Readers of the October issue of Outdoor Photographer will enjoy reading Off the Beaten Path. It's an article about Marc's career, his new book and what drives him.
Worth a read
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Readers of the October issue of Outdoor Photographer will enjoy reading Off the Beaten Path. It's an article about Marc's career, his new book and what drives him.
Readers of the October issue of Outdoor Photographer will enjoy reading Off the Beaten Path. It's an article about Marc's career, his new book and what drives him.
When my mailman finishes reading the October issue, he'll deliver it to me soon, I hope. :lurk
EDIT: I got it the next day. Was a good read.
My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
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Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited September 28, 2011
I am off to Africa on our safari workshop, Ye Haaaa!
Many folks have expressed their concern in regards to surviving the wildlife while taking photos. However, I am more concerned with surviving the wild company..........
Andy is easy to deal with. You just tell him how great he is every half an hour and feed him seven times a day.
Also you may want to bribe the locals so that they ask him for his autograph. He loves that
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited October 31, 2011
Some of you might remember my friend Jack Baldelli who guided us on our Catalina Island workshop. Jack also works down at McMurdo and his friends helped with the BBC special Frozen Planet. He sent this link which shows some stills of the setups they used.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited November 30, 2011
Back to LR!
While enjoying a Sunday walk with my two sons and father-in-law, we were discussing his last months on the job. Dr. Hein, or Bill as I know him, has been an anesthesiologist in town here for over 30 years. During that time he wrote all notes down on paper which were then stored in patient folders in a filling cabinet somewhere in the hospitals. Just recently, last 6 months, the hospital has switched to a "DATABASE"! As he began explaining to me all the issues with it, I know his blood pressure went sky high. His largest gripe was all the time it took to click all the "pulldowns" to enter the data.
Again regarding data entry!
While on safari in Africa recently, I spoke briefly about how to work with LR while on "safari" or for that matter any photoshoot with a laptop. Of the 10 folks there, at least 5 different methods came up in the discussion.
I am not yet sure of how best to "IDIOT PROOF" LR, as it goes into a more philosophical issue about human thought and attention. I stress several points in what I teach about LR, which are: locations for images and catalog files - who can open a catalog file and how many catalogs to create - how when and where to import images and enter metadata.
Personally I really enjoy LR and believe the issues is simply understanding computing, but I am wondering?
I am interested in hearing from some of you!
What issues have you had with LR?
What do you like about LR?
What don't you like about LR?
I DO NOT work for Adobe. I DO NOT wish to create a similar product.
I am only hoping to get to the most efficient way of sharing this rather complex and confusing issue so that I can get on with teaching the real important stuff.
There is no real data management solution that goes with LR (or PS for that matter). I think this is 80% of my gripe.
And while it's easy to use for the everyday user (I mean the quick edit sorts), there are somethings that are just a nuisance to find because they're buried in a non obvious place--the same things are true of PS too so maybe it's more familiarity on my part.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
There is no real data management solution that goes with LR (or PS for that matter). I think this is 80% of my gripe.
I believe this is a fault of Adobe. Even though the evangelists have good videos on the subject it requires a very inquisitive mind to seek them all out and then watch them all, and then have the experience to determine what works best for YOU!
This is why I want any feedback on what YOU want LR to do. If you don't know, then let me know what specifics are frustrating you,,,,, or even why in general you are frustrated.
For example, you say "real data management solution". IYO, what do you consider the 5 or so most important aspects of data management?
Once, I can determine the most efficient method to promote, I will then work on a simple way to recommend backing it all up
I love lightroom. I couldn't successfully shoot the events I do without it. I don't think there is really a way to idiot proof it as each user has a different need which can lend itself to their own workflow. It was a struggle when I first used it way back when, but after I understood it, zoom zoom gimmie room!
I think one of the main problems is that most folks have is thinking that they should cram every photo into a catalog like it is a master database. I think that is where the confusion begins. That might be fine if you only have a few thousand total pics, but after 20,000+ the catalog starts slowing down a bit and you could risk corruption. I still remember version 1.0 and shudder to think all my pics in one database regardless of how stable it is supposed to be.
I use a new catalog for everything I do. I store those in a hiarchy of folders that makes sense to me. For example. M:/lightroomCat/clubRacing/2011Runoffs.lrcat. I have another drive I store the photos on with a similar folder structure. When importing I select Add to Catalog, using my standard develop settings as well as the stock metadata I use for everything. (i.e. creator, copyright, location etc.)
Once I have everything imported I go to All Pictures and select all. I then apply my stock keywords for the event.
Inside the catalog, I break down all the pics to each Race or run group using collections. So for example, I not only have Thursday Quals - GT1 as a collection, but there would be a Race 10 - GT1. Misc pics I put into catagories like Grid, Corner workers and Scenic. This way I can easily find and work on those pics, then when I export them, put them to a directory under the event as a new folder with the same name as the catalog. Before I start working on them in develop, I select all, add a select flag as well as add the rest of the tags needed for that group/collection.
When tweaking in dev mode, any pic I don't want I un-flag and also have the settings on only show flagged photos. Really bad ones, I mark for deletion. This way only the pics I want stay around for further inspection as well when I finally export as described above. I don't go into horrible detail in tweaking each pic as I revisit any photo that sells in greater detail in my proof delay and replace. Quite a bit of the time, I copy dev setting to the next however many have the same exposure and shot type/location. This gets me in the ballpark quickly as I do have a deadline to upload all my photos not only to my editor, but finally to my website.
This works for me as I usually have anywhere from 8000 - 12,000 photos over a 4 - 5 day event depending on how many cars are competing as in this example the SCCA Runoffs. A pro race, I might only have a 3000 - 5000 for practice, quals and actual race since the race weekend is much shorter.
As far as likes... I like it as it is a slick interface that I feel everything is pretty much right there in front of you. Love the compare functions like before and after tweaks or picking which is the best of a selected range of pics. I also love the search text filter for finding photos that sold for an event. LOVE LOVE LOVE Catalogs as shown above. I also use the color tags for tagging certain drivers, or car makes for other catalogs when the need arises. For example if tracking down a driver for an ad for a tire company, competitors that use a certain tire, or some other wacky project that comes my way. This way I can filter by color and create the extra needed catalog.
The basics of data management used to be located on the right side--the ability to sort stuff by several different fixed criteria. Most of the time, that works great. But there are times you might want to make your own sort criteria. Ideally, I'd like to have the ability to archive stuff to another place but still have the important stuff in the database (along with the archive location). The catalog stuff works OK for this but to me, seems fragile in design--I'd like to be wrong but I've been burned by similar mechanisms in the past.
I think one of the keys is to create an organizational structure that works and always use it. I'd like it if there were a language to define it and the ability to comeback later and extend that definition (sort of like JWW's work flow but automated).
As far as photo storage. I'd almost like to see the originals stored in a file structure that's accessible by all applications rather than embedded in the application. That would make preserving originals easy as well as allowing you to run backup tools/archives that were not LR related.
Those are a few things I'd like to see.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
The basics of data management used to be located on the right side--the ability to sort stuff by several different fixed criteria. Most of the time, that works great. But there are times you might want to make your own sort criteria. Ideally, I'd like to have the ability to archive stuff to another place but still have the important stuff in the database (along with the archive location). The catalog stuff works OK for this but to me, seems fragile in design--I'd like to be wrong but I've been burned by similar mechanisms in the past.
Hmmm... well, you can have photos in more than one Category though it is a bit of a manual process, but you could build your own "sorts" that way by simply selecting them and create another one. A quicker way might be by searching the keywords themselves in the text search in the Library and then build your extra Categories. Also, there are now smart categories that are automated, but I haven't really played with those. I would have to play a bit with them to give any feedback.
..oh and in the Library Section all the selection from Last Import thru Catagories are located on the left side. I am pretty sure they always have been over there if that helps.
Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited November 30, 2011
Great input jww!
I know your correct in regards to different workflows, but I believe that could be faze 2 of a persons learning curve! The first steps are the hurdles I am actually referring too! But thanks for bringing that out.
I now have just under 200,000 files in one catalog and all is running just fine! Maybe there will come a day when things slow down, but really hope computers catch up by then or LR developers will improve speed of "ONE" catalog. The main reason for 1 catalog is that I can query everything I have ever taken at once. I understand this may not be necessary for some, but believe it is a significant forte of any database!
I believe I understand you correctly that you have a tree of folders with your catalogs, how many catalogs do you now have?
Ian,
The lrcat file is stored in one folder with the previews and back ups, and the pictures are stored in another, and totally accessible through the finder. This is HUGE as iPhoto and Aperture suck everything into a VOID, which is locked down and inaccessible.
I back up my originals through another program entirely.
Is this what your referring to?
I know your correct in regards to different workflows, but I believe that could be faze 2 of a persons learning curve! The first steps are the hurdles I am actually referring too! But thanks for bringing that out.
I now have just under 200,000 files in one catalog and all is running just fine! Maybe there will come a day when things slow down, but really hope computers catch up by then or LR developers will improve speed of "ONE" catalog. The main reason for 1 catalog is that I can query everything I have ever taken at once. I understand this may not be necessary for some, but believe it is a significant forte of any database!
I believe I understand you correctly that you have a tree of folders with your catalogs, how many catalogs do you now have?
Hmmm... well, glad to hear it finally has stabilized! Keep in mind I did go through the beta on to version 1.0 all the way to the current 3.5, where version 1.0 was using a wimpy database that crashed quite a bit over a certain number of pics. So I started like you having one database, but found that would just not happen. Other versions had issues converting etc.. but fair to say that was way in the past. I took on this approach out of staying above water and really works great for me. I just feel safer this way and really don't need to drill down through everything with what I mainly shoot. I can also move catalogs to other drives easier for archival purposes without the muss of dealing with one huge database.
I have several hundred total catalogs and have here on SmugMug more than 140,000 pics online. For me it is more a matter of what racing series, what year, what track or event, so I can start with the correct catalog quickly. Then I just plug in the pic number or zoom through the proper run groups to find what I need. My personal pics for fun, artwork, i.e pure photography, I tend to keep in fewer catalogs as those never get that large.
The lrcat file is stored in one folder with the previews and back ups, and the pictures are stored in another, and totally accessible through the finder. This is HUGE as iPhoto and Aperture suck everything into a VOID, which is locked down and inaccessible.
I back up my originals through another program entirely.
Is this what your referring to?
Pretty much. But I often hear people talk about multiple catalogs and for the life of me, I don't get it. I do think the separation of originals would be a great idea and I think there are ways to integrate some kind of real database and some tools to interact with it would be cool too.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
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Marc MuenchRegistered UsersPosts: 1,420Major grins
edited November 30, 2011
jww,
Great to hear all this about how you are making it work! You have an advanced knowledge of computers and were able to figure this stuff out. What I am finding is that the majority of beginner to advanced photographers are having a very difficult time understanding how things work in LR and the irony is that LR was created just for that person Most understand how to hook up the camera card and mash the import button, but fail to understand why images go to certain places and why the don't all show up within certain areas of LR.
It was Julieanne Kost who stated that since version 3, there is no limit to the number of images in any one catalog. That is the day I began using LR
Ian,
The database file or "lrcat" file can be opened by one person at a time. This is what keeps it simpler. If this were editable by multiple users simultaneously it would be even more complex. When I used Cumulus by Canto, a $$$$ program, there was a database to keep track of users and an admin and passwords and and and!
I believe the single user per catalog approach is a compromise but in the end simplifies things. However, this is the reason why I use only one catalog. If I had multiple catalogs, each time I needed to view images in another catalog the program needs to restart!
Basically, if you keep everything in one catalog, it is a database! Images are stored in the pictures directory and the catalog file is stored in another folder in the same directory. The two are connected via stored "paths" that are created upon import! If those paths are broken by moving something outside of LR then there's some problems. But if everything is done within LR all is good!
Comments
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Now all you photographers can go kill yourself with Mercury
I think we are quite fortunate now days
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Kristine
Hope the drive was nice too....
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Thank you Lauren, Amazing what is included in FCP Studio edition.
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Ceci
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
Worth a read
Thanks for the heads up!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Great article!
-
EDIT: I got it the next day. Was a good read.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Many folks have expressed their concern in regards to surviving the wildlife while taking photos. However, I am more concerned with surviving the wild company..........
wish me luck:D
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Safe travels to all on the workshop and have a great trip!
Also you may want to bribe the locals so that they ask him for his autograph. He loves that
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
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After an incredible trip filled with way to much to possibly describe in words and or pics, I have begun a fatal attempt here in journeys.
I think this image helps understand just how focused everyone was.
Chasing elephants crossing the dry lake in Amboseli.
and most guides dont let you get out of the vehicle!
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
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MW on Facebook
While enjoying a Sunday walk with my two sons and father-in-law, we were discussing his last months on the job. Dr. Hein, or Bill as I know him, has been an anesthesiologist in town here for over 30 years. During that time he wrote all notes down on paper which were then stored in patient folders in a filling cabinet somewhere in the hospitals. Just recently, last 6 months, the hospital has switched to a "DATABASE"! As he began explaining to me all the issues with it, I know his blood pressure went sky high. His largest gripe was all the time it took to click all the "pulldowns" to enter the data.
Again regarding data entry!
While on safari in Africa recently, I spoke briefly about how to work with LR while on "safari" or for that matter any photoshoot with a laptop. Of the 10 folks there, at least 5 different methods came up in the discussion.
I am not yet sure of how best to "IDIOT PROOF" LR, as it goes into a more philosophical issue about human thought and attention. I stress several points in what I teach about LR, which are: locations for images and catalog files - who can open a catalog file and how many catalogs to create - how when and where to import images and enter metadata.
Personally I really enjoy LR and believe the issues is simply understanding computing, but I am wondering?
I am interested in hearing from some of you!
What issues have you had with LR?
What do you like about LR?
What don't you like about LR?
I DO NOT work for Adobe. I DO NOT wish to create a similar product.
I am only hoping to get to the most efficient way of sharing this rather complex and confusing issue so that I can get on with teaching the real important stuff.
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
And while it's easy to use for the everyday user (I mean the quick edit sorts), there are somethings that are just a nuisance to find because they're buried in a non obvious place--the same things are true of PS too so maybe it's more familiarity on my part.
I believe this is a fault of Adobe. Even though the evangelists have good videos on the subject it requires a very inquisitive mind to seek them all out and then watch them all, and then have the experience to determine what works best for YOU!
This is why I want any feedback on what YOU want LR to do. If you don't know, then let me know what specifics are frustrating you,,,,, or even why in general you are frustrated.
For example, you say "real data management solution". IYO, what do you consider the 5 or so most important aspects of data management?
Once, I can determine the most efficient method to promote, I will then work on a simple way to recommend backing it all up
But first things first.
Thanks for your comment Ian.
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
I think one of the main problems is that most folks have is thinking that they should cram every photo into a catalog like it is a master database. I think that is where the confusion begins. That might be fine if you only have a few thousand total pics, but after 20,000+ the catalog starts slowing down a bit and you could risk corruption. I still remember version 1.0 and shudder to think all my pics in one database regardless of how stable it is supposed to be.
I use a new catalog for everything I do. I store those in a hiarchy of folders that makes sense to me. For example. M:/lightroomCat/clubRacing/2011Runoffs.lrcat. I have another drive I store the photos on with a similar folder structure. When importing I select Add to Catalog, using my standard develop settings as well as the stock metadata I use for everything. (i.e. creator, copyright, location etc.)
Once I have everything imported I go to All Pictures and select all. I then apply my stock keywords for the event.
Inside the catalog, I break down all the pics to each Race or run group using collections. So for example, I not only have Thursday Quals - GT1 as a collection, but there would be a Race 10 - GT1. Misc pics I put into catagories like Grid, Corner workers and Scenic. This way I can easily find and work on those pics, then when I export them, put them to a directory under the event as a new folder with the same name as the catalog. Before I start working on them in develop, I select all, add a select flag as well as add the rest of the tags needed for that group/collection.
When tweaking in dev mode, any pic I don't want I un-flag and also have the settings on only show flagged photos. Really bad ones, I mark for deletion. This way only the pics I want stay around for further inspection as well when I finally export as described above. I don't go into horrible detail in tweaking each pic as I revisit any photo that sells in greater detail in my proof delay and replace. Quite a bit of the time, I copy dev setting to the next however many have the same exposure and shot type/location. This gets me in the ballpark quickly as I do have a deadline to upload all my photos not only to my editor, but finally to my website.
This works for me as I usually have anywhere from 8000 - 12,000 photos over a 4 - 5 day event depending on how many cars are competing as in this example the SCCA Runoffs. A pro race, I might only have a 3000 - 5000 for practice, quals and actual race since the race weekend is much shorter.
As far as likes... I like it as it is a slick interface that I feel everything is pretty much right there in front of you. Love the compare functions like before and after tweaks or picking which is the best of a selected range of pics. I also love the search text filter for finding photos that sold for an event. LOVE LOVE LOVE Catalogs as shown above. I also use the color tags for tagging certain drivers, or car makes for other catalogs when the need arises. For example if tracking down a driver for an ad for a tire company, competitors that use a certain tire, or some other wacky project that comes my way. This way I can filter by color and create the extra needed catalog.
Any questions.. feel free and ask!
I think one of the keys is to create an organizational structure that works and always use it. I'd like it if there were a language to define it and the ability to comeback later and extend that definition (sort of like JWW's work flow but automated).
As far as photo storage. I'd almost like to see the originals stored in a file structure that's accessible by all applications rather than embedded in the application. That would make preserving originals easy as well as allowing you to run backup tools/archives that were not LR related.
Those are a few things I'd like to see.
Hmmm... well, you can have photos in more than one Category though it is a bit of a manual process, but you could build your own "sorts" that way by simply selecting them and create another one. A quicker way might be by searching the keywords themselves in the text search in the Library and then build your extra Categories. Also, there are now smart categories that are automated, but I haven't really played with those. I would have to play a bit with them to give any feedback.
..oh and in the Library Section all the selection from Last Import thru Catagories are located on the left side. I am pretty sure they always have been over there if that helps.
I know your correct in regards to different workflows, but I believe that could be faze 2 of a persons learning curve! The first steps are the hurdles I am actually referring too! But thanks for bringing that out.
I now have just under 200,000 files in one catalog and all is running just fine! Maybe there will come a day when things slow down, but really hope computers catch up by then or LR developers will improve speed of "ONE" catalog. The main reason for 1 catalog is that I can query everything I have ever taken at once. I understand this may not be necessary for some, but believe it is a significant forte of any database!
I believe I understand you correctly that you have a tree of folders with your catalogs, how many catalogs do you now have?
Ian,
The lrcat file is stored in one folder with the previews and back ups, and the pictures are stored in another, and totally accessible through the finder. This is HUGE as iPhoto and Aperture suck everything into a VOID, which is locked down and inaccessible.
I back up my originals through another program entirely.
Is this what your referring to?
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook
Hmmm... well, glad to hear it finally has stabilized! Keep in mind I did go through the beta on to version 1.0 all the way to the current 3.5, where version 1.0 was using a wimpy database that crashed quite a bit over a certain number of pics. So I started like you having one database, but found that would just not happen. Other versions had issues converting etc.. but fair to say that was way in the past. I took on this approach out of staying above water and really works great for me. I just feel safer this way and really don't need to drill down through everything with what I mainly shoot. I can also move catalogs to other drives easier for archival purposes without the muss of dealing with one huge database.
I have several hundred total catalogs and have here on SmugMug more than 140,000 pics online. For me it is more a matter of what racing series, what year, what track or event, so I can start with the correct catalog quickly. Then I just plug in the pic number or zoom through the proper run groups to find what I need. My personal pics for fun, artwork, i.e pure photography, I tend to keep in fewer catalogs as those never get that large.
Pretty much. But I often hear people talk about multiple catalogs and for the life of me, I don't get it. I do think the separation of originals would be a great idea and I think there are ways to integrate some kind of real database and some tools to interact with it would be cool too.
Great to hear all this about how you are making it work! You have an advanced knowledge of computers and were able to figure this stuff out. What I am finding is that the majority of beginner to advanced photographers are having a very difficult time understanding how things work in LR and the irony is that LR was created just for that person
It was Julieanne Kost who stated that since version 3, there is no limit to the number of images in any one catalog. That is the day I began using LR
Ian,
The database file or "lrcat" file can be opened by one person at a time. This is what keeps it simpler. If this were editable by multiple users simultaneously it would be even more complex. When I used Cumulus by Canto, a $$$$ program, there was a database to keep track of users and an admin and passwords and and and!
I believe the single user per catalog approach is a compromise but in the end simplifies things. However, this is the reason why I use only one catalog. If I had multiple catalogs, each time I needed to view images in another catalog the program needs to restart!
Basically, if you keep everything in one catalog, it is a database! Images are stored in the pictures directory and the catalog file is stored in another folder in the same directory. The two are connected via stored "paths" that are created upon import! If those paths are broken by moving something outside of LR then there's some problems. But if everything is done within LR all is good!
Muench Workshops
MW on Facebook