It is indeed the silver bullet unless you are missing the big picture
Let's take a look: google and yahoo together may be enough to surpass any reasonable userbase we are talking about.
Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID#Adoption
Quote from above: As of November 2008, there are over 500 million OpenIDs on the Internet and approximately 27,000 sites have integrated OpenID consumer support
You talk about a specific site like TechCrunch, but you should not ignore this: http://openiddirectory.com. Look at the list there and see how much simpler this has become. Suddenly from nowhere everyone is integrating so quickly
And finally, since you are so keen to jump upto the facebook bangwagon (which I have so far not found interesting enough to sign up for), here is something to look forward to: Facebook joins openID
In the end, it's your choice to implement it as a open standard and do it once, or to fiddle with it for vendor specific APIs (which is exactly what seems to be happening right now)
There may be 500 million OpenIDs, but most of those people wouldn't know what OpenID is, let alone that they have one. Considering OpenID is coming up on it's 5 year anniversary...i'd say 27,000 sites with integrated consumer support is pretty lame.
There may be 500 million OpenIDs, but most of those people wouldn't know what OpenID is, let alone that they have one. Considering OpenID is coming up on it's 5 year anniversary...i'd say 27,000 sites with integrated consumer support is pretty lame.
As compared to what?
As I said, you can argue and resist it. It's your project and your own call. I shared the adoption details with you. It has the sites listed. If you think they are all meaningless and smugmug's decision is better, so be it. I am thinking there must be a reason why facebook went ahead to join openID (that simply means 500 million + facebook)
As for people knowing if they had openID, it's more of a case of the right user interface. When I first encountered openID, I did not know about it. All I got was a blog where I could use my google account to leave comments. The UI was intuitive enough to make it a no brainer
Does it matter what it's compared to ? You are touting OpenID as the silver bullet, but the implementation rates don't seem to reflect that. I'm looking at http://openiddirectory.com and they have like 782 sites listed, hardly compelling. And I don't see any of the big boys with consumer support either... Google, Yahoo, Microsoft ?
One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)... sure it might make sense to tech savvy people but the average web user really doesn't have a clue. Hence, why Facebook is joining OpenID "with a commitment to better user experience".
Does it matter what it's compared to ? You are touting OpenID as the silver bullet, but the implementation rates don't seem to reflect that. I'm looking at http://openiddirectory.com and they have like 782 sites listed, hardly compelling. And I don't see any of the big boys with consumer support either... Google, Yahoo, Microsoft ?
One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)... sure it might make sense to tech savvy people but the average web user really doesn't have a clue. Hence, why Facebook is joining OpenID "with a commitment to better user experience".
And for the record, this isn't my project.
All of this is interesting, but the fact is that the Facebook integration that has been implemented does not work. Rather than back out the change, SM "hopes" it will be fixed in the next release. To be honest, I am happy with comments working just the way they were, and see no need to potentially impact (well in this case ACTUALLY impact) the performance of my site due to SM's insistence on using something that at this point is a hindrance and not a help.
I really hate that my page and images load much slower due to a Facebook integration. This needs to go away. I know it's big money for you guys, but damn.
Yes, it always does. Saying that something isn't well adopted has to be in context of something that you consider as well adopted. You wanted to know if openID can boast of anything compared to 175 million users that facebook gets in. If all you want is a user Id for comments, yahoo's 250 million users + google + myspace (and soon facebook, clickpass already support them) will make sure that almost everyone coming across is covered, if you want so.
One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)...
And the reason we are discussing all this is because of all the confusion that the new facebook button created. I can already see that it was intuitive enough for the users. A bad user experience can always be created, and improved upon - openID itself does not dictate a user interface limitation. It has been easy enough for me to go on blogger or technorati and leave comments; and I am sure once you fix your facebook implementation hopefully your UI will also be better - until something changes at facebook in a bad way. Good if facebook is going to come and improve user experinece, maybe they can, maybe they cannot. Stuff like clickpass have been trying to achieve the same and a coordinated effort will win in the end
I keep looking for that big money, dunno what your speaking about - there's $0 involved in the facebook connect - it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.
... it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.
...
This makes no sense at all.
You have me confused, are you saying no one can leave a comment
without using the FB button so anonymous can't comment? That's what
that statement indicates. I don't have a FB site so there are no links back
to my site from logged on FB users.
I have all kinds of comments, some anonymous, but the Captcha screens
them. This is all I need, I don't need the added overhead.
What exactly does FB do? If all it is to bypass the Captcha it's kind of
ridiculous, poor FB users can't follow the simple way it's done now.
I keep looking for that big money, dunno what your speaking about - there's $0 involved in the facebook connect - it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.
We'll make it fast again, pronto.
Make it completely optional too (side wide opt-out would be best IMHO).
This makes no sense at all.
You have me confused, are you saying no one can leave a comment
without using the FB button so anonymous can't comment? That's what
that statement indicates. I don't have a FB site so there are no links back
to my site from logged on FB users.
I have all kinds of comments, some anonymous, but the Captcha screens
them. This is all I need, I don't need the added overhead.
What exactly does FB do? If all it is to bypass the Captcha it's kind of
ridiculous, poor FB users can't follow the simple way it's done now.
First of all, from a legitimate commenter's point-of-view, Captchas suck.
Secondly, I'm not big fan of Facebook, but I can see how some of these kids might want to avoid having to constantly type captchas (and optionally include their e-mail and link) if they're just trying to comment on their friend's (and anybody's) SmugMug galleries. (Not that any "kids" use SmugMug.)
Finally this would appeal to SmugMuggers who *do* use Facebook, as it provides a quick way to click on the commenter and get to their Facebook profile.
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
It sure looks like its loading code for FB. And that large hex number looks like some kind of unique identifier... <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Beyond that it boils down to who controls my site. Just like the well beaten dead horse of an /iphone interface, it should be my choice what features get enabled and which remain disabled.
Heck, I can disable the users ability to run a slideshow with just a single line in the CSS.
Would you be pushing back on people requesting that if it didn't already exist?
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
You say there is no code loading, but the code is there.
As far as Facebook goes, there have been enough issues with their license agreement (not just the one over the last week) that honestly? I want nothing to do with the site. And I don't want a link from my site to Facebook. I've removed the button from my guestbook, but the code is still lurking in the background. Maybe that's not rational, but that's my take on it right now.
The argument that I could click on someone's name in my guestbook to see their Facebook info? I do not have a Facebook account, and I have no plans to start one. So that link does me no good.
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
Here's my question back to you, Andy: What if I don't mind if people leave anonymous comments? It is after all MY site with MY content, and if I am OK with MY visitors leaving anonymous comments, then why should it matter to SmugMug?
And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure if you look back at this thread, you'll see that there are things being loaded, even before visitors click the button.
It sure looks like its loading code for FB. And that large hex number looks like some kind of unique identifier...
we will fix it so the code only loads when the button is clicked to connect with facebook. there will be no fb code loaded for normal viewing of your page.
the question is what are your objections assuming no FB code is loaded in normal browsing situations.
and that unique identifier is our api key to facebook.
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
I think a lot of people just dont want to associate their site with a social networking site (or any other site for that matter) in any way. This is understandable, especially for Pros who have worked hard on coding their site to make it look as professional & unique as possible. Now their visitors have to see a big honking blue Facebook button on their comments page staring them in the face with no way to get rid of it. Not cool.
Also, like I said, Im a FB user & like it a lot. Have been since early 2006, back when it wasnt the cat's meow. But I also know that playing favorites with any site of this nature is probably not the best thing to do. I mean, its not like something wont take the place of Facebook in the near future. It always happens & these things lose their cool kinda fast. Imagine if everytime that happened you guys had to implement the newest, hottest social networking site in the comments section. It would start to become ridiculous. A few years ago it would have been Friendster, then Myspace, then Facebook, & so on.
P.S. Im not saying OpenID is the answer either. But until there's a clear one-login-for-all winner (if there ever is), I personally wouldnt go down that road.
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
Yes, to clarify, we're FIXING this...it's going in this next release we hope See bigwebguy's post just above, please.
Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
I'm fine with it if there's no facebook code loading until a viewer asks to use Facebook Connect.
The site slowdown while loading a bunch of new facebook stuff and the new reliability dependency on several non-Smugmug domains just to view for every one of my galleries was my issue that triggered me to post this originally.
And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure if you look back at this thread, you'll see that there are things being loaded, even before visitors click the button.
Guys- it's not live yet, what we're changing. I've posted in this thread that we're doing some changes right now. Stay tuned, okay? Thanks for your patience
I'm fine with it if there's no facebook code loading until a viewer asks to use Facebook Connect.
The site slowdown while loading a bunch of new facebook stuff and the new reliability dependency on several non-Smugmug domains just to view for every one of my galleries was my issue that triggered me to post this originally.
Thx John - I think you'll be happy with the next release, it's in testing right now.
My biggest beef is it looks like you're being asked to sign up for Facebook if
the button is clicked. Very few if any of my visitors use Facebook, esp. my
family. And I know some will click on it just because it's there.
I don't need any unwanted advertising on my site.
Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.
Firefox 3.0.6 only works sometimes after a few refreshs. Works in IE6.
So we as photographers should want nothing to do with facebook considering their TOS situation - and yes I know...but, just the fact they even 'went there' should be enough to scare the %#*@ out of any self-respecting photogs (HELLO!!!).. (needed to rant - sorry!)
My main question is, as a fairly long time pro account holder (and hope to stay that way), if I don't enable (or offer) the ability to comment on any of my smugmug content do I need to worry about the situation being discussed here in this thread?
Yes, to clarify, we're FIXING this...it's going in this next release we hope See bigwebguy's post just above, please.
Excellent. I'd still like to see a full opt-out so the code doesn't even load when someone chooses to add a comment, but I guess this is the next best thing (in combination with the CSS to hide the button).
Now if you could just give me the option to close the /iphone hole and add coupons I'd be :ivar
My biggest beef is it looks like you're being asked to sign up for Facebook if
the button is clicked. Very few if any of my visitors use Facebook, esp. my
family. And I know some will click on it just because it's there.
I don't need any unwanted advertising on my site.
Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.
Firefox 3.0.6 only works sometimes after a few refreshs. Works in IE6.
Comments
There may be 500 million OpenIDs, but most of those people wouldn't know what OpenID is, let alone that they have one. Considering OpenID is coming up on it's 5 year anniversary...i'd say 27,000 sites with integrated consumer support is pretty lame.
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
As I said, you can argue and resist it. It's your project and your own call. I shared the adoption details with you. It has the sites listed. If you think they are all meaningless and smugmug's decision is better, so be it. I am thinking there must be a reason why facebook went ahead to join openID (that simply means 500 million + facebook)
As for people knowing if they had openID, it's more of a case of the right user interface. When I first encountered openID, I did not know about it. All I got was a blog where I could use my google account to leave comments. The UI was intuitive enough to make it a no brainer
http://photography.ashishpandey.com
smugmug ID: ashishpandey (but I prefer my domain URL above
Does it matter what it's compared to ? You are touting OpenID as the silver bullet, but the implementation rates don't seem to reflect that. I'm looking at http://openiddirectory.com and they have like 782 sites listed, hardly compelling. And I don't see any of the big boys with consumer support either... Google, Yahoo, Microsoft ?
One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)... sure it might make sense to tech savvy people but the average web user really doesn't have a clue. Hence, why Facebook is joining OpenID "with a commitment to better user experience".
And for the record, this isn't my project.
SmugMug API Developer
My Photos
All of this is interesting, but the fact is that the Facebook integration that has been implemented does not work. Rather than back out the change, SM "hopes" it will be fixed in the next release. To be honest, I am happy with comments working just the way they were, and see no need to potentially impact (well in this case ACTUALLY impact) the performance of my site due to SM's insistence on using something that at this point is a hindrance and not a help.
Don
My Galleries
My Photo Blog
And the reason we are discussing all this is because of all the confusion that the new facebook button created. I can already see that it was intuitive enough for the users. A bad user experience can always be created, and improved upon - openID itself does not dictate a user interface limitation. It has been easy enough for me to go on blogger or technorati and leave comments; and I am sure once you fix your facebook implementation hopefully your UI will also be better - until something changes at facebook in a bad way. Good if facebook is going to come and improve user experinece, maybe they can, maybe they cannot. Stuff like clickpass have been trying to achieve the same and a coordinated effort will win in the end
we are discussion smugmug's implementation. I don't know why setting this record straight was even needed
Reading back this discussion, I don't even know why smugmug want's to be an openID provider
http://photography.ashishpandey.com
smugmug ID: ashishpandey (but I prefer my domain URL above
We'll make it fast again, pronto.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
You have me confused, are you saying no one can leave a comment
without using the FB button so anonymous can't comment? That's what
that statement indicates. I don't have a FB site so there are no links back
to my site from logged on FB users.
I have all kinds of comments, some anonymous, but the Captcha screens
them. This is all I need, I don't need the added overhead.
What exactly does FB do? If all it is to bypass the Captcha it's kind of
ridiculous, poor FB users can't follow the simple way it's done now.
My Website index | My Blog
Make it completely optional too (side wide opt-out would be best IMHO).
Pronto.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
www.photobycate.com
http://photobycate.wordpress.com/
First of all, from a legitimate commenter's point-of-view, Captchas suck.
Secondly, I'm not big fan of Facebook, but I can see how some of these kids might want to avoid having to constantly type captchas (and optionally include their e-mail and link) if they're just trying to comment on their friend's (and anybody's) SmugMug galleries. (Not that any "kids" use SmugMug.)
Finally this would appeal to SmugMuggers who *do* use Facebook, as it provides a quick way to click on the commenter and get to their Facebook profile.
Why?
If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.
So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
90% of my friends list are in their 40s.
Kids?
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Then what is this:
< script type=="text/javascript"> FB.init("large hex number removed", "/services/fbconnect/xd_receiver.htm",{"reloadIfSessionStateChanged" : true}); < / script >doing in my page source?It sure looks like its loading code for FB. And that large hex number looks like some kind of unique identifier... <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Beyond that it boils down to who controls my site. Just like the well beaten dead horse of an /iphone interface, it should be my choice what features get enabled and which remain disabled.
Heck, I can disable the users ability to run a slideshow with just a single line in the CSS.
Would you be pushing back on people requesting that if it didn't already exist?
As far as Facebook goes, there have been enough issues with their license agreement (not just the one over the last week) that honestly? I want nothing to do with the site. And I don't want a link from my site to Facebook. I've removed the button from my guestbook, but the code is still lurking in the background. Maybe that's not rational, but that's my take on it right now.
The argument that I could click on someone's name in my guestbook to see their Facebook info? I do not have a Facebook account, and I have no plans to start one. So that link does me no good.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Here's my question back to you, Andy: What if I don't mind if people leave anonymous comments? It is after all MY site with MY content, and if I am OK with MY visitors leaving anonymous comments, then why should it matter to SmugMug?
And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure if you look back at this thread, you'll see that there are things being loaded, even before visitors click the button.
Don
My Galleries
My Photo Blog
we will fix it so the code only loads when the button is clicked to connect with facebook. there will be no fb code loaded for normal viewing of your page.
the question is what are your objections assuming no FB code is loaded in normal browsing situations.
and that unique identifier is our api key to facebook.
Yes Andy, I know the "olds" have discovered Facebook now. :-}
I was just kidding (kind of). People in their 40s still use e-mail. Not so much people in their 20s and increasingly (and annoyingly) in their 30s.
My wife (in her 30s) says e-mail is now like snail mail.
I like this analysis:
http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2007/07/15/facebook-to-supplant-email/
Also, like I said, Im a FB user & like it a lot. Have been since early 2006, back when it wasnt the cat's meow. But I also know that playing favorites with any site of this nature is probably not the best thing to do. I mean, its not like something wont take the place of Facebook in the near future. It always happens & these things lose their cool kinda fast. Imagine if everytime that happened you guys had to implement the newest, hottest social networking site in the comments section. It would start to become ridiculous. A few years ago it would have been Friendster, then Myspace, then Facebook, & so on.
P.S. Im not saying OpenID is the answer either. But until there's a clear one-login-for-all winner (if there ever is), I personally wouldnt go down that road.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I'm fine with it if there's no facebook code loading until a viewer asks to use Facebook Connect.
The site slowdown while loading a bunch of new facebook stuff and the new reliability dependency on several non-Smugmug domains just to view for every one of my galleries was my issue that triggered me to post this originally.
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the button is clicked. Very few if any of my visitors use Facebook, esp. my
family. And I know some will click on it just because it's there.
I don't need any unwanted advertising on my site.
Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.
Firefox 3.0.6 only works sometimes after a few refreshs. Works in IE6.
My Website index | My Blog
My main question is, as a fairly long time pro account holder (and hope to stay that way), if I don't enable (or offer) the ability to comment on any of my smugmug content do I need to worry about the situation being discussed here in this thread?
rich56k
Member: ASMP; EP; NPPA; CPS
Now if you could just give me the option to close the /iphone hole and add coupons I'd be :ivar
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Just left a comment, using FF3.
http://www.photosbyat.com/gallery/1790648
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