It's generally less costly to develop and support 1 camera then 2. This is why they are doing it, but I think it covers the needs of most pros very well. The Pros it might not suit are those that would already be using MF anyway.
If they put the same sensor in the 5D3 it will sell like hot cakes. Large file sizes are a pain for wedding shooters etc, so 18Mp sounds around right.
As has been mentioned above, there is the option to swap in some specialised components into a basic body, essentially one body but with application specific components.
Judging by threads @ DG alone there are people who are on the verge of moving to MF or something like the 1DX. I suspect this would define the majority of customers for this level of product.
It won't focus with an f/8 lens, so putting a teleconverter on an f/5.6 lens like the 400/5.6L, 100-400L or 70-300L won't work.
The previous 1D/1Ds series bodies "do" provide for autofocus at f8 effective apertures, but only at the center AF sensor position. I suspect that the 1D-X will be similar. All other Canon cameras are limited to f5.6 effective apertures or faster.
(I did find this information quoted at one of the Canon corporate sites, but I can't find the link just now.)
"The MK4 offers 39 high precision cross type AF (horizontal and vertical) points when a lens with a max aperture of f2.8 or more is used or when combined with an extender. The cross type sensors vertical line sensitivity is approx two times more than the horizontal line sensitivity. When using an f4 lens, say the 600 f4, then only the centre AF point is usable as a cross type with the other 44 horizontal sensitive only. At f5.6 all the AF points are horizontal sensitive and at f8 only the centre AF can be used with horizontal sensitivity."
I believe that the same basic f8 sensitivity for the center AF position and f8 exists back to at least the 1D MKII bodies.
I can vouch that f8 effective aperture autofocus using a teleconverter is sketchy to poor AF perfomance and accuracy in many zoom lens cases, but autofocus using a "prime" lens and teleconverter can be acceptable, especially in good light. The Canon EF 70-200mm, f4L IS USM and a ver 1 Canon EF 2.0x teleconverter was acceptable by my tests with high-contrast subjects in good light and at the 200mm setting.
Unfortunately it has been confirmed that the 1D X will NOT focus at f/8 on the center point like prior 1D bodies (direct question from Arthur Morris to Chuck Westfall).
So two major negatives so far to the new one-body-to-rule-them-all:
1) Wildlife photographers (particularly BiF folks) can't use any teleconverters on their 800mm and can't use a 2X on anything other than f/2.8 lenses. You really gotta wonder what Canon was thinking on this one...
2) Sports photographers shooting field sports take a hit on effective reach unless they are shooting older bodies. It should be an upgrade for indoor sports, but how many sports photographers shoot indoor only and not field sports?
Unfortunately it has been confirmed that the 1D X will NOT focus at f/8 on the center point like prior 1D bodies (direct question from Arthur Morris to Chuck Westfall). ...
Thanks Jay. To elaborate, it appears that this is the source for that statement:
The full Chuck Westfall comment is; "AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. On the plus side, consider the fact that with most f/4 lenses including the 400 DO, 500/4L IS and IS II, and 600/4L IS and IS II, you now have 41 cross-type AF points plus color and face detection, whereas you had no cross-type points and no color or face detection during AF with previous EOS-1 series DSLRs using the same lenses, not to mention a significantly wider AF coverage area from left to right."
... So two major negatives so far to the new one-body-to-rule-them-all:
1) Wildlife photographers (particularly BiF folks) can't use any teleconverters on their 800mm and can't use a 2X on anything other than f/2.8 lenses. You really gotta wonder what Canon was thinking on this one...
2) Sports photographers shooting field sports take a hit on effective reach unless they are shooting older bodies. It should be an upgrade for indoor sports, but how many sports photographers shoot indoor only and not field sports?
Jay
I agree with your assessment.
While I'm sure that some will try "taping" the appropriate pins on their teleconverters, in an attempt to "fool" the camera's programming and allow AF at effective f8 apertures, I doubt that it will be completely satisfactory.
I don't think that Canon understands how alienating this singular change might be, and how important the f8 AF capability is to some.
Full-frame isn't ideal for birders anyway. I can't see Canon abandoning the wildlife market because they have too much invested. For example, why would they have created the TC2.0 MKIII, then eliminated almost the entire market for it? And this would be a dealth-sentence for the Canon 800mm F5.6 lens which has only been out for a year or two; you get more reach and flexibility with a 600 F4 and TC1.4 combination. I would suggest there's a piece of the puzzle that's missing here, possibly a new high-end crop-body camera that will AF at F8, with great weather sealing and other pro features. That would be amazing for wildlife. The 7D is already great for wildlife, but this new body would be even better.
Remember the 1DIII?
I think the hand-wringing about the move to FF and "only" 18mp is invalid. The 1DX has slightly higher pixel density than the 1DIII. Apply the 1.3x crop yourself and you have 10.7mp left. Pretty sure a few birders and sports shooters were using 1DIII's and 400's with no TC and having success. If anything the 1DX only makes your long primes more versatile as you will be able to cover a greater depth of the scene, while getting a wider view out the viewfinder.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Pretty sure a few birders and sports shooters were using 1DIII's and 400's with no TC and having success.
Sports yes, birders no. Unless they're shooting birds at feeders or in rookeries, a combination like that is not nearly sufficient for a serious birder. Take a look on the the site that Ziggy referenced for example and check the EXIFs on what most folks are using: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/forumdisplay.php/2-Avian . The ones who are using 1.3 crop cameras are often using F8 combinations, and rarely will you see FF setups. Reach is king for shooting birds and you can never have enough of it.
Very surprising move for Canon, but it's definitely the right move. Kudos to them for listening to their customers. Can't wait to check this camera out
Very surprising move for Canon, but it's definitely the right move. Kudos to them for listening to their customers. Can't wait to check this camera out
I don't find this body puzzling at all if it is seen as a specialist tool. The 1D series has always comprised bodies with different applications. As I've said, I expect that this specialisation will become more extreme in 1D bodies, in particular as the technology in individual components becomes more developed. In the past any improvement in any component was an overall improvement to all bodies and uses, but now sometimes the cutting edge in a particular component is undesirable for some uses, and examples of that are given on this very page. To take advantage of tech progress in individual components increasingly means gear specialisation, especially at the top level of gear where there is clear demand and the extra expense of cutting edge tech and specialisation can be met. This is why modularity in MF is such a big deal at this top level. And that is what is in Canon's sights, I suggest. They can with a new set of 1D specialist bodies and their existing single range of high performance lenses directly challenge the MF scene at a lower pricepoint per outfit. It seems to me that there is a very large number of photographers who are on the edge of crossing to the new deal MF, especially now it is cheaper and more usable, digital and integratable. The 1D series is shaping up to be a real practical and economic alternative to it.
I expect that this trend will increasingly leave the mid level generalist body behind because obviously advances in the tech of various components, apart from being an order of magnitude more expensive, do not necessarily make for improvement for the user when those components are lumped together in a generalist body. The mid level generalist body is now a dead end as far as the market is concerned. Canon will make money at the toy level because it can manipulate the fashion factor there endlessly, and at the top level through cutting edge specialisation.
I think that those of you who want to get a piece of what the new 1D series offers in a single generic body are going to be left wanting. You will have to go there. Which is what Canon wants, because that is a major area for the growth of their business. The 18MP of the 1DX is the clear proof that Canon has at this level distanced itself from the mid level generalist values and culture. It is this distancing from mid level expectations that has left the forums everywhere full of shock and incredulity! And resentment? Yes, there is that here on this page also! From the generalists. For the pro specialists things are as expected - and desired!
I don't find this body puzzling at all if it is seen as a specialist tool. The 1D series has always comprised bodies with different applications. As I've said, I expect that this specialisation will become more extreme in 1D bodies, in particular as the technology in individual components becomes more developed. In the past any improvement in any component was an overall improvement to all bodies and uses, but now sometimes the cutting edge in a particular component is undesirable for some uses, and examples of that are given on this very page. To take advantage of tech progress in individual components increasingly means gear specialisation, especially at the top level of gear where there is clear demand and the extra expense of cutting edge tech and specialisation can be met. This is why modularity in MF is such a big deal at this top level. And that is what is in Canon's sights, I suggest. They can with a new set of 1D specialist bodies and their existing single range of high performance lenses directly challenge the MF scene at a lower pricepoint per outfit. It seems to me that there is a very large number of photographers who are on the edge of crossing to the new deal MF, especially now it is cheaper and more usable, digital and integratable. The 1D series is shaping up to be a real practical and economic alternative to it.
Neil
Surely the opposite is true. This is one body, replacing 2. It's more of an all-rounder. It doesn't make sense to have 2 top end lines, when they sell so many more of the 'prosumer' cameras such as 5D2 and 7D. Also they obviously feel the technology has advanced to the extent that one camera can do it all (or at least all the things they need it to do).
If they put that sensor into a 5D body, that would make an ideal camera for wedding photographers, and for video too as it sounds like the sensor has been designed with that in mind.
Surely the opposite is true. This is one body, replacing 2. It's more of an all-rounder. It doesn't make sense to have 2 top end lines, when they sell so many more of the 'prosumer' cameras such as 5D2 and 7D. Also they obviously feel the technology has advanced to the extent that one camera can do it all (or at least all the things they need it to do).
If they put that sensor into a 5D body, that would make an ideal camera for wedding photographers, and for video too as it sounds like the sensor has been designed with that in mind.
As I expected, there is increasing specialisation for purpose at the top level - pro sport, pro wildlife, pro landscape, pro indoor. The modularisation which I expected to begin to appear about now is not happening. Still multiple hitech bodies with a single range of lotech lenses. This fits within the current manufacturing resources and shrunken economies, and is a major challenge to the revitalised MF market. I expect a version of the 5D at this level. ~$6-10K
I expect further rationalisation and constriction of the mid-level. Sophisticated do-it-all broad application bodies which still attract pros, but directed at the far more numerous and lower spending serious amateur and workaday photography labourer like small business wedding photographers. Perhaps a disappearance of the XXD series into the supermarket level, and a 5D + 7D = 8D. ~$4K I am at this level and I don't want to pay more, and I don't want to continue to be torn over the 5D-7D divide, which I think has sent heaps of customers hurrying over to the D700.
The low/supermarket level will be throw-away fun toys. ~$100-$1000 (the most unsustainable market, you have to see the pile of discarded out-of-fashion product to believe it!) to make a fashion statement with gimmicks, MPs and whatever features are cool second by second.
1D a, b, c, d
8D
toys
Neil
I think this *is* the first part of a specialised pro range.
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range.
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate.
Expect all three to be fully weather-sealed (as per the Nikon competition, and the fact that even the current 7D has fairly good weather sealing) and the 5D and 7D lines to be moved up a price point to reflect their new capabilities. Which, of course, leaves room for a basic full-frame camera at a consumer price point.
http://www.imperialstudios.biz - Imperial Studios - Landscape, Travel and Fine Art Photography. Also happens to be my website, a work very much in progress... prints available here if anyone wants my work.
I think this *is* the first part of a specialised pro range.
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range.
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate.
Expect all three to be fully weather-sealed (as per the Nikon competition, and the fact that even the current 7D has fairly good weather sealing) and the 5D and 7D lines to be moved up a price point to reflect their new capabilities. Which, of course, leaves room for a basic full-frame camera at a consumer price point.
Agreed. Perhaps a 6d - a (relatively affordable) FF, small-form, portrait/landscape camera without quite as many bells/whistles as the 5d3 in the above speculation - similar to the 7d's position now as an "all rounder" crop camera, only FF and emphasising ISO and best IQ rather than fps and best AF (although it would be nice if it had the 7d's AF too! ).
That would make a very nice lineup with the Rebel entry-level cameras and 60d as viable alternatives at lower price points:
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range. Best possible video. ?$4K
6D: FF, good ISO performance and decent AF. Emphasis on IQ instead of speed. Share batteries with 7d/2. ?$2800
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate. ?$2000K
X0d: All-round hobbyist/general-purpose camera. ?$1000-1500
Rebels: entry-level ?$700-1000
I think this *is* the first part of a specialised pro range.
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range.
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate.
Expect all three to be fully weather-sealed (as per the Nikon competition, and the fact that even the current 7D has fairly good weather sealing) and the 5D and 7D lines to be moved up a price point to reflect their new capabilities. Which, of course, leaves room for a basic full-frame camera at a consumer price point.
Great post. I mostly concur, but the 7D2 would have to have an AF as sophisticated as the 1Dx, actually more so because it needs to AF at F8 as well. The AF system of the 1D line has traditionally been a differentiator over the other bodies. That's what's making me wonder if there's something else in the works. I would be ecstatic if Canon put a 1D class autofocus in the 7D, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
edited October 20, 2011
I'm sorry, but I just don't see high-end photographers, (maybe landscape shooters who work for National Geographic or something?) ...I just don't see them SETTLING for "usable AF, slow frame rate"...
I still see a HUGE opening for a 1Ds 3 replacement, with 30-40 megapixels, and GOOD AF, DECENT FPS, (5-6) and the full compliment of professional functions and features.
Okay keep in mind that what I am about to say, I don't say to be a snob, but purely out of curiosity:
Of those who are predicting a singular 1-series and the 5-series "taking over" the high-res market, ...how many of you have actually SHOT WITH a flagship 1-series, more than just holding it at the store once? Have you shot with a 1-series professionally? Full-time? Landscapes, or general photojournalism, or...?
Or have you mostly just used the 5-series and other cameras, and are therefore making these predictions based on that experience alone?
I haven't shot THAT much with the 1-series, since I'm a Nikon user, but I do have my fair share of experience with both flagships from both Canon and Nikon. And let me tell you, the difference in function and control is worth it. I'm 100% positive that there are PLENTY of pros out there who will not settle for a "mere" 5D mk3. Canon can NOT get away with merely cranking up the megapixels, ISO, video, and AF in the current 5-series body configuration.
To fully replace the 1Ds, Canon will have to bust out the mythical "3D" body. Remember the days of film? None of Canon's EOS 1 or EOS 3 bodies came with the vertical grip permanently attached, actually. In fact the Nikon F5 is the ONLY full-size film camera that I know of.
So my point is that it is not impossible. Canon will just have to do a LOT more than you think. Basically, it needs to be a 1Ds without the vertical grip, NOT a mere 5D mk3.
Again, if you've never actually shot with a 1-series, you probably won't know what I mean on this one. But there are just sooo many flagship features that they withhold from the 5-series. Off the top of my head I can think of the bracketing, the copyright info input, the one-click 100% zooming for image playback, the battery life gauge, dual card slots, and a few other things. They may not seem like mission-critical features to the average user, but all I'm saying is that there are enough pros out there for such a camera to be a good idea.
Nikon, on the other hand, is ALREADY in a position to release a "D3X replacing" D800 with 36 megapixels. Why? Because the D700 / D800 series is already a "mini flagship". The controls are practically identical to the 3-series, the only difference being the 2-3 controls that go down near the vertical grip. They're already using the flagship AF, the flagship weather sealing, the ABILITY to hit 8 FPS with a grip, etc. etc.
Anyways, just food for thought. I'm not a fanboy of either brand, in fact I could write 3x longer essays about what is WRONG with both Nikon and Canon. I'm just a photographer hoping for the most improvement possible in the most affordable body possible. For both brands. :-)
Of those who are predicting a singular 1-series and the 5-series "taking over" the high-res market, ...how many of you have actually SHOT WITH a flagship 1-series, more than just holding it at the store once? Have you shot with a 1-series professionally? Full-time? Landscapes, or general photojournalism, or...?
Or have you mostly just used the 5-series and other cameras, and are therefore making these predictions based on that experience alone?
My kit for pro sports shooting includes a 1D4, 1D3 (as backup) and a 5D2. Although I like the build, shutter crispness, and customizability of the 1D series, I get the majority of my keepers from my 5D2. Why? Because the image quality is demonstrably better. I think I am in a small minority of photographers who place IQ far above everything else. I rarely use burst mode, even in pro sports, relying instead on timing. I'm willing to put up with the clunky feel of my 5D2 just to get that IQ.
If Canon did nothing other that make a 5D3 with a more solid feel and more AF points, I'd take that any day over a 1D.
That said, I will certainly give the 1Dx a thorough test drive!!
I shoot landscapes, as well as some wildlife/travel work.
I used a 1Ds3 for a while (borrowed for an extended period), then bought the 5D2 when it was released - at two-thirds the weight and size, with the same IQ, it was much more convenient.
I also swapped my 1D3 for the 7D, for long telephoto use when shooting wildlife - I have just as good an AF system (although the 1D4 is better), almost the same rate of fire and three times as many pixels on target. Sure, each pixel of the 1D3 is better, but you land much fewer on the target.
Sure, I had a hole in my lineup (full frame with good AF, for photojournalistic/street work) but, given my style of photography, didn't miss it all that much. With the 1Dx, this hole could be easily filled - for these purposes, you don't really need a truckload of megapixels (in fact, since you take a lot of shots, discarding many, file size could become an issue). The high ISO capability, though, is more than welcome.
Besides, at present, the ultra high-res market is owned by medium format digital and large format film (with the 5D2 and D3x being comparable to medium format film). These cameras are slugs - slow to set up, slow to shoot, often no AF, manual aperture, etc.
Now, if only Hasselblad would release a digital XPAN, or the Leica M10 had a 40MP sensor with no antialiasing filter...
I'm sorry, but I just don't see high-end photographers, (maybe landscape shooters who work for National Geographic or something?) ...I just don't see them SETTLING for "usable AF, slow frame rate"...
I still see a HUGE opening for a 1Ds 3 replacement, with 30-40 megapixels, and GOOD AF, DECENT FPS, (5-6) and the full compliment of professional functions and features.
Okay keep in mind that what I am about to say, I don't say to be a snob, but purely out of curiosity:
Of those who are predicting a singular 1-series and the 5-series "taking over" the high-res market, ...how many of you have actually SHOT WITH a flagship 1-series, more than just holding it at the store once? Have you shot with a 1-series professionally? Full-time? Landscapes, or general photojournalism, or...?
Or have you mostly just used the 5-series and other cameras, and are therefore making these predictions based on that experience alone?
I haven't shot THAT much with the 1-series, since I'm a Nikon user, but I do have my fair share of experience with both flagships from both Canon and Nikon. And let me tell you, the difference in function and control is worth it. I'm 100% positive that there are PLENTY of pros out there who will not settle for a "mere" 5D mk3. Canon can NOT get away with merely cranking up the megapixels, ISO, video, and AF in the current 5-series body configuration.
To fully replace the 1Ds, Canon will have to bust out the mythical "3D" body. Remember the days of film? None of Canon's EOS 1 or EOS 3 bodies came with the vertical grip permanently attached, actually. In fact the Nikon F5 is the ONLY full-size film camera that I know of.
So my point is that it is not impossible. Canon will just have to do a LOT more than you think. Basically, it needs to be a 1Ds without the vertical grip, NOT a mere 5D mk3.
Again, if you've never actually shot with a 1-series, you probably won't know what I mean on this one. But there are just sooo many flagship features that they withhold from the 5-series. Off the top of my head I can think of the bracketing, the copyright info input, the one-click 100% zooming for image playback, the battery life gauge, dual card slots, and a few other things. They may not seem like mission-critical features to the average user, but all I'm saying is that there are enough pros out there for such a camera to be a good idea.
Nikon, on the other hand, is ALREADY in a position to release a "D3X replacing" D800 with 36 megapixels. Why? Because the D700 / D800 series is already a "mini flagship". The controls are practically identical to the 3-series, the only difference being the 2-3 controls that go down near the vertical grip. They're already using the flagship AF, the flagship weather sealing, the ABILITY to hit 8 FPS with a grip, etc. etc.
Anyways, just food for thought. I'm not a fanboy of either brand, in fact I could write 3x longer essays about what is WRONG with both Nikon and Canon. I'm just a photographer hoping for the most improvement possible in the most affordable body possible. For both brands. :-)
=Matt=
http://www.imperialstudios.biz - Imperial Studios - Landscape, Travel and Fine Art Photography. Also happens to be my website, a work very much in progress... prints available here if anyone wants my work.
Comments
As has been mentioned above, there is the option to swap in some specialised components into a basic body, essentially one body but with application specific components.
Judging by threads @ DG alone there are people who are on the verge of moving to MF or something like the 1DX. I suspect this would define the majority of customers for this level of product.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
The previous 1D/1Ds series bodies "do" provide for autofocus at f8 effective apertures, but only at the center AF sensor position. I suspect that the 1D-X will be similar. All other Canon cameras are limited to f5.6 effective apertures or faster.
(I did find this information quoted at one of the Canon corporate sites, but I can't find the link just now.)
Here is one link to the description:
http://www.garryridsdale.com/news18957.html
... and the pertinent text:
"The MK4 offers 39 high precision cross type AF (horizontal and vertical) points when a lens with a max aperture of f2.8 or more is used or when combined with an extender. The cross type sensors vertical line sensitivity is approx two times more than the horizontal line sensitivity. When using an f4 lens, say the 600 f4, then only the centre AF point is usable as a cross type with the other 44 horizontal sensitive only. At f5.6 all the AF points are horizontal sensitive and at f8 only the centre AF can be used with horizontal sensitivity."
I believe that the same basic f8 sensitivity for the center AF position and f8 exists back to at least the 1D MKII bodies.
I can vouch that f8 effective aperture autofocus using a teleconverter is sketchy to poor AF perfomance and accuracy in many zoom lens cases, but autofocus using a "prime" lens and teleconverter can be acceptable, especially in good light. The Canon EF 70-200mm, f4L IS USM and a ver 1 Canon EF 2.0x teleconverter was acceptable by my tests with high-contrast subjects in good light and at the 200mm setting.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
So two major negatives so far to the new one-body-to-rule-them-all:
1) Wildlife photographers (particularly BiF folks) can't use any teleconverters on their 800mm and can't use a 2X on anything other than f/2.8 lenses. You really gotta wonder what Canon was thinking on this one...
2) Sports photographers shooting field sports take a hit on effective reach unless they are shooting older bodies. It should be an upgrade for indoor sports, but how many sports photographers shoot indoor only and not field sports?
Jay
Thanks Jay. To elaborate, it appears that this is the source for that statement:
http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/90630-Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-Camera-Body-Details?p=731924&viewfull=1#post731924
The full Chuck Westfall comment is; "AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. On the plus side, consider the fact that with most f/4 lenses including the 400 DO, 500/4L IS and IS II, and 600/4L IS and IS II, you now have 41 cross-type AF points plus color and face detection, whereas you had no cross-type points and no color or face detection during AF with previous EOS-1 series DSLRs using the same lenses, not to mention a significantly wider AF coverage area from left to right."
While I'm sure that some will try "taping" the appropriate pins on their teleconverters, in an attempt to "fool" the camera's programming and allow AF at effective f8 apertures, I doubt that it will be completely satisfactory.
I don't think that Canon understands how alienating this singular change might be, and how important the f8 AF capability is to some.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
"You" are welcome to try.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Link to my Smugmug site
I think the hand-wringing about the move to FF and "only" 18mp is invalid. The 1DX has slightly higher pixel density than the 1DIII. Apply the 1.3x crop yourself and you have 10.7mp left. Pretty sure a few birders and sports shooters were using 1DIII's and 400's with no TC and having success. If anything the 1DX only makes your long primes more versatile as you will be able to cover a greater depth of the scene, while getting a wider view out the viewfinder.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
The bad news..............they said they needed money and couldn't accept a kidney. :cry
Sam
Arthur Morris, one of the top birders in the country called the decision to drop F8 AF on the 1Dx "brutal". Here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/90630-Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-Camera-Body-Details?p=731961&viewfull=1#post731961
Yes, this is a big deal for birders.
Link to my Smugmug site
They wanted both kidneys, Sam. At least that is what they told me when I called!
www.tednghiem.com
Fair enough.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Your professional online camera gear rental store
Follow us on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/borrowlenses
And I can't wait to rent it from you!
www.tednghiem.com
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I think that was to be expected. ha!
www.tednghiem.com
I expect that this trend will increasingly leave the mid level generalist body behind because obviously advances in the tech of various components, apart from being an order of magnitude more expensive, do not necessarily make for improvement for the user when those components are lumped together in a generalist body. The mid level generalist body is now a dead end as far as the market is concerned. Canon will make money at the toy level because it can manipulate the fashion factor there endlessly, and at the top level through cutting edge specialisation.
I think that those of you who want to get a piece of what the new 1D series offers in a single generic body are going to be left wanting. You will have to go there. Which is what Canon wants, because that is a major area for the growth of their business. The 18MP of the 1DX is the clear proof that Canon has at this level distanced itself from the mid level generalist values and culture. It is this distancing from mid level expectations that has left the forums everywhere full of shock and incredulity! And resentment? Yes, there is that here on this page also! From the generalists. For the pro specialists things are as expected - and desired!
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Surely the opposite is true. This is one body, replacing 2. It's more of an all-rounder. It doesn't make sense to have 2 top end lines, when they sell so many more of the 'prosumer' cameras such as 5D2 and 7D. Also they obviously feel the technology has advanced to the extent that one camera can do it all (or at least all the things they need it to do).
If they put that sensor into a 5D body, that would make an ideal camera for wedding photographers, and for video too as it sounds like the sensor has been designed with that in mind.
Yes agree, it's possibly so!
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
I think this *is* the first part of a specialised pro range.
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range.
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate.
Expect all three to be fully weather-sealed (as per the Nikon competition, and the fact that even the current 7D has fairly good weather sealing) and the 5D and 7D lines to be moved up a price point to reflect their new capabilities. Which, of course, leaves room for a basic full-frame camera at a consumer price point.
Agreed. Perhaps a 6d - a (relatively affordable) FF, small-form, portrait/landscape camera without quite as many bells/whistles as the 5d3 in the above speculation - similar to the 7d's position now as an "all rounder" crop camera, only FF and emphasising ISO and best IQ rather than fps and best AF (although it would be nice if it had the 7d's AF too!
That would make a very nice lineup with the Rebel entry-level cameras and 60d as viable alternatives at lower price points:
1Dx: Photojournalism, sports, action. Great AF, great high ISO, (relative) low resolution, fast frame rate. $6800.
5D3: Landscape and studio work. Useable AF, ultra-high resolution, slow frame rate. Possibly 16-bit output and improved dynamic range. Best possible video. ?$4K
6D: FF, good ISO performance and decent AF. Emphasis on IQ instead of speed. Share batteries with 7d/2. ?$2800
7D2: Wildlife and long telephoto, for getting as many pixels on target as possible. Great AF, ultra-high pixel density, crop sensor, fast frame rate. ?$2000K
X0d: All-round hobbyist/general-purpose camera. ?$1000-1500
Rebels: entry-level ?$700-1000
Great post. I mostly concur, but the 7D2 would have to have an AF as sophisticated as the 1Dx, actually more so because it needs to AF at F8 as well. The AF system of the 1D line has traditionally been a differentiator over the other bodies. That's what's making me wonder if there's something else in the works. I would be ecstatic if Canon put a 1D class autofocus in the 7D, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Link to my Smugmug site
I still see a HUGE opening for a 1Ds 3 replacement, with 30-40 megapixels, and GOOD AF, DECENT FPS, (5-6) and the full compliment of professional functions and features.
Okay keep in mind that what I am about to say, I don't say to be a snob, but purely out of curiosity:
Of those who are predicting a singular 1-series and the 5-series "taking over" the high-res market, ...how many of you have actually SHOT WITH a flagship 1-series, more than just holding it at the store once? Have you shot with a 1-series professionally? Full-time? Landscapes, or general photojournalism, or...?
Or have you mostly just used the 5-series and other cameras, and are therefore making these predictions based on that experience alone?
I haven't shot THAT much with the 1-series, since I'm a Nikon user, but I do have my fair share of experience with both flagships from both Canon and Nikon. And let me tell you, the difference in function and control is worth it. I'm 100% positive that there are PLENTY of pros out there who will not settle for a "mere" 5D mk3. Canon can NOT get away with merely cranking up the megapixels, ISO, video, and AF in the current 5-series body configuration.
To fully replace the 1Ds, Canon will have to bust out the mythical "3D" body. Remember the days of film? None of Canon's EOS 1 or EOS 3 bodies came with the vertical grip permanently attached, actually. In fact the Nikon F5 is the ONLY full-size film camera that I know of.
So my point is that it is not impossible. Canon will just have to do a LOT more than you think. Basically, it needs to be a 1Ds without the vertical grip, NOT a mere 5D mk3.
Again, if you've never actually shot with a 1-series, you probably won't know what I mean on this one. But there are just sooo many flagship features that they withhold from the 5-series. Off the top of my head I can think of the bracketing, the copyright info input, the one-click 100% zooming for image playback, the battery life gauge, dual card slots, and a few other things. They may not seem like mission-critical features to the average user, but all I'm saying is that there are enough pros out there for such a camera to be a good idea.
Nikon, on the other hand, is ALREADY in a position to release a "D3X replacing" D800 with 36 megapixels. Why? Because the D700 / D800 series is already a "mini flagship". The controls are practically identical to the 3-series, the only difference being the 2-3 controls that go down near the vertical grip. They're already using the flagship AF, the flagship weather sealing, the ABILITY to hit 8 FPS with a grip, etc. etc.
Anyways, just food for thought. I'm not a fanboy of either brand, in fact I could write 3x longer essays about what is WRONG with both Nikon and Canon. I'm just a photographer hoping for the most improvement possible in the most affordable body possible. For both brands. :-)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
(You know I'm one of your fanclub Matt - just can't help teasing a little!!)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
My kit for pro sports shooting includes a 1D4, 1D3 (as backup) and a 5D2. Although I like the build, shutter crispness, and customizability of the 1D series, I get the majority of my keepers from my 5D2. Why? Because the image quality is demonstrably better. I think I am in a small minority of photographers who place IQ far above everything else. I rarely use burst mode, even in pro sports, relying instead on timing. I'm willing to put up with the clunky feel of my 5D2 just to get that IQ.
If Canon did nothing other that make a 5D3 with a more solid feel and more AF points, I'd take that any day over a 1D.
That said, I will certainly give the 1Dx a thorough test drive!!
I used a 1Ds3 for a while (borrowed for an extended period), then bought the 5D2 when it was released - at two-thirds the weight and size, with the same IQ, it was much more convenient.
I also swapped my 1D3 for the 7D, for long telephoto use when shooting wildlife - I have just as good an AF system (although the 1D4 is better), almost the same rate of fire and three times as many pixels on target. Sure, each pixel of the 1D3 is better, but you land much fewer on the target.
Sure, I had a hole in my lineup (full frame with good AF, for photojournalistic/street work) but, given my style of photography, didn't miss it all that much. With the 1Dx, this hole could be easily filled - for these purposes, you don't really need a truckload of megapixels (in fact, since you take a lot of shots, discarding many, file size could become an issue). The high ISO capability, though, is more than welcome.
Besides, at present, the ultra high-res market is owned by medium format digital and large format film (with the 5D2 and D3x being comparable to medium format film). These cameras are slugs - slow to set up, slow to shoot, often no AF, manual aperture, etc.
Now, if only Hasselblad would release a digital XPAN, or the Leica M10 had a 40MP sensor with no antialiasing filter...