Aaron - what kind of camera is it, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm going to try to enter again. I'm going to delete all that I've downloaded to my computer, then reload from the camera again in a brand new folder. Then straight to the Challenge for upload. I did that the last time, but did upload one picture first to SmugMug which may have changed the modified dates on all pics in the folder. I'm not even sure this shot is worth all the trouble!
Joyce - if this doesn't work, I'm sorry you have to delete another one. I don't know it's doing it until I get it in there.
deleting images is not hard so don't worry about that. I want you all to succeed at learning this! Sometimes we have to get out of our comfort zone of programs and get back to basics with everything!
Also how I use to do it, was I would upload to an unlisted gallery on my own smugmug and check the info there. Really its not hard to do! Just resist the urge to look at the image. Using the card reader is the best way to do this, do not use any program to open the image first. Drag and drop it directly from the card reader.
I'm about ready to give up. I loaded all freshly taken pictures onto my computer, opened them in Windows Picture Viewer and looked at the properties. The date taken and date modified matched exactly. Uploaded to Challenges and it changed. :cry
do not upload to your computer first. upload directly to the gallery. You seem to already know what picture you want so now just go back and bypass windows viewer and folders.
In my case, when I had a chance to shoot, I forgot and shot in raw. So, the raw had to be converted, and my date will get me DQ'ed. I don't think I am going to have the time to shoot again (and figure out the proper dump technique) as work is crazy busy.
But what I remember from the last time we did this is that, in my case, with a Mac and my Nikon D700, you cannot connect the camera and simply browse to the camera card. Not an option. The Mac does not see the camera. There is a lesser known app in the Mac called Image Capture (search for it) that will somehow find files on the camera and dump them straight to a folder, which can then be uploaded without modification.
But I have to say (again, sorry) that I'm not sure what we're learning by being a stickler for these dates and times. There are software tools out there that make the EXIF data editable. I can take an old photo, process it however I want to, save it as a JPEG, and then edit the captured/modified times to match, and then upload it. (I'm pretty sure, though I've never done this. You might actually even be able to do it within Lightroom!)
So, I would suggest that there is more of an honor system approach to the no editing rounds. Afterall, if someone cheats, they're just cheating their own experience.
But that's just me...
This questions is not just for Greg but for anyone who can answer, I hope Jag chimes in too:
I have seen other threads that say it is better to shoot RAW. I have read articles on it as well. But Greg says by doing so he gets DQ'd. What am I missing?
If you convert the RAW image within the dates indicated would not that still qualify? I am sorry I am so confused about this. I want to participate but this stuff is starting to scare me off of ever doing a challenge. I thought I would be able to go out and shoot as long as it is within the dates. I shoot only RAW also.
Again, please remember I am a newb so even tho I am 50 please talk to me as if I was in 3rd grade.
Darryl
PS. I hope you guys and gals do not hate me for asking so many questions.
Sometimes, it is better to be kind than to be right. We do not need an intelligent mind that speaks, but a patient heart that listens. Unknown
************* irpappyroot2.photoshop.com My flickr Account
This questions is not just for Greg but for anyone who can answer, I hope Jag chimes in too:
I have seen other threads that say it is better to shoot RAW. I have read articles on it as well. But Greg says by doing so he gets DQ'd. What am I missing?
If you convert the RAW image within the dates indicated would not that still qualify? I am sorry I am so confused about this. I want to participate but this stuff is starting to scare me off of ever doing a challenge. I thought I would be able to go out and shoot as long as it is within the dates. I shoot only RAW also.
Again, please remember I am a newb so even tho I am 50 please talk to me as if I was in 3rd grade.
Darryl
PS. I hope you guys and gals do not hate me for asking so many questions.
Yes, RAW is better when you want to have the most flexibility in editing. For this one particular challenge though, part of the challenge is to not do any editing. The only way for the mods to verify that you didn't do any editing is for the date created and date modified stamps to be exactly the same. So even if you shot raw, then all you did was convert it to jpg and upload it there's no way to prove you didn't edit it first.
Don't let it scare you off the challenges, in the vast majority of them you can do any editing you want and shoot any format you want.
Thank you everyone. I guess what I was not getting is that it was as is right out of the camera. Now I feel so dang silly. Sorry.
Darryl
Sometimes, it is better to be kind than to be right. We do not need an intelligent mind that speaks, but a patient heart that listens. Unknown
************* irpappyroot2.photoshop.com My flickr Account
Thank you everyone. I guess what I was not getting is that it was as is right out of the camera. Now I feel so dang silly. Sorry.
Darryl
Nah, don't... we sometimes forget that not everyone is familiar with the terminology used in here. You will get to the point where you don't think twice about what you read and assume everyone else gets it. Our bad...
Ok, I've never had trouble with EXIF's before, but here's what happened to me today...
...I finally had a chance to get out with the camera. I got home, took the memory card out of my camera (Olympus E-520), used a card reader to download the images to my computer & HAVE DONE NOTHING ELSE. Some of my pictures show the time taken and the time modified as the same and some of my pictures show the time taken as when I took the picture and the time modified as when the image downloaded. All from the same card in the same download process. No edits of any kind. Of course...all the 'good' shots have different times so I am back to the drawing board.
Both of these pictures were taken this morning on a nature walk & downloaded at the same time this afternoon. No edits, just a download. I'm not sure I get it, but I think it has something to do with whether I took the picture portrait or landscape. All the landscape orientation shots have the same times for taken/changed, but the pictures that I took portrait show a different time. I think my camera must store everything landscape whether I take the picture that way or not, and the process to rotate it during download back to the way I took it shows a change.
I don't know if this is why anyone else is having an issue with dates. I just need to remember that if I am able to try again that I need to keep my camera in landscape orientation.
If you still have the images on your card, try uploading your best one to the challenge gallery directly from the card and checking the EXIF in the gallery.
Since the shots that are "modified" are the ones that are portrait oriented rather than landscape, I think that even if you have it set in-camera to "auto rotate", that it will modify the shot by rotating it if you shoot it oriented as a portrait. I'm not sure if it modifies it in-camera or in the download process, you could try what Bill said & download straight from the card to the gallery. I noticed that all the shots I took as jpg did not rotate, so my portrait shots are laying on their side.
Thanks Lillian & Billseye. Bill--I checked the first 3 images from the day & the exif was good, so I cleared my card. The first 14 shots were all landscape-oriented (of course), so the problem didn't present itself to me until after I cleared the card. It was only when I chose the images I thought might work (all portrait orientation) that I noticed the problem. Of course, it was too late then.
I won't be going back to that same place again to try to retake today's shots, so these will just be for me. I am getting out again with the camera on Friday, so maybe I'll find something then. You can bet I will either take everything landscape or will try to upload straight from the card to the gallery.
I don't think I got any 'winners' from today's bunch anyway, but there were a few I liked for this challenge. I went ahead and edited my favorites and posted them to facebook. No point in posting them in a challenge thread since I can't use 'em. :cry
I do not know guys and gals but I think I will hold off on SOOC challenges. It seems to be a huge headache.
Darryl
Sometimes, it is better to be kind than to be right. We do not need an intelligent mind that speaks, but a patient heart that listens. Unknown
************* irpappyroot2.photoshop.com My flickr Account
I got a qualifier in. Here's what I had to do. I had to shoot jpeg. Then, on my iMac, I had to use the Mac utility called Image Capture to import the photos from the card to my desktop. Then I could upload them without having changed the modified date. Mac's don't automatically let you access the card. If you're having trouble, and you're using a Mac, search for the utility Image Capture.
For Mac users, I use Lightroom and as I mentioned before, I'm able to preview the images as I want.
I don't export them. When I want to upload the one(s) that I like I take them directly from the folder where they have been downloaded from the camera.
* My camera is a Canon - I don't know if this makes a difference or not.
I'm going to try again on the weekend. If I can't do it, then I'm sitting this one out. That's a shame because I haven't missed one since I started this about two years ago. I'll try uploading with the memory card. I haven't done that before.
This questions is not just for Greg but for anyone who can answer, I hope Jag chimes in too:
I have seen other threads that say it is better to shoot RAW. I have read articles on it as well. But Greg says by doing so he gets DQ'd. What am I missing?
If you convert the RAW image within the dates indicated would not that still qualify? I am sorry I am so confused about this. I want to participate but this stuff is starting to scare me off of ever doing a challenge. I thought I would be able to go out and shoot as long as it is within the dates. I shoot only RAW also.
Again, please remember I am a newb so even tho I am 50 please talk to me as if I was in 3rd grade.
Darryl
PS. I hope you guys and gals do not hate me for asking so many questions.
**this may already have been stated but I got tired looking for it in the thread, so thought I'd just post it anyway***
Also remember that shooting RAW is just that. RAW. NO adjustments made to sharpen, contrast, saturation. In RAW you're telling the camera that YOU want to control everything. You're telling the camera, to give it to you un-adjusted.
When you shoot jpg, the cameras computer is applying adjustments, based on your settings. It will sharpen, add contrast, saturation, etc. So for this challenge you definitely want to shoot JPG, so those adjustments are applied. Otherwise your image has the potential to be flat.
Good luck!
Aaron Nelson
Not sure about what your asking with uploading to the smugmug page. FWIW when I would look at my image on my software it would show EXIF date taken and modified as the same. When I would upload it to my Smugmug account it would show a change on the modified time (I believe it was showing the upload time). If you get it into smugmug and the time looks the same then I think it would be good to go in the challange gallery. The 2 programs are using the same computer software settings. Good way to test your image.
Just how far off are people's create/modify times?
If its only a second or two, couldnt that be written into the rules?
I really like the idea of the sooc challenge, but as I have shown in the post above, somehow
on a quarter of my shots, the modified time is earlier than the create time.
Maybe not for this one, but in the future, some leeway may have to be given.
Frustration will drive people away faster than anything.
You don't want to lose customers.
Just how far off are people's create/modify times?
If its only a second or two, couldnt that be written into the rules?
I really like the idea of the sooc challenge, but as I have shown in the post above, somehow
on a quarter of my shots, the modified time is earlier than the create time.
Maybe not for this one, but in the future, some leeway may have to be given.
Frustration will drive people away faster than anything.
You don't want to lose customers.
It is all ready driving people away. Don't know what the answer is but several, myself included, are bagging on this challange.
Just how far off are people's create/modify times?
If its only a second or two, couldnt that be written into the rules?
I really like the idea of the sooc challenge, but as I have shown in the post above, somehow
on a quarter of my shots, the modified time is earlier than the create time.
Maybe not for this one, but in the future, some leeway may have to be given.
Frustration will drive people away faster than anything.
You don't want to lose customers.
Seriously, most of the ones that are off are by several hours to days. And the ones that are up for dq are taken out of the challenge timeframe or are off by several hours and there are at least one that is not a dgrin user that can be found.
Most people have corrected their entries by resubmitting after it was instructed that they should not us any editing programs to view before entering and that they should load directly from the card. Its a matter of people reading the solution and applying it. Simply put. It was stated several times. This is for windows applications.
For macs, ghinson gave a way for it to be done....
ghinson • Mar-15-2012 12:44 PM I got a qualifier in. Here's what I had to do. I had to shoot jpeg. Then, on my iMac, I had to use the Mac utility called Image Capture to import the photos from the card to my desktop. Then I could upload them without having changed the modified date. Mac's don't automatically let you access the card. If you're having trouble, and you're using a Mac, search for the utility Image Capture.
So it goes to reason, that if there is a way to do it and ppl can apply these methods. It may be out of their comfort zone but hopefully they will glean some wisdom from it. SOOC's have been difficult to do in the past (unbeknowns't to me) so now I have learned why we do not have many of them. If ppl would just bare with it and give it a try the way its been described, they might be successful. It is what it is.
First, sorry about the large pics, but I want you to be able to see them.
There is something going on when a photo is uploaded.
This is a bad shot, I know, but it's the EXIF that I'm interested in.
As in my post above, the Modified and Create times are one second apart, with the create time being later.
I uploaded that photo to my account, and magically, the times are the same.
So Smugmug is changing the time in the EXIF somehow.
So all I'm saying, is if someone is off by a second or two, maybe they shouldn't be DQ'd.
Dave, could it possibly be that your camera or computer is slightly off on time, causing a disturbance in your universe and smugmug is the one showing the correct time?
Dave, could it possibly be that your camera or computer is slightly off on time, causing a disturbance in your universe and smugmug is the one showing the correct time?
If folks are loading right off the camera or the card, as you and others have outlined something on the order of a dozen times, now, this wouldn't be an issue.
This is my personal bias screeching at the top of its "I used to shoot film," voice, but this challenge, and the stress its caused, underscores to me how dependant the modern digital photographer has become on post-processing tools.*
Or, alternately, we aren't going to grow as photographers without pushing our boundaries. For this challenge, I went into food photograhy, which I've never done before. Ever. I'm a sports guy. I'm good at stuff that moves, and moves quickly. Instead of going to my comfort zone, I went somewhere new. And I think I learned something.
Which is what the challenges are all about, n'est pas?
So given how many people are running around setting their hair on fire over not being able to use <del>crutches</del> post-processing tools, I'd heartily recommend more of them.
*Ansel Adams, who many adore, didn't tweak his work on photoshop. He got it right, on film. Me, that's what I think we should aspire to: capture it on the camera, don't "rescue" it with photoshop/whatever.
Newspaper photogs specialize in drive-by shootings.
Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
Dave, could it possibly be that your camera or computer is slightly off on time, causing a disturbance in your universe and smugmug is the one showing the correct time?
For the most part, the time in my universe is the same as yours, the color of the sky, now that's a different story.
...this challenge, and the stress its caused, underscores to me how dependant the modern digital photographer has become on post-processing tools.
Actually, I think this challenge underscores hor dependant the modern digital camera is on post-processing tools. One advantage of digital is the RAW negative, and no matter how well you compose and expose the picture, it's gonna get modified when it gets converted.
OMG. I finally did it! I think Sherry was right about the vertical shots. The ones I was trying to upload before were vertical.
Joyce - I'd have to say this one really challenged me more than any other. There were basically 3 challenges in one. SOOC, contrast, and uploading the shot!
*Ansel Adams, who many adore, didn't tweak his work on photoshop. He got it right, on film. Me, that's what I think we should aspire to: capture it on the camera, don't "rescue" it with photoshop/whatever.
You are correct that AA did not have Photoshop at his disposal but you need to know that the bulk of work that we know him for did not come SOOC. AA did an extensive amount of work to his images in the darkroom. Photoshop is today's darkroom. Here is just one example of "Why Ansel Adams Would Love Photoshop"
"In the darkroom, he used a massive amount of dodging and burning, and printed a lot darker than what the scene in reality looked like. Books have been written about his techniques. Ansel Adams was a photographer, artist, and a master at what he did."
Sorry to garbage up the entry thread but I had the modify date blues too. I finally saw the "load from card tip" which worked. I tried the different loader tip first....that didn't work.
I'm in, but there's a few that need to be deleted....sorry.
I hadn't shot in jpeg in forever and a day....it didn't hurt at all.
Comments
deleting images is not hard so don't worry about that. I want you all to succeed at learning this! Sometimes we have to get out of our comfort zone of programs and get back to basics with everything!
Also how I use to do it, was I would upload to an unlisted gallery on my own smugmug and check the info there. Really its not hard to do! Just resist the urge to look at the image. Using the card reader is the best way to do this, do not use any program to open the image first. Drag and drop it directly from the card reader.
do not upload to your computer first. upload directly to the gallery. You seem to already know what picture you want so now just go back and bypass windows viewer and folders.
This questions is not just for Greg but for anyone who can answer, I hope Jag chimes in too:
I have seen other threads that say it is better to shoot RAW. I have read articles on it as well. But Greg says by doing so he gets DQ'd. What am I missing?
If you convert the RAW image within the dates indicated would not that still qualify? I am sorry I am so confused about this. I want to participate but this stuff is starting to scare me off of ever doing a challenge. I thought I would be able to go out and shoot as long as it is within the dates. I shoot only RAW also.
Again, please remember I am a newb so even tho I am 50 please talk to me as if I was in 3rd grade.
Darryl
PS. I hope you guys and gals do not hate me for asking so many questions.
*************
irpappyroot2.photoshop.com
My flickr Account
Yes, RAW is better when you want to have the most flexibility in editing. For this one particular challenge though, part of the challenge is to not do any editing. The only way for the mods to verify that you didn't do any editing is for the date created and date modified stamps to be exactly the same. So even if you shot raw, then all you did was convert it to jpg and upload it there's no way to prove you didn't edit it first.
Don't let it scare you off the challenges, in the vast majority of them you can do any editing you want and shoot any format you want.
Its only for this particular challenge.
Darryl
*************
irpappyroot2.photoshop.com
My flickr Account
Nah, don't... we sometimes forget that not everyone is familiar with the terminology used in here. You will get to the point where you don't think twice about what you read and assume everyone else gets it. Our bad...
SOOC = Straight Out Of Camera
My SmugMug
...I finally had a chance to get out with the camera. I got home, took the memory card out of my camera (Olympus E-520), used a card reader to download the images to my computer & HAVE DONE NOTHING ELSE. Some of my pictures show the time taken and the time modified as the same and some of my pictures show the time taken as when I took the picture and the time modified as when the image downloaded. All from the same card in the same download process. No edits of any kind. Of course...all the 'good' shots have different times so I am back to the drawing board.
Examples: (not necessarily good shots, btw, or even fitting the challenge--these are just to show what I mean.)
Exif for this one: http://psphotos.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=1749827124&ImageKey=FqZ87FT
Exif for this one: http://psphotos.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=1749829115&ImageKey=QfFZ3S9
Both of these pictures were taken this morning on a nature walk & downloaded at the same time this afternoon. No edits, just a download. I'm not sure I get it, but I think it has something to do with whether I took the picture portrait or landscape. All the landscape orientation shots have the same times for taken/changed, but the pictures that I took portrait show a different time. I think my camera must store everything landscape whether I take the picture that way or not, and the process to rotate it during download back to the way I took it shows a change.
I don't know if this is why anyone else is having an issue with dates. I just need to remember that if I am able to try again that I need to keep my camera in landscape orientation.
Sherry
If you still have the images on your card, try uploading your best one to the challenge gallery directly from the card and checking the EXIF in the gallery.
Check out billseye photos on SmugMug
A photograph is an artistic expression of life, captured one moment at a time . . .
http://bartlettphotoart.smugmug.com/
I won't be going back to that same place again to try to retake today's shots, so these will just be for me. I am getting out again with the camera on Friday, so maybe I'll find something then. You can bet I will either take everything landscape or will try to upload straight from the card to the gallery.
I don't think I got any 'winners' from today's bunch anyway, but there were a few I liked for this challenge. I went ahead and edited my favorites and posted them to facebook. No point in posting them in a challenge thread since I can't use 'em. :cry
Sherry
Darryl
*************
irpappyroot2.photoshop.com
My flickr Account
ackdoc.com
I don't export them. When I want to upload the one(s) that I like I take them directly from the folder where they have been downloaded from the camera.
* My camera is a Canon - I don't know if this makes a difference or not.
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/
**this may already have been stated but I got tired looking for it in the thread, so thought I'd just post it anyway***
Also remember that shooting RAW is just that. RAW. NO adjustments made to sharpen, contrast, saturation. In RAW you're telling the camera that YOU want to control everything. You're telling the camera, to give it to you un-adjusted.
When you shoot jpg, the cameras computer is applying adjustments, based on your settings. It will sharpen, add contrast, saturation, etc. So for this challenge you definitely want to shoot JPG, so those adjustments are applied. Otherwise your image has the potential to be flat.
Good luck!
Not sure about what your asking with uploading to the smugmug page. FWIW when I would look at my image on my software it would show EXIF date taken and modified as the same. When I would upload it to my Smugmug account it would show a change on the modified time (I believe it was showing the upload time). If you get it into smugmug and the time looks the same then I think it would be good to go in the challange gallery. The 2 programs are using the same computer software settings. Good way to test your image.
I have an iMac, put the card into the card reader on the side of it, and viewed the photos in Bridge.
About a quarter of the shots show this.
Compare the create time to the modified time.
The time machine is working great.
Oh-oh. A black SUV just pulled up in front of my house.
I've got to go.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
If its only a second or two, couldnt that be written into the rules?
I really like the idea of the sooc challenge, but as I have shown in the post above, somehow
on a quarter of my shots, the modified time is earlier than the create time.
Maybe not for this one, but in the future, some leeway may have to be given.
Frustration will drive people away faster than anything.
You don't want to lose customers.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
It is all ready driving people away. Don't know what the answer is but several, myself included, are bagging on this challange.
Seriously, most of the ones that are off are by several hours to days. And the ones that are up for dq are taken out of the challenge timeframe or are off by several hours and there are at least one that is not a dgrin user that can be found.
Most people have corrected their entries by resubmitting after it was instructed that they should not us any editing programs to view before entering and that they should load directly from the card. Its a matter of people reading the solution and applying it. Simply put. It was stated several times. This is for windows applications.
For macs, ghinson gave a way for it to be done....
ghinson • Mar-15-2012 12:44 PM
I got a qualifier in. Here's what I had to do. I had to shoot jpeg. Then, on my iMac, I had to use the Mac utility called Image Capture to import the photos from the card to my desktop. Then I could upload them without having changed the modified date. Mac's don't automatically let you access the card. If you're having trouble, and you're using a Mac, search for the utility Image Capture.
So it goes to reason, that if there is a way to do it and ppl can apply these methods. It may be out of their comfort zone but hopefully they will glean some wisdom from it. SOOC's have been difficult to do in the past (unbeknowns't to me) so now I have learned why we do not have many of them. If ppl would just bare with it and give it a try the way its been described, they might be successful. It is what it is.
There is something going on when a photo is uploaded.
This is a bad shot, I know, but it's the EXIF that I'm interested in.
As in my post above, the Modified and Create times are one second apart, with the create time being later.
I uploaded that photo to my account, and magically, the times are the same.
So Smugmug is changing the time in the EXIF somehow.
So all I'm saying, is if someone is off by a second or two, maybe they shouldn't be DQ'd.
In bridge on my computer.
And from the screen shot of my Smugmug page.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
If folks are loading right off the camera or the card, as you and others have outlined something on the order of a dozen times, now, this wouldn't be an issue.
This is my personal bias screeching at the top of its "I used to shoot film," voice, but this challenge, and the stress its caused, underscores to me how dependant the modern digital photographer has become on post-processing tools.*
Or, alternately, we aren't going to grow as photographers without pushing our boundaries. For this challenge, I went into food photograhy, which I've never done before. Ever. I'm a sports guy. I'm good at stuff that moves, and moves quickly. Instead of going to my comfort zone, I went somewhere new. And I think I learned something.
Which is what the challenges are all about, n'est pas?
So given how many people are running around setting their hair on fire over not being able to use <del>crutches</del> post-processing tools, I'd heartily recommend more of them.
*Ansel Adams, who many adore, didn't tweak his work on photoshop. He got it right, on film. Me, that's what I think we should aspire to: capture it on the camera, don't "rescue" it with photoshop/whatever.
Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
For the most part, the time in my universe is the same as yours, the color of the sky, now that's a different story.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
Actually, I think this challenge underscores hor dependant the modern digital camera is on post-processing tools. One advantage of digital is the RAW negative, and no matter how well you compose and expose the picture, it's gonna get modified when it gets converted.
ackdoc.com
Joyce - I'd have to say this one really challenged me more than any other. There were basically 3 challenges in one. SOOC, contrast, and uploading the shot!
Done.
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/
You are correct that AA did not have Photoshop at his disposal but you need to know that the bulk of work that we know him for did not come SOOC. AA did an extensive amount of work to his images in the darkroom. Photoshop is today's darkroom. Here is just one example of "Why Ansel Adams Would Love Photoshop"
I'm in, but there's a few that need to be deleted....sorry.
I hadn't shot in jpeg in forever and a day....it didn't hurt at all.