look into what, specifically and precisely, Anna Lisa?
Andy, I notice you only addressed Anna Lisa .... it feels like you/Smugmug is deliberately ignoring the requests for clarification on a number of points - not least the one I make in my post below.
I'm not alone in asking for clarification or comment from Smugmug, it shouldn't be left to John to pass information as important as this on.
So how about it, will you look into the situation regarding use of html in gallery descriptions and captions and at least advise whether it is safe practice to continue doing this please.
Like I said previously, this is like drawing teeth.
Caroline I have replied a few times now here and on FB, saying we're working on all of this feedback. I beg, beg, beg your patience while we do that. We will not let you all down I promise.
Thank you in advance for your continued patience.
Andy thank you, patience isn't a strong point for me as I expect you know, but I will try, your promise isn't something I imagine you give lightly.
look into what, specifically and precisely, Anna Lisa?
I think it's posts like this one that do little to inspire the confidence SmugMug is trying to inspire, that they are really & truly listening to everything in this thread. Rather than ask me what I'm referring to, which should have been obvious, step #1 should have been to read the 3-4 posts right before mine, which, as I said, went unanswered since yesterday. I know you guys can't answer every single thing, of course, but you do keep saying you're listening. We truly try to be confident that's the case, but if someone posts that they can see the "new look" on other people's sites, it should have been looked into & responded to within at most an hour or two, imho. I'm not mad & I don't need an apology or anything-- I'm just observing (in an attempt to help SmugMug see areas where communication & our confidence breaks down) that it's not cool for stuff that appears security-related to go un-answered for that long. I know we all want to remain calm, so let's read the posts in this thread before responding to them. I had hoped that there were a bunch of SmugMug leaders reading this entire thread, but this interchange right here, about posts # 204, 206 & 207, makes me now doubt that.
Incidentally, but related in a way-- I've not seen a response to the observation in this thread that the main example of a Smug gallery on the SmugMug.com homepage is actually the new, as-yet-unavailable design. I really think that should be taken down. Why in the world it's there I can't begin to fathom. It says so many weird things... don't know where to start. Please, put something there that's currently available. Furthermore, we hope the ideas in this thread will be much improving that supposed "future" look, meaning it never will be available in that form.
Here is an example of my being able to see the new version a smugmug site that I have absolutely no association with. I presume it is because both the site owner and I accepted the "join" cookie.
I do not want my site seen by anybody in its "new" version. That is a breech of security. What is Smugmug going to do about it?
Andy, clearly your statement from post #49, nearly two weeks ago, ("It's only for you - your visitors won't see the new style if you click "join" on the goodies page. This is a tool for you only to preview the new style.") is untrue. Again, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
Caroline - we're reading all three threads. Our CEO himself split out the customizing and gallery description threads. I have repeatedly tried to reassure you that we are reading everything. I don't know how many more ways I can says this: we want your feedback; it's a massive amount of it; we're actively changing things right now; we have sought direct customer feedback in person under NDA from folks that are active on this forum; we need time to work on all this; we need time to get things in summary form back to you and all customers.
Thanks again Caroline and all for your patience while we do all this.
I don't know how many more ways I can says this: we want your feedback; it's a massive amount of it; we're actively changing things right now; we have sought direct customer feedback in person under NDA from folks that are active on this forum; we need time to work on all this; we need time to get things in summary form back to you and all customers.
Thanks again Caroline and all for your patience while we do all this.
I am certainly willing to let the sorcerers sort this out! So grateful that you've permitted us to see and comment on the track you're on. Echo the thought about the giant keyword buttons, looking forward to the date-timeline. Purty stuff, overall.
I hope it is unintended, but but it's been a breech since the sneak
peek was announced on June 1.
If Smugmug spent 1/10 the time testing its new "features" as it does defending them, the site would run about 1000 times faster.
You're being ridiculously unfair and I think Smugmug are being too polite to call you on it at the moment. I have had my issues with Smugmug but they are more responsive than any company I have ever dealt with.
Your hyperbole to make a point is unwelcome and negative.
You're being ridiculously unfair and I think Smugmug are being too polite to call you on it at the moment. I have had my issues with Smugmug but they are more responsive than any company I have ever dealt with.
Your hyperbole to make a point is unwelcome and negative.
Cheers - N
I feel your SM defense is unnecessary. There's been enough documentation showing how SM does indeed release things without thorough testing on a regular basis. These are not opinions, but facts. Facts which can't be countered by any amount of goodwill that is found through customer service.
I've been with SM for a good many years, and have seen things break and be repaired. It's okay for a year or so, but after a few years of the same song and dance, it becomes unprofessional. And I've seen many long-time SM users recently get angry over the issue, and rightfully so. This is supposed to be a professional level service, and these 'little things' make us look unprofessional. This has been brought up time-and-time again. And as the saying goes, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease', so it will continue to be brought up.
I hope it is unintended, but but it's been a breech since the sneak
peek was announced on June 1.
If Smugmug spent 1/10 the time testing its new "features" as it does defending them, the site would run about 1000 times faster.
I would have been surprised if you _didn't_ see _all_ smugmug sites in the new preview once you have the "join" cookie for your computer/browser combination. That shouldn't bother you - how many of your customers will have the "join" cookie?
Seeing the galleries in the new look isn't, in and of itself, a security breach. Can you get past a password protected gallery? What is the breach, exactly?
SmugMug is doing a nice job of gathering (their) customer feedback for an update to their appearance. They don't have to do that. They could choose to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations of how many customers will walk given certain changes and move forward with those that they think are worth doing. Instead, they are trying to keep existing customers involved.
Remember, keeping you happy is not their only objective. They need to (continue to) be a compelling choice for new customers coming to this market. If they don't manage that, they will lose to a competitor and you will lose your provider - so you won't be happy with that outcome.
So maybe a little more positive spin on the relationship you have would be in order. You get more bees with honey . . .
I would have been surprised if you _didn't_ see _all_ smugmug sites in the new preview once you have the "join" cookie for your computer/browser combination. That shouldn't bother you - how many of your customers will have the "join" cookie?
Seeing the galleries in the new look isn't, in and of itself, a security breach. Can you get past a password protected gallery? What is the breach, exactly?... . . .
First of all, we don't even know whether we're seeing other people's sites in the new preview if they've got the "join" cookie or if we do. So yes, it's a problem! NO one seems to be saying exactly what's going on yet. And whether you are surprised or not, you certainly should be, as SmugMug clearly stated that only we would see our own site with the new look. If that's the way it should be, that's the way it should be. I would be extremely bothered by someone seeing my site in the new look, because first of all, I have NO idea how my customizations will affect any of it. It also has a lot of issues currently, such as not even being able to page correctly. So yes, if someone has paying customers expecting a certain thing, it would be terribly frustrating to know those customers are seeing a page that looks nothing like the site owner expects it to look for them. Furthermore, we don't know whether it was/is a security breach. It very well could have put people's sites at risk... this is pretty much anyone's guess. What if someone has certain things hidden or unavailable or something in their CSS & this new look is completely ignoring that for now (because it wasn't supposed to be public!!) So the bottom line is, we don't know, and it also took much too long for any response to happen after this was reported yesterday. Yeah, a lot of the other stuff here could wait. But this, like I said, does not inspire confidence. I'm frankly scared to try the new site again.
First of all, we don't even know whether we're seeing other people's sites in the new preview if they've got the "join" cookie or if we do.
Given that it's enabled with a cookie in a specific browser on your computer I would expect to be able to see all ...smugmug.com sites if I enable it for www.smugmug.com. There is also nothing to stop me from turning it on on someone else's site if I know there URL. Again, that would just be for my browser, not for everyone, and not for me in a different browser on my machine. I still can't get to password-protected sites or galleries.
Andy indicated that smug is working on changing this a few posts back.
I can't imagine what the fuss is though. If I want to see someone's customized site without the customizations all I need to do is open that site on Firefox, go into the web developers extension, and remove the code for that site. It's not the way the site owner intends their site to be seen, but it's not a security breach.
I would be extremely bothered by someone seeing my site in the new look, because first of all, I have NO idea how my customizations will affect any of it.
As noted in the first post of this thread, your customizations aren't active in the preview of the new gallery style - anyone who looked at your site would see it without any customizations.
I love the new UI! Glad to see you guys are working to keep things fresh.
In no particular order:
-Jump to page # is missing. For large galleries, it'd be nice to retain the ability to move more quickly between the available pages(and final page).
-Pro accounts need to be able to be able to remove the footer toolbar, or at least have a customizable white-label option.
-Comments. I like the distinction between Photo/Gallery but the toggle could be more intuitive.
-Download button. We all love Apple but I think the iCloud logo spoof is a little confusing and unnecessary.
-Search. I would LOVE to see a search box option somewhere within the gallery viewing area. The topbar searchbox can easily go unnoticed.
-Slideshow. Please tell me we're not going to stick with a flash slideshow...I am sure you guys have a beautiful HTML5 solution in the works...right?
I love smugmug. I don't like the almost weekly outages and breakdowns. I LOVE the easy access to real people for real support. You guys have a great operation going, and I want to say thanks for the past few years of great service.
First of all, we don't even know whether we're seeing other people's sites in the new preview if they've got the "join" cookie or if we do. So yes, it's a problem!
The problem is that you don't know how cookies work. (and for the record, this entire post is offered as, and intended to be, in a friendly tone without rancor. it just needs to be said that you don't have a full understanding of the issue, and nobody should expect SmugMug to provide such education in a development thread.).
NO one seems to be saying exactly what's going on yet. And whether you are surprised or not, you certainly should be, as SmugMug clearly stated that only we would see our own site with the new look.
Only we, as in only those of us who read this thread and got the "join" cookie. No "regular visitor" is going to see a site with the new look turned on.
I would be extremely bothered by someone seeing my site in the new look, because first of all, I have NO idea how my customizations will affect any of it.
Your customers aren't going to see it that way. Why would you care if some fellow smugger saw it that way? The only ones who would/could are those who are also following this thread and loaded the "join" cookie - so they are aware of the beta (alpha?) nature of what they are seeing. No reflection on you if your site doesn't look right - and the viewer will know that.
It also has a lot of issues currently, such as not even being able to page correctly. So yes, if someone has paying customers expecting a certain thing, it would be terribly frustrating to know those customers are seeing a page that looks nothing like the site owner expects it to look for them.
That would certainly be bad. It is certainly not ready for regular viewers. Fortunately, none of your customers will see your site with the new look.
Furthermore, we don't know whether it was/is a security breach. It very well could have put people's sites at risk... this is pretty much anyone's guess. What if someone has certain things hidden or unavailable or something in their CSS & this new look is completely ignoring that for now (because it wasn't supposed to be public!!) So the bottom line is, we don't know, and it also took much too long for any response to happen after this was reported yesterday. Yeah, a lot of the other stuff here could wait. But this, like I said, does not inspire confidence. I'm frankly scared to try the new site again.
You said there was a breach. Now you say we don't know whether there was a breach. You are frustrated/worried/irritated/{add or delete adjectives as appropriate}, but you aren't being careful with the allegations. Just because you don't understand what circumstances cause a site to appear in the new look does _not_ mean there is a security breach.
Your confidence is shaken (or destroyed, as the case may be), but maybe that just means you don't have the inclination or time to follow a development project like this. There is no shame in that. Respectfully (and sincerely), I think there is too much angst on this thread (not blaming you for that, but maybe it is part of why you are losing confidence/scared/etc.) and that you don't need to be as worried as the tone of the thread is suggesting some are. This is very early in the process. Don't expect the mock ups to be ready for prime time, don't worry about how many problems are found (it is a messy process), and don't expect much response from SmugMug (they will be busy sifting out the issues and absorbing feedback). If there were an issue affecting your "live" site, then yes a quick response from SM would be in order - but all of this new look stuff is not affecting your customers.
and it also took much too long for any response to happen after this was reported yesterday. Yeah, a lot of the other stuff here could wait. But this, like I said, does not inspire confidence. I'm frankly scared to try the new site again.
You needn't be scared, and as I posted earlier, we intend to revert the behavior to what it was when I posted that only you will see your site in the new style.
You needn't be scared, and as I posted earlier, we intend to revert the behavior to what it was when I posted that only you will see your site in the new style.
Andy, what you don't get is that there is no behavior to revert to. The behavior of this sneak peek has not changed since it was released on June 1. It appears that if a site owner and a visitor have both accepted the "join" cookie, then any visitor can see preview any "new" site.
It took me all of 30 seconds to figure this out on June 1. If this is unintended behavior, it should not have taken Smugmug more that 30 seconds of testing to see it. Apparently, 30 seconds of testing was too much.
That previews were not exclusive to the site owner was alluded to in Post #44, on June 2. Andy, you dismissed that possibility, no testing necessary apparently, about an hour later in Post #49.
I agree that whether sites can be seen nekkid as it were is not that big a deal. What is the big deal is that Smugmug released YET ANOTHER feature untested, not working as intended, and it continues, nearly 2 weeks later, to defend the release.
Under the best of circumstances, this switch to the "new" Smugmug is going to be painful for all. If this preview release is any indication, the best of circumstances ain't gonna happen. I have no idea what the internal communications are like, but Smugmug's communication with us paying customers is beyond lousy. It's slow, it's dishonest, it's defensive. If Smugmug wants folks to stick with them thru the change, it's going to have to try a lot harder.
I pay you money to host my photos. I am not your beta tester. Do you understand that?
What is the big deal is that Smugmug released YET ANOTHER feature untested, not working as intended, and it continues, nearly 2 weeks later, to defend the release.
I don't understand this to be the case at all. I've just caught up with this development and, reading through the six pages (so far) of this thread and looking at the new look and feel, my take is that SmugMug is simply sharing early thinking and work on this for comment and feedback.
I'm apprehensive of the changes I may be confronted with to replicate my customisation in the new environment (including any restrictions on the use of HTML in gallery titles and descriptions, and in image captions), but I'm fully in favour of this development and the way SmugMug is going about it. The ability, over an adequate transition period, for my existing customisation to continue to support my visitor-facing site while allowing me to progressively adapt a parallel set of customisation for the new environment is a sound and practical strategy. The changes SmugMug is implementing are well overdue and were always going to cause some angst.
Some of the user reaction above is somewhat hysterical. I believe SmugMug is genuinely listening to well considered feedback and suggestions - why would they do otherwise? Andy, himself, is a long term user and has a heavily customised SmugMug site for his own business, so is not unaware of the practical considerations and issues for all users.
SmugMug has my full support for these changes. Keep up the good work chaps!
I don't understand this to be the case at all. I've just caught up with this development and, reading through the six pages (so far) of this thread and looking at the new look and feel, my take is that SmugMug is simply sharing early thinking and work on this for comment and feedback.....
You may not be realizing that what Alacranera was referring to in recent posts was some behavior that was not as SmugMug promised it would be as far as whether anyone else besides ourselves could see our galleries in the new view. Quote from Alacranera:
It appears that if a site owner and a visitor have both accepted the "join" cookie, then any visitor can see preview any "new" site.
This is what has brought up the recent frustration, and the possibility that it's been like this from the beginning of the release. (I don't know that, so I'm not going to say that's a fact). People are upset about how long it took/is taking to rectify the situation.
I don't know that, so I'm not going to say that's a fact
So why say it at all?
There's a forum here for genuine issues and good ideas which is the kind of feedback I'm interested to hear. It will also ensure SmugMug has the benefit of the considerable wisdom and experience that exists in the user community, and which will be to the benefit of us all.
It’s nice to see that this issue has apparently been fixed.
With regard to the undercurrent of fear and angst that has manifested to some degree in this thread, I think something that’s lost on some people is the fact that a lot of customers, myself included, chose to host their photos on Smugmug specifically because Smugmug provides the option to thoroughly customize one’s site, even to the point where a site is rendered beyond recognition as being Smugmug-affiliated. This is what largely sets Smugmug apart from other photo-hosting sites. As should be obvious, many folks have a lot invested in their Smugmug sites - not just time-wise and economically, but also emotionally. Hence, the strong reactions from some people to all the impending changes here.
I understand that Smugmug has constituencies other than those who choose to customize, for whom an issue such as the “New Style Preview Breach” might not seem so important. But to the extent that someone, even a “fellow Smugger,” could view my galleries in the new style and have access to the share button, this was a security breach. I think most people understand that things can and do go wrong, especially in a “Beta” context such as this New Style Preview. But if communication from Smugmug could be just a little more proactive, I think it would mitigate a lot of the fear and uncertainty being expressed in this thread. Many of the replies from official Smugmug people in this forum come off as quite condescending and dismissive. Just saying that something is “being looked into” or “being addressed” without even acknowledging that the problem actually exists, is not especially useful.
I think people just wanted to know if there was something they could do, such as deleting their “join”-cookie, that might have made a difference. Even if deleting the “join”-cookie wouldn’t have changed anything (I understand that a local browser cookie on my computer should have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not someone else could view my site in the new style but it’s not unreasonable that people would wonder if there was somehow a connection) a post from someone at Smugmug explaining the nature of the problem and indicating definitively that it would be fixed would have gone a long way towards allying concerns.
In the final analysis, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a bit more effective communication from Smugmug in general, and particularly where problems of this nature are concerned.
There's a forum here for genuine issues and good ideas which is the kind of feedback I'm interested to hear. It will also ensure SmugMug has the benefit of the considerable wisdom and experience that exists in the user community, and which will be to the benefit of us all.
I said it because I was acknowledging that's what the report is (for the purpose of the conversation we were having), and because I was in the process of trying to help you "get" what people are so concerned about. Most of this thread has been all about just what you want to hear. But please realize that this happens to be the only thread about this change (besides the split-off customization thread), so... sorry, but this is where people have to let SmugMug know if something has gone wacky with the new view, which it has. If you don't want to know or don't care about a part of this that isn't working correctly, or it doesn't bother you, then skip over those parts. Other people, including SmugMug gurus, do need to know. This is a genuine issue! Someone was wondering why it should matter if only SmugMuggers see one's site in the new view... well, lots of people have lots of friends/relatives/acquaintances who are SmugMuggers, so certainly they might care! I happen to be one of those people.
But if communication from Smugmug could be just a little more proactive, I think it would mitigate a lot of the fear and uncertainty being expressed in this thread. Many of the replies from official Smugmug people in this forum come off as quite condescending and dismissive. Just saying that something is “being looked into” or “being addressed” without even acknowledging that the problem actually exists, is not especially useful.
In the final analysis, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a bit more effective communication from Smugmug in general, and particularly where problems of this nature are concerned.
Comments
Thanks for being specific, Anna Lisa. I will make sure they are addressed.
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Andy, I notice you only addressed Anna Lisa .... it feels like you/Smugmug is deliberately ignoring the requests for clarification on a number of points - not least the one I make in my post below.
I'm not alone in asking for clarification or comment from Smugmug, it shouldn't be left to John to pass information as important as this on.
So how about it, will you look into the situation regarding use of html in gallery descriptions and captions and at least advise whether it is safe practice to continue doing this please.
Like I said previously, this is like drawing teeth.
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
Andy thank you, patience isn't a strong point for me as I expect you know, but I will try, your promise isn't something I imagine you give lightly.
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
Incidentally, but related in a way-- I've not seen a response to the observation in this thread that the main example of a Smug gallery on the SmugMug.com homepage is actually the new, as-yet-unavailable design. I really think that should be taken down. Why in the world it's there I can't begin to fathom. It says so many weird things... don't know where to start. Please, put something there that's currently available. Furthermore, we hope the ideas in this thread will be much improving that supposed "future" look, meaning it never will be available in that form.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
I do not want my site seen by anybody in its "new" version. That is a breech of security. What is Smugmug going to do about it?
Andy, clearly your statement from post #49, nearly two weeks ago, ("It's only for you - your visitors won't see the new style if you click "join" on the goodies page. This is a tool for you only to preview the new style.") is untrue. Again, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
I've asked our team to look at this and respond, thank you alacranera.
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This issue is being addressed, it's an unintended change that has only been out there for a little bit, we're reverting it today.
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They're not reading the new Design Customization thread either
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1627332&postcount=33
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
Caroline - we're reading all three threads. Our CEO himself split out the customizing and gallery description threads. I have repeatedly tried to reassure you that we are reading everything. I don't know how many more ways I can says this: we want your feedback; it's a massive amount of it; we're actively changing things right now; we have sought direct customer feedback in person under NDA from folks that are active on this forum; we need time to work on all this; we need time to get things in summary form back to you and all customers.
Thanks again Caroline and all for your patience while we do all this.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I hope it is unintended, but but it's been a breech since the sneak
peek was announced on June 1.
If Smugmug spent 1/10 the time testing its new "features" as it does defending them, the site would run about 1000 times faster.
I am certainly willing to let the sorcerers sort this out! So grateful that you've permitted us to see and comment on the track you're on. Echo the thought about the giant keyword buttons, looking forward to the date-timeline. Purty stuff, overall.
Galleries here Upcoming Ranch/Horse Workshop
You're being ridiculously unfair and I think Smugmug are being too polite to call you on it at the moment. I have had my issues with Smugmug but they are more responsive than any company I have ever dealt with.
Your hyperbole to make a point is unwelcome and negative.
Cheers - N
http://www.nzsnaps.com (talkiet.smugmug.com)
I've been with SM for a good many years, and have seen things break and be repaired. It's okay for a year or so, but after a few years of the same song and dance, it becomes unprofessional. And I've seen many long-time SM users recently get angry over the issue, and rightfully so. This is supposed to be a professional level service, and these 'little things' make us look unprofessional. This has been brought up time-and-time again. And as the saying goes, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease', so it will continue to be brought up.
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
I would have been surprised if you _didn't_ see _all_ smugmug sites in the new preview once you have the "join" cookie for your computer/browser combination. That shouldn't bother you - how many of your customers will have the "join" cookie?
Seeing the galleries in the new look isn't, in and of itself, a security breach. Can you get past a password protected gallery? What is the breach, exactly?
SmugMug is doing a nice job of gathering (their) customer feedback for an update to their appearance. They don't have to do that. They could choose to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations of how many customers will walk given certain changes and move forward with those that they think are worth doing. Instead, they are trying to keep existing customers involved.
Remember, keeping you happy is not their only objective. They need to (continue to) be a compelling choice for new customers coming to this market. If they don't manage that, they will lose to a competitor and you will lose your provider - so you won't be happy with that outcome.
So maybe a little more positive spin on the relationship you have would be in order. You get more bees with honey . . .
Chooka chooka hoo la ley
Looka looka koo la ley
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Andy indicated that smug is working on changing this a few posts back.
I can't imagine what the fuss is though. If I want to see someone's customized site without the customizations all I need to do is open that site on Firefox, go into the web developers extension, and remove the code for that site. It's not the way the site owner intends their site to be seen, but it's not a security breach. As noted in the first post of this thread, your customizations aren't active in the preview of the new gallery style - anyone who looked at your site would see it without any customizations.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
I love the new UI! Glad to see you guys are working to keep things fresh.
In no particular order:
-Jump to page # is missing. For large galleries, it'd be nice to retain the ability to move more quickly between the available pages(and final page).
-Pro accounts need to be able to be able to remove the footer toolbar, or at least have a customizable white-label option.
-Comments. I like the distinction between Photo/Gallery but the toggle could be more intuitive.
-Download button. We all love Apple but I think the iCloud logo spoof is a little confusing and unnecessary.
-Search. I would LOVE to see a search box option somewhere within the gallery viewing area. The topbar searchbox can easily go unnoticed.
-Slideshow. Please tell me we're not going to stick with a flash slideshow...I am sure you guys have a beautiful HTML5 solution in the works...right?
I love smugmug. I don't like the almost weekly outages and breakdowns. I LOVE the easy access to real people for real support. You guys have a great operation going, and I want to say thanks for the past few years of great service.
-Josh Martinez
6x Pro Account Admin
The problem is that you don't know how cookies work. (and for the record, this entire post is offered as, and intended to be, in a friendly tone without rancor. it just needs to be said that you don't have a full understanding of the issue, and nobody should expect SmugMug to provide such education in a development thread.).
Only we, as in only those of us who read this thread and got the "join" cookie. No "regular visitor" is going to see a site with the new look turned on.
Your customers aren't going to see it that way. Why would you care if some fellow smugger saw it that way? The only ones who would/could are those who are also following this thread and loaded the "join" cookie - so they are aware of the beta (alpha?) nature of what they are seeing. No reflection on you if your site doesn't look right - and the viewer will know that.
That would certainly be bad. It is certainly not ready for regular viewers. Fortunately, none of your customers will see your site with the new look.
You said there was a breach. Now you say we don't know whether there was a breach. You are frustrated/worried/irritated/{add or delete adjectives as appropriate}, but you aren't being careful with the allegations. Just because you don't understand what circumstances cause a site to appear in the new look does _not_ mean there is a security breach.
Your confidence is shaken (or destroyed, as the case may be), but maybe that just means you don't have the inclination or time to follow a development project like this. There is no shame in that. Respectfully (and sincerely), I think there is too much angst on this thread (not blaming you for that, but maybe it is part of why you are losing confidence/scared/etc.) and that you don't need to be as worried as the tone of the thread is suggesting some are. This is very early in the process. Don't expect the mock ups to be ready for prime time, don't worry about how many problems are found (it is a messy process), and don't expect much response from SmugMug (they will be busy sifting out the issues and absorbing feedback). If there were an issue affecting your "live" site, then yes a quick response from SM would be in order - but all of this new look stuff is not affecting your customers.
Chooka chooka hoo la ley
Looka looka koo la ley
You needn't be scared, and as I posted earlier, we intend to revert the behavior to what it was when I posted that only you will see your site in the new style.
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Andy, what you don't get is that there is no behavior to revert to. The behavior of this sneak peek has not changed since it was released on June 1. It appears that if a site owner and a visitor have both accepted the "join" cookie, then any visitor can see preview any "new" site.
It took me all of 30 seconds to figure this out on June 1. If this is unintended behavior, it should not have taken Smugmug more that 30 seconds of testing to see it. Apparently, 30 seconds of testing was too much.
That previews were not exclusive to the site owner was alluded to in Post #44, on June 2. Andy, you dismissed that possibility, no testing necessary apparently, about an hour later in Post #49.
I agree that whether sites can be seen nekkid as it were is not that big a deal. What is the big deal is that Smugmug released YET ANOTHER feature untested, not working as intended, and it continues, nearly 2 weeks later, to defend the release.
Under the best of circumstances, this switch to the "new" Smugmug is going to be painful for all. If this preview release is any indication, the best of circumstances ain't gonna happen. I have no idea what the internal communications are like, but Smugmug's communication with us paying customers is beyond lousy. It's slow, it's dishonest, it's defensive. If Smugmug wants folks to stick with them thru the change, it's going to have to try a lot harder.
I pay you money to host my photos. I am not your beta tester. Do you understand that?
I'm apprehensive of the changes I may be confronted with to replicate my customisation in the new environment (including any restrictions on the use of HTML in gallery titles and descriptions, and in image captions), but I'm fully in favour of this development and the way SmugMug is going about it. The ability, over an adequate transition period, for my existing customisation to continue to support my visitor-facing site while allowing me to progressively adapt a parallel set of customisation for the new environment is a sound and practical strategy. The changes SmugMug is implementing are well overdue and were always going to cause some angst.
Some of the user reaction above is somewhat hysterical. I believe SmugMug is genuinely listening to well considered feedback and suggestions - why would they do otherwise? Andy, himself, is a long term user and has a heavily customised SmugMug site for his own business, so is not unaware of the practical considerations and issues for all users.
SmugMug has my full support for these changes. Keep up the good work chaps!
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There's a forum here for genuine issues and good ideas which is the kind of feedback I'm interested to hear. It will also ensure SmugMug has the benefit of the considerable wisdom and experience that exists in the user community, and which will be to the benefit of us all.
With regard to the undercurrent of fear and angst that has manifested to some degree in this thread, I think something that’s lost on some people is the fact that a lot of customers, myself included, chose to host their photos on Smugmug specifically because Smugmug provides the option to thoroughly customize one’s site, even to the point where a site is rendered beyond recognition as being Smugmug-affiliated. This is what largely sets Smugmug apart from other photo-hosting sites. As should be obvious, many folks have a lot invested in their Smugmug sites - not just time-wise and economically, but also emotionally. Hence, the strong reactions from some people to all the impending changes here.
I understand that Smugmug has constituencies other than those who choose to customize, for whom an issue such as the “New Style Preview Breach” might not seem so important. But to the extent that someone, even a “fellow Smugger,” could view my galleries in the new style and have access to the share button, this was a security breach. I think most people understand that things can and do go wrong, especially in a “Beta” context such as this New Style Preview. But if communication from Smugmug could be just a little more proactive, I think it would mitigate a lot of the fear and uncertainty being expressed in this thread. Many of the replies from official Smugmug people in this forum come off as quite condescending and dismissive. Just saying that something is “being looked into” or “being addressed” without even acknowledging that the problem actually exists, is not especially useful.
I think people just wanted to know if there was something they could do, such as deleting their “join”-cookie, that might have made a difference. Even if deleting the “join”-cookie wouldn’t have changed anything (I understand that a local browser cookie on my computer should have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not someone else could view my site in the new style but it’s not unreasonable that people would wonder if there was somehow a connection) a post from someone at Smugmug explaining the nature of the problem and indicating definitively that it would be fixed would have gone a long way towards allying concerns.
In the final analysis, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a bit more effective communication from Smugmug in general, and particularly where problems of this nature are concerned.
- Dave
www.djdigitaldave.net
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
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Caroline
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