Lots of new downloads from facebook as part of your galleries

2

Comments

  • devbobodevbobo Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,339 SmugMug Employee
    edited February 19, 2009
    It is indeed the silver bullet unless you are missing the big picture

    Let's take a look: google and yahoo together may be enough to surpass any reasonable userbase we are talking about.

    Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID#Adoption
    Quote from above: As of November 2008, there are over 500 million OpenIDs on the Internet and approximately 27,000 sites have integrated OpenID consumer support

    You talk about a specific site like TechCrunch, but you should not ignore this: http://openiddirectory.com. Look at the list there and see how much simpler this has become. Suddenly from nowhere everyone is integrating so quickly

    And finally, since you are so keen to jump upto the facebook bangwagon (which I have so far not found interesting enough to sign up for), here is something to look forward to: Facebook joins openID

    In the end, it's your choice to implement it as a open standard and do it once, or to fiddle with it for vendor specific APIs (which is exactly what seems to be happening right now)

    There may be 500 million OpenIDs, but most of those people wouldn't know what OpenID is, let alone that they have one. Considering OpenID is coming up on it's 5 year anniversary...i'd say 27,000 sites with integrated consumer support is pretty lame.
    David Parry
    SmugMug API Developer
    My Photos
  • ashishpandeyashishpandey Registered Users Posts: 100 Big grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    devbobo wrote:
    There may be 500 million OpenIDs, but most of those people wouldn't know what OpenID is, let alone that they have one. Considering OpenID is coming up on it's 5 year anniversary...i'd say 27,000 sites with integrated consumer support is pretty lame.
    As compared to what?
    As I said, you can argue and resist it. It's your project and your own call. I shared the adoption details with you. It has the sites listed. If you think they are all meaningless and smugmug's decision is better, so be it. I am thinking there must be a reason why facebook went ahead to join openID (that simply means 500 million + facebook)
    As for people knowing if they had openID, it's more of a case of the right user interface. When I first encountered openID, I did not know about it. All I got was a blog where I could use my google account to leave comments. The UI was intuitive enough to make it a no brainer
    Ashish
    http://photography.ashishpandey.com
    smugmug ID: ashishpandey (but I prefer my domain URL above :D)
  • devbobodevbobo Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,339 SmugMug Employee
    edited February 19, 2009
    As compared to what?

    Does it matter what it's compared to ? You are touting OpenID as the silver bullet, but the implementation rates don't seem to reflect that. I'm looking at http://openiddirectory.com and they have like 782 sites listed, hardly compelling. And I don't see any of the big boys with consumer support either... Google, Yahoo, Microsoft ?

    One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)... sure it might make sense to tech savvy people but the average web user really doesn't have a clue. Hence, why Facebook is joining OpenID "with a commitment to better user experience".

    And for the record, this isn't my project.
    David Parry
    SmugMug API Developer
    My Photos
  • inkmantpainkmantpa Registered Users Posts: 31 Big grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    devbobo wrote:
    Does it matter what it's compared to ? You are touting OpenID as the silver bullet, but the implementation rates don't seem to reflect that. I'm looking at http://openiddirectory.com and they have like 782 sites listed, hardly compelling. And I don't see any of the big boys with consumer support either... Google, Yahoo, Microsoft ?

    One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)... sure it might make sense to tech savvy people but the average web user really doesn't have a clue. Hence, why Facebook is joining OpenID "with a commitment to better user experience".

    And for the record, this isn't my project.

    All of this is interesting, but the fact is that the Facebook integration that has been implemented does not work. Rather than back out the change, SM "hopes" it will be fixed in the next release. To be honest, I am happy with comments working just the way they were, and see no need to potentially impact (well in this case ACTUALLY impact) the performance of my site due to SM's insistence on using something that at this point is a hindrance and not a help.
    ________________
    Don
    My Galleries
    My Photo Blog
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Just another vote against Facebook ID integration. I don't want it and there are lots of good reasons (given in this thread) why.
  • Ryan ArmbrustRyan Armbrust Registered Users Posts: 329 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    I really hate that my page and images load much slower due to a Facebook integration. This needs to go away. I know it's big money for you guys, but damn.
  • ashishpandeyashishpandey Registered Users Posts: 100 Big grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    devbobo wrote:
    Does it matter what it's compared to ?
    Yes, it always does. Saying that something isn't well adopted has to be in context of something that you consider as well adopted. You wanted to know if openID can boast of anything compared to 175 million users that facebook gets in. If all you want is a user Id for comments, yahoo's 250 million users + google + myspace (and soon facebook, clickpass already support them) will make sure that almost everyone coming across is covered, if you want so.
    devbobo wrote:
    One of the biggest reasons why OpenID hasn't taken off, is the user experience (or lack of)...
    And the reason we are discussing all this is because of all the confusion that the new facebook button created. I can already see that it was intuitive enough for the users. A bad user experience can always be created, and improved upon - openID itself does not dictate a user interface limitation. It has been easy enough for me to go on blogger or technorati and leave comments; and I am sure once you fix your facebook implementation hopefully your UI will also be better - until something changes at facebook in a bad way. Good if facebook is going to come and improve user experinece, maybe they can, maybe they cannot. Stuff like clickpass have been trying to achieve the same and a coordinated effort will win in the end
    devbobo wrote:
    And for the record, this isn't my project.
    we are discussion smugmug's implementation. I don't know why setting this record straight was even needed

    Reading back this discussion, I don't even know why smugmug want's to be an openID provider headscratch.gif perhaps it's a case of leech only torrents
    Ashish
    http://photography.ashishpandey.com
    smugmug ID: ashishpandey (but I prefer my domain URL above :D)
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    I know it's big money for you guys

    headscratch.gif I keep looking for that big money, dunno what your speaking about - there's $0 involved in the facebook connect - it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.

    We'll make it fast again, pronto.
  • AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,013 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    ... it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.
    ...
    This makes no sense at all.
    You have me confused, are you saying no one can leave a comment
    without using the FB button so anonymous can't comment? That's what
    that statement indicates. I don't have a FB site so there are no links back
    to my site from logged on FB users.

    I have all kinds of comments, some anonymous, but the Captcha screens
    them. This is all I need, I don't need the added overhead.

    What exactly does FB do? If all it is to bypass the Captcha it's kind of
    ridiculous, poor FB users can't follow the simple way it's done now.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
  • mbellotmbellot Registered Users Posts: 465 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    headscratch.gif I keep looking for that big money, dunno what your speaking about - there's $0 involved in the facebook connect - it's just a way to have commenters not be anonymous.

    We'll make it fast again, pronto.

    Make it completely optional too (side wide opt-out would be best IMHO).

    Pronto. thumb.gif
  • denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,383 moderator
    edited February 19, 2009
    mbellot wrote:
    Make it completely optional too (side wide opt-out would be best IMHO).
    I'd also like to opt-out of this, preferably at a site level.

    --- Denise
  • PhotobycatePhotobycate Registered Users Posts: 127 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Option to opt out for me too. I do not have comments for my galleries but do on my guestbook. :yikes

    I'd also like to opt-out of this, preferably at a site level.

    --- Denise
  • darryldarryl Registered Users Posts: 997 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Allen wrote:
    This makes no sense at all.
    You have me confused, are you saying no one can leave a comment
    without using the FB button so anonymous can't comment? That's what
    that statement indicates. I don't have a FB site so there are no links back
    to my site from logged on FB users.

    I have all kinds of comments, some anonymous, but the Captcha screens
    them. This is all I need, I don't need the added overhead.

    What exactly does FB do? If all it is to bypass the Captcha it's kind of
    ridiculous, poor FB users can't follow the simple way it's done now.

    First of all, from a legitimate commenter's point-of-view, Captchas suck.

    Secondly, I'm not big fan of Facebook, but I can see how some of these kids might want to avoid having to constantly type captchas (and optionally include their e-mail and link) if they're just trying to comment on their friend's (and anybody's) SmugMug galleries. (Not that any "kids" use SmugMug.)

    Finally this would appeal to SmugMuggers who *do* use Facebook, as it provides a quick way to click on the commenter and get to their Facebook profile.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    darryl wrote:
    some of these kids

    90% of my friends list are in their 40s.

    Kids?
  • mbellotmbellot Registered Users Posts: 465 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
    No code loading?

    Then what is this:
    < script type=="text/javascript">  FB.init("large hex number removed", "/services/fbconnect/xd_receiver.htm",{"reloadIfSessionStateChanged" : true}); < / script >
    
    doing in my page source?

    It sure looks like its loading code for FB. And that large hex number looks like some kind of unique identifier... <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/eek7.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >


    Beyond that it boils down to who controls my site. Just like the well beaten dead horse of an /iphone interface, it should be my choice what features get enabled and which remain disabled.

    Heck, I can disable the users ability to run a slideshow with just a single line in the CSS.

    Would you be pushing back on people requesting that if it didn't already exist?
  • denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,383 moderator
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
    You say there is no code loading, but the code is there.

    As far as Facebook goes, there have been enough issues with their license agreement (not just the one over the last week) that honestly? I want nothing to do with the site. And I don't want a link from my site to Facebook. I've removed the button from my guestbook, but the code is still lurking in the background. Maybe that's not rational, but that's my take on it right now.

    The argument that I could click on someone's name in my guestbook to see their Facebook info? I do not have a Facebook account, and I have no plans to start one. So that link does me no good.

    --- Denise
  • inkmantpainkmantpa Registered Users Posts: 31 Big grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!

    Here's my question back to you, Andy: What if I don't mind if people leave anonymous comments? It is after all MY site with MY content, and if I am OK with MY visitors leaving anonymous comments, then why should it matter to SmugMug?

    And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure if you look back at this thread, you'll see that there are things being loaded, even before visitors click the button.
    ________________
    Don
    My Galleries
    My Photo Blog
  • bwgbwg Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,119 SmugMug Employee
    edited February 19, 2009
    mbellot wrote:
    It sure looks like its loading code for FB. And that large hex number looks like some kind of unique identifier... eek7.gif

    we will fix it so the code only loads when the button is clicked to connect with facebook. there will be no fb code loaded for normal viewing of your page.

    the question is what are your objections assuming no FB code is loaded in normal browsing situations.

    and that unique identifier is our api key to facebook.
    Pedal faster
  • darryldarryl Registered Users Posts: 997 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    90% of my friends list are in their 40s.

    Kids?

    Yes Andy, I know the "olds" have discovered Facebook now. :-}

    I was just kidding (kind of). People in their 40s still use e-mail. Not so much people in their 20s and increasingly (and annoyingly) in their 30s.

    My wife (in her 30s) says e-mail is now like snail mail.

    I like this analysis:
    http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2007/07/15/facebook-to-supplant-email/
  • peestandinguppeestandingup Registered Users Posts: 489 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
    I think a lot of people just dont want to associate their site with a social networking site (or any other site for that matter) in any way. This is understandable, especially for Pros who have worked hard on coding their site to make it look as professional & unique as possible. Now their visitors have to see a big honking blue Facebook button on their comments page staring them in the face with no way to get rid of it. Not cool.

    Also, like I said, Im a FB user & like it a lot. Have been since early 2006, back when it wasnt the cat's meow. But I also know that playing favorites with any site of this nature is probably not the best thing to do. I mean, its not like something wont take the place of Facebook in the near future. It always happens & these things lose their cool kinda fast. Imagine if everytime that happened you guys had to implement the newest, hottest social networking site in the comments section. It would start to become ridiculous. A few years ago it would have been Friendster, then Myspace, then Facebook, & so on.

    P.S. Im not saying OpenID is the answer either. But until there's a clear one-login-for-all winner (if there ever is), I personally wouldnt go down that road.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!
    Yes, to clarify, we're FIXING this...it's going in this next release we hope :D See bigwebguy's post just above, please.
  • jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Here's a question to those that are asking for opt-out:


    Why?

    If there's no code loading for your visitor unless they push the facebook connect button, what's the issue? The only use for this facebook connect is for commenters to not be anonymous.

    So can you folks asking to opt-out, please elaborate? Thanks!

    I'm fine with it if there's no facebook code loading until a viewer asks to use Facebook Connect.

    The site slowdown while loading a bunch of new facebook stuff and the new reliability dependency on several non-Smugmug domains just to view for every one of my galleries was my issue that triggered me to post this originally.
    --John
    HomepagePopular
    JFriend's javascript customizationsSecrets for getting fast answers on Dgrin
    Always include a link to your site when posting a question
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    inkmantpa wrote:
    And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure if you look back at this thread, you'll see that there are things being loaded, even before visitors click the button.
    Guys- it's not live yet, what we're changing. I've posted in this thread that we're doing some changes right now. Stay tuned, okay? Thanks for your patience :D
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    jfriend wrote:
    I'm fine with it if there's no facebook code loading until a viewer asks to use Facebook Connect.

    The site slowdown while loading a bunch of new facebook stuff and the new reliability dependency on several non-Smugmug domains just to view for every one of my galleries was my issue that triggered me to post this originally.
    Thx John - I think you'll be happy with the next release, it's in testing right now.
  • AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,013 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    My biggest beef is it looks like you're being asked to sign up for Facebook if
    the button is clicked. Very few if any of my visitors use Facebook, esp. my
    family. And I know some will click on it just because it's there.

    I don't need any unwanted advertising on my site.


    Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.

    Firefox 3.0.6 only works sometimes after a few refreshs. Works in IE6.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
  • rich56krich56k Registered Users Posts: 547 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    So we as photographers should want nothing to do with facebook considering their TOS situation - and yes I know...but, just the fact they even 'went there' should be enough to scare the %#*@ out of any self-respecting photogs (HELLO!!!)..deal.gif (needed to rant - sorry!)

    My main question is, as a fairly long time pro account holder (and hope to stay that way), if I don't enable (or offer) the ability to comment on any of my smugmug content do I need to worry about the situation being discussed here in this thread? ne_nau.gif


    rich56k
    http://HooliganUnderground.com
    Member: ASMP; EP; NPPA; CPS
  • mbellotmbellot Registered Users Posts: 465 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Yes, to clarify, we're FIXING this...it's going in this next release we hope :D See bigwebguy's post just above, please.
    Excellent. I'd still like to see a full opt-out so the code doesn't even load when someone chooses to add a comment, but I guess this is the next best thing (in combination with the CSS to hide the button).

    Now if you could just give me the option to close the /iphone hole and add coupons I'd be :ivar
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Allen wrote:
    My biggest beef is it looks like you're being asked to sign up for Facebook if
    the button is clicked. Very few if any of my visitors use Facebook, esp. my
    family. And I know some will click on it just because it's there.

    I don't need any unwanted advertising on my site.


    Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.

    Firefox 3.0.6 only works sometimes after a few refreshs. Works in IE6.
    Hey Al, you'll be able to hide it easy peasy.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2009
    Allen wrote:
    Besides, my comment button does not work in my guestbook since it's been added.

    Just left a comment, using FF3.
    http://www.photosbyat.com/gallery/1790648
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