Shutter speed is very important, but can be used in totally different ways.
You need a fast shutter speed to stop action and a slow shutter speed to show motion.
This everyone knows.
The reason I leave my camera on AV at F4 most of the time at events is simple. I am the least likely to ever miss a shot at that setting.
Sure I adjust off of that setting a bunch throughout the day but as I move around from location to location and for many general shots, thats a setting that always works.
A sharp subject at these events is a must!!! Anything else can be changed later but if its not sharp to start off with then your in trouble.
Why AV over TP? For what I do, I just like it better, and it has the least chances for exposure problems.
If you are at TV at 1/500 and around F4 then all of a sudden a huge dark cloud rolls over the sun the second before you shoot, now you have an image that is 3 or 4 stops underexposed and goes in the trash. The same shot in AV goes to a slower shutter speed but most of the time I have more than enough leeway to still get a sharp image.
Everyone shoots differently, this is just what has worked best for me over the years.
Again, this is just settings for events.
On advertising or editorial jobs I shoot totally different because the environment is controlled and lighting is involved.
I shoot all manual on these types of jobs
Sounds like you have a good system. What is AV and TP though. I'm new ya know! You must be a Cannon user? Is AV aperture priority? Either way, sounds logical what you are doing. I set up a custom shooting bank and called it Racetrack. It's set up for trap focus at the moment. I will probably set up another bank or two just to bounce around and experiment.... all mourning. My afternoon shots should be pretty decent by then. I will come back and share my results with you guys. Please..... do pick em apart! You guys are great and I'm gonna learn a ton from ya's.
I don't remember the details on the SM coupon feature, but can you limit the galleries the coupon applies to? How about limiting the products that the coupon applies to? For example, a coupon for prints 12x18 and larger only? As per watermarks, EM has a few ways to do a watermark: text, or a transparent PNG file. Lastly, on the EM referral, email their support people and see if you can still use my referral. Thanks!
I almost forgot. You can setup "coupon" codes on Smugmug. You can set the price or % discount. You could just make a early bird coupon..... and then delete the coupon code after a week or whenver. You can have multiple coupons for specific friends, family, or whoever.... from my understanding.
Also, I didn't see where you could add watermarks on EM. That's what I almost have to do or people will be right clicking or "the other way" to get screenshots to crop. Watermarks are the only sure security. But you know all this better than I. lol How do you watermark your images? Have a fast and easy way to recommend? lol
I shoot differently than nw_scout does. I always shoot shutter priority, specifically because I'm more concerned with controlling the amount of motion blur than anything else. I'll start each session at the highest shutter speed I'll allow myself to shoot at (for cars, this is usually 1/320 or 1/250) to get my sharp and easy keepers. As the session progresses through the laps I'll start lowering my shutter speed, even as far as 1/60, to get the more dramatic shots. These are, of course, harder to get and they are NOT always sharp, many will get tossed. But that's why I start at the high end, as insurance, and progress to the slow end, to get some eye candy.
Shutter speed is very important, but can be used in totally different ways.
You need a fast shutter speed to stop action and a slow shutter speed to show motion.
This everyone knows.
The reason I leave my camera on AV at F4 most of the time at events is simple. I am the least likely to ever miss a shot at that setting.
Sure I adjust off of that setting a bunch throughout the day but as I move around from location to location and for many general shots, thats a setting that always works.
A sharp subject at these events is a must!!! Anything else can be changed later but if its not sharp to start off with then your in trouble.
Why AV over TP? For what I do, I just like it better, and it has the least chances for exposure problems.
If you are at TV at 1/500 and around F4 then all of a sudden a huge dark cloud rolls over the sun the second before you shoot, now you have an image that is 3 or 4 stops underexposed and goes in the trash. The same shot in AV goes to a slower shutter speed but most of the time I have more than enough leeway to still get a sharp image.
Everyone shoots differently, this is just what has worked best for me over the years.
Again, this is just settings for events.
On advertising or editorial jobs I shoot totally different because the environment is controlled and lighting is involved.
I shoot all manual on these types of jobs
I don't remember the details on the SM coupon feature, but can you limit the galleries the coupon applies to? How about limiting the products that the coupon applies to? For example, a coupon for prints 12x18 and larger only? As per watermarks, EM has a few ways to do a watermark: text, or a transparent PNG file. Lastly, on the EM referral, email their support people and see if you can still use my referral. Thanks!
I really have no clue about any of that. I just remember reading about the coupons when I joined. My trial expired on me and I have yet to renew. Sounds like EM has some cool stuff!!
I did dig deeper into EM settings after I posted about watermarking and saw where you could do it. I'm gonna play around with it for sure!
I'll find out about the referral credit. If and when I decide to join for real.... I'll bet there is a spot to enter the referral link. If not, I'll contact them first before I join so you get your credit.
I shoot differently than nw_scout does. I always shoot shutter priority, specifically because I'm more concerned with controlling the amount of motion blur than anything else. I'll start each session at the highest shutter speed I'll allow myself to shoot at (for cars, this is usually 1/320 or 1/250) to get my sharp and easy keepers. As the session progresses through the laps I'll start lowering my shutter speed, even as far as 1/60, to get the more dramatic shots. These are, of course, harder to get and they are NOT always sharp, many will get tossed. But that's why I start at the high end, as insurance, and progress to the slow end, to get some eye candy.
That's good info. I would have been all over the map trying to get the right shutter speed. I guess I will start high as well and start coming down. I know I will have lots of throw aways! I'm gonna be a panning fool!! That's a good idea though. Start high and get lots of keepers FIRST and then start playing with shutter speeds. Thanks for that info!
What do ya think of the 80-400 for roadracing? It looked a little soft at the 400mm end.
That's good info. I would have been all over the map trying to get the right shutter speed. I guess I will start high as well and start coming down.
You HAVE TO HAVE A SYSTEM TO THIS. If you just go around the track snapping here, snapping there, you are DOOMED TO FAIL. This is why doing this for fun is so much different than doing it for profit.
How will you guarantee you get EVERY rider? How will you guarantee you get multiple angles? How will you guarantee you get every rider at every angle? Are you going to walk away with 70 shots of some people and 2 or 3 of most others?
This is why doing this is no where as easy or simple as most participants usually think it is. They just know their buddy shows up with a camera and takes some pics of them and thinks nothing of it. Things change, a lot, when you're trying to get everyone.
Now you get home. You have to sort through all these photos. Throw away the bad ones. Now, how do you make it easy for the riders to find their shots? Because you don't want to throw up 2,000 photos into a gallery and tell them "good luck and thanks for looking!".
What do ya think of the 80-400 for roadracing? It looked a little soft at the 400mm end.
I'm a Canon guy. I have often considered the 100-400 lens that they have, but then again I also think of just getting a 300/4 or a 400/4. Ideally, two camera bodies, one with a 70-200/2.8, the other with a 400/4. But I can't justify that type of expense.
In all honesty though, do you really think a little soft on the 400mm end is a big deal? Look at what you think you are going to charge and ask yourself if that type of revenue can even justify a nicer lens.
You HAVE TO HAVE A SYSTEM TO THIS. If you just go around the track snapping here, snapping there, you are DOOMED TO FAIL. This is why doing this for fun is so much different than doing it for profit.
How will you guarantee you get EVERY rider? How will you guarantee you get multiple angles? How will you guarantee you get every rider at every angle? Are you going to walk away with 70 shots of some people and 2 or 3 of most others?
This is why doing this is no where as easy or simple as most participants usually think it is. They just know their buddy shows up with a camera and takes some pics of them and thinks nothing of it. Things change, a lot, when you're trying to get everyone.
Now you get home. You have to sort through all these photos. Throw away the bad ones. Now, how do you make it easy for the riders to find their shots? Because you don't want to throw up 2,000 photos into a gallery and tell them "good luck and thanks for looking!".
I'm a Canon guy. I have often considered the 100-400 lens that they have, but then again I also think of just getting a 300/4 or a 400/4. Ideally, two camera bodies, one with a 70-200/2.8, the other with a 400/4. But I can't justify that type of expense.
In all honesty though, do you really think a little soft on the 400mm end is a big deal? Look at what you think you are going to charge and ask yourself if that type of revenue can even justify a nicer lens.
I have been thinking A LOT about the uploading and I already knew that it's gonna be a TON of work and take days to do. I thought about making folders of each particular rider.... and sort them on the PC first and then upload one folder/rider at a time. I also thought about sorting by skill level..... beginner/street, intermediate, and then expert. I also thought about only uploading those who express desire to buy pics or show heavy interest. I will walk the paddock to find those who want them. I thought I would post my contact info on our club's forum too and have people contact me about pics..... and only then will I upload theirs. Some guys sort by corners but I think that's a bad way to do it. Either way I do it.... it's gonna take some serious time!
I like the fact that I am under NO PRESSURE to get good pics.... as far as expectations go. Of course I DO want to make some money but I like the fact that I can learn without worrying about anyone being pissed off about crappy photos. Less pressure equals less stress. Less stress equals better pics I think. I can relax and experiment.... and not go crazy with frustration if they aren't turning out! I think I will do fairly good for the first time and the D300S is an amazing camera. I'm learning a lot just from this thread and it's gonna help a lot.
I have not set any prices in stone yet. It will depend on the quality of the images. I have a lot to learn yet and I need some trial runs first!
I guess I will start high as well and start coming down. I know I will have lots of throw aways! I'm gonna be a panning fool!! That's a good idea though. Start high and get lots of keepers FIRST and then start playing with shutter speeds. Thanks for that info!
(
My only recommendation, no matter how you shoot, is to shoot the faster shutter speed in the nice light. Weather thats the first part of the day or the last. When the light is good you wants to make sure the subject is sharp
My only recommendation, no matter how you shoot, is to shoot the faster shutter speed in the nice light. Weather thats the first part of the day or the last. When the light is good you wants to make sure the subject is sharp
While true; if you're shooting bikes one should allow for some wheel blur
My only recommendation, no matter how you shoot, is to shoot the faster shutter speed in the nice light. Weather thats the first part of the day or the last. When the light is good you wants to make sure the subject is sharp
I'll need to use a specific shutter speed to get wheel blur like torags stated... and that means I will have to slow it down some.
While true; if you're shooting bikes one should allow for some wheel blur
Rags
Be careful not to confuse relative terms, like faster, with absolute terms, like fast. What I think he meant was to use the fastest shutter speed you'll allow yourself to use in the best light of the day.
Just my opinion, but I think people can get to caught up in the technical. Wheel spin is the last thing in a long list of what I am looking for in a good moto action photo.
I understand why some people like it, and I understand why some people don't. For me, its all about light, composition and action. If the shot has all that, I wont even notice if the wheels are spinning or not.
Here is a shot I did last year. Think i shot it at around 1/1200
The wheels are pretty much froze, but thats fine with me. I honestly never even thought about wheel spin during or after shooting it.
If he was blurry, because of a slower shutter speed, this shot would have gone in the trash
Oh. And to keep things on topic, I shot this with a 400mm F4. GREAT lens for track work. I actually like it better than the 400mm 2.8
Awesome shot and great PP. (how much PP went into that by the way?) That shot also reminds me that shooting MX and shooting cars are different. For some reason MX is just more forgiving of a fast shutter. Cars tend to look really, really boring no matter what you do with a fast shutter.
Just my opinion, but I think people can get to caught up in the technical. Wheel spin is the last thing in a long list of what I am looking for in a good moto action photo.
I understand why some people like it, and I understand why some people don't. For me, its all about light, composition and action. If the shot has all that, I wont even notice if the wheels are spinning or not.
Here is a shot I did last year. Think i shot it at around 1/1200
The wheels are pretty much froze, but thats fine with me. I honestly never even thought about wheel spin during or after shooting it.
If he was blurry, because of a slower shutter speed, this shot would have gone in the trash
Oh. And to keep things on topic, I shot this with a 400mm F4. GREAT lens for track work. I actually like it better than the 400mm 2.8
Great shot!! I really like it. MX is a TOTALLY different thing though. Roadracing is ALL about speed and the pics should reflect that. Trust me, a roadracing shot(from the side) looks HORRIBLE if the wheels or spokes are frozen stiff.
Here's a shot of yours truly.... that is well done. It would look REALLY bad with frozen wheels. It's just not the same thing as MX.... and the (wheel)speeds are nowhere even close.
NW Scout, you're work is amazing. There is no question why you are so successful at sports photography and make a living at it. Between you, Erbeman and Merc, we're a bunch of amatures....even if we get paid. Thanks for always sharing your knowledge!
Just my opinion, but I think people can get to caught up in the technical. Wheel spin is the last thing in a long list of what I am looking for in a good moto action photo.
I understand why some people like it, and I understand why some people don't. For me, its all about light, composition and action. If the shot has all that, I wont even notice if the wheels are spinning or not.
Here is a shot I did last year. Think i shot it at around 1/1200
The wheels are pretty much froze, but thats fine with me. I honestly never even thought about wheel spin during or after shooting it.
If he was blurry, because of a slower shutter speed, this shot would have gone in the trash
Oh. And to keep things on topic, I shot this with a 400mm F4. GREAT lens for track work. I actually like it better than the 400mm 2.8
I try to shoot the lowest ss possible. Sometimes that's 8000; cause its midday & shooting f4 to blur background crowd (which never works enough for me) & still clipping colors.
The ss has a lot to do with how many moving parts are within the subject, in an effort to get subject separation
I've found a dirt bike going across a lateral plane can be shot at 350 and pan for separation, a car at 125-250 (& less). A race horse 800, a racing greyhound 1000-1200 & no panning (shallow dof)
Great shot!! I really like it. MX is a TOTALLY different thing though. Roadracing is ALL about speed and the pics should reflect that. Trust me, a roadracing shot(from the side) looks HORRIBLE if the wheels or spokes are frozen stiff.
Here's a shot of yours truly.... that is well done. It would look REALLY bad with frozen wheels. It's just not the same thing as MX.... and the (wheel)speeds are nowhere even close.
Sure MX and road racing are different, but the aspects of a good photo are the same, no matter what you are shooting.
Speed can be shown many ways, and yes, a side view pan is one of them. The thing that makes this an OK shot is not the tire spin, its the blur of the background and the pavement.
Road race tires don't have tread and are smooth and black. It is very difficult to even see if they are spinning in most shots because there is very little to show the spin.
They don't have nobbies or spokes like dirt bikes that show motion much better.
I figured it was a given that in a pan shot that blurs the background that you would get tire spin. The tire spinning is just the result of pan, not the reason for it. A blurred background is what shows the speed, the tire spin is just a bonus to the technique.
Sure MX and road racing are different, but the aspects of a good photo are the same, no matter what you are shooting.
Speed can be shown many ways, and yes, a side view pan is one of them. The thing that makes this an OK shot is not the tire spin, its the blur of the background and the pavement.
Road race tires don't have tread and are smooth and black. It is very difficult to even see if they are spinning in most shots because there is very little to show the spin.
They don't have nobbies or spokes like dirt bikes that show motion much better.
I figured it was a given that in a pan shot that blurs the background that you would get tire spin. The tire spinning is just the result of pan, not the reason for it. A blurred background is what shows the speed, the tire spin is just a bonus to the technique.
I'm not sure if you have ever shot roadracing but TRUST me......... frozen spokes/wheels look REALLY REALLY bad no matter what your light or what action the pic has. From my understanding.... the blur of the pavement/background come from the pan and the wheel blur comes from the slower shutter speed. Is that not right? You're saying you can blur wheels with a pan?? That shot of me above was shot at 1/200.
On a side note... do you ever use trap focus when shooting races?
I'm not sure if you have ever shot road racing but TRUST me......... frozen spokes/wheels look REALLY REALLY bad no matter what your light or what action the pic has. From my understanding.... the blur of the pavement/background come from the pan and the wheel blur comes from the slower shutter speed. Is that not right? You're saying you can blur wheels with a pan?? That shot of me above was shot at 1/200.
On a side note... do you ever use trap focus when shooting races?
Why yes, I have shot road racing.
I have worked with many of the worlds top riders on advertising shoots at different tracks all around the country.
So yes, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on what makes a good shot when it comes to road racing
The blur of the background comes from the pan AND the slow shutter speed.
Set your camera at 1/800 and pan and see if the back ground blurs.
Its the combination of the two that gives you the effect. The slower the shutter speed + the faster the pan = the more the blur.
A similar effect comes from camera mounts or shooting car to bike (or bike to bike, or kart to bike works best)
This allows the use of a wide angle lens with the bike staying sharp and everything else blurring around it.
Just look around at really good race shots. Maybe 90% are 3/4 fronts. Why? Because that's about the coolest angle.
You see the bike way laid over, you see the riders eyes, it looks very aggressive and usually shows a little of the track in the background.
From that angle you almost never see the spokes and the tire is a flat smooth black so it is VERY hard to tell if its moving or frozen.
I shoot all Canon gear so no trap focus. I have heard good and bad about it though.
Spot focus can work well in a controlled setting where you know the action will be and can direct the rider. But on race or practice days servo tracking is the way to go. You never know where the action will be because the lines of the riders are changing so often.
When using the servo tracking, make sure you select a good contrasty spot on the bike for the focus to lock on to. This makes a HUGE difference in the % of sharps you will get.
Why yes, I have shot road racing.
I have worked with many of the worlds top riders on advertising shoots at different tracks all around the country.
So yes, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on what makes a good shot when it comes to road racing
The blur of the background comes from the pan AND the slow shutter speed.
Set your camera at 1/800 and pan and see if the back ground blurs.
Its the combination of the two that gives you the effect. The slower the shutter speed + the faster the pan = the more the blur.
A similar effect comes from camera mounts or shooting car to bike (or bike to bike, or kart to bike works best)
This allows the use of a wide angle lens with the bike staying sharp and everything else blurring around it.
Just look around at really good race shots. Maybe 90% are 3/4 fronts. Why? Because that's about the coolest angle.
You see the bike way laid over, you see the riders eyes, it looks very aggressive and usually shows a little of the track in the background.
From that angle you almost never see the spokes and the tire is a flat smooth black so it is VERY hard to tell if its moving or frozen.
I shoot all Canon gear so no trap focus. I have heard good and bad about it though.
Spot focus can work well in a controlled setting where you know the action will be and can direct the rider. But on race or practice days servo tracking is the way to go. You never know where the action will be because the lines of the riders are changing so often.
When using the servo tracking, make sure you select a good contrasty spot on the bike for the focus to lock on to. This makes a HUGE difference in the % of sharps you will get.
I wasn't saying you don't have a grasp... I was just curious if you shot roadracing. Regardless, of who shoots the pics.... frozen spokes look really bad 99% of the time IMO. Do you have any "good" frozen spoke shots you can share?
I agree on the 3/4 shots and that wheels don't play much factor in anything other than a side shot. I just can't stand frozen wheels on a side shot! haha
Someone had recommended gluing focus point to the helmet.... but obviously that won't work all the time. Contrasty? Check. Thanks!
Ok... now that implies you think you can get blurred wheels with a slow shutter and without a pan. Put a different way, when would you have a slow shutter speed and not pan at the same time?
EDIT:
WAIT A MINUTE. I think I get what you were implying. Ugh!!! Feel like my mind isn't working today. Its Friday!!!!
Ok... now that implies you think you can get blurred wheels with a slow shutter and without a pan. Put a different way, when would you have a slow shutter speed and not pan at the same time?
EDIT:
WAIT A MINUTE. I think I get what you were implying. Ugh!!! Feel like my mind isn't working today. Its Friday!!!!
It's ok. I didn't write it too well anyway. What I meant to say is "Are you saying you can get wheel blur with just a pan REGARDLESS of shutter speed?".
I really look forward to next week when the OP let's us all know how things went for him and to see the photos he posts .
I'm really looking forward to that post also. Right now we've seen a chick on a horse, a couple of dogs and a photo of OP that someone took, yet there's criticism of other's work. OP, if you knew NW Scounts portfolio you may be a little embarassed. We could all learn A LOT from him.
I saw NW Scout's trailer at Washougal last year and I was in awe, was bummed when over there nobody was home! I just wanted to shake his hand....
Do you have any "good" frozen spoke shots you can share?
You are missing my point completely, but here is one anyway.
Always remember, in photography, good is a relative term. What is good to one may be bad to another.
If you and your clients are happy with the image, thats all that matters.
I am totally with everyone that blurry tires are nice to have. My point is, for me its not crucial, and can easily be added later in post.
Hey guys. Long weekend for me. I roasted in the sun!!! Thought I'd stop by and post a couple pics. I'll post a bunch more in the next few days. I took thousands. What a great outing and learning experience for me.
Comments
Sounds like you have a good system. What is AV and TP though. I'm new ya know! You must be a Cannon user? Is AV aperture priority? Either way, sounds logical what you are doing. I set up a custom shooting bank and called it Racetrack. It's set up for trap focus at the moment. I will probably set up another bank or two just to bounce around and experiment.... all mourning. My afternoon shots should be pretty decent by then. I will come back and share my results with you guys. Please..... do pick em apart! You guys are great and I'm gonna learn a ton from ya's.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
..Oh ya, When in doubt - always throw a pic of a lady on a horse! nicely done!
I will reserve all other comments incase its your wife/sister or...!
Nikon D3 & D3s
2xSB-900 Speedlights
Tokina 12-24 f4, Nikon 50 f1.8, 28-70 f2.8,70-200 f2.8 VR, 1.7x TC , 200-400 f4 vrII
...more to come!
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I really have no clue about any of that. I just remember reading about the coupons when I joined. My trial expired on me and I have yet to renew. Sounds like EM has some cool stuff!!
I did dig deeper into EM settings after I posted about watermarking and saw where you could do it. I'm gonna play around with it for sure!
I'll find out about the referral credit. If and when I decide to join for real.... I'll bet there is a spot to enter the referral link. If not, I'll contact them first before I join so you get your credit.
That's good info. I would have been all over the map trying to get the right shutter speed. I guess I will start high as well and start coming down. I know I will have lots of throw aways! I'm gonna be a panning fool!! That's a good idea though. Start high and get lots of keepers FIRST and then start playing with shutter speeds. Thanks for that info!
What do ya think of the 80-400 for roadracing? It looked a little soft at the 400mm end.
How will you guarantee you get EVERY rider? How will you guarantee you get multiple angles? How will you guarantee you get every rider at every angle? Are you going to walk away with 70 shots of some people and 2 or 3 of most others?
This is why doing this is no where as easy or simple as most participants usually think it is.
Now you get home. You have to sort through all these photos. Throw away the bad ones. Now, how do you make it easy for the riders to find their shots? Because you don't want to throw up 2,000 photos into a gallery and tell them "good luck and thanks for looking!".
I'm a Canon guy. I have often considered the 100-400 lens that they have, but then again I also think of just getting a 300/4 or a 400/4. Ideally, two camera bodies, one with a 70-200/2.8, the other with a 400/4. But I can't justify that type of expense.
In all honesty though, do you really think a little soft on the 400mm end is a big deal? Look at what you think you are going to charge and ask yourself if that type of revenue can even justify a nicer lens.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I have been thinking A LOT about the uploading and I already knew that it's gonna be a TON of work and take days to do. I thought about making folders of each particular rider.... and sort them on the PC first and then upload one folder/rider at a time. I also thought about sorting by skill level..... beginner/street, intermediate, and then expert. I also thought about only uploading those who express desire to buy pics or show heavy interest. I will walk the paddock to find those who want them. I thought I would post my contact info on our club's forum too and have people contact me about pics..... and only then will I upload theirs. Some guys sort by corners but I think that's a bad way to do it. Either way I do it.... it's gonna take some serious time!
I like the fact that I am under NO PRESSURE to get good pics.... as far as expectations go. Of course I DO want to make some money but I like the fact that I can learn without worrying about anyone being pissed off about crappy photos. Less pressure equals less stress. Less stress equals better pics I think. I can relax and experiment.... and not go crazy with frustration if they aren't turning out! I think I will do fairly good for the first time and the D300S is an amazing camera. I'm learning a lot just from this thread and it's gonna help a lot.
I have not set any prices in stone yet. It will depend on the quality of the images. I have a lot to learn yet and I need some trial runs first!
My only recommendation, no matter how you shoot, is to shoot the faster shutter speed in the nice light. Weather thats the first part of the day or the last. When the light is good you wants to make sure the subject is sharp
While true; if you're shooting bikes one should allow for some wheel blur
Rags
I'll need to use a specific shutter speed to get wheel blur like torags stated... and that means I will have to slow it down some.
Be careful not to confuse relative terms, like faster, with absolute terms, like fast.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I understand why some people like it, and I understand why some people don't. For me, its all about light, composition and action. If the shot has all that, I wont even notice if the wheels are spinning or not.
Here is a shot I did last year. Think i shot it at around 1/1200
The wheels are pretty much froze, but thats fine with me. I honestly never even thought about wheel spin during or after shooting it.
If he was blurry, because of a slower shutter speed, this shot would have gone in the trash
Oh. And to keep things on topic, I shot this with a 400mm F4. GREAT lens for track work. I actually like it better than the 400mm 2.8
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Great shot!! I really like it. MX is a TOTALLY different thing though. Roadracing is ALL about speed and the pics should reflect that. Trust me, a roadracing shot(from the side) looks HORRIBLE if the wheels or spokes are frozen stiff.
Here's a shot of yours truly.... that is well done. It would look REALLY bad with frozen wheels. It's just not the same thing as MX.... and the (wheel)speeds are nowhere even close.
I try to shoot the lowest ss possible. Sometimes that's 8000; cause its midday & shooting f4 to blur background crowd (which never works enough for me) & still clipping colors.
The ss has a lot to do with how many moving parts are within the subject, in an effort to get subject separation
I've found a dirt bike going across a lateral plane can be shot at 350 and pan for separation, a car at 125-250 (& less). A race horse 800, a racing greyhound 1000-1200 & no panning (shallow dof)
Just my experience
Sure MX and road racing are different, but the aspects of a good photo are the same, no matter what you are shooting.
Speed can be shown many ways, and yes, a side view pan is one of them. The thing that makes this an OK shot is not the tire spin, its the blur of the background and the pavement.
Road race tires don't have tread and are smooth and black. It is very difficult to even see if they are spinning in most shots because there is very little to show the spin.
They don't have nobbies or spokes like dirt bikes that show motion much better.
I figured it was a given that in a pan shot that blurs the background that you would get tire spin. The tire spinning is just the result of pan, not the reason for it. A blurred background is what shows the speed, the tire spin is just a bonus to the technique.
I'm not sure if you have ever shot roadracing but TRUST me......... frozen spokes/wheels look REALLY REALLY bad no matter what your light or what action the pic has. From my understanding.... the blur of the pavement/background come from the pan and the wheel blur comes from the slower shutter speed. Is that not right? You're saying you can blur wheels with a pan?? That shot of me above was shot at 1/200.
On a side note... do you ever use trap focus when shooting races?
Why yes, I have shot road racing.
I have worked with many of the worlds top riders on advertising shoots at different tracks all around the country.
So yes, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on what makes a good shot when it comes to road racing
The blur of the background comes from the pan AND the slow shutter speed.
Set your camera at 1/800 and pan and see if the back ground blurs.
Its the combination of the two that gives you the effect. The slower the shutter speed + the faster the pan = the more the blur.
A similar effect comes from camera mounts or shooting car to bike (or bike to bike, or kart to bike works best)
This allows the use of a wide angle lens with the bike staying sharp and everything else blurring around it.
Just look around at really good race shots. Maybe 90% are 3/4 fronts. Why? Because that's about the coolest angle.
You see the bike way laid over, you see the riders eyes, it looks very aggressive and usually shows a little of the track in the background.
From that angle you almost never see the spokes and the tire is a flat smooth black so it is VERY hard to tell if its moving or frozen.
I shoot all Canon gear so no trap focus. I have heard good and bad about it though.
Spot focus can work well in a controlled setting where you know the action will be and can direct the rider. But on race or practice days servo tracking is the way to go. You never know where the action will be because the lines of the riders are changing so often.
When using the servo tracking, make sure you select a good contrasty spot on the bike for the focus to lock on to. This makes a HUGE difference in the % of sharps you will get.
You can't blur wheels without a pan!
A former sports shooter
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I wasn't saying you don't have a grasp... I was just curious if you shot roadracing. Regardless, of who shoots the pics.... frozen spokes look really bad 99% of the time IMO. Do you have any "good" frozen spoke shots you can share?
I agree on the 3/4 shots and that wheels don't play much factor in anything other than a side shot. I just can't stand frozen wheels on a side shot! haha
Someone had recommended gluing focus point to the helmet.... but obviously that won't work all the time. Contrasty? Check. Thanks!
...... meant "blur wheels with JUST a pan".
Ok... now that implies you think you can get blurred wheels with a slow shutter and without a pan. Put a different way, when would you have a slow shutter speed and not pan at the same time?
EDIT:
WAIT A MINUTE. I think I get what you were implying. Ugh!!! Feel like my mind isn't working today. Its Friday!!!!
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Artistically & Creatively Challenged
I'm really looking forward to that post also. Right now we've seen a chick on a horse, a couple of dogs and a photo of OP that someone took, yet there's criticism of other's work. OP, if you knew NW Scounts portfolio you may be a little embarassed. We could all learn A LOT from him.
I saw NW Scout's trailer at Washougal last year and I was in awe, was bummed when over there nobody was home! I just wanted to shake his hand....
You are missing my point completely, but here is one anyway.
Always remember, in photography, good is a relative term. What is good to one may be bad to another.
If you and your clients are happy with the image, thats all that matters.
I am totally with everyone that blurry tires are nice to have. My point is, for me its not crucial, and can easily be added later in post.