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Best camera & lens for $1700?
I just came home to an early Valentines gift from my husband....Canon 60D, 55-250mm lens, camera bag & SDHC 8GB card. He insisted I research to make sure he bought the best for the money he spent - $1700. February 26th I'm going to shoot my niece's wedding in Indiana. Her Mom will buy me an external flash too. This is all so much to think about. I'm used to using my Canon Power Shot 8.0!? I've been researching, studying, reading and re-reading many of the wedding posts. I've taken notes, made lists, checked out wedding books from the library. Reconfirmed with my Sister/niece that they really want me to do this. I'm elated!! I get sooo passionate about photography! My husband sees this and wanted me to have a better camera. I've taken pixs at many weddings as a friend but not as the main photographer. I realize that many of you out there suggest against this w/o having more experience but my niece does not have expert expectations and has very few requests about what pictures she would like. She's seen my pixs here on SmugMug and is delighted for me to do this for her. No, I'm not getting paid. I'll receive the new flash "kind of" as payment. My Mom has another Nikon camera that will be our backup. I am eager to hear your opinions on this particular "kit".... or to trade for something more suitable or better priced for what I'll get. I also noticed someone said something about the Canon loyalty program?
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I won't say anything about you photographing the wedding instead of an experienced professional, because I'm sure that with your appreciation for photography, you would KNOW whether or not your niece can afford an experienced pro. Hey, I was dirt poor when I got married too, and I've photographed plenty of weddings for best friends as well. So, no reason to debate whether or not she should hire a pro; that has already been decided. Of course if you show up to the wedding and she's spent $15,000 on other things, then I would say you've been duped, but again, I'm assuming that's not the case.
I will however say, absolutely, DO NOT go all the way to India to photograph a wedding with just one camera. Not even if you get a 1Ds mk3 for $1700, you still need a backup. So if you have any means of acquiring an additional camera, do it. Maybe another relative or friend at the wedding has a 50D, 60D, or 7D, whatever... Have a backup plan. This is not optional, this is an absolute requirement. :-)
Then, other than that, I would simply say, travel safely and get to know your camera like the back of your hand. You could have gotten a 7D for $1450, (wait, are you in the US?) but that would be without a lens and any other accessories of course. Anyways my point is, I'd rather know a 60D like the back of my hand, than have any other camera that is unfamiliar to me. The 60D is perfectly capable if you can master it, especially with the right lenses. Is the 55-250 the only lens you've got? You'll want something wider, and you'll also want something faster. A 17-50 range 2.8 zoom and a 50 1.4 prime or 85 1.8 prime shouldn't set you back more than $750, (again USD) which I would consider required for any photojournalism situation. Or, again, if any other friends or family have a lens etc. you could borrow, or have available as a backup, make it happen.
BTW, I just posted a more lengthy reply in the wedding forum here on Dgrin, you may want to hop on over because I wrote a lot of info about traveling with cameras, backup, etc.
(Edit: Now that I clicked post, I can see your location. Since you're here in the US, I would say that you probably got your money's worth, considering the lens, camera bag, and memory card. However, just for comparison, you could have got a 7D and a 17-50 2.8 Sigma for $1800 or $1900. If you're expecting to totally master your camera and one day shoot professionally on the side, I would say that a 7D is a better purchase than the 60D. However if you're a hobbyist who simply wants to travel with a camera and you really only need a DSLR with manual control and not any high-speed / geeky stuff, then the 60D will treat you well and leave you with money to spare for travel, or other things. :-)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Especially if the wedding is in Indiana
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It's up to you, you can keep the 60D or return it and get a 7D which is around $1300 at Adorama... The 60D is a very good cam capable of taking amazing images, like Matt said... I'm just saying that Matt's 7D + Sigma 18-50 is probably the better deal
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14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
You guys have me cracking up!
1. I've seen many posts on Sigma 17-70f2.8-4 and Tamron 17-50 2.8. A couple people say that they like using one of these as opposed to "changing" lenses during a wedding. Sort of an "all in one" lens. That sounds right up my alley right now. Possible? Wise?
2. The included lens is 18-135mm 3.5-5.6 (he bought an extra 55-250 mm 4-5.6 lens). The 3.5 seems to be pretty close to the 2.8 (tho I'm sure it's not). My question is, what difference is there between the two and is the final product that vastly different? I've read that it pretty essential to have at least a f/2.8 lens for low lighting. This reception is going to have 3 candles per table and tiny white lights as decoration. Sounds like very low lighting.
3. And yes, I'm leaning for the 7D for the very reasons you both posted. I would absolutely love to someday be able to do weddings professionally. I must admit I was surprised when I opened the camera and saw another DSLR. But after reading about it I see that it's kind of in between the SLR and the prosumer.
4. As soon as I get this all straight and have my designated camera in hand I know that my next step is to practice, practice, practice. I'll have 3 weeks.
5. My Mom also loves photography. I called and she has a Nikon D50 which we would use as a back up......hmmmm
Please keep teaching me ............
For $1600 BB has the same package including the 18-135mm kit lens. 60D + 18-135mm + 55-250mm (if this what your hubby bought it is a very nice package)
...a 60D with a 17-50 f2.8 Tamron/Sigma would be a better bet or a 60D with 15-85mm.
With the 18-135 included you have a good deal. The 60D is a great camera and I would not overthink getting the 7D. Rather look for that f2.8 glass.
In a place like the school you can connect with TONS of photographers in an area that you're traveling to, I do it all the time when I travel for weddings. An experienced professional would be willing to "tag along" and just shoot their own angle for $200-$300 or so. As long as you PROMISE not to freak out and ask them to take over. ;-)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Why?
Canon and Nikon don't mix. You want your backup to be compatible with all those fancy lenses you rented for a week before the wedding to practice with. I'm telling you right now, I shoot Nikon and my brother shoots Canon... we've tried switching cameras before and it SUCKS.
Rent, rent, rent, rent, rent if you have to.
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
--Re the advice to get familiar with the camera: YES!!!!! Unless you are going to treat the camera as a point and shoot, it will take you weeks of practice to get to the point where you can get the camera to do what you want without fumbling and making mistakes. I have been shooting with SLRs for decades, and when I got my most recent one, I was fumbling around for weeks, making incorrect changes and having to redo them.
--For now, forget about the 60D/7D argument. It's a distraction. Sure, the 7D is more capable. But for quite a while, the limiting factors will be your experience and expertise (in both shooting and postprocessing), lens quality as a distant second, and camera quality as a very distant third. The 60D is a very capable camera. An expert with a Rebel (less expensive than your 60D) will do much better than a novice with anything, no matter how expensive.
--Both of your lenses are slow. Your notes suggest that you don't understand f stops (another reason i would not shoot the wedding), but the math is simple. The f/stop label on the lens is the widest aperture the lens can have. (When it is two numbers, as with your lenses, that is because on those lenses, the maximum f stop decreases as the focal length increases.) "one stop" is a multiple of roughly 1.4 (square root of 2) and corresponds to halving or doubling the required light. An f/2.8 lens wide open requires half the light of an f/4 lens. Most people shooting at a wedding would want something faster than you have. On the other hand, as you open the aperture, depth of field decreases, and by 2.8, you don't have much room for error if you are close to the subject. Focus on the wrong part of the face, and the picture looks blurry. Still, you probably will want a faster lens. One very cheap alternative (which I don't own) is the 50mm f/1.8. I shoot events primarily with a 28-75 f/2.8, switching to a 70-200 for tight head shots, and usually shoot at around f/4.5 for candids, but that is using a flash for almost everything.
--You are going to have to learn to use flash if the event is indoors. At the very least, that means a flash with a bounce head (swivels and turns up), a diffuser, and a bounce card. That also takes time.
My suggestion: have them hire a pro and volunteer to be the second photographer. then you don't have to worry, and if you get even a couple of really nice shots, everyone--including you--will be very happy.
For peace of mind at the wedding, keep the camera on automatic and leave the 55-250 in the bag. Good luck.
Roak
<== Mighty Murphy, the wonder Bouv!
Stay calm, and practice.
Get the flash now and practice with it.
Another thing you may need is a modifier for the flash to diffuse the light.
Then you need to find out who your friends are, and draft them to practice on.
Look online and get a few poses that you think look good and place your friends in a similar setting. (church)
Get out a couple of times, get the feel for the camera, and buy a couple more cards.
If you shoot in RAW, and for this you should, it may save you some headaches down the line,
you're going to find that 8G isn't a whole lot of space for shooting an event.
I buy all my cards from newegg.com
They ship fast, and have good prices.
Good luck, and post some shots afterwords.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
This is a great suggestion. Do not worry too much about the lenses that came with the kit. They are fine and will serve you well as you learn.
...rent the high-end lenses like the 17-55f2.8 or 70-200 f4L and get some practice with them.
My answers:
1. The Tamron 17-50 2.8 is a good lens; it's actually the one I plan on getting next. It has a fast 2.8 aperture and is wide enough. I have no problem recommending it. However, I don't think that will be long enough for most shots; I think it would be a great setup to have the Tamron on one body and a 70-200 or a 100 f2 on another body.
2. 3.5 is pretty close to 2.8, and no, the final product will not be vastly different. 2.8 just lets in a little more light than 3.5, while 3.5 lets in much more light than 5.6 (the higher the number, the less light gets through. I wouldn't use the 18-135 for the wedding; that 5.6 end will not let in enough light. Maybe buying/renting a 70-200 would do it? There's a 70-200 f4 and a 70-200 2.8 ($650 and $1200 respectively, new in box, that's an estimate). Or you could get a 100 f2 used for $300-$350.
And yes, your wedding sounds like VERY low light.
3. If you're gonna get a 7D before this wedding then do it now. You need maximum time to get used to the camera you'll be using. Or, you can use the 60D for the wedding, and then sell it and get a 7D.
4. Yep!
5. I wouldn't mix Canon and Nikon. The lenses don't mix, and I just don't think it's a good idea. I'd rent a second body from a store in the town where the wedding is.
Oh, and DO read that book by Scott Kelby. And yes, start practicing with the flash as soon as possible.
It does take time to get good results from a DSLR and learn how to get the best out of any lenses. Renting a super sounding lens that you have never used before sounds like a bad idea to me.
I think the best setup would be: 7D with Tamron 17-50 2.8, plus rent a 7D and buy an 85 1.8 or a 100 2.0 to put on it. Or, if she keeps the 60D, then get the same lenses I mentioned and rent another 60D. You should probably rent the same model you're using because you'll be familiar with the controls.
Yes, but I assume candles plus some ambient lighting, not candles only. When it is candles only folks won't be able to see their food even, pretty grim. On the other stuff you are going well over budget. I like the idea, but 60D is a good camera and 18-135 an ok lens and will give more variety than using a prime. Plus the OP has more time to get familiar.
Honestly, if you're set on doing this, I would say get the best camera you can afford and at least the Tamron 17-50 2.8 and a flash. You'll be better suited with a fast (wide aperture) lens than a long zoom. You're not going to be able to shoot from the back of the church and get tight shots, but as a relative, you'll have more leeway in a strict church to move around and come closer. Many times, church rules prevent photographer's movement and use of flash so you could pull the family card and just do it.
Go to the rehearsal to see how things will go. Look at wedding galleries to see what the important shots are (ring exchange, first kiss, etc.). Ask the family what group shots they want. Pay attention at the reception and capture the key moments.
No offense meant, but if they don't want a professional, then their expecations are not very high and will probably be thrilled with what you do. That DOESN'T mean a paying client will be thrilled with what you can do with what you have. Take this opportunity, have fun with it, and if you want to take it further, take it seriously and put effort into it.
GOOD LUCK!!!
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As far as enjoying the wedding with the family ....... that IS how I enjoy the wedding with the family. It's what I do at every wedding I go to. Take pixs. I tend to be very social. You get to talk to everyone, joke around with them and be a part of almost everything that goes on. Meet the family the best friends ...... thus, knowing the "better" shots of people. I just love it!
"the best camera you can afford and at least the Tamron 17-50 2.8 and a flash" - This is exactly what many others have said.
But, because I'm starting I've read about this Canon 50mm 1.8 prime lens. Guys, my gut feeling says this would be a safe (for me) useful lens for me to have (and use for this particular wedding). I am going to order the Tamron 17-50 2.8 and the Sigma 530 DG Super Electronic Flash ..... the 7D (my husband insist I get this) but I really want the 60D b/c of the swivel LCD and my chronic bad knees fr/lyme disease. I have one now and it is sooooo handy when getting a low down shot, and many others for that matter.
I will shoot RAW like suggested. Will one 16GB be sufficient? I'd rather have just "one" card as opposed to two different. Won't have to change them amongst all else I'll be doing.
Minister says no flash only during ceremony. He's very willing to work with me on everything. A blessing for me I realize.
I've read and re-read and copied and listed many different lists of positions during ceremony, shots to take (among my own desired ones I have gleaned from many different sites). My Sister will rent another camera line up like the one I am purchasing. I will be there one week prior so I'll be able practice in the church AND at the reception hall.
I am going to the rehearsal and rehearsal dinner - PrAcTiCe time.
As all of you well know there are a multitude of lists and do's and don'ts. I've been studying and will continue to do so while practicing too.
I realize that you all have lives and that I'm another "pop up" in this forum - but one who shares your passion of photography. So I really thank you for your suggestions. Those soft, medium and "tough love" comments. I need them all. I appreciate them all. That's why I'm here and asking. I take all of your comments seriously and weigh them along with all my research. You are indispensable in my journey. And to complete this venture I will post some shots so I can further learn from you.
Here is one I shot with the 60D and the 50mm 1.8 (nifty fifty)
I love that your husband is so committed to your getting "the best", but the camera body is the lesser significant part of the photographic equation in this case. Either the 7D or the 60D will do and both can produce extremely similar images. Lighting and lenses are far more important to achieving the most desirable result, assuming you have the knowledge to use them properly.
For the ceremony, since flash is not allowed, I do suggest the Canon EF 50mm, f1.4 USM over the EF 50mm, f1.8. The f1.8 version too often cannot accurately focus. The f1.4 is much better in this regard, but I suggest using it at f1.8 to f2.2 during the ceremony. It is a little soft due to halation at f1.4. (Don't worry about what halation is at this point.)
For those times when you can use the flash, do use one of the light modifiers that I linked to in your other thread. The "scoop" modifier is the most universally usable of those I linked.
I too recommend several cards. In the wintertime static electricity can destroy a memory card in an instant. It's best not to put too many "eggs in one basket" and multiple cards hedges against a complete loss due to a single card failure.
No flash during the ceremony is pretty typical. Do practice in a church, any church, that has poor lighting, just so you get a feel for handling the camera in poor lighting conditions. Practice your best shooting stance, which should be very similar to a hunter's shooting stance. Camera shake can destroy images as easily as subject motion. It's not too unusual to need to use ISO 800-1600 in poor lighting without flash. Practice changing the ISO on your camera until you can do it with little thought.
Generally you can use flash for the processional and before, and again starting with the recessional. Verify this with the officiant.
Check with the officiant, if the ceremony is in their church, to know where most photographers shoot from. Plan your shots in advance so that you can move to the proper location as needed. If the ceremony is not in a church the best person to check with is the person helping to organize the event.
When you can use flash consider ISO 400-800. I don't use ISO 100 or ISO 200 too much just because it eats up batteries so quickly and takes too long for the flash to recycle. Formals of the bride alone and the bride and groom may require ISO 200 however so just plan on extra battery usage and slower recycling for those formals. For other formals, including the whole family etc., a higher ISO is generally fine because there generally isn't a need for large prints.
Several sets of rechargeable batteries are a must.
Yes, the wedding rehearsal is also "your" rehearsal. Take plenty of shots from the intended shooting locations and review later for distractive backgrounds, reflective backgrounds, vantage and angle, etc.
Having your sister rent a similar/identical system is an excellent idea. Verify the proper operation of the rental equipment so you can rely on it for the backup. (I once had 3 film cameras fail at the same wedding. The fourth camera was my trusty Canon AE1 Program and it worked like a champ.)
I'm glad to see you taking this so seriously. We really are here to help.
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How will you process the RAW files? Lightroom, Bridge, Photomechanic, Aperture??? You might want to rethink that if you have no idea what I just said.
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