thanks...I'll post some stuff tonight when I get home. I know what you mean about shooting outdoors. We went to disneyland last week and it was the first time I took a picture outdoors since last August. I almost forgot how to shoot outside!
Trying my hand at slideshows
Hi Gang,
The season's approaching and I've been back at the gym doing some shooting for a banquet they had tonight.
I got asked to do a slideshow for the Level 4, 5 and 6 teams and decided it was time to learn about doing slideshows. After reading some very positive reviews (cnet.com) about "ProShow Gold" I downloaded the free trial and put together a 4:26sec, 90 photo show in about an hour (never mind all the time I spent this past week in PP for all the photos I shot last week).
Love the program, and their customer service is unbelieveable. They're based in Austin, TX and have toll free phone service, 7 days a week........even if you're just using the free trial version. I was so impressed that I bought a licensed copy as soon as I finished the slideshow.
I uploaded it in HD, but it's too much for my machine to play. It plays just about perfect in the 480p mode, and full screen. Just a basic presentation for this go-round, but I'll play around with all the cool features over the next couple of months. Enjoy!
As some of you may have seen in a recent gymnastics thread that I dredged up, I'm looking to buy my first DSLR setup in order to shoot my daughter's Gymnastics. Competition season doesn't start until end of August, so I've got plenty of time to learn, shop, practice, etc.
So I was wondering if I could get some opinions on Canon vs. Nikon. I'm not looking to start a brand war, just looking for info like:
-Which is better in low light at high/higher ISO's
-Which has faster, more accurate focusing
-Anything else that makes a camera good for non-flash, gym lit sports
Here are some of the real life examples I have so far:
1) One of the parents at our gym is using a Nikon D80 w/ 18-200DX VR f3.5-5.6 lens shooting in "sports" mode. She's able to stop action, and getting alot of decent shots.
2) One of the pros here is shooting a d300 with the 70-200 f2.8 VR lens and he's getting great shots. He's tried the lens on a d90 and says there's a noticeable difference in performance
3) Another member here is shooting a Canon 40d w/ Canon 70-200 f2.8 and is also getting great results
4) The local pro here in town who comes to our meets is using a Canon 1d (possibly) and a big Canon lens (I'm not sure which one) and IMO, the photos aren't that great because they're sort of washed out and the background is sort of too in focus. Again, that's just my opinion.
Looking forward to learning more. And just to clarify, I'm only going to be shooting gymnastics with this. I don't need it to do movies, and I don't care about having a gazillion megapixels. I also don't want to have to run to something like noise ninja and/or photoshop to make the pictures correct looking. So for example, if an xti can take the shots I want, but then I have to spend time in PP cleaning them up, I'm not interested.....if that makes sense.
Edit: Forgot to mention the money factor. My intent is to by used and the d300, is top of what I'm willing to pay for....or it's Canon equivalent. I figure somewhere between the Canon xti, Nikon d80, and d300, etc. there's a camera that will do what I need. Maybe it's just the d300 and I should pull the trigger on one.
But I wanted to get other's opinions too.
I have a D90, use to have a D80 I love the D90. Have shot baseball, softball, basketball and football (night games) with a couple of guys whom use a D80 and a D300 both with 70-200 2.8. For whatever reason I get much better pics with the D90 and a 80-200 2.8 lens than they do. Maybe it is better technique, I also use a monopod for outside games. I prefer the D90. Check out kenrockwell.com, I got my D90 from B&H for $786.
Turned out to be a big waste of time though. During the banquet, the gym projected it using a laptop onto a couple of white painted pieces of plywood that were propped up directly below a huge skylight. They had no set up for real stereo sound, completely forgot that there was music to it, and after about 20 seconds someone ran over to the laptop with a microphone and laid it ontop of one of the laptop's little speakers.
Needless to say, it couldn't have sucked more if it'd been on purpose
In other news....our season starts in just 4 weeks! I hope finances will allow me that 135/2 this season.
Turned out to be a big waste of time though. During the banquet, the gym projected it using a laptop onto a couple of white painted pieces of plywood that were propped up directly below a huge skylight. They had no set up for real stereo sound, completely forgot that there was music to it, and after about 20 seconds someone ran over to the laptop with a microphone and laid it ontop of one of the laptop's little speakers.
Needless to say, it couldn't have sucked more if it'd been on purpose
In other news....our season starts in just 4 weeks! I hope finances will allow me that 135/2 this season.
I'm hoping to have a 300/2.8 at the start of the season, and will be playing with an 85/1.4. I'm actually thinking of selling the 7D to help fund the nikon 300/2.8 then put this years sales toward whatever it is Nikon plans on replacing the D700 with. I'll shoot the 70-200/2.8 & 300/2.8 on the D300 and the 85/1.4 on the D700 for next season.
Good read on the blog. I wonder if you could have overcome the focusing issue with more use of it in that type of scenario? My 50D will do the same thing so I keep it set to only use the center focus point, and sometimes/usually, I'll use the thumb-push focus to focus on something where the althete will be, let go of that button so the focus won't change, and then just use the shutter to take one, or a series of photos. (I'm a total novice, so I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it's what I've been doing in order to keep the camera from grabbing stuff in the distance.) It's one of the things I don't like about the camera...that it doesn't have enough focus points and the ones it does have, are so far apart that a moving athlete is almost always in between them.
Thanks for the offer on the 7D. Financially I can't do it, even if I sold the 50D.
You know that really is a great way to avoid focus loss sometimes. I didn't even try it here, not sure how long it would have taken me to figure it out on the 7D anyway. I set up my D300 like that quite a bit and it's a stress saver in a lot of situations. I think that with the range I was at and with the 300@2.8 combined with the stride of the pitcher I would have ended up soft. but no softer than having a tack sharp center field wall
I struggle with it all the time shooting my daughter's gymnastics. I try to lock focus on the bar, but they she swings in and out of focus. I can't do much for DOF to compensate, because the gyms are usually so poorly lit that there's no way. If I leave my thumb on the focus button, it's nearly impossible to keep that center focus box on her, so the camera comes in and out of grabbing her and the wall behind. I tried the servo mode where it uses the center box as primary and as long as it or one of the outer boxes is on the subject it'll live focus, but that didn't work because there's too much space between the focus points...once she'd get between them, the focus would go right to the back wall.
IMO, what Canon needs is a wider center focus point, and a band of focus points around it. Sort of a "sports focus" mode if you will. But, being a total novice, and not knowing what I'm talking about, maybe some of there 1D's have this? Obviously the "pros" shooting at the olympics and nationals don't have a focusing problem.....so it's probably just me.
Just thought I'd jump in... I got a chance to shoot at the local gym this year, the one advantage i had was that i could be out on the floor with the kids since it was a home meet and i was there as a photographer... I shoot with a nikon d60 and a whole lot of manual focus old lens's that were my grandpa's from his nikon f3
Most of these were shot with a 35mm prime and a 70-135mm prime
1.
2.
3.
I actually just purchased my FIRST auto focus lens in June (startin with the 35mm and workin up lol) and I'll be picking up a 55mm-200mm in two weeks... I absolutely love the manual focus and settings but at the same time I want to get more into things so I'm kind of back to wanting the auto focus so i know i got the shots! But if i get the opportunities i pull out the other lens's still! I'm hoping to be able to shoot this year at the gym with the auto focus and see what a difference it makes! Hopefully some!
Thanks for all the info in this great thread. I'm a new photog and have really enjoyed the help this thread has brought me. I'm shooting with a D5000 and using a 50mm f/1.8 prime for the gym (practice photo below). The gym was kind enough to allow me into a private practice late last week to do some testing of my equipment. I'm renting a 70-200mm f/2.8 for the upcoming meet. My daughter (10 y/o) is level 4 this year (2nd year at 4) and expected to do very well (she medaled at state competition last year), so I'm excited to get some great shots. Learning as I go, this thread has been VERY helpful. THANK YOU for posting all of your trials and details.
I'm hoping to offset my equipment rental cost by selling digitals and prints to other parents. Anyone else doing that, and any suggestions? I've sold some of my son's football games, and it helps (lenserentals.com isn't cheap).
Our season officially kicks off this weekend at a meet in Santa Cruz, CA.
Re: selling your photos to fellow parents...good luck! Lemme know how that turns out. My suggestion is; right up front make a little a flyer or something with your rates and contact info, and give that to the parents. If you hear back from them, great. If not, you know they're not interested. There appears to be a fine line between being everybody's new best friend (as you dish out free samples) and being the SOB who's trying to make a profit off fellow parents...at least in our gym.
Re: selling your photos to fellow parents...good luck! Lemme know how that turns out. My suggestion is; right up front make a little a flyer or something with your rates and contact info, and give that to the parents. If you hear back from them, great. If not, you know they're not interested. There appears to be a fine line between being everybody's new best friend (as you dish out free samples) and being the SOB who's trying to make a profit off fellow parents...at least in our gym.
Thanks for the advise. I hoping that if I'm up front about it - that the reason I charge for the digital downloads is to pay for the equipment rental - that I won't look bad since I'm not really looking to turn a profit, just come out closer to even. We'll see how it goes.
My son (12 y/o) played a pre-season tournament and they had pro photogs there. I went to their site afterward and saw they were selling 4x6 prints for $9.00 each, and digitals for $20.00 each! Insane! I took photos at our first game last week, put them online and shared the link on our team facebook, and was surprised to see some parents purchase some prints (at smugmug default cost) and digitals at $3.00 each. They later told me at practice how excited they were to be able to get nice pictures for such a cheap price compared to the pro company.
I've had a smugmug pro account for a few years just for the personal HD video, never tried to sell anything until now.
Our first meet is tomorrow - I'll be shooting the first 40 min. with my 50mm f/1.8, but then have to leave to go cover the football game (wife and I have to split up some Saturdays). But next meet later this month is in a school gym with really good lighting, so I'm renting a 70-200mm f/2.8 that I'm hoping will get great shots. I'll post my success (or failure) later.
Well, first meet shot yesterday - I learned what you've all been saying: photographing gymnastics is HARD.
I was shooting with a 50mm f/1.8 prime - and my first lesson was that I really need to get an 85mm f/1.4 to get the shots that I want. Also, I chose to sit in a pretty bad place. I thought it would be good, but the way the girls did their floor routine I had their back to me for most of the good action. A side profile would have been better, but the gym was so small and packed with people, once you had a seat you couldn't move.
Next meet should be better - it's in a school gym so the lighting will be better and I'm renting a 70-200mm f/2.8. I'm still learning that's for sure!
Just getting back from our first meet. I'll take a look at the photos tomorrow.
My best advice is to attend as many of your daughter's practices as you can, in order to get the routine's sort of memorized. Once you know where she'll be and what she'll be doing, you can sort of teach yourself to be there with the camera to capture it. Easier said than done, but you know what I mean.
Also, thumb-focus "on" mode is a super nice feature. You can keep the camera in a live-tracking mode via your thumb and squeeze off photos as you wish. Or, park the focus on one location....like mid-vault-table....and take photos as she passes through your view.
I personally always shoot in high speed burst mode.
Posters?
austinado16, I love the posters you were showing off earlier in the thread. Would you mind sharing some of your magic secrets on how you're creating them?
I gather PS Elements? What size, and how/where are you printing them? My wife saw them as I was reading through the thread and now expects me to figure out how to do something like that.
austinado16, I love the posters you were showing off earlier in the thread. Would you mind sharing some of your magic secrets on how you're creating them?
I gather PS Elements? What size, and how/where are you printing them? My wife saw them as I was reading through the thread and now expects me to figure out how to do something like that.
I think I'm figuring it out. Going to take some time to build some skills, but this is fun.
austinado16, I love the posters you were showing off earlier in the thread. Would you mind sharing some of your magic secrets on how you're creating them?
I gather PS Elements? What size, and how/where are you printing them? My wife saw them as I was reading through the thread and now expects me to figure out how to do something like that.
Looks like you're getting the hang of it fast. I think they're really fun to do and the possibilities are sort of endless. Keep up the good work!
Here's one of mine from Sunday. Didn't have that great of a day with the camera. I only shot my daughter, and her friend (shown here) but I'm not too happy with the results. I guess I'm sort of out-of-the-zone from not doing much sports shooting for so many months.
Videos
I shoot with the 7d mainly because I'm actually also very interested in its amazing video capabilities. I made this video from one of our earlier meets:
The video is very cool and great job editing it! I like the poster and have one suggestions FIW, I wouldn't put the typography over the girls because to me, the girls are the most important visual image.
Greetings to old and new gymnastics fans. I'm glad the compulsory season is starting again, so I look forward to see you share your spoil of the season in this thread. Of course, I'll share mine. Sadly, my daughter decided to drop out of gymnastics after 4 years of hard work. We still love the sport and will attend as many gymnastics meets as we can. Happy shooting and best wishes to all the gymnasts.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Hi Cuong! Sorry to hear that your daughter has moved on. It's a super tough sport and it requires such a huge amount of dedictation and time that I think it slowly does that to most athletes. Combine that with the fact that each season it gets more difficult due to the increase in the complexity of skills, and there you have it....
I figure we might have a couple years left, with a move up to Level 6 after this year, and then we'll be done too. Although honestly, due to the politics and lopsided coaching in our gym, I'm done right now.
All the pounding from year-round practice is tough on the body. Luckily, my daughter never sustained any lasting injury after all these years. Her lingering ankle pain disappeared completely 2 weeks after she stopped going to gym practice. I didn't get involved in gym politics, but I've seen how nasty it can become. Enjoy the season while you can.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Comments
Hi Gang,
The season's approaching and I've been back at the gym doing some shooting for a banquet they had tonight.
I got asked to do a slideshow for the Level 4, 5 and 6 teams and decided it was time to learn about doing slideshows. After reading some very positive reviews (cnet.com) about "ProShow Gold" I downloaded the free trial and put together a 4:26sec, 90 photo show in about an hour (never mind all the time I spent this past week in PP for all the photos I shot last week
Love the program, and their customer service is unbelieveable. They're based in Austin, TX and have toll free phone service, 7 days a week........even if you're just using the free trial version
Anyway, you can take a look at it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYb2c_8qgHY&feature=channel
I uploaded it in HD, but it's too much for my machine to play. It plays just about perfect in the 480p mode, and full screen. Just a basic presentation for this go-round, but I'll play around with all the cool features over the next couple of months. Enjoy!
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
I have a D90, use to have a D80 I love the D90. Have shot baseball, softball, basketball and football (night games) with a couple of guys whom use a D80 and a D300 both with 70-200 2.8. For whatever reason I get much better pics with the D90 and a 80-200 2.8 lens than they do. Maybe it is better technique, I also use a monopod for outside games. I prefer the D90. Check out kenrockwell.com, I got my D90 from B&H for $786.
Cuong
Turned out to be a big waste of time though. During the banquet, the gym projected it using a laptop onto a couple of white painted pieces of plywood that were propped up directly below a huge skylight. They had no set up for real stereo sound, completely forgot that there was music to it, and after about 20 seconds someone ran over to the laptop with a microphone and laid it ontop of one of the laptop's little speakers.
Needless to say, it couldn't have sucked more if it'd been on purpose
In other news....our season starts in just 4 weeks! I hope finances will allow me that 135/2 this season.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
So after putting some mileage on the 7D, what are your thoughts?
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
I'm a Nikon guy so I'm biased but I liked it.
I used it for this years High School Championship game at the nearby AA field.
I've got less than 2,000 clicks on it personally, I loaned it to another shooter who added another 5,000 or so.
I've really only used it for video and it's great for that.
The blog post for the baseball game has some thoughts about the Canon 7D and my one main issue with it.
Let me know if you're interested before I list it on eBay.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Thanks for the offer on the 7D. Financially I can't do it, even if I sold the 50D.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
IMO, what Canon needs is a wider center focus point, and a band of focus points around it. Sort of a "sports focus" mode if you will. But, being a total novice, and not knowing what I'm talking about, maybe some of there 1D's have this? Obviously the "pros" shooting at the olympics and nationals don't have a focusing problem.....so it's probably just me.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Most of these were shot with a 35mm prime and a 70-135mm prime
1.
2.
3.
I actually just purchased my FIRST auto focus lens in June (startin with the 35mm and workin up lol) and I'll be picking up a 55mm-200mm in two weeks... I absolutely love the manual focus and settings but at the same time I want to get more into things so I'm kind of back to wanting the auto focus so i know i got the shots! But if i get the opportunities i pull out the other lens's still! I'm hoping to be able to shoot this year at the gym with the auto focus and see what a difference it makes! Hopefully some!
www.kp-photos.com : facebook.com/kpphotos
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
I'm hoping to offset my equipment rental cost by selling digitals and prints to other parents. Anyone else doing that, and any suggestions? I've sold some of my son's football games, and it helps (lenserentals.com isn't cheap).
Our season officially kicks off this weekend at a meet in Santa Cruz, CA.
Re: selling your photos to fellow parents...good luck! Lemme know how that turns out. My suggestion is; right up front make a little a flyer or something with your rates and contact info, and give that to the parents. If you hear back from them, great. If not, you know they're not interested. There appears to be a fine line between being everybody's new best friend (as you dish out free samples) and being the SOB who's trying to make a profit off fellow parents...at least in our gym.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Thanks for the advise. I hoping that if I'm up front about it - that the reason I charge for the digital downloads is to pay for the equipment rental - that I won't look bad since I'm not really looking to turn a profit, just come out closer to even. We'll see how it goes.
My son (12 y/o) played a pre-season tournament and they had pro photogs there. I went to their site afterward and saw they were selling 4x6 prints for $9.00 each, and digitals for $20.00 each! Insane! I took photos at our first game last week, put them online and shared the link on our team facebook, and was surprised to see some parents purchase some prints (at smugmug default cost) and digitals at $3.00 each. They later told me at practice how excited they were to be able to get nice pictures for such a cheap price compared to the pro company.
I've had a smugmug pro account for a few years just for the personal HD video, never tried to sell anything until now.
Our first meet is tomorrow - I'll be shooting the first 40 min. with my 50mm f/1.8, but then have to leave to go cover the football game (wife and I have to split up some Saturdays). But next meet later this month is in a school gym with really good lighting, so I'm renting a 70-200mm f/2.8 that I'm hoping will get great shots. I'll post my success (or failure) later.
Good luck to your team tomorrow!
I was shooting with a 50mm f/1.8 prime - and my first lesson was that I really need to get an 85mm f/1.4 to get the shots that I want. Also, I chose to sit in a pretty bad place. I thought it would be good, but the way the girls did their floor routine I had their back to me for most of the good action. A side profile would have been better, but the gym was so small and packed with people, once you had a seat you couldn't move.
Next meet should be better - it's in a school gym so the lighting will be better and I'm renting a 70-200mm f/2.8. I'm still learning that's for sure!
My best advice is to attend as many of your daughter's practices as you can, in order to get the routine's sort of memorized. Once you know where she'll be and what she'll be doing, you can sort of teach yourself to be there with the camera to capture it. Easier said than done, but you know what I mean.
Also, thumb-focus "on" mode is a super nice feature. You can keep the camera in a live-tracking mode via your thumb and squeeze off photos as you wish. Or, park the focus on one location....like mid-vault-table....and take photos as she passes through your view.
I personally always shoot in high speed burst mode.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
austinado16, I love the posters you were showing off earlier in the thread. Would you mind sharing some of your magic secrets on how you're creating them?
I gather PS Elements? What size, and how/where are you printing them? My wife saw them as I was reading through the thread and now expects me to figure out how to do something like that.
I think I'm figuring it out. Going to take some time to build some skills, but this is fun.
Looks like you're getting the hang of it fast. I think they're really fun to do and the possibilities are sort of endless. Keep up the good work!
Here's one of mine from Sunday. Didn't have that great of a day with the camera. I only shot my daughter, and her friend (shown here) but I'm not too happy with the results. I guess I'm sort of out-of-the-zone from not doing much sports shooting for so many months.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
I've been lurking on this thread waiting for the season to start. Thanks for all the great tips. Some of my pics from our last meet:
I shoot with the 7d mainly because I'm actually also very interested in its amazing video capabilities. I made this video from one of our earlier meets:
http://www.vimeo.com/14514878
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
And lastly, I was inspired by some of the posters shown and have been working on making them for our team:
Yes! Begonia Gymfest - I should have recognized those bleachers on your picture.. haha
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Cuong
I figure we might have a couple years left, with a move up to Level 6 after this year, and then we'll be done too. Although honestly, due to the politics and lopsided coaching in our gym, I'm done right now.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Cuong