Photoshop CC et al.

Dan7312

The new version of Photoshop, Photoshop CC along with the new versions of the rest of the Creative Cloud ships in June. Going forward Photoshop and the rest will only be available from Creative Cloud.

Richard

Here we go again (sigh). Adobe wants us all to rent, not own, our software. It doesn't make sense for me personally, so I won't be drinking the kool aid, but everyone's mileage varies, I suppose. There will undoubtedly be backlash, so we'll just have to wait to see whether they can impose it or not. One thing of interest I found in the FAQ is that Lightroom will still be available as a standalone product. At least for now....

jdorseydesign

This really sucks for the hobbyist photographers, who previously could buy Photoshop CS for around $700 and use it without upgrading through several revisions of Photoshop.

Adobe is basically forcing everyone to upgrade every year.

Professionals who earn a living doing photography can probably afford this, amateurs probably won't be able to.

Dan7312

A single product like Photoshop CC is available for $20 a month. At $700 that works out to an upgrade cycle of about 3 years. But I know some people use a longer upgrade cycle than 3 years so that might not work out for them.

My guess is that Adobe is doing this because they've seen a strong conversion rate to the Creative Cloud and just don't want to have to maintain two pricing structures and upgrade cycles.

Along with that guess is another, that if Adobe doesn't see a large portion of the remaining Creative Suite user convert to subscriptions they will go back to offering perpetual licenses... but I don't think will see that answer for at least a year.

But my third guess is that most of the remaining customer base using the Creative Suite will, in fact, convert to the Creative Cloud. It actually not a bad deal, I know it worked out well for me.

All of those are just guesses though...

jdorseydesign wrote: »

This really sucks for the hobbyist photographers, who previously could buy Photoshop CS for around $700 and use it without upgrading through several revisions of Photoshop.

Adobe is basically forcing everyone to upgrade every year.

Professionals who earn a living doing photography can probably afford this, amateurs probably won't be able to.

Nikolai

The primary problem with CC-only (i.e. subscription, SaaS) is that your *own work* (all the PSD files) becomes hostage of perpetual cost. Once you let a CC-specific feature (say, brand new Camera Shake Reduction) touch your PSD file, you will have to pay Adobe for a possibility to open it - until you die or give up on those.
Looks like I'm gonna keep my CS6 for a while. At least they promised (for now) to keep ACR updated, at least as long as they keep perpetual licensing for LR.

Dan7312

As long as you are actively using Photoshop why discontinue the subscription? If stop or are intermittently using it you can rent Photoshop by the month when you need it, so you really wouldn't lose access to the PSD's.

I think it's just a different way to sell things. I don't see how it forces anyone to pay rent to Adobe for the rest of their lives, unless they are actively using Photoshop for the rest of their lives.

Nikolai wrote: »

The primary problem with CC-only (i.e. subscription, SaaS) is that your *own work* (all the PSD files) becomes hostage of perpetual cost. Once you let a CC-specific feature (say, brand new Camera Shake Reduction) touch your PSD file, you will have to pay Adobe for a possibility to open it - until you die or give up on those.
Looks like I'm gonna keep my CS6 for a while. At least they promised (for now) to keep ACR updated, at least as long as they keep perpetual licensing for LR.

Tinstafl

I for one will not go to the cloud. Sorry but when we do and they start to raise prices and force upgrades on us that is too much. There are alternatives and there will be others that will fill in the holes when it happens.

racer

Looks like adobe just killed photography as a hobby for many people who cant justify or afford the monthly bill.

mSummers

I'm sorry guys but the math doesn't work. Prior to the release of CS6, you only had to upgrade every 3 revisions. Assuming one revision every year, that means the upgrade costs $200 every 3 years. The same time period with CC equates to $720 or 3.6 times the cost. Even if you say that you have to upgrade every year, that still equates to $200 a year making CC 1.17 times more expensive.

As a hobbyist, I just can't justify the cost and will be looking elsewhere. In time, new alternatives will pop up to take photoshops place fulfilling the need for top notch software at prices hobbyists can justify. CS6 should hold me over until then... For now, it's time to start saving files as layered Tiffs so I can open them on non Adobe software in the future.

tebogan

Looks like Corel is the answer
Paint Shop is available for under $100.00. I have used it since it was JASC.

David_S85

tebogan wrote: »

Paint Shop is available for under $100.00. I have used it since it was JASC.

As did I. Started with Version 2. But there has never been, nor will there ever be a Mac version of PSP. Only they know why, and I think they're missing out on a bigger market than their bean counters have figured. PSP was very friendly, though never a choice for the professional - very little 16-bit support, RAW image support sucks or is non-existant, no CMYK support, and the list goes on and on. But back in the day it was the greatest thing for the buck. Now Elements 11 owns that market. But if Corel ever steps up to the plate with a decent PSP package for the Mac, they can charge whatever they'd want and I'd gladly give them my money.

Richard

I took a look at the Adobe forums and so far, the response has been mostly hostile. No surprise there.

Under the old model, I'm the one who decides if and when upgrades are worth the price. Under the new model, I have to pay and pray. One needs to have faith that Adobe will continue innovation, not screw up updates, provide adequate customer support when (inevitably) they break something that used to work and, most important, not be abusive about future prices/terms of service. The problem is, over the long run you're left with nothing usable if you cancel because Adobe fails to deliver. Feeling lucky?

Presumably, Adobe has concluded that it will make more money under the subscription model. Well, maybe, but they're leaving money on the table by not offering an acceptable upgrade path to long-time but less-than-steady customers like me. I suspect that when the smoke clears, they will come up some sort of hybrid license/subscription scheme to address some of my concerns. I had planned to upgrade to CS7 when it appeared, but I guess CS5 will just have to do till Adobe changes its tune.

Moogle Pepper

I am sticking with CS 5.5 and LR 4. I, however, will upgrade to LR 5. I hardly use photoshop, still this subscription plan is terrible. Especially at a rate of about $50 a month?

paddler4

Sorry but when we do and they start to raise prices and force upgrades on us that is too much.

It's worse than that, given that they have no serious competitors. Until this time, they had to keep innovating in order to encourage users to upgrade, which is where they made a lot of their money. Now we have to pay them whether they improve the product or not. And as Nicolai pointed out, you will need to keep your subscription active forever if you store your images in an Adobe file format. I for one will keep my current versions for some time while waiting for this to shake out.

Richard

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

I, however, will upgrade to LR 5. I hardly use photoshop, still this subscription plan is terrible. Especially at a rate of about $50 a month?

If you only subscribe to Photoshop, the current price is $19.95/mo. It is unclear whether this includes Bridge or not, as it is listed as a separate application, and ACR isn't mentioned at all. However, even assuming you can get all the current CS Photoshop components for 20 bucks a month, there's no guarantee that Adobe won't raise the price in the future. It's a pretty safe bet that they will, once enough people are locked in.

cmason

The only change I really see here is that they no longer offer perpetual licenses to their software (though Lightroom appears to be the exception). This means you can not simply pay $700 and get the software for use forever.

On the other hand, forever was more like a few years in practical terms. Otherwise, you still download the software and install it, you still work locally on files, etc. There is no requirement to use the cloud in any fashion, though if you want, you can store files and settings there, and even download the programs to as many machines as you like: the software is 'activated' with a login every time you use it.

One interesting aspect is that one could simply purchase PS for a month, then stop paying for several months. This actually matches my usage, where I will have a shoot that really needs PS, whereas most really only need Lightroom. I suppose I could 'save up' the images for editing in PS, then buy a month and crank through it all, and stop payment at the end of the month.

I doubt this will reduce 'real' customers. I bet it will greatly reduce pirated software. I also bet other vendors will fill the gap (maybe PSP?)


PS is available as a standalone offering:


Q: I’m a photographer, I only use Photoshop and don’t really need to use any other applications in Creative Cloud. What are my options if I just want Photoshop CC?
A: A Creative Cloud single-app membership is available at a special introductory price of $9.99 per month (with an annual commitment) for our loyal customers who currently own Photoshop CS3, CS4, CS5 or CS6. Offer available until July 31st, 2013 (terms and conditions).
Be sure to choose “Required CS3+ purchase” from the pop-up to see the $9.99 price:
A Photoshop CC single-app membership includes:
All the features originally found in Photoshop Extended, including support for 3D, and other measurement and analysis tools, plus:

• New Photoshop CC features, like – Sync settings, camera shake reduction, intelligent upsampling, editable rounded rectangles, Adobe Camera Raw 8 (ACR8) improvements – including Automatic Upright and Advanced Healing Brush, as well as regular updates throughout the year.
• Bridge CC – Now with HiDPI support for Mac hardware with Retina displays.
• 20GB of cloud-based storage – Storage has been doubled from 10GB originally offered with Single app membership to 20GB.
• Multi-device access – Ability to easily access and share your work on virtually any device.
• Behance ProSite membership – A personal portfolio site builder that transforms a public Behance portfolio into a fully customized personal portfolio on your own URL. (Note: a Behance ProSite membership is normally $99 per year by itself)

http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-about-photoshop-cc.html

Nikolai

PS CC (aka PS CS7) uses online activation. I haven't tested its behavior if you deny it an internet connection AFTER activation.

As one of my colleagues who went to Adobe MAX said, CC probably stands for "Cash Cow"

Nikolai

Some clarifications, straight from the horse's mouth:

As for offline use: With a 12-month subscription, you have the capability to be offline for 3 months (99 days) and Month-to-month subscription requires a simple validation every 30 days.

Also, some Q&As here: http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-about-photoshop-cc.html

HTH

jonh68

racer wrote: »

Looks like adobe just killed photography as a hobby for many people who cant justify or afford the monthly bill.

That's pretty dramatic and untrue. Adobe itself has options for the hobbyist.

divamum

No Cloud for me, even though I'm eligible for the educator discount. Like most commenting here, I'm dismayed at the entire concept. Not only the cost, the "holding hostage" philosophy, and the idea of not owning the s'ware, but the simple hassle of installing it ONLY from downloads. Due to a string of computer disasters, I've had to reinstall my OS 4 times in the last 6 months - so much easier to slap a disk in the drive than have to "fetch" the software first.

I'm very glad I just bought CS6 and LR4 on DISK; at least that keeps me set for the immediate future............

racer

jonh68 wrote: »

That's pretty dramatic and untrue. Adobe itself has options for the hobbyist.

So us "hobbyist" should just buy a copy of elements, since we don't need the full version of photoshop, or better yet, we could just shoot jpegs and tweak them in gimp?

Like has been repeated a million times now all over the internet, many bought a copy of photoshop, and upgraded every three years or when there budget allowed. Many (myself included) who could afford 200 every few years can not afford 20 a month 1 year commitment. Maybe I can afford it now, but not when the inevitable price hike comes around?

tebogan

Hello DXO
I have used DXO in the past before I got LR, and if I have to go to the cloud to use LR I will go back to DXO and use PSP or ACDSee as needed. I work off a laptop and travel various places that do not have high speed or any speed service. If ET tries to call home to the cloud and I am not connected, then I may have a situation, and I am not paying $50/ mth for something I do not use all of. There are alternatives, and these may not be the best at this time, but if others see that there are $$$$$$ to be made because of some others greed, then we will all be much better off. If LR goes to the cloud only, then Adobe will never see a $0.10 more of my money. Just my $0.02 worth.

Moogle Pepper

tebogan wrote: »

I have used DXO in the past before I got LR, and if I have to go to the cloud to use LR I will go back to DXO and use PSP or ACDSee as needed. I work off a laptop and travel various places that do not have high speed or any speed service. If ET tries to call home to the cloud and I am not connected, then I may have a situation, and I am not paying $50/ mth for something I do not use all of. There are alternatives, and these may not be the best at this time, but if others see that there are $$$$$$ to be made because of some others greed, then we will all be much better off. If LR goes to the cloud only, then Adobe will never see a $0.10 more of my money. Just my $0.02 worth.

Likewise, but according to Petapixel: http://petapixel.com/2013/05/07/adobe-thinking-about-a-creative-cloud-bundle-geared-toward-photographers/

It looks like they are pondering a subscription to LR as well. Which would mean LR 5 will be my last Adobe purchase.

Richard

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

Likewise, but according to Petapixel: http://petapixel.com/2013/05/07/adobe-thinking-about-a-creative-cloud-bundle-geared-toward-photographers/

It looks like they are pondering a subscription to LR as well. Which would mean LR 5 will be my last Adobe purchase.

I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to agree to perpetual payment for access to his own catalog. Well, maybe one or two morons.... Sure, they can try but with no perpetual license option, that will be the end of LR.

Moogle Pepper

They will raise the subscription prices annually. mark my words. Of course that does sound dramatic and THE-END-IS-NEAR kind of words. But in EVERY subscribed payment plan, whether it be CC, to the telecoms, to gas and electric, the prices go up while the service stays the same or goes down.

jonh68

racer wrote: »

So us "hobbyist" should just buy a copy of elements, since we don't need the full version of photoshop, or better yet, we could just shoot jpegs and tweak them in gimp?

Like has been repeated a million times now all over the internet, many bought a copy of photoshop, and upgraded every three years or when there budget allowed. Many (myself included) who could afford 200 every few years can not afford 20 a month 1 year commitment. Maybe I can afford it now, but not when the inevitable price hike comes around?

I didn't say that. Stating Adobe is going to ruin the hobby is what I was commenting on. It isn't going to be ruined and Adobe has options for the hobbyist with Lightroom and PSE. I'm a pro and can't afford and don't need the full blown CS so I jave been getting by on PSE and other options of software.

jonh68

Richard wrote: »

I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to agree to perpetual payment for access to his own catalog. Well, maybe one or two morons.... Sure, they can try but with no perpetual license option, that will be the end of LR.

Instead of cataloging, I use Photomechanic to manage my photo library. It doesn't make a library as much as let you organize the pics yourself and lets you look at your photos in a file structure similar to using browser with the added benefit of tagging, sorting, launching editors etc.

cmason

I think where Adobe is going wrong is with a set of customers, like me, who do not want to pay for their product every year. Hell, I am still on LR3, and LR5 beta is out already. I just can't afford to upgrade every year, nor do I really need to. Its not that I don't want the new version, its simply that I can't justify paying every year. At the moment, I pay every 3 or 4 years, and I look for the best way to save a buck (for example, I was on the School Board a year ago, so that officially qualified me for Education pricing). $120 per year is still more than I paid for CS5, given that I will use it until 'CS8' or more is out.

For those customers that do pay every upgrade, I suspect the new pricing model is awesome. For the rest of us, its clear to me that Adobe is pricing the hobbyist out of Photoshop.

Perhaps that is the plan: keep PS to the 'pro' crowd, for whom this new pricing model is great news. The rest of us I suppose are really supposed to have PS Elements. If Adobe screws with Lightroom, they will lose a customer for life.

Sam

This is what happens when a single company / group / party / etc grows to completely dominate a segment of the market.

Once the major competitors have been eliminated and the company becomes the defacto standard and necessity within an industry they have a captured group of clients. They now think and act like a monopoly.

The primary emphasis shifts from how does the company produce a better product, meet the needs of their customers and continue to be the leader of that segment of the industry to: we have arrived, we got um. now how do we maximize our profit? What is the easiest most profitable way to raise prices and do business?

At this point the company knows everything, any dissenting internal voices find themselves quickly looking for new employment. External dissent is recognised only as a minor blip on the radar.

Many within the company will believe that this new business model is better for their customers and once forced into complying with the new terms customers will come to love it. The customers who abandon ship are insignificant.

The next phase is critical, If they underestimate the number of those who abandon ship, they may need to reevaluate their decision and offer alternatives.

Holding the course will open the doors to the once second string competitors with a real opportunity to grab up not only those that left the fold but also those that felt they were browbeat into staying.

Sam

I just spent an hour and a half trying to obtain an email address to anyone in senior management to send an email to voicing my opinion and to invite them to read the comments here.

Low and behold you can't get that information. I actually couldn't find customer support (I know it exists somewhere) but all the people I talked to could only provide some general dept email address. I wonder if senior management even knows there is discontent over the new business model, or if they care.

tsk1979

Time to go to RawTherapee+GIMP combo. Hopefully, more people will get drawn to these leading to more developers and better interface

Nikolai

Some useful link about CS6
http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-ends-cs6-boxed-copies.html
Pretty much "good buy disks".
This will be bad for people with limited bandwidth/traffic (hello AOL and majority of non-US users )