Canadian shooters?

Snowgirl

Just wondering if any Canadian shooters out there are experiencing declining sales due to the significant drop in the Canadian dollar vs. the American?

If so, can anyone recommend a comparable Canadian set up?:dunno

xris

Snowgirl wrote:

Just wondering if any Canadian shooters out there are experiencing declining sales due to the significant drop in the Canadian dollar vs. the American?

If so, can anyone recommend a comparable Canadian set up?

Do you mean 'print' sales? Sure, the dollar certainly matters. When added to the cross-border order hassles and slow, expensive, shipping issues there's probably no more efficient way to discourage sales...

I just do all my printing in Canada now.

Snowgirl

xris wrote:

Do you mean 'print' sales? Sure, the dollar certainly matters. When added to the cross-border order hassles and slow, expensive, shipping issues there's probably no more efficient way to discourage sales...

I just do all my printing in Canada now.

So basically SmugMug is just your on-line gallery?

Montec

Snowgirl wrote:

So basically SmugMug is just your on-line gallery?

That is the way I have been doing it...until SM hooks up with a Canadian printer (not going to happen).

I don't worry so much about the value of the $ but the problems at the border and being charged in US dollars is just too much trouble to bother with.

Snowgirl

Montec wrote:

That is the way I have been doing it...until SM hooks up with a Canadian printer (not going to happen).

I don't worry so much about the value of the $ but the problems at the border and being charged in US dollars is just too much trouble to bother with.

I hear you about the US $. What are the border problems? I've only had 2 sales (so far) through SmugMug and no one has complained - yet - but it was during the summer when the dollars were close.

It does seem slow though. I ordered prints for myself (to try it out) 2 weeks ago and haven't seen them yet. Is that what you mean, delays?

Snowgirl

Montec wrote:

That is the way I have been doing it...until SM hooks up with a Canadian printer (not going to happen).

I don't worry so much about the value of the $ but the problems at the border and being charged in US dollars is just too much trouble to bother with.

I went and looked at your gallery. I didn't see any info. on how to purchase photos? How do you handle it? The Event albums seemed to allow purchase at SmugMug's prices - but that wouldn't allow any profit for you, would it? And it means that your clients can see the wholesale costs.

Montec

Snowgirl wrote:

I went and looked at your gallery. I didn't see any info. on how to purchase photos? How do you handle it? The Event albums seemed to allow purchase at SmugMug's prices - but that wouldn't allow any profit for you, would it? And it means that your clients can see the wholesale costs.

Yes, the delivery time can be two weeks on average and longer. Not SM's fault of course but just our Customs system that is so inconsistent. I have had customers that get all the way to the check out in the cart when they see that they are buying from the US in US funds they cancel. I would like to see a Canadian printer and have customers charged in Canadian funds, even if it was more expensive.

As far as the events you looked at on the site are mainly from community events that I let people have the images at SM prices. I don't let customers buy images in the private galleries and many of them are hidden and I just provide links to them for the customer to view.

Snowgirl

Montec wrote:

Yes, the delivery time can be two weeks on average and longer. Not SM's fault of course but just our Customs system that is so inconsistent. I have had customers that get all the way to the check out in the cart when they see that they are buying from the US in US funds they cancel. I would like to see a Canadian printer and have customers charged in Canadian funds, even if it was more expensive.

As far as the events you looked at on the site are mainly from community events that I let people have the images at SM prices. I don't let customers buy images in the private galleries and many of them are hidden and I just provide links to them for the customer to view.

I agree. I'd love to see a Canadian printer / Canadian funds pricing. I'm re-thinking my whole business model as a result of all of this.

Ann McRae

So, I've had a pro account since 2004, and rarely sell via smugmug. People resist the shipping (would rather have me mail or drive over to pick them up) and the possible border problems. Some are still wary of using a cc on line.

For sports pics, where I have little mark up, I use Costco, with no complaints from clients.

Last time I had lots of orders at once, I used smug and ordered lustre. Lovely prints, but the order took 2 weeks to cross the border.

FWIW, the strong Cdn $ didn't help with on line orders at all.

From my chair, it is easier for me to place the order via smug, since the photos are already there. But the exchange rate will likely prevent me from doing so again.

(I am still lost on the economics of the exchange rate - the cdn economy is more secure and alive than the US, so I don't get it )
ann

Montec

Ann McRae wrote:

I am still lost on the economics of the exchange rate - the cdn economy is more secure and alive than the US, so I don't get it
ann

It looks to me that the CDN$ is directly linked to oil prices. The price of oil has plummeted and so has the Loonie. When oil was sky high so was the Loonie.

Snowgirl

Ann McRae wrote:

So, I've had a pro account since 2004, and rarely sell via smugmug. People resist the shipping (would rather have me mail or drive over to pick them up) and the possible border problems. Some are still wary of using a cc on line.

For sports pics, where I have little mark up, I use Costco, with no complaints from clients.

Last time I had lots of orders at once, I used smug and ordered lustre. Lovely prints, but the order took 2 weeks to cross the border.

FWIW, the strong Cdn $ didn't help with on line orders at all.

From my chair, it is easier for me to place the order via smug, since the photos are already there. But the exchange rate will likely prevent me from doing so again.

(I am still lost on the economics of the exchange rate - the cdn economy is more secure and alive than the US, so I don't get it )
ann

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense and I'm thinking I may go the same route. If I EVER receive the prints from the family portraits I did (so I can actually see the quality) then I'll decide if it's worth the hassle and expense of a pro. account or if I'll switch back to a power user for display only.

I'd really like to have an on-line ordering / paying system - but wouldn't mind handling getting the printing done and delivered locally. Hmm - more things to consider in re-vamping the whole business model.

Ann McRae

Snowgirl wrote:

If I EVER receive the prints from the family portraits I did (so I can actually see the quality) then I'll decide if it's worth the hassle and expense of a pro. account or if I'll switch back to a power user for display only.

If the prints take longer than two weeks, contact smugmug - they have fantastic customer support.

Can you implement all the privacy controls with power account? That would be something worth paying for.

ann

Montec

You will not be unhappy with SM's print quality and customer service is great. It is just unfortunate they are a US company and not Canadian :cry.

xris

Montec wrote:

You will not be unhappy with SM's print quality and customer service is great. It is just unfortunate they are a US company and not Canadian :cry.

That's the pity. It seems SM really is on to a winning formula. But becoming a truly international pro service appears to be a bit of a leap for them. I suppose carrying on business in international currencies is not for the weak of heart, but plenty of lesser sites are doing it in aces these days. That said, if SM really wants to walk-the-walk and talk-the-talk of a mainstream Web-based pro-photo service (and I'm not convinced this is the case) they simply must provided, at the very least, a lab this side of the 49th, another somewhere in the EC and the means to bill in at least a few additional local currencies. An international footprint with local provisioning...

We can only hope...

lisap

xris wrote:

That's the pity. It seems SM really is on to a winning formula. But becoming a truly international pro service appears to be a bit of a leap for them. I suppose carrying on business in international currencies is not for the weak of heart, but plenty of lesser sites are doing it in aces these days. That said, if SM really wants to walk-the-walk and talk-the-talk of a mainstream Web-based pro-photo service (and I'm not convinced this is the case) they simply must provided, at the very least, a lab this side of the 49th, another somewhere in the EC and the means to bill in at least a few additional local currencies. An international footprint with local provisioning...

We can only hope...

+1 to that!! I would be a VERY happy camper if they could bill in Canadian $$. *sigh*

-- Lisa P.

Ann McRae

xris wrote:

they simply must provided, at the very least, a lab this side of the 49th, another somewhere in the EC and the means to bill in at least a few additional local currencies. An international footprint with local provisioning...

We can only hope...

Well, I am not convinced that it would be necessaary to have a cdn lab. I think that print quality, and the behind the scenes work that goes into the guarantee, are way more important. I wish there were a way to ease the border crossing issue. And I really believe that having a checkout that allows for different currencies wouls be the only difference necessary.


ann

Snowgirl

Ann McRae wrote:

Well, I am not convinced that it would be necessaary to have a cdn lab. I think that print quality, and the behind the scenes work that goes into the guarantee, are way more important. I wish there were a way to ease the border crossing issue. And I really believe that having a checkout that allows for different currencies wouls be the only difference necessary.


ann

There must be labs in Canada that will deliver good quality, guarantees and quality control. I know there are small labs that do excellent work - including one about 70km from where I am - it's just costly to drive in and out to pick them up. But, unless SM can handle Cdn. currency and solve the border issue (what exactly IS the border issue?) that's the route I'll have to go.

I've imported all kinds of stuff with no problems - e.g. bought camera gear from B&H etc. - so what's the hangup with prints?

STILL waiting!

digismile

Snowgirl wrote:

I've imported all kinds of stuff with no problems - e.g. bought camera gear from B&H etc. - so what's the hangup with prints?

STILL waiting!

I'm betting that when you bought something from B&H, you didn't pay $5 for shipping. I bought my 70-200 f2.8 IS from B&H and received it in about a week. The cost of shipping was relatively small compared to the price of the lens, but I would never pay the same for a few prints.

I have placed only a small number of print orders via smugmug and the service and quality has been excellent. But my quickest delivery time (to Edmonton) was 4 weeks. The longest 6. The issue is not with smugmug or the lab. It is somewhere with USPS and Canada Post. I think the longest it took Smugmug to process an order for me was 2 days for some luggage tags. All prints were pretty much 1 day. But then the orders disappear into the postal abyss.

I don't think we should blame all service level woes on 9-11, but I'm sure that anything crossing borders now gets a lot more scrutiny than it used to.

Snowgirl

digismile wrote:

I'm betting that when you bought something from B&H, you didn't pay $5 for shipping. I bought my 70-200 f2.8 IS from B&H and received it in about a week. The cost of shipping was relatively small compared to the price of the lens, but I would never pay the same for a few prints.

I have placed only a small number of print orders via smugmug and the service and quality has been excellent. But my quickest delivery time (to Edmonton) was 4 weeks. The longest 6. The issue is not with smugmug or the lab. It is somewhere with USPS and Canada Post. I think the longest it took Smugmug to process an order for me was 2 days for some luggage tags. All prints were pretty much 1 day. But then the orders disappear into the postal abyss.

I don't think we should blame all service level woes on 9-11, but I'm sure that anything crossing borders now gets a lot more scrutiny than it used to.

Good point about the cost of shipping - and I certainly don't blame SmugMug. Everyone I've talked to has said the quality of the prints received (eventually) is excellent.

However - if one is trying to build a business and a part of that business is selling photos - customers expect very prompt service. 4-6 weeks for delivery is just not acceptable. As you said - it's a border - Canada Post issue but if SmugMug wants pros to sell photos through the site - they seriously need to look at international fulfillment sources. How long does it take to get photos sent off-continent? I shudder to think.

The customer that's waiting for these photos wants them for Xmas gifts - and if she likes what she sees, I'm sure she'll order more - but not if she has to wait 4-6 weeks to get them.

xris

No issue with print quality and customer service. SM is the vanguard for Web service and accessibility.

Problem is, when it comes to prints and novelty items, those advantages are pretty much moot anywhere but the continental U.S.:cry

With a lab in Canada, far quicker shipping could be had, at much lower cost AND in Canadian funds. :ivar

I'm in Toronto. We regularly receive a package from Victoria BC -- 4491 km (almost 2,800 miles) -- in about 3 days for only a few dollars. Expedited and next day services are available at a premium.

No border crossings.
No exchange rates.
No brokerage fees.
Tracking numbers are provided.
One point-of-contact with a shipper.

AND I can tell clients they are supporting local business.

Same scenario for Europe, I reckon... One lab in England could ship anywhere in the EC -- and that's no small market.

Snowgirl

My print order just arrived. It was just under 3 weeks which isn't too bad. Now, if we could just solve the Canadian dollar issue.

The quality of the prints is great, by the way.

lisap

xris wrote:

I just do all my printing in Canada now.

Where are you Canadian photographers doing your local printing at? Specifically those in Ontario. I really like the quality of product and service levels of SmugMug, but now that I'm starting to do some actual business, I'm finding that trying to price client galleries to suit the fluctuating dollar or to quote Canadian pricing and place the order through SmugMug myself is a bit more hassle than I'd like to have to deal with right now, not to mention confusing!

I've been thinking of trying Henry's since I am pleased with their overall service level on the retail sales side of things.

Convenience is important for me, as even though I do work at my day job in the GTA, I live North about an hour in a smaller community so getting to a store is sometimes not in the cards. (I'm really spending more time with online ordering and shipping since moving out of the big city..haha)

-- Lisa P.

Montec

A big problem for me has also been brokerage fees charged by some shipping companies. UPS has dinged me $35 brokerage fees too many times for me to count. And it is not consistent, oftentimes one package will have the fees and the next week a similar package has none...frustrating.

Certainly not SM fault but something us who live North of the 49th need to be aware of.

Congrats to Mr. Obama by the way!

Snowgirl

Montec wrote:

A big problem for me has also been brokerage fees charged by some shipping companies. UPS has dinged me $35 brokerage fees too many times for me to count. And it is not consistent, oftentimes one package will have the fees and the next week a similar package has none...frustrating.

Certainly not SM fault but something us who live North of the 49th need to be aware of.

Congrats to Mr. Obama by the way!

Ditto the congrats.

Yeah - shipping and brokerage fees are inconsistent (right - not smugmug's fault - but still a PITA). We definitely need a Canadian source.

I explored another website for photo marketing and,although they are Canadian, they use a lab in Texas and quote in American $ - the logic being that their business is international and US Currency is the standard. Is there no alternative other than the labour intensive local lab and do-it-yourself fulfillment? Ugh.

Ann McRae

Snowgirl wrote:

Ditto the congrats.

Yeah - shipping and brokerage fees are inconsistent (right - not smugmug's fault - but still a PITA). We definitely need a Canadian source.

I explored another website for photo marketing and,although they are Canadian, they use a lab in Texas and quote in American $ - the logic being that their business is international and US Currency is the standard. Is there no alternative other than the labour intensive local lab and do-it-yourself fulfillment? Ugh.

Well, I've never tried these guys, but they are a pro lab here in Edmonton that does on line ordering and of course shipping:
Technicare
I am registered as a pro with them as I buy all my folios etc from them. Gets me close to 50% discount on folios.

McBain, Don's Photo, etc all do on line ordering too.
ann

Congrats on the election as well! (and watch how markets react - things should settle now)

geospatial_junkie

I just use smugmug for galleries as well. Printing is done in Canada.

SMP_Homer

zoomphoto.ca
You guys ever heard of or tried www.zoomphoto.ca

Ann McRae

SMP_Homer wrote:

You guys ever heard of or tried www.zoomphoto.ca

Well, I went tot he site you posted, and it looks like a service for athletes. It is unclear to me how photographers benefit/use this site.

Snowgirl

Ann McRae wrote:

Well, I went tot he site you posted, and it looks like a service for athletes. It is unclear to me how photographers benefit/use this site.

Yep - I had a look too and all I could see was racing. Kind of a stock photo / athlete photo purchase site? I do like the fact that it's Canadian AND proudly shows prices in Canadian dollars.

I wish there was a Canadian equivalent to smugmug - so the ordering could be handled on-line and the fulfillment without me having to be involved beyond editing the images. Haven't found one yet, though, but still looking.

caroline

Snowgirl wrote:

. How long does it take to get photos sent off-continent? I shudder to think.

I'm in the UK and placed a couple of orders a while back to test the delivery time and was very pleased to receive my prints in around 12-14 days, certainly no more than 14 days. That is certainly acceptable to me. If I want quick/immediate service I can go elsewhere - I live in a rural area in the UK but there are plenty of options for fulfilling orders that don't necessitate a drive. Regarding quality and service it the same as with any I just test them out first.

Caroline

geospatial_junkie

It really shouldn't matter how long it takes as long as the product is worth the wait. Most brides would rather wait for something that will make their jaw drop as opposed to having something ok right away. It's our job to make them see the virtues of waiting for something great as opposed to settling for something good.