adaptor
    Olympus e620: Zuiko 14-54 f/2.8-3.5
  • AngeloAngelo Turning frowns upsidedown Posts: 8,937Super Moderators moderator
    edited March 21, 2007
    windoze wrote:
    But isn't that the point of this?

    now dont get me wrong - im not complaining. im just responding to your point made here. But this is a contest, if you're not into winning, why even be in it? your final image is suppose to "please" the judges. I think it would be a prudent decision to understand what the judges are looking for......


    troy

    It is a contest, you should be into winning but if you try to please the judges which judge would you pick? You think I will see every image the same way you do or somwone else will?

    You have to chase your dream in the capture of your image. Hopefully that passion will (and I believe it will) come through.
  • AngeloAngelo Turning frowns upsidedown Posts: 8,937Super Moderators moderator
    edited March 21, 2007
    And you come back with a photo of a monkey picking its butt.

    You don't have to ask twice boss.
  • windozewindoze a life long newbie Posts: 2,846Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    DRabbit wrote:
    But that's just it Troy, it depends on why you're entering. Me, I personally like the creative challenge and like to be "pushed" to shoot my best. I'll go out and shoot, and post-process and submit what I think is my best shot taken for the theme. The judges will either agree or not, but in either case I win, because I've gotten out of it what I came into it for. Anything additional is just a nice bonus.

    i agree with you exactly....
    ya know Im begining to feel like noone understood what i was trying to say or where i was coming from!

    i proved to myself im a winner. ive been posting for years ( thousands of pictures ) going back to other forums where shay and andy ( and others ) used to come together and discuss the things that we discuss here. ive 99.99% of thime only used Av mode - been "afraid" to venture off into full manual mode. yet in the spirit of this 1st LPS challenge ive left my comfort zone and shot full manual! How's that for taking a risk? I personally put over 10 hours into my image and I like what i produced. I never expected on my first entry to make it but here is where things got a little confused....

    when the results were first announced, i said to myself "my gosh" not a hint of why the judges liked or disliked the images. I had thought they were all going to be judged critically. one's efforts dont have to be rewarded in a contest, but no explanation of how the "winners" were chosen does little to further one's motivation. Once shay posted responses about the selection process then it all came together for me and im quite satisfied and I know what I need to do ( and whether or not anybody wants to agree with me ) a photographer "needs to understand" his clients ( in this case - the judges ). Doesn't Shay spend time getting to know his clients before a big shoot? Im sure it isnt just to work out the logistics of a shoot. After all has been said, for me at least - i think i am going to take Shay's advice to heart and look into each judges work and learn something about them too.


    ya know, i dont think anybody suggested the judging was unfair. i think what might have thrown some of us off was just initally seeing a list of winners without some sense of how the judging process works. and maybe pressure on the judges to get out the results produced this "quirky" reaction. But it seems clear to me now and i for one am ready to continue...



    troy
  • SwartzySwartzy Right Brained Scientist Posts: 3,293Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    Only one thing to add....
    Trust your own eye. What I saw as a great photo was replaced by one that was interesting based on other's feedback. I had 10 others to choose from and should have gone with what I thought was reflecting the theme and photographic excellence. I'm certain this has happened to all who've entered contests in the past at one time or another. Trust your talent....that's what makes you, YOU. Nobody can do it like you. (reminding myself daily now rolleyes1.gif)

    This first round has certainly taught me a few things. I applaud everyone who took the time to shoot and enter. Shall we kick it up a notch for round 2? Be you.

    P.S. I'm kind of liking the idea Shay provided of a monkey picking his butt..hmmmm :D
    Swartzy:
    NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
    Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
    www.daveswartz.com
    Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
  • DRabbitDRabbit Artsy-Fartsy Type Posts: 181Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    Swartzy wrote:
    P.S. I'm kind of liking the idea Shay provided of a monkey picking his butt..hmmmm :D

    Stately or humble? lol3.gif
    Amy :D
    Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.

    The Dang Gallery on DangRabbit - Follow me on Twitter or on Facebook
    Leica M8: Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon and 50mm f/2 Planar; Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5, 50mm f/1.5 Nokton and 75mm f/2.5 Heliar
    Olympus E-P1: Zuiko 14-42 and 25mm f/2.8 Pancake; Panasonic 45-200mm and 20mm f/1.7; and M-to-m4/3 adaptor
    Olympus e620: Zuiko 14-54 f/2.8-3.5
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    Swartzy wrote:
    P.S. I'm kind of liking the idea Shay provided of a monkey picking his butt..hmmmm :D

    I fear my comment may haunt me the rest of my days hehehe
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
  • douglasdouglas ShOoT tO tHrIlL Posts: 696Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    Making the top 10 is great and gives me a feeling of accomplishment. But if I enter a photo that I think can compete, then in my mindset ive already "won" before the judging even starts. Sometimes Ill enter even though I dont feel my end result can compete, but even then I know what I dont like about my photo, which is just as, if not more important than knowing what I like about my photo. The challenges are great experiance, here there are no losers. Keep shooting!
    Best regards,
    douglas
  • VisualXpressionsVisualXpressions Major grins Posts: 860Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    It simply doesn't matter
    But when it's a contest, I think it helps to know that each LPS will be judged similarly with similar criteria so that I can make the best choice for the subject.

    Anyway.... :D I'm not trying to be a pain, I just want to understand HOW the photos are judged!

    mwink.gif

    I served in the U.S. Navy for 20 years which I believe has made my skin pretty thick, for the last 6 years I changed careers in the Navy and became a Photographer/Photo Journalist… Every year the Military has a competition called MILPHOG (Military Photographer of the year) This competition, like most things Military, has a multitude of rules and guidelines as well as very strict and structured judging criteria (Judges for the competition are renowned editors and Photo Journalist for major media outlets) All of this structure didn’t make the competition any different than this one, people still had their feeling hurt and there was always accusations from outsiders and competitors that it was rigged or this other photo over here was better than the one chosen as the winner… My point is this… first and foremost I shoot for myself and secondly I shoot for the challenge and competition… If I win I am well pleased if I loose I accept the judge’s decision and move on to the next challenge…

    In a competition there has to be judges, winners and losers… Judges will base their decisions on a subjective basis, arising out of or identified by means of that persons perception, states and processes, as well as an objective basis, expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations. A judge will be subjective as well as objective no matter what the criteria may be… consequently it is incumbent upon us as contestants to create the most pleasing and technically correct image that meets the challenge criteria… and let our work stand on it’s own… Go with your gut… and shoot for yourself not the judge…

    Winstonthumb.gif
  • urbanariesurbanaries hoosier grins Posts: 2,690Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    I didn't enter #1 so I have no emotional tie to the results whatsoever. I'm working on an entry for #2 but feel the frustration expressed by some in this thread and others.

    There are folks "taking the high road" eg I'm shooting the challenges for me, for the process, for sh%^ts and giggles, for creative expansion, etc etc. That's all well and good, and makes for warm fuzzies. I like warm fuzzies.

    However, the authors/promoters of this particular contest aren't dangling warm fuzzies to motivate participation...they're dangling 25K. They teased us with a "think bigger than the solar system" blah blah, but then didn't set forth clear criteria on which the solar system prize would be judged. It's no surprise that approach is going to breed frustration.

    The overarching critique mantra in online forums (including dgrin) seems to be technique is king. Photography as a science rather than art. Micromanage someone's post processing rather than communicate how their image made you feel. (To each their own.) But if dgrin wants to facilitate a paradigm shift, then the judging methodology should reflect that upfront, however loosely. Knowing Shay's personal philosophy of content over technique is helpful, and reassuring to some....but Shay is only 1/6th of the judging panel.

    Soapbox aside, some clear criteria is missing here, as photogmomma said eloquently, and truth could have said more respectfully.
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  • TentacionTentacion Click On ! Posts: 940Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    urbanaries wrote:
    There are folks "taking the high road" eg I'm shooting the challenges for me, for the process, for sh%^ts and giggles, for creative expansion, etc etc. That's all well and good, and makes for warm fuzzies. I like warm fuzzies.

    However, the authors/promoters of this particular contest aren't dangling warm fuzzies to motivate participation...they're dangling 25K. They teased us with a "think bigger than the solar system" blah blah, but then didn't set forth clear criteria on which the solar system prize would be judged. It's no surprise that approach is going to breed frustration.

    The overarching critique mantra in online forums (including dgrin) seems to be technique is king. Photography as a science rather than art. Micromanage someone's post processing rather than communicate how their image made you feel. (To each their own.) But if dgrin wants to facilitate a paradigm shift, then the judging methodology should reflect that upfront, however loosely. Knowing Shay's personal philosophy of content over technique is helpful, and reassuring to some....but Shay is only 1/6th of the judging panel.

    Soapbox aside, some clear criteria is missing here, as photogmomma said eloquently, and truth could have said more respectfully.

    Very well said Urbanaries, I think you summed up what many were trying to express!

    This is not a challenge...this is a COMPETITION for 25K in prizes, and I for one, although I have a Major Love of Art, blah blah blah (being honest here, I love Warm Fuzzies too), I want to WIN, and doesn't everyone that enters want to QUALIFY (Come on don't lie, tell the truth, don't be martyrs)!!

    I need to know what is some of the criteria that is expected and to some extent YOU need to how the judges will be judging..Good Looks, Personality, Runway walk, blah blah blah...:D , so that I can Enlist that criteria/knowledge into putting forth MY BEST interpretation of what I think could make placement, and still be satisfied with my work for the particular theme/round, etc., although either way, it comes down in most cases what you perceive others will see when they view your work.

    Never good to go into war without some knowledge of the "enemy" in this case the enemy would be your competitors, and the judges, YOU are a one man army and need to be armed...(just my philosphy, no offense)

    "Know the Rules of Photography first, so that you can break them Artistically"

    You're only as good as your next photo....
    One day, I started writing, not knowing that I had chained myself for life to a noble but merciless master. When God hands you a gift, he also hands you a whip; and the whip is intended solely for self-flagellation...I'm here alone in my dark madness, all by myself with my deck of cards --- and, of course, the whip God gave me." Truman Capote
  • claudermilkclaudermilk Major grins Posts: 2,756Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    ...so, how do your quantify a subjective process? I feel some are thinking way too hard on this & looking for a "if you do this you get 10 points, if you do that you get 10 points, but if you do the other you lose 5 points." Shay's posts have pretty well said this isn't going to happen. What I get from Shay's posts is that the judges are simply being instructed to vote on which images move them within the parameters of the themes presented to us. That's it.

    Of the 10 sleected photos, there are several I really like, a couple that do fit the theme that simply don't move me, and one that I simply don't get how it fits the theme. But that's my own subjective judgement.

    So, for it it keeps going back to what Angelo and Winston have said a few times already: shoot for yourself & what moves you. Get that passion into the image & you should stand a better chance of making the cut than a cold, clinical analysis of the chosen theme. But then I could be all wet. ne_nau.gif
  • Shay StephensShay Stephens Artist in Residence Posts: 3,165Registered Users Major grins
    edited March 21, 2007
    urbanaries wrote:
    Soapbox aside, some clear criteria is missing here, as photogmomma said eloquently, and truth could have said more respectfully.
    You are frustrated because there is no clear criteria on what it takes to win. That is good. I don't want there to be a clear criteria to win. I am trying to inject novelty, surprise, and the unexpected into the contest. Keeping you a little off balance will hopefully cause you to reach beyond yourself to grab on to something new to steady yourself.

    You think you may want "x+y=z and I will win", but do you know how boring that is in reality? Knowing ahead of time what will win and how? No, we are going to take a different road than that.

    And secondarily, I am also trying to make this contest reflect in a way the business world of photography. I want this experience to count for something more at the end of the day, so a participant, after a year of "playing" stands a better chance of making it if they decide to go pro. They will have learned a few valuable things along the way that may give them a head start.
    Creator of Dgrin's "Last Photographer Standing" contest
    "Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
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