Can any other brand beat Canon L

oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
edited April 19, 2011 in Cameras
Hi all
i need to invest in a wide angle lens preferrably well down the f stops as i photograph quite a few classic cars. I get dizzy looking at Canon prices and have seen many peoples opinions on wide glass.
The big question? Is there any brand out there that meets canon L series results at a lower price even if i have to get a special fitting for my 5d mk2.

Regards
Patrick.:D
«13

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,129 moderator
    edited April 6, 2011
    How wide do you need to go?

    What other qualities do you need? Autofocus? Auto aperture? ...?

    The more you tell us about your needs the better we can help find a solution.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • catspawcatspaw Registered Users Posts: 1,292 Major grins
    edited April 6, 2011
    Nikon 14-24 is supposedly enough for some canon users to use a convertor. ;)
    //Leah
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 6, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    How wide do you need to go?

    What other qualities do you need? Autofocus? Auto aperture? ...?

    The more you tell us about your needs the better we can help find a solution.

    Autofocus would be a bonus but not that important as i am learning to use manual more often now.
    Auto apeture is a thing i cannot quite answer as i dont know how this will effect my working day as regards time spent on each shoot.
    All i was wondering was there a lens out there well down the stops that can match canon L series lens for output quality. Basically i will be shooting inside these classic cars and i will need a wide lens with some zoom. I have the canon nifty fifty 1.8 and am very happy with it but i am getting fed up of having to stand back to take a photo so much i have to look from the outside in to get a photo of the inside of a car.
    Hope this helps. Thanks Ziggy53

    Reagaeds
    Patrick:D
  • WarpedWarped Registered Users Posts: 98 Big grins
    edited April 6, 2011
    You had to go and throw in "even if i have to get a special fitting for my 5d mk2." didn't you :p

    Without that proviso, the answer to "Can any other brand beat Canon L" would have been Yes - HEAPS!!

    Unsurprisingly, Canon L glass on Canon equipment is pretty hard to beat, but there are options out there like Sigma's EX range with nice APO glass and other after market lens makers.

    Without the Canon proviso - Leica, Zeiss, Hasselblad, Mamiya ..... LOTS of very nice glass to compete with L stuff.

    That said, If manual focus isn't an issue for you look at the Zeiss Distagon range as they do make a ZE mount range for Canon, I reckon a Distagon T* 3.5/18mm would do a very nice job.

    http://reviews.photographyreview.com/blog/zeiss-zf-lenses-%E2%80%94-high-performance-for-nikon-and-canon

    Unsure on current pricing though????
    If at first you don't succeed - maybe sky diving isn't for you.
    www.warped-photography.com
  • OverfocusedOverfocused Registered Users Posts: 1,068 Major grins
    edited April 6, 2011
    The Canon 50mm F1.4 is extremely sharp and matches L quality IQ in my experience at ~F2.8 or smaller. With more open apertures it has a tad of magenta fringing with very high contrast areas that L lenses don't have. Other than that, I use it on a MKII myself and it is s-h-a-r-p from edge to edge, vibrant, and has great contrast equal to any L lens I've used. Maybe I got a really good pick from the bunch, but it's really damn good for $350! If you're shooting still objects, you could easily stitch a panned shot together. I do it all the time cause the IQ has been worth it for landscapes among other things :)
    www.overfocused.com
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,129 moderator
    edited April 6, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Autofocus would be a bonus but not that important as i am learning to use manual more often now.
    Auto apeture is a thing i cannot quite answer as i dont know how this will effect my working day as regards time spent on each shoot.
    All i was wondering was there a lens out there well down the stops that can match canon L series lens for output quality. Basically i will be shooting inside these classic cars and i will need a wide lens with some zoom. I have the canon nifty fifty 1.8 and am very happy with it but i am getting fed up of having to stand back to take a photo so much i have to look from the outside in to get a photo of the inside of a car.
    Hope this helps. Thanks Ziggy53

    Reagaeds
    Patrick:D

    Pentax made some very nice prime focus lenses long ago and they can have very good image quality for their price. It's not easy to use them but it is possible. You do need a fairly inexpensive adapter and it's best to purchase the adapter with a "focus confirmation" chip.

    The particular lens of note might be the screwmount/M42 version of the Pentax SMC Takumar 28mm, f3.5. (The SMC is very important in this case.) While it's not up to Canon "L" quality wide open if you stop it down a bit it will reward the effort.

    An adapter that should work is:

    http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Dandelion-Confirmation-cameras/dp/B003GE490E/ref=pd_cp_e_3

    With that lens and adapter you would use the following method to take a shot:
    Open the lens aperture to f3.5
    Compose the frame.
    Focus manually but with confirmation to indicate prime focus.
    Set the desired aperture on the lens using the aperture ring.
    Compose again using the current aperture setting and take the shot.

    While this seems like a lot of steps it's really not so bad once you become used to the process.

    KEH currently has several of these lenses and the EX+ copy is available for less than $120USD.

    This should link to some image examples (not mine):

    http://www.pbase.com/cameras/pentax/28_35_smc_takumar
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    Thanks for quick replys but due to time difference i had to get some sleep.
    I have a 17-85 kit lens on my 40 d and if i take into consideration the crop factor at 17mm would come close to the lens Ziggy53 recommended. Unfortunatly even that lens would not be wide enough because i still have to hold my lens well back from close objects inside these cars to get some focus. I dont mean to be a pain in the neck but i have no choice but to go wider. I took some pictures at a vintage car quiz night for the Breffni vintage club in Co Cavan and i got a shock with my nifty fifty for the distance i had to stand back from a 4 person full body shot.
    It looks like i am heading down the road of deep pocket glass to achieve good pictures for Glossy magazine work.
    I will have to keep looking, i am afraid as money is tight here in Ireland at the moment and i wont make a big compromise on image quality.
    Thanks for your replies guys and i will tread that weary road of treads until i find something that matches my needs.
    Regards
    Patrick.:D
  • WarpedWarped Registered Users Posts: 98 Big grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    If $$ are a real issue, take a look at things like Samyang or the older Russian stuff like Zenitar, Helois, Arsat, Kiev .....etc - there's some amazing old glass and very cheap prices, but because they're old and fully manual no one wants them anymore.

    Have a look here for some very cheap prices for Canon mount lens from manufacturers you've most likely never heard of - http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/canon_cameras_lenses.htm

    But ..... they'll be great for the $$ side of things, but not up there with the L lens quality in most cases ....... so you really need to weigh up budget Vs quality. That said, some of those lenses will do an amazing job with a little patience learning how to get the best from them
    If at first you don't succeed - maybe sky diving isn't for you.
    www.warped-photography.com
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    Thanks warped for your responce.
    I have to have near the quality of an L lens due to upping the quality of my work. I hit a new level of colours and details when i moved from the Canon 40D with the kit lens to my 5D mkll. I dont want to go back in quality. Dont get me wrong i will never sell my 40D as it was my first dslr and even now i will put the nifty fifty lens on to it and see a big change.
    Unfortunatly you get what you pay for in this world and that is that.
    I will have to shell out as i presume that the wider you go the deeper into your pocket you go aswell, so he ho of to the bank i go.
    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • tkePhotographytkePhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    How about a Samyang 14mm f/2.8? I have heard nothing but good things about this lens and will probably purchase it later this year.

    http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/532-samyang14f28eosff
    Tim

    http://www.tkephotography.com
  • mercphotomercphoto Registered Users Posts: 4,550 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    I was going to suggest the Canon 17-40/4L to you, a great lens that's not too hard on the bank account, but it seems you need to go wider still. The 10-22 EF-S is a great lens but its only downfall is it will only work on the 1.6 crop factor bodies. But yes, to get results you will have to spend the money. There is a reason why good glass costs more. Hopefully you can make that glass pay for itself though.
    Bill Jurasz - Mercury Photography - Cedar Park, TX
    A former sports shooter
    Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
    My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
  • tjstridertjstrider Registered Users Posts: 172 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    you could save through using the mark 1 of the 16-35 from canon...
    5D2 + 50D | Canon EF-s 10-22mm F/3.5-4.5 USM | 70-200mm f/2.8L | 50mm 1.8, 580EXII
    http://stridephoto.carbonmade.com
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    tkePhotography wrote: »
    How about a Samyang 14mm f/2.8? I have heard nothing but good things about this lens and will probably purchase it later this year.

    http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/532-samyang14f28eosff

    I think you have found my lens. Going through some reviews came up with quite a bit of distortion but this can be fixed with software at the expence of having some of the framed picture cropped. It is definatly in my price range and this seems to be the way to go for now. I will get in contact with some owners and if i am happy its off to the camera shop with a shallow pocket. Thanks again.

    Rgards
    Patrick:D
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    tjstrider wrote: »
    you could save through using the mark 1 of the 16-35 from canon...

    Never heard of it. What has this lens got to offer?

    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • tkePhotographytkePhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    I think you have found my lens. Going through some reviews came up with quite a bit of distortion but this can be fixed with software at the expence of having some of the framed picture cropped. It is definatly in my price range and this seems to be the way to go for now. I will get in contact with some owners and if i am happy its off to the camera shop with a shallow pocket. Thanks again.

    Rgards
    Patrick:D

    Yeah, the distortion with this lens is going to be pretty interesting in some cases and a pain in other cases. A lot of people recommend PT Lens to correct the distortion.
    Tim

    http://www.tkephotography.com
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2011
    Already have pt lens and it does a great job.:D
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Never heard of it. What has this lens got to offer?

    Regards
    Patrick:D
    Unfortunately the 16-35 L mk1 is a softie. Fine for photojournalism at ~10-12 megapixels, but NOT a very good investment for landscapes at 21+ megapixels.

    The Canon 17-40 is quite sharp and relatively affordable, if you test your copy upon receiving it you have a good chance of getting a great one.

    However, if you'd TRULY like to maintain incredible quality without totally breaking the bank, (relatively speaking) ...consider the newer versions of the Zeiss 21mm and 18mm manual focus primes. yes, they'll cost $1300-$1600, but that's really not much for one of 35mm landscape photography's greatest feats of sharpness and image quality engineering. By comparison, the Canon 16-35 mk2 L costs even more and still isn't as sharp in the extreme corners.

    On a super budget, and going super-wide, the Tokina 11-16 2.8, a crop sensor lens, is actually quite stellar at 16mm on full-frame cameras. The last ten pixels of the extreme corners don't get fully sharp, but evenly across the entire frame there is some amazing sharpness to be had, let me tell you! Plus, on a crop sensor it makes a GREAT fast-action sports ultra-wide, for when the frame rate of the 5D mk2 just won't cut it. If you ever shoot that type of stuff. Maybe they'll make an 8 FPS 5D mk3 soon, but I doubt it. So for now, for versatility's sake I do strongly recommend considering the Tokina 11-16 2.8 DX...

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    Thanks for your advice. You seem to have some experience with these lenses. I have alot of thinking to do. I knew i was going to have to shell out. I always believed you got what you paid for but this rule is not recessarily true.
    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • JohnRogJohnRog Registered Users Posts: 173 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    I definitely don't think it beats the canon L glass, but the tamron 11-18 is decent for the money... here is a link to lots of image samples from them...
    http://www.pixel-peeper.com/lenses/?lens=918
    I have one that works well when I need it (almost never because I mostly shoot people) I was thinking about selling it if you're interested...

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    Well it looks like its a toss up between the Tameron and the Tonika.
    I want to keep this new lens on my 5D mkll if possible to get bigger prints.
    I know each have their strenghts and weaknesses but which one will win out for sheer quality of big Prints?

    Thanks guys now we are narrowint things down to a level that i can work with.

    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • tkePhotographytkePhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    The Tokina is going to end up being basically a prime lens on a 5DMKII - I can get decent results from 14-16mm. If you are going that route, I still recommend the Samyang/Rokinon 14mm which is a decent savings over the Tokina.
    Tim

    http://www.tkephotography.com
  • swintonphotoswintonphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,664 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    Tokina is a great budget option.
    Jonathan
    http://www.jonathanswinton.com
    http://www.swintoncounseling.com
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    swintonphoto wrote: »
    Tokina is a great budget option.

    Tonika keeps coming up here on this tread so i guess it has quite a few fans around here. I must find a link to some of its work with the canon 5d mkll. Thanks for all of your help guys. I hope that this lens stands up to the big prints i will need to do.
    Mabey i am asking too much for too little but time will tell.

    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • OverfocusedOverfocused Registered Users Posts: 1,068 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Tonika keeps coming up here on this tread so i guess it has quite a few fans around here. I must find a link to some of its work with the canon 5d mkll. Thanks for all of your help guys. I hope that this lens stands up to the big prints i will need to do.
    Mabey i am asking too much for too little but time will tell.

    Regards
    Patrick:D


    How big?
    www.overfocused.com
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    Very large prints around 6 feet by 4 feet.
    Regards
    Patrick:D
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Very large prints around 6 feet by 4 feet.
    Regards
    Patrick:D

    eek7.gifD

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • OverfocusedOverfocused Registered Users Posts: 1,068 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Very large prints around 6 feet by 4 feet.
    Regards
    Patrick:D


    Use primes. The 50mm F1.4 I suggested will do the job, especially at F2.8 or smaller until the diffraction limits of the MKII (F10.8 to be exact) Corner sharpness in almost any zoom will disappoint you and will be very noticeable in that large of a print, especially if it's art that people will be analyzing closely. The one zoom I know that has amazing edge to edge sharpness is the Canon 70-200 F4/L @ F/4-F/10. You can grab a non IS version used for ~$500-600. The best thing for you would actually be to pan-stitch images and maybe get a 30-50MP image for that print rather than 21. It's really easy to do in PS and I've got quite a few images (not just panorama) that are stitched together 35MP+


    I wish I had customers that wanted that big of a print for art cause I got plenty of gigantic images just sitting here on my hard drive... lol
    www.overfocused.com
  • billythekbillythek Registered Users Posts: 104 Major grins
    edited April 8, 2011
    tkePhotography wrote: »
    How about a Samyang 14mm f/2.8? I have heard nothing but good things about this lens and will probably purchase it later this year.

    http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/532-samyang14f28eosff

    It has some nasty distortion issues. But other than that, looks interesting.
    - Bill
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited April 9, 2011
    Canon makes no lenses wider than 16mm, unless you want to go fish. The Tamron and the Tokina (yes, Tokina :D) are crop lenses and will show some vignetting at the wide end. I'd recommend the Canon 17-40L if you don't mind f4, it's just 1mm more than the widest from Canon.
  • kdogkdog Administrators Posts: 11,681 moderator
    edited April 9, 2011
    ThatCanonGuy wrote: »
    Canon makes no lenses wider than 16mm, unless you want to go fish.
    Not true. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/519474-USA/Canon_2045B002_Super_Wide_Angle_EF.html
    Moderator of Landscapes forum
    Link to my Smugmug site
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