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Get a Sneak Peek at SmugMug's new design!

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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2011
    Precisely. I'm not hearing or seeing any evidence for a good reason to shrink the thumbs under any normal conditions, except mobile or very small devices...

    Well, I'm guessing some like these smaller thumbs. Otherwise why introduce them at all unless for mobile devices? And thats ok for their sites. But for those of us who have been waiting patiently for larger thumbs or more thumbnail options, for the love of God man, don't subject us to smaller thumbs instead. And then dwarf the primary image with these little buggers dominating the page. :yikes

    I'd like some way to define the minimum size of both my thumbs and primary image (unless on a mobile device). And I know all the excuses as to why not. I've heard it all before in the software, web dev buisness I work in. You have to program to the lowest common denominator - no child left behind, blah, blah, blah. So everyone else (the majority) get screwed because some guy in the antartic is still on dialup using his 486 and 800x600 monitor. Well, you know what? I would like the ability to set some minimum standards, then beyond that to say so what? For those folks on ancient equipment they can scroll while viewing my gallery. And a 150px+ thumbnail won't kill them. They will live. I'd like that design freedom of choice.

    Derek
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    Erick LErick L Registered Users Posts: 355 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2011
    I prefer small thumbs on any resolution. It's the first time I ever see large thumbnails in my galleries (new version on FF4, 1680x1050). Chrome still displays small thumbs.
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2011
    Erick L wrote: »
    I prefer small thumbs on any resolution. It's the first time I ever see large thumbnails in my galleries (new version on FF4, 1680x1050). Chrome still displays small thumbs.

    I think this is why it makes sense to allow at least a few choices for the user. We have multiple choices already for the primary image. Some like to show the largest image possible while others like a smaller primary image. So we can set that. Having some thumb size options will really opens up creative flexibility.
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    albombayalbombay Registered Users Posts: 1 Beginner grinner
    edited July 11, 2011
    I like it! Much cleaner, more modern. Cant customize yet so not sure how that will work, but I'm looking forward to the actual rollout. You may have mentioned somewhere in here when that will be, but I missed it. Any dates in mind?
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    AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,011 Major grins
    edited July 11, 2011
    albombay wrote: »
    ... Cant customize yet so not sure how that will work,...
    Using WebDev you can customize to your hearts content. Add html and CSS.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
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    Erick LErick L Registered Users Posts: 355 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    To add to my last post, I don't see large thumbs on a 1920*1080px monitor, in FF or Chrome.

    More problems...

    1- When uploading, I can only choose between "this gallery" or "new gallery".
    2- The info bubble is opaque. There's no way to see the thumbs underneath.
    3- Too many clicks are required to see a larger image.
    4- The lightbox doesn't say how many images are in the gallery (ex: 4 of 34)

    SM wants a cleaner look and less graphic elements, but this is the old version which takes one line and has direct links to choose year (or months once you choose a year):

    old-1-O.jpg

    The new version has everything bunched together and needs three lines and adds unnecessary text and icons:

    clutter-O.jpg
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Erick L wrote: »
    To add to my last post, I don't see large thumbs on a 1920*1080px monitor, in FF or Chrome.

    More problems...

    1- When uploading, I can only choose between "this gallery" or "new gallery".
    2- The info bubble is opaque. There's no way to see the thumbs underneath.
    3- Too many clicks are required to see a larger image.
    4- The lightbox doesn't say how many images are in the gallery (ex: 4 of 34)

    SM wants a cleaner look and less graphic elements, but this is the old version which takes one line and has direct links to choose year (or months once you choose a year):

    old-1-O.jpg

    The new version has everything bunched together and needs three lines and adds unnecessary text and icons:

    clutter-O.jpg

    Yeah, I agree three lines are overkill, especially when trying to streamline things. I do like the new look better here in terms of style/color. However the big 'Results for Date Range' is implicit, redundant and unnecessary. The rest can be placed on one line resulting in a leaner/cleaner look with less being more.

    Derek
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    onethumbonethumb Administrators Posts: 1,269 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Updated the FAQ with more info about thumbnails.
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    onethumb wrote: »
    Updated the FAQ with more info about thumbnails.

    Cool, thanks for the update!
    Q. I like small thumbs! Hey, I like big thumbs!
    A. Clearly a heated topic. We don't have a solution yet, but our current thinking is that the SmugMug default view will continue to auto-pick, with some important improvements, the size of your thumbs, but that it can easily be overridden with customization including simply selecting a Theme.

    What I'm hearing is that it will be customizable. That would be a big step forward for everyone in terms of design flexibility. thumb.gif

    One recommendation with this is that thumbnail sizes could vary based on page 'type.' For example the higher level galleries/categories page could use larger thumbs than the individual galleries themselves. Like this:


    WideRange-X3.jpg


    Currently this is my single biggest dislike of my SM site and I have no way to change it. The thumbs downsize to a miniscule 100px even when there is plenty of room for them to go larger = anemic, impotent looking:


    GalleriesOldSM-X3.jpg


    Derek
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    onethumb wrote: »
    (From "Get a Sneak Peek at SmugMug's new design!" thread)

    FAQ:
    Q. What about HTML in gallery descriptions?
    A. It's back! You have full HTML control once more in your gallery descriptions.
    I don't have the same control as previously - the display of my HTML pages is seriously corrupted! Is the new design respecting site-wide CSS? Are all HTML settings within the gallery description being interpreted as previously, or is only a limited subset now being respected?

    Are you still considering the possibility of an HTML-only page style, or does restoration of HTML control in SmugMug gallery descriptions signal you are changing your mind about this?
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    AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,011 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    I don't have the same control as previously - the display of my HTML pages is seriously corrupted! Is the new design respecting site-wide CSS? Are all HTML settings within the gallery description being interpreted as previously, or is only a limited subset now being respected?
    None of your CSS is active for Smugmug style galleries. This test is only for Smugmug style galleries. If your
    html galleries were a different style they would work.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Allen wrote: »
    None of your CSS is active.
    Just mine, or everyone's?

    P.S. I've answered my own question! But not all HTML is active for me.
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    denisegoldbergdenisegoldberg Administrators Posts: 14,242 moderator
    edited July 12, 2011
    Just mine, or everyone's?
    Everyone's.
    The preview doesn't use our customizations - the CSS isn't active for anyone. It is meant to be a preview of the new style.

    --- Denise
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    AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,011 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Just mine, or everyone's?

    P.S. I've answered my own question!
    The cookie that was set only applies to Smugmug style galleries.
    I think, at least everything else works.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Allen wrote: »
    The cookie that was set only applies to Smugmug style galleries.
    I think, at least everything else works.
    Yes, but not all HTML in gallery descriptions for my SmugMug-style galleries is active.
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    AllenAllen Registered Users Posts: 10,011 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Yes, but not all HTML in gallery descriptions for my SmugMug-style galleries is active.
    Most of mine is still active in the description. Just not formatted as I had the html doing.
    Al - Just a volunteer here having fun
    My Website index | My Blog
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    Allen wrote: »
    Most of mine is still active in the description. Just not formatted as I had the html doing.
    They've purposely made it (for now) so that your site-wide-CSS is not active when the new gallery style is active. That means that any site-wide-CSS that controls your gallery descriptions isn't active.

    I think what they're planning eventually is that you'll have to move/convert existing site-wide-CSS over to the new system when you want to switch to the new styles and you'll be able to work on that and preview it in a sandbox area (that only you see) until you're ready to go public with it. This makes some sense because existing CSS that modifies the old gallery style will not work the same on the new style so you start out with no site-wide-customization with the new gallery styles and you decide what to move over to the new style. They might migrate some things automatically or not - they haven't said. But, for now, it's initially empty on the new styles.

    Smugmug still hasn't said what the plan is for gallery descriptions with custom HTML yet, but it is promising that custom HTML isn't stripped out of version two of the new gallery style like it was out of version one.
    --John
    HomepagePopular
    JFriend's javascript customizationsSecrets for getting fast answers on Dgrin
    Always include a link to your site when posting a question
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    WinsomeWorksWinsomeWorks Registered Users Posts: 1,935 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    In the new style, a way to mix & match gallery theme elements smoothly
    I'm not able to read the last part of your text, Derek. For some reason when you include screenshots, some of your text goes missing towards the end. I fugred it out though. But anyway, I looked at the new FAQs & see this new statement about Thumbs that you quoted: "....it can easily be overridden with customization including simply selecting a Theme.." I'm not sure exactly what this means. I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means... i.e: It would be a real shame if thumb size were tied to a theme, so that (for instance) you couldn't use the Blue theme unless you also wanted the small thumbs that come with it. Also, larger & much more space-filling thumbnail displays on cats & sub-cats have already been promised/planned, according to UserVoice. Having big thumbs there shouldn't change or fluctuate with gallery thumb size.

    So... a long time ago in this thread (not sure I can wade through to find it) I suggested something about themes for the new design that I feel is very very important and would solve a lot of design problems or flaws with what we have currently. Here's the suggestion: Have a bunch of themes available that are based on such things as font styles & boldening or italics or other design elements. Perhaps some would be ornamental, and/or keep those themes we have now or something very close in actual design. But here's the clincher: Make these various themes or design choices / elements work with any Hex Color someone wants to choose as their background, or with a bunch of those ornamental backgrounds and any new ones you introduce. Believe it or not, we are still pretty limited in colors... there aren't nearly enough pastels, no purples, lavenders, a small range of greens, etc. With colors not tied to design elements & offering Hex colors, we'd have much more freedom without bollixing up our site.

    Here's where the thumbnail issue comes in: Don't tie such things as thumbnail-size choice to certain colors or certain themes in any way. Instead, these various choices should all be interchangeable so as to allow tons of capability that we don't have now without all kinds of tricks. It would help the site look so much cleaner and much less finicky with certain browsers & screens to have these choices that simply work, but then be able to mix them with any color background we want. These are some choices or choice sets that come to mind (some I already mentioned above):

    1. Thumbnail size and shape in the gallery
    2. Font size / type / boldness / italicizing
    3. Main photo border (you could offer a drop shadow theme or white frame, etc.)
    4. Design elements... i.e. if you have a Victorian grunge sorta theme, it may have the little swirls that are typical to that style
    5.. Other folks... feel free to list other ideas(but I realize we can't go too hog-wild here)

    I'm not sure I'm making myself understood, as this is difficult to explain. So, example: I could mix and match the above theme choices with just about any color or background I want. Say I chose the Hex Color fuchsia for my background. Now I'd choose #1, a thumbnail size. Next I'd choose #2, a Font size (maybe just for captions & titles) & decide whether it should be boldened & what type of font it should be, & what color. Next I'd choose #3, a main photo border. Next, I'd decide to skip the additional design elements for this gallery. All those items would work together & I've got a gallery that works in all different browsers & I don't need to go into Adv. Customization to do it. With a bit of revamping, SmugMug could keep some of those great themes they came out with recently & just disconnect the limitations from each... instead make the theme stand on its own & the customer chooses elements. We could avoid so many glitches & the entire site should run faster too.

    If anyone still doesn't understand what I'm proposing, here's a few ways it would be different from what we have now:

    1. I really like the "Sand" theme & would use it a lot, perhaps even site-wide. It has large thumbs. But then I'm stuck with its huge gallery titles & small black captions. With my idea, "Sand" would simply be the background theme & perhaps include some borders. I'd be able to change the other important stuff without Adv. Customizing, just by choosing other elements such as are listed above, like font size.

    2. I like the Khaki theme too, but rarely use it because it fills a gallery page with tiny thumbs (when stretchy) just like some of the old non-stretchy themes. The color is great, but then I'm stuck with the thumb issue.

    3. The new colors are great, but they are locked with a Gallery Title that's not even bold, so it doesn't stand out at all from the Breadcrumb Trail. I have to always go in & change it with Adv. Customizing.

    Hope that makes sense with what I'm proposing. I know it would help make the entire site look better overall, work more smoothly without bags of tricks from old-timers here, & be much simpler for the site owner & keep people happy with their look. It's the same kind of thing you can do on almost any blog, other art gallery sites, etc., so it's nothing new in a larger sense.
    Anna Lisa Yoder's Images - http://winsomeworks.com ... Handmade Photo Notecards: http://winsomeworks.etsy.com ... Framed/Matted work: http://anna-lisa-yoder.artistwebsites.com/galleries.html ... Scribbles: http://winsomeworks.blogspot.com
    DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 12, 2011
    I'm not able to read the last part of your text, Derek. For some reason when you include screenshots, some of your text goes missing towards the end... Also, larger & much more space-filling thumbnail displays on cats & sub-cats have already been promised/planned, according to UserVoice. Having big thumbs there shouldn't change or fluctuate with gallery thumb size.

    All you have to do is scroll right a little to see the text. As far as larger thumbs for categories being planned that is great news! clap.gif

    As to your other suggestions I think you have some really good ideas, though I don't always follow them completely. I'm just not sure how much of that can be incorporated into this new release. Of course this is just my opinion as a software guy. But typically you can't inlcude every possible option. I recommend trying to summerize those features which you would find most beneficial (maybe your top 3). Believe it or not each one cost time and time = $$.

    Derek
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Gallery > Multiple Photos > More > Adjust Thumbnails - presently leads you to a function that is not working! headscratch.gif
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Gallery > Multiple Photos > More > Adjust Thumbnails - presently leads you to a function that is not working! headscratch.gif

    Hi Ross, I just used the function and it's working here. Please write our Support Heroes with a gallery link and we'll help from the help desk.
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means... i.e: It would be a real shame if thumb size were tied to a theme
    Thumb sizes are controlled by the screen resolution and window size - and can be affected by how large (tall) your header and other customizations are. I expect that new themes we make with the new gallery style will behave just as the new gallery style does.

    Thanks for your other theme suggestions, Anna Lisa. One thing to note, themes like "Sand" and "Khaki" will be old-style only. AFAIK we won't be updating those to the new style, but rather we plan on having new themes that will be updated designs to work with the new style.
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Andy wrote: »
    ...
    Thanks for your other theme suggestions, Anna Lisa. One thing to note, themes like "Sand" and "Khaki" will be old-style only. AFAIK we won't be updating those to the new style, but rather we plan on having new themes that will be updated designs to work with the new style.

    Andy, does this apply to all current themes, or just those of the category past their prime? I currently use brushed metal. And while I generally like the theme I feel that it could definately use a facelift. I don't particularly care for the black and white pin striped border around the images for example. I would imagine at the least these would get the new navigation look and feel, unless they are just left alone. And newer themes took over the elegant category.

    I think having at least a handful of attractive/elegant themes is very important. While ornamental themes are cutesy, most serious photographers need something with more polish and style. There are very few current themes I find that really do much for me now in terms of style, without significant modification.

    BTW, I do like what has been done thus far with the new SM default theme.

    I also like Anna's idea about using a theme as a canvas so to speak and being able to change certain key elements of it. Take the new SM theme. Maybe some like it but would prefer it in a lighter shade white/grey overall. The trick would be if a theme uses graphics those would need to change along with the primary color as CSS set or class for that theme, like Brushed_Metal_Dark or Brushed_Metal_Grey. I have both seen and used something like this with other photo hosting software like Gallery 2. It also encourages reuse once a certain theme is refined while allowing for some flexibility with it.

    The photo borders as she mentioned could have some basic design flexibility like simple drop shadow, vs. white or grey border. And border width could vary. I know most of this stuff can be overriden in advanced customization which many of us already do. But some basic theme variation could also be handled in a more user friendly GUI as well with drop down boxes and form fields like width of image border: 10px. Or Drop Shadow: Yes/No. This also goes for thumbnail sizes both in categories and galleries.

    This is a good time to think about things like this while designing the new software. Decoupling themes' foundational look and feel from things such as one particular color, image borders or even thumb size will make it easier to customize later on.

    Derek
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    Dave_AndersonDave_Anderson Registered Users Posts: 53 Big grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    I like that thumbnail size adjusts based on screen size, but I would like to be able to "skew" the choices. For example, have five thumbnail sizes, site owner can choose "small", "med", or "large". Based on this setting, have the auto-sizing work from either the smallest three, the middle three, or the largest three.
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    CameronCameron Registered Users Posts: 745 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    dereksurfs wrote: »
    Cool, thanks for the update!
    One recommendation with this is that thumbnail sizes could vary based on page 'type.' For example the higher level galleries/categories page could use larger thumbs than the individual galleries themselves.
    ...
    Derek

    I agree! I know that the focus is currently on images within a gallery, but I would LOVE to have huge, beautiful thumbs for categories or galleries themselves.
    thumb.gif
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    dereksurfsdereksurfs Registered Users Posts: 286 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    I like that thumbnail size adjusts based on screen size, but I would like to be able to "skew" the choices. For example, have five thumbnail sizes, site owner can choose "small", "med", or "large". Based on this setting, have the auto-sizing work from either the smallest three, the middle three, or the largest three.

    Yes, I like this idea. Its similar to what we have now with the primary image in that there are mulitple sizes and we pick the largest to display.

    The big difference and added functionality would be to set the range for both thumbs and the primary image. Even with the primary image some may like a smaller one. While others like myself prefer a larger primary image which is also the primary focus of the page (never the thumbs), and thus should occupy the majority of the page real estate - always.

    Derek
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Andy wrote: »
    Hi Ross, I just used the function and it's working here.
    Perhaps I don't understand what "adjust thumbnails" now means! This is what I see.

    i-jkBfbjm-X3.jpg

    I see an option to select square or original thumbs. But I don't see where/how I select other ratios and crop the thumbnail under the new design. Perhaps I'm having a senior moment? ne_nau.gif
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Perhaps I don't understand what "adjust thumbnails" now means! This is what I see.

    i-jkBfbjm-X3.jpg

    I see an option to select square or original thumbs. But I don't see where/how I select other ratios and crop the thumbnail under the new design. Perhaps I'm having a senior moment? ne_nau.gif

    Ross, you're using the bulk tool. Use the edit tool for a single photo, found under the photo:

    20110714-kjp1kgya37y3p48r47jafbqt5g.jpg
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    W.W. WebsterW.W. Webster Registered Users Posts: 3,204 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2011
    Andy wrote: »
    Ross, you're using the bulk tool. Use the edit tool for a single photo, found under the photo
    11doh.gif

    Thanks! I can't get used to the Edit and Share buttons/icons concealing further options! :D
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    StashStash Registered Users Posts: 129 Major grins
    edited July 14, 2011
    onethumb wrote: »
    First, the disclaimer: We're not done yet, by a long shot. Nothing is set in stone, and there will be bugs.



    - Anonymous comments. They're gone. You must have a SmugMug or Facebook Connect login to leave a comment at SmugMug. The abusive anonymous comment problem, even with our moderator tools, is just getting too large.


    I realize I am a bit late to the party and have not scrolled through all 19 pages to see if this has been addressed. To date I've been lucky in that I've not received any abusive comments. I realize you Smuggers are all really keen on the site (as I am) however not everyone that views my pictures is a customer of SmugMug. There are even some of us heathens that are NOT on Facebook. Alarming I realize, but it's the way of the world. Some things are worth burying your head in the sand over.
    Can there not be an option whereby the site owner can turn the anon comments on or off? Do we all have to become automatrons and join both Smugmug and Facebook, becoming another drone in the line? I have family and friends that will no longer have the option of leaving me comments. That was not why I signed up to SmugMug. I want a site that is as easy to use as possible. Can we really think about this again please?

    Don
    C&C always welcome. I can't learn if I don't know what I've done wrong or could do better.

    http://donbirch.smugmug.com/
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