5DIII: ok, I'll play along with the latest rumor

jmphotocraft · January 19, 2012

http://www.canonrumors.com/category/photography/canon-5d-mark-iii/

Bullet points are:

GPS Enabled
Less than 19 AF points
Eye control autofocus
5fps

Sounds like maybe the 9 point AF system from the 60D, maybe plus 6 invisible helper points around the center point. Well, that's a start, but the next 5D really deserves the 19pt AF from the 7D.

Older canonrumors posts say it will not be a crazy high megapixel camera. This implies it will get the 1DX sensor.

I suppose I would jump for this, but I have to wonder... maybe they would make the 5DIII a super high-mp camera (30+) and maybe they would put the 1DX sensor in the 7DII?? THAT would be my dream camera. Of course, this would mean 7DII buyers wouldn't be able to use EF-S lenses, but that doesn't matter to me.

divamum · January 19, 2012

I would LOOOOVVEEE to have eye-controlled focus again! My film Eos had it. It wasn't perfect (and takes a little setting up), but when it was rolling it was *awesome*.

Question is, of course, how solid a rumour this is. I'm not believing anything yet...

reyvee61 · January 20, 2012

Isn't the sensor in the 1DX a full frame?
Not likely they would put that in the 7D....
I keep hearing crazy rumors that the Nikon D700 predecessor will be more that 30 MP...I don't but that

jmphotocraft · January 20, 2012

reyvee61 wrote: »

Isn't the sensor in the 1DX a full frame?
Not likely they would put that in the 7D....

Yes, 1DX = full frame. Some people think there could be a split in the 5D line, with one high-res (30+mp) body for landscape and studio, and one with the 1DX sensor for sports and low light.

I keep hearing crazy rumors that the Nikon D700 predecessor will be more that 30 MP...I don't but that

Successor. 36mp seems like a done deal according to all the rumors I've seen. Same pixel size as the D7000, but in FF.

Matthew Saville · January 20, 2012

The moment they start talking about bringing Eye-control back, I know it's a fake rumor. I'd love to see them develop the technology, of course, but I just don't think it's going to happen. It wasn't good enough, not mainstream enough, and just an added complication IMO.

The "less than 19 AF points" spec is disappointing, though, if true. Which is another reason I'm hoping this rumor is NOT true... ;-)

=Matt=

NeilL · January 20, 2012

It sounds like a Nikon rumour to me!

wink

Neil

divamum · January 20, 2012

Did you ever use the eye control, Matt? It wasn't perfect, but it did work , and it was "mainstream" enough to trickle down to the ElanIIe (which is what I had), so it wasn't only in the higher-end model.

Not trying to be contentious, but I don't think it's such a far-fetched thing to consider reviving - the technology 20 years down the line would probably significantly improve it too, I'd guess

As for mp - bleah. I hope it's no more pixel-dense than it is now, or it's going to KILL anybody with an older computer!!

Matthew Saville · January 20, 2012

divamum wrote: »

Did you ever use the eye control, Matt? It wasn't perfect, but it did work , and it was "mainstream" enough to trickle down to the ElanIIe (which is what I had), so it wasn't only in the higher-end model.

Not trying to be contentious, but I don't think it's such a far-fetched thing to consider reviving - the technology 20 years down the line would probably significantly improve it too, I'd guess

As for mp - bleah. I hope it's no more pixel-dense than it is now, or it's going to KILL anybody with an older computer!!

Yes, I tried it on both the Elan and the EOS 3, and yes it works however it's just kinda risky in a high-pressure evironment. If you're at the brink of a critical moment and your eye twitches or the sensor reads you wrong, you miss the shot entirely.

I'll admit that it is entirely possible. But on the other hand, I just wanted to point out that there has ALWAYS been talk (and "official" rumors) of bringing Eye-Control back, and it always turns out to be a "wishful thinking rumor".

We'll find out soon enough! If they do bring back Eye-Control, I'm sure it would be much improved, and a neat function to have. I just wouldn't use it in professional work probably...

=Matt=

DavidTO · January 21, 2012

Slight tangent: the s100 is GPS enabled, and I'm finding it pretty much useless for the way I shoot with a P&S camera, which is power up, shoot some stuff, power down, repeat. The GPS can't find the satellites quick enough to be of much use to me. I wish it were useful, I would like to have the photos geotagged.

divamum · January 21, 2012

Fair enough Matt. Yeah, as it was Of Olde, the eye focus probably wouldn't be reliable enough to use for fast-moving critical situations. It was a pain to set up, too (especially if you wear glasses), although once you calibrated it right it did work well for me. Of course, the beauty is that it's something you don't HAVE to use it - if they include it and it doesn't add squillions to the price (and isn't simply a marketing sop to mask inadequate general-purpose AF), I think it would be a great added extra

My own "must have" 5dIII wishlist (since I'm waiting to jump to FF until I see what they come up with this time):

- 7d or equivalent AF (don't care so much about sports-useable speed/fps etc, but would hate to have to go back to fewer points when I upgrade to FF, which is what's held me back from getting a 5dII in the recent price-drops - the more points the better for my uses - and I also use the 7d's "spot focus" function a lot)
- built-in flash commander (and improve the one used in the 7d, which locks up if you use it at full speed, although it is still VERY useful to have it in-camera for those occasions you weren't planning to shoot OCF and don't have triggers with you)
- awesome high ISO (current sensor would be fine for me, but if new sensor, high ISO function over pixel density for me!)
- button customizations as per the 7d - I LOVE being able to set up my camera according to how *I* shoot
- (and this is a biggie for me) keep it in a reasonable price bracket. Unless a "lower end" FF camera is introduced around the $2200-800 bracket, leave the 5-series near that same price point instead of the $4K + of the 1-series. Make it a companion camera to the 7d rather than the 1dx.

I'm perfectly happy with my 7d, but FF is my next planned upgrade, and I do hope that the next release will be viable for me. I don't want a huge MP studio camera, but the existing 5dII with a few tweaks... mainly 7d-equivalent AF and customisation

Matthew Saville · January 21, 2012

divamum wrote: »

Fair enough Matt. Yeah, as it was Of Olde, the eye focus probably wouldn't be reliable enough to use for fast-moving critical situations. It was a pain to set up, too (especially if you wear glasses), although once you calibrated it right it did work well for me. Of course, the beauty is that it's something you don't HAVE to use it - if they include it and it doesn't add squillions to the price (and isn't simply a marketing sop to mask inadequate general-purpose AF), I think it would be a great added extra

My own "must have" 5dIII wishlist (since I'm waiting to jump to FF until I see what they come up with this time):

- 7d or equivalent AF (don't care so much about sports-useable speed/fps etc, but would hate to have to go back to fewer points when I upgrade to FF, which is what's held me back from getting a 5dII in the recent price-drops - the more points the better for my uses - and I also use the 7d's "spot focus" function a lot)
- built-in flash commander (and improve the one used in the 7d, which locks up if you use it at full speed, although it is still VERY useful to have it in-camera for those occasions you weren't planning to shoot OCF and don't have triggers with you)
- awesome high ISO (current sensor would be fine for me, but if new sensor, high ISO function over pixel density for me!)
- button customizations as per the 7d - I LOVE being able to set up my camera according to how *I* shoot
- (and this is a biggie for me) keep it in a reasonable price bracket. Unless a "lower end" FF camera is introduced around the $2200-800 bracket, leave the 5-series near that same price point instead of the $4K + of the 1-series. Make it a companion camera to the 7d rather than the 1dx.

I'm perfectly happy with my 7d, but FF is my next planned upgrade, and I do hope that the next release will be viable for me. I don't want a huge MP studio camera, but the existing 5dII with a few tweaks... mainly 7d-equivalent AF and customisation

Honestly, it sounds like you want a D700. :-( Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath for EITHER a pop-up flash nor 19-point AF on the 5D mk3. I think Canon has made their lineup decision very clear- 1.) Pop-up flashes are just too un-professional for a "dignified" camera such as a 5-series, (which I think is BS) ...and 2.) Great AF in an affordable full-frame body would harm flagship sales too much. (Again, BS, just look at the D700's success)

Of course there is still hope, at least in the AF department. Even though rumors / leaks are still putting the 5D mk3 at LESS than 19 points, I'm stil hoping that the off-center points will at least be cross-type, and that they'll be dramatically improved, along the lines of previous 1-series performance. But unfortunately I'm still getting strong "wishful thinking" vibes from that whole notion...

=Matt=

ThatCanonGuy · January 21, 2012

I think that a pop-up flash makes the a camera less weatherproof.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 5DIII had 30mp or so with 7D AF. Canon merged the 1Ds/1D (1D X), and the 1D X is only 18mp. Unless they plan on releasing an $8 K flagship 40mp 1Ds4 (which probably wouldn't sell much), they'll probably make the 5D3 the new landscape camera for those who need more MP's than the 1D X.
It seems like Nikon is doing that with the D4 and the D800.

Edit: if they do this, and price it at 3500 or so, then the rumors about an affordable FF "6D" would make sense.

Matthew Saville · January 22, 2012

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

I think that a pop-up flash makes the a camera less weatherproof.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 5DIII had 30mp or so with 7D AF. Canon merged the 1Ds/1D (1D X), and the 1D X is only 18mp. Unless they plan on releasing an $8 K flagship 40mp 1Ds4 (which probably wouldn't sell much), they'll probably make the 5D3 the new landscape camera for those who need more MP's than the 1D X.
It seems like Nikon is doing that with the D4 and the D800.

Edit: if they do this, and price it at 3500 or so, then the rumors about an affordable FF "6D" would make sense.

That's where my money is. With the 1DX at "just" 18 megapixels and the D4 at only 16, plus the 99.9% real 36 MP D800, it all adds up to a ~32-34 megapixel 5D mk3. And I'm hoping for some sort of 7D-like AF.

I think that, considering the "tough economy", we're going to spend at least one or two generations without $8K camera bodies.

And if the 5D mk3 is going to "replace" the 1Ds mk3, it is certainly going to have to step up it's game in the departments of responsiveness and weather sealing.

And yep, I'm guessing the 5D mk3 and D800 will be in the range of $3500, with "affordable" / prosumer type FF / FX bodies in the $2000-$2500 range.

The good part is, that opens up the window for the awesome 1DX and D4 sensors to end up in affordable bodies. The bummer is, it could be in a 60D / D7000 like body, which for me is professionally un-acceptable.

I think it's ironic that the hard-working professionals who need an affordable body are going to have to put up with megapixels that 90% of them don't need or want, while the consumers who LOVE megapixels are getting the better (but lower res) sensor. Oh well! I can still see the reasons behind offering the high-res, pro-grade body of course. It all makes sense, this just isn't the optimal generation for the specific line of work I do. My only hope at this point is to become really successful

and just afford a D4 some day. :-P

=Matt=

NeilL · January 22, 2012

...

somewhere over the rainbow... is the ideal world of specs...

Neil

FearNothing321 · January 23, 2012

http://blog.apertureacademy.com/2012/01/canon-200-400mm-and-600mm-prototype.html

I saw this on BorrowLenses facebook page

Possible 5d Mark III sighting

David_S85 · January 23, 2012

^ Yes, it is very possible and encouraging. Large pentaprism area and no built-in flash. The grip is an accessory, so not a 1D series. The photos there can be clicked to display much larger sizes to pour over. Canonrumors also linked to the same blog.

ThatCanonGuy · January 23, 2012

The first three photos are of the 1D X, I think (compare the top left - control dial vs buttons). The last 3 are the interesting ones.

pmaxwell · January 23, 2012

The talk of a 5Dx (hybrid 7D / 5D) over at canonrumors.com is very appealing.

FearNothing321 · January 23, 2012

http://photorumors.com/2012/01/23/canon-5d-mark-iii-200-400mm-600mm-prototypes-spotted-in-kenya/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PhotoRumors+%28PhotoRumors.com%29&utm_content=FaceBook&ref=nf

this was posted on photorumors.com

jmphotocraft · January 24, 2012

pmaxwell wrote: »

The talk of a 5Dx (hybrid 7D / 5D) over at canonrumors.com is very appealing.

"Another mention of 22mp resolution came in, as well as a “pro level” autofocus system. That bit of info comes from a known source."

My dream camera. (assuming >= 8fps)
:jawdrop

mjordanphoto · January 24, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

"Another mention of 22mp resolution came in, as well as a “pro level” autofocus system. That bit of info comes from a known source."

My dream camera. (assuming >= 8fps)
:jawdrop

Same here (though I don't need the fps you do)! I've got a 50D and 5DmkII, I'd need the *perfect* camera to justify an upgrade right now. Honestly, divamum pretty much hit the nail on the head for me (and yes Matt, the D700 is basically exactly what I'm looking for - man, I'd kill for a 1DX sensor in the 5D-upgrade)

David_S85 · January 24, 2012

Stephen Oachs has made one of his 1DsIII .CR2 images freely available via his blog, here. The pic is rapidly making its way around the nets, including all rumor sites worth their salt. Since he wants us all to see it, and full sized, the image as a RAW file is here.

I've downloaded it and imported it into DPP and cleaned it up a little. I don't think it is proper to embed it here directly, but I can say it is highly detailed. I can't believe it could be anything other than the mark III.

jmphotocraft · January 25, 2012

mjordanphoto wrote: »

Same here (though I don't need the fps you do)! I've got a 50D and 5DmkII, I'd need the *perfect* camera to justify an upgrade right now.

That is the thing - if Canon does not make the 5DIII very compelling, people will either sit this one out, or buy a used 5DII or 7D. I have a 5DII and a 7D, and if I can't replace both of them with a 5DIII, I'm simply not buying anything. I don't really see how Canon could bet the whole thing on the new sensor alone, I think the AF and FPS are going to have to compete with the D800. To me that means 7D AF or better and 8fps or better.

(and yes Matt, the D700 is basically exactly what I'm looking for - man, I'd kill for a 1DX sensor in the 5D-upgrade)

Having been used to 18 and 21mp, I would not want to go back to 12mp. But yes, otherwise, the D700 is the perfect DSLR. I'd kill for the 1DX sensor with 7D AF and FPS.

NeilL · January 25, 2012

I won't say what I think the 5DII successor will be like, though of course I have an opinion. But, without contradicting anyone in this thread, I will say that it is increasingly not sensible to include all the newest tech and highest individual specs together in one body. The prosumer is the level for generalist bodies. Above that the new kid on the block will be specialisation. Following that line of reasoning I would rather the new body not be a hybrid bastard of two or three existing prosumer and pro bodies, but a *more* specialised body in its own right than it has been before.

Neil

mjordanphoto · January 25, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

That is the thing - if Canon does not make the 5DIII very compelling, people will either sit this one out, or buy a used 5DII or 7D. I have a 5DII and a 7D, and if I can't replace both of them with a 5DIII, I'm simply not buying anything. I don't really see how Canon could bet the whole thing on the new sensor alone, I think the AF and FPS are going to have to compete with the D800. To me that means 7D AF or better and 8fps or better.

Having been used to 18 and 21mp, I would not want to go back to 12mp. But yes, otherwise, the D700 is the perfect DSLR. I'd kill for the 1DX sensor with 7D AF and FPS.

I couldn't agree more on the first part - there has to be a compelling reason to upgrade, and for me, I want a significantly improved AF system, and a new sensor (for me, I don't need more MP, I'd love if it stayed the same or decreased slightly with even better ISO performance). I completely understand where you're coming from on the fps, and while I think Canon SHOULD improve it in the 5DIII, for completely selfish reasons, I'd be ok sacrificing that.

More and more it seems that the D700 (and presumably the D800, but let's wait and see) is the ideal package for someone like me... but I just don't have the time, energy, or money to make the switch. I'm fine with my 5DII and 50D for now, but going forward, I really want to see these kind of features in a "lower-end" FF body, and I'm incredibly hopeful that they'll do it for the 5DIII. I'm not rolling in dough, but I could definitely justify an upgrade if the price and features match up.

jmphotocraft · January 25, 2012

mjordanphoto wrote: »

I couldn't agree more on the first part - there has to be a compelling reason to upgrade, and for me, I want a significantly improved AF system, and a new sensor (for me, I don't need more MP, I'd love if it stayed the same or decreased slightly with even better ISO performance). I completely understand where you're coming from on the fps, and while I think Canon SHOULD improve it in the 5DIII, for completely selfish reasons, I'd be ok sacrificing that.

I think the 5DIII needs to offer at least 2 out of these 3 things to be really compelling:

improved sensor
7D or better AF
8fps or more

Of those I would sacrifice fps like you. I can time a single shot. My fear is that they will bet the farm on the sensor, and go with a 9+6 point AF and 5fps.

mjordanphoto wrote: »

More and more it seems that the D700 (and presumably the D800, but let's wait and see) is the ideal package for someone like me...

D800, 36mp does not interest me in the slightest. A FF sensor full of D7000 pixels... meh. And the biggest non-interpolated downsized mode will only be 9mp. We shall see how it looks and performs when it lands.

D700, 12mp is a non-starter.

February 7 is going to be an exciting day.

NeilL wrote: »

I won't say what I think the 5DII successor will be like, though of course I have an opinion. But, without contradicting anyone in this thread, I will say that it is increasingly not sensible to include all the newest tech and highest individual specs together in one body.

I guess Nikon didn't get that memo.

NeilL wrote: »

The prosumer is the level for generalist bodies. Above that the new kid on the block will be specialisation. Following that line of reasoning I would rather the new body not be a hybrid bastard of two or three existing prosumer and pro bodies, but a *more* specialised body in its own right than it has been before.

Specialized how? And why on earth would you prefer that? If you are right, judging from the leaked pics, I'd say it would be specialized for video.

Man if Canon forsakes AF and FPS for video, I will be p-o'd.

Throwing the label "hybrid bastard" at it really doesn't stick. Just look at the D700.

mjordanphoto · January 25, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

I think the 5DIII needs to offer at least 2 out of these 3 things to be really compelling:
improved sensor

7D or better AF

8fps or more

Of those I would sacrifice fps like you. I can time a single shot. My fear is that they will bet the farm on the sensor, and go with a 9+6 point AF and 5fps.

100% agree here - that's my exact concern too, that we'll end up with a great sensor, but the AF system will be ignored. That's just simply not enough for me to upgrade, and I honestly wonder who they think the target audience would be for that camera.

jmphotocraft wrote: »

D800, 36mp does not interest me in the slightest. A FF sensor full of D7000 pixels... meh. And the biggest non-interpolated downsized mode will only be 9mp. We shall see how it looks and performs when it lands.

D700, 12mp is a non-starter.

February 7 is going to be an exciting day.

I definitely agree that 36MP is just too much for me - especially if it didn't come with increased ISO performance - but as you said, we'll see how it looks when it hits. As for the 12MP D700, I could definitely do that, no questions asked, but I think that 18.1 (the 1DX) is the exact sweetspot that I'd love to see.

Indeed, Feb 7 is going to be a very interesting and exciting day.

Matthew Saville · January 25, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

I think the 5DIII needs to offer at least 2 out of these 3 things to be really compelling:
improved sensor

7D or better AF

8fps or more

Of those I would sacrifice fps like you. I can time a single shot. My fear is that they will bet the farm on the sensor, and go with a 9+6 point AF and 5fps.

D800, 36mp does not interest me in the slightest. A FF sensor full of D7000 pixels... meh. And the biggest non-interpolated downsized mode will only be 9mp. We shall see how it looks and performs when it lands.

D700, 12mp is a non-starter.

February 7 is going to be an exciting day.

I guess Nikon didn't get that memo.

Specialized how? And why on earth would you prefer that? If you are right, judging from the leaked pics, I'd say it would be specialized for video. Man if Canon forsakes AF and FPS for video, I will be p-o'd.

Throwing the label "hybrid bastard" at it really doesn't stick. Just look at the D700.

Unfortunately, I just don't see the 5D mk3 having more than ~5 FPS. Canon barely pulled off 5 FPS in the 1Ds mk3. Sure, they have the throughput to do it, but my point is that Canon is probably still too deeply rooted in the "it would cut into 1DX sales too much" mindset. Heck, even the Nikon D700 requires a battery grip to hit 8 FPS.

Really all it comes down to for me is the AF. (Surely, they'll have an improved sensor.)

So far, I believe the rumors are two-against-one in favor of NOT being as good as the 7D's AF, however I'm still hopeful for either 7D AF, or the "old" 45 point AF from previous flagships.

I know that all this talk of "this camera, with that sensor, and the other AF module" is kinda crazy. But honestly, what other alternatives do we realistically have? The 5D mk3 needs to perform on all fronts, bottom line. If some people only care about video and don't mind that the autofocus for still photography STINKS, then that's fine if it's Canon's decision to pursue that market. But I just think that they could profit FAR more if they would simply get off their high horse and start letting more flagship features "trickle down".

All in all, Despite Canon's reputation for being stubborn with "trickle-down", ...I'm hopeful that we will be very satisfied with the 2012 generation of DSLR's. :-)

=Matt=

jmphotocraft · January 25, 2012

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Unfortunately, I just don't see the 5D mk3 having more than ~5 FPS. Canon barely pulled off 5 FPS in the 1Ds mk3.

Well that was what, 5 years ago? 5fps would not be a dealbreaker for me, but there is no technological excuse anymore.

Sure, they have the throughput to do it, but my point is that Canon is probably still too deeply rooted in the "it would cut into 1DX sales too much" mindset.

If they do, they need to get over themselves and take a lesson from Nikon. I think they started to break free of that mindset with the 7D. Surely it cut into some 1DIII and IV sales.

Heck, even the Nikon D700 requires a battery grip to hit 8 FPS.

That would be fine with me. I'd only need 8fps when shooting sports for pay, and then I use a grip anyway.

Really all it comes down to for me is the AF. (Surely, they'll have an improved sensor.)

Agreed.

So far, I believe the rumors are two-against-one in favor of NOT being as good as the 7D's AF, however I'm still hopeful for either 7D AF, or the "old" 45 point AF from previous flagships.

Again I just cannot fathom Canon learning nothing from the D700 and not beefing up the AF at least. 7D or 45pt would be great.

I know that all this talk of "this camera, with that sensor, and the other AF module" is kinda crazy. But honestly, what other alternatives do we realistically have? The 5D mk3 needs to perform on all fronts, bottom line. If some people only care about video and don't mind that the autofocus for still photography STINKS, then that's fine if it's Canon's decision to pursue that market. But I just think that they could profit FAR more if they would simply get off their high horse and start letting more flagship features "trickle down".

Agreed. I fear that all the hype that the 5DII's HD video generated (Laforet, House MD, etc) may have distracted them.

borrowlenses.com · January 25, 2012

They probably don't want to cut into the 1DX sales with the new cameras, so my guess is they will keep the fps low, same with AF points. But, I could be wrong. Can't wait to find out

NeilL · January 25, 2012

The game has changed. The old hierarchies of models, and of amateur and pro, and stills and movies and the industries they support, all of them have begun to slide off into irrelevance (the defining factor for commercial dominance is $$ for advertising and distribution, not tech). The 1Ds don't only have to watch their back for threats from what's on the next lower model rung, or from the oppositions' "flagships", because threats are coming from all parts of the field, within and between brands and formats. As many people are using 7Ds and 550Ds for "serious" vid as 5DIIs, just as more and more people are ignoring the Ids for pro stills. This drain from the elite dslr range is in the direction of cheaper, better form factor, just as good quality for most purposes gear, and also in the direction of increasingly more affordable larger format still and dedicated vid gear, both of which are pushing the boundaries of specialisation-modularity, and the digital interconnectivity interface.

If the 5D concept is to stay alive in the marketplace into the further than immediate future, I think it has to appeal to one or the other of these poles. It can't appeal to both, and the market is increasingly squashing the middle ground that it has traditionally occupied - tech development and the economy have seen to that. It's likely I think that Canon will keep the 5D afloat in the short term with a compromise. What will distinguish the new arrival from the rest of the population at an attractive price? The answers are pretty limited, don't you think? But it seems to me they must include enhancement of the advantages of full frame = resolution & ISO, and enhancement of video, with a sprinkling of improved digital interface functions.

Neil

5DIII: ok, I'll play along with the latest rumor

Comments