How do you slow down your shutter finger?

divamum

No, I'm serious here.

I am not an advocate of "spray and pray" (meaning random shooting in the hope I'll get one) and do have a plan when I start, but when I get into the flow of things I get excited and tend to dramatically overshoot, which is killing me when it comes time to cull. Sure a small percentage of that is intentional - because I shoot shallow depth of field and do take some extra "safety" shots to guarantee focus - but that's only a small percentage; it is getting badly out of control

Suggestions? I'm never going to be a set the pose>hold the pose>one frame only kind of shooter, but I do need to explore a different shooting rhythm to avoid the crazy number of extra frames. Even when they do have variance of expression (which I definitely need for headshot clients), it's now going too, too far.

Thoughts? Experiences? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance from Drowning In Images

Bryce Wilson

Switch to a film camera for a few sessions....

lensmole

It depends on what you are doing I suppose. I don't use a tripod for most of my type of shooting and I like to shoot one frame at a time, when I can but I roll my finger across the shutter as apposed to pressing hopefully to eliminate a camera shake. Maybe just try rolling your finger slowly.

divamum

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

Switch to a film camera for a few sessions....

You know, I almost wish I hadn't sold mine a couple of years ago - that's actually a very good idea!

I do sometimes try to slow my brain down to work like that, but dang once I get into it...

I've long said that my speed to react to things is both my greatest strength AND my greatest weakness, and I'm sure feeling it this week! I don't mind the EDITING time, but the culling time - aaaaaaggggh. :cry :bash Determined to get this under control.

michaelglenn

What do you use to cull through images? Photo Mechanic has been an absolute lifesaver for me. I can cull through 1,000+ images in about 10-15 mins.

As for advice on shooting less, take into account when you did take that "money shot" during the shoot. Think back at what you did, and you'll start to recognize when you shouldn't snap the shutter as much. If you focus on that, you'll improve.

You can also delete images in between poses, etc.

I'm telling you though..try PhotoMechanic. It will save your life. I usually take a ton of images..but that comes with the whole lifestyle vibe.

divamum

Ooooh.... will go to check that out.... If it seems cleaner than my Picasa + Lightroom workflow for uploading and culling, I will be all over it. That part of the process really is the bottleneck for me.

I think I shoot at "lifestyle vibe" speed for chunks of sessions - I'll get somebody in a good position and then chatter and laugh and move them tiny bits or encourage them to freestyle... and the finger pushes a WHOLE lot of frames.

jonh68

I started to shoot single shot mode so I'm not firing away. I also recommend Photomechanic to cull through photos. You can view them while on the card, tag or color code the ones you like and then copy them to the HD. This saves download time and space. I only copy all the pics if its a wedding or an important gig.

divamum

I do shoot single shot - I don't even want to THINK what it would be like with motordrive....

Mike J

Another vote for photomechanic for culling (and injesting). Photomechanic reads the embedded JPEG in the RAW file so images load very fast allowing you to scroll through the images and zoom to check focus as fast as you can make the decisions and work the keyboard. In fact, I don't use a keyboard for this anymore - I've assigned shortcuts to my wacom tablet's keys so I never have to touch the keyboard or mouse when culling.

Qarik

diva, what are talking about here? how many frames are you shooting a 2 hour session? I may shoot 200-300 frames in an active 2 hour session.

VayCayMom

I know what you mean about the culling process but I deserve it because I do spray and pray sometimes. But since I use Nikon I am not able to help you, I use Nikon ViewX and it is the BEST ever for culling RAW images. Does Canon have anything like it?

anonymouscuban

Modify your camera so that every time you press the shutter release, you get zapped by electricity.

divamum

Trudy, Canon does have its own software, but I don't enjoy using it at all. I will occasionally drag it out for Canon-specific features, but it just doesn't handle the way I'm so used to in LR, or even Picasa (which I continue to use for importing - I find it a much more streamlined interface than LR, even if it isn't as sophisticated)

Qarik wrote: »

diva, what are talking about here? how many frames are you shooting a 2 hour session? I may shoot 200-300 frames in an active 2 hour session.

Too damn many! Particularly when my clients are very high energy - I'll admit that amps me up and I shoot more - it's probably about 300+ for my shorter session, and in a full 4-5hr session (with MUA, multiple looks etc etc) 800-1000. Some of those are intentional "safety" extras because of shallow depth of field, but some of it is because I get too into it and just fire away when I get excited by what I see :giggle

I'm never going to be a "shoot 100 and that's it" photographer but the workflow is definitely too slow for me to comfortably keep up with the volume I'm taking at the moment (I'll admit - it's been very busy in the last 6 weeks). Going to trial photomechanic; if I can speed up the culling that will help immensely

Alex, remind me not to ask you for assistance the next time I reach for a chocolate chip cookie ...

Marcin Wuu

I used to do that too. Shoot hundreds and hundreds of frames. But I realised it's not working so I started spending more time watching my subjects before shooting. During the MUA and small talk phase, and in the breaks when we talk about music and poses. I watch and try to put down the moments when the light and pose are right, and which profile is better Then I try to reconstruct these moments. And I'm extremely precise, I'll have my subject do very exactly what I want. The downside is, this eliminates spontaneous shots. Upside, I rarely shoot more than a hundred digital frames plus eighteen analog (two rolls). And, since digital is kind of a polaroid for me, I delete almost all of them right away. But my typical yield from a session is about three frames, sometimes one, rarely as much as five. Not sure how that stands to your client's expectations...

Qarik

with just lightroom, I can cull 1000 frames to say 100 frames in about 2 hours. Not terribly efficient but not too slow either. (it take longer to import then culling I think) How long is it taking you cull? Is it the actual culling time that is bothering or the inefficiency of your shooting?

Some tips on more efficient shooting.

1) shoot slightly wider. How many times have you shot a frame and you threw it away because you clipped a limb or didn't like the amount of neg space? happens to me a lot until I just forced myself to frame a little wider then I might have.


2) pause and look carefully through the viewfinder before pressing button. this is the most obvious, simple and effective but hardest to do. you like the light and angle? now look closer..are there stray hairs? frumpled clothing? an off hand position? don't press the button until you are 90% in love with the shot. If you don't like the shot when you shoot it then you won't like it later.

divamum

Qarik wrote: »

with just lightroom, I can cull 1000 frames to say 100 frames in about 2 hours. Not terribly efficient but not too slow either. (it take longer to import then culling I think) How long is it taking you cull? Is it the actual culling time that is bothering or the inefficiency of your shooting?

A little bit of both, but the more I think about it, the more it's the former - it takes me WAY too long to prepare the proofset. I know we have all joked for a while about my deep editing, but that doesn't happen until after the client has seen proofs and chooses their shots, and I actually have that down to a pretty streamlined system now - I seldom put in more than about 30 minutes per final image (sometimes quite a lot less, sometimes a little more, but only if there is a LOT that needs doing). A simple, natural-light image that only needs light retouching is 10 minutes or less per; I sometimes don't even take it out of lightroom if the client has good youthful skin.

Culling workflow:

Pass 1 - I just quickly scan the raw import as the filmstrip in LR and 1* the handful which leap out at me, and reject/delete the obvious tossers (obvious misfocus, blinks, flash misfires etc)

Pass 2 - image by image, enlarging 1:1 checking for accurate eye focus (and yes, there are times during this phase I wish I was a Nikon shooter on this score!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ). If I want it, it gets 1*. Any which don't have accurate eyes get deleted unless they are SO amazing in some other way that I want to see if I can save it, in which case I tag it Red. Those which are neither starred nor deleted stay, unrated.

Pass 3 - a repeat of 2, but looking only at the unrated shots

Pass 4 (usually the next day when I've had a chance to step away from it) - a repeat of 2, but only look at the rated shots (and deleting ones which aren't worth keeping).

I HAVE to improve my efficiency on this. Just have to.

Marcin, actors/performers want LOTS of shots to choose from - 200-500 delivered proofs is pretty much industry "norm" for a full session. I don't specify a number of shots to clients, but typically deliver ~50-65 proofs on the short session (which is only an hour), and 150-250 proofs on the full session (3-5 hrs, multiple looks). These are PROOFS, not fully edited images (processed, basic tweaks, but not deep retouching/finishing). Again, it's not editing time that's killing me - I think my efficiency there is actually getting pretty decent - but getting the proofset culled and compiled.

Thanks for the thoughts guys - appreciated. Y'all are helping me to clarify the problem so I can work on a solution

Marcin Wuu

Well, if you need a large quantity of selects, you make a lot of material to choose from. I don't think you'll be able to cut down on the shots if you need such an insane number of photos for your client

I'd really like to sit down and watch you work I think I'd learn a lot about efficiency - each one of my photos takes days of processing

michaelglenn

Definitely try out PhotoMechanic! And Qarik..two hours for 1000 frames?! Oh my gosh I need to convert everyone. If you don't like the program, follow Alex's advice. It's just as effective .

But in all seriousness, feel free to shoot me a PM and I give you the ins and outs of culling quick with PhotoMechanic

jonh68

divamum wrote: »

A little bit of both, but the more I think about it, the more it's the former - it takes me WAY too long to prepare the proofset. I know we have all joked for a while about my deep editing, but that doesn't happen until after the client has seen proofs and chooses their shots, and I actually have that down to a pretty streamlined system now - I seldom put in more than about 30 minutes per final image (sometimes quite a lot less, sometimes a little more, but only if there is a LOT that needs doing). A simple, natural-light image that only needs light retouching is 10 minutes or less per; I sometimes don't even take it out of lightroom if the client has good youthful skin.

Culling workflow:

Pass 1 - I just quickly scan the raw import as the filmstrip in LR and 1* the handful which leap out at me, and reject/delete the obvious tossers (obvious misfocus, blinks, flash misfires etc)

Pass 2 - image by image, enlarging 1:1 checking for accurate eye focus (and yes, there are times during this phase I wish I was a Nikon shooter on this score!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ). If I want it, it gets 1*. Any which don't have accurate eyes get deleted unless they are SO amazing in some other way that I want to see if I can save it, in which case I tag it Red. Those which are neither starred nor deleted stay, unrated.

Pass 3 - a repeat of 2, but looking only at the unrated shots

Pass 4 (usually the next day when I've had a chance to step away from it) - a repeat of 2, but only look at the rated shots (and deleting ones which aren't worth keeping).

I HAVE to improve my efficiency on this. Just have to.

Marcin, actors/performers want LOTS of shots to choose from - 200-500 delivered proofs is pretty much industry "norm" for a full session. I don't specify a number of shots to clients, but typically deliver ~50-65 proofs on the short session (which is only an hour), and 150-250 proofs on the full session (3-5 hrs, multiple looks). These are PROOFS, not fully edited images (processed, basic tweaks, but not deep retouching/finishing). Again, it's not editing time that's killing me - I think my efficiency there is actually getting pretty decent - but getting the proofset culled and compiled.

Thanks for the thoughts guys - appreciated. Y'all are helping me to clarify the problem so I can work on a solution

Photomechanic will help in your process. I can take upwards of over 600 shots sometimes. I use PM to sort out the best pics and the so-so pics. It gets narrowed down to about 100-150. I download those to the HD.

I then use DXO to make a basic edit of the pictures in batch. Basic is horizon adjustment, crops, exposure etc. Because it is run in batch you can also select the output too. Sometimes I want just a DNG conversion, others I just want a jpg out of it, or even something websize. All the outputs can be done at the same time and into different folders.

Once the batch is done, I go back to photomechanic and look at the DNG output folder. If I want a quick web gallery made for client proofing, I just select all the photos and do a save as option with a small web formatted picture and upload. I then go back over and start selecting the strongest pictures and edit.

The beauty of PM is you can select your main editing program as the default editor so you can jump straight to your editor through PM, like it is a part of it. If you need to edit 20 pics, you select those 20, and then PM opens your edit program and your pics are there waiting to be edited.

Most the time the client pics the photos I thought were the strongest too. With this method, I can get a decently edited proof gallery of 100-160 photos up in about 2hrs from the time I start the process.

Instead of changing how you shoot, maybe you should look into changing your workflow. Do batch process on a bunch of the photos, and then narrow it down for the extensive edits.

Marcin Wuu

Um, I just thought about something.
At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, isn't Ligtroom with it's star rating, flagging, temporary collections and colour marking a perfect tool for quick culling? And it's editing tools are pretty much unparalelled, save for Photoshop of course, but even compared to that it has many advantages...

Mike J

Marcin Wuu wrote: »

Um, I just thought about something.
At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, isn't Ligtroom with it's star rating, flagging, temporary collections and colour marking a perfect tool for quick culling? And it's editing tools are pretty much unparalelled, save for Photoshop of course, but even compared to that it has many advantages...

Yes and no. The problem with culling RAW images in LR is that it has process the image which causes lags when advancing through and zooming into the images. Photomechanic reads the embedded JPEG in the RAW file so advancing through and zooming into images is lightning fast.

Qarik

michaelglenn wrote: »

Definitely try out PhotoMechanic! And Qarik..two hours for 1000 frames?! Oh my gosh I need to convert everyone. If you don't like the program, follow Alex's advice. It's just as effective .

But in all seriousness, feel free to shoot me a PM and I give you the ins and outs of culling quick with PhotoMechanic

okay what's the trick in PM? you say you can cull 1000 frames in 10-15 min? I take 2 passes to cull. 1st pass is I cut the obvious crap photos but I also I have looked at the whole set and I now an idea of the overall quality and such (maybe 2 secs and image). 2nd pass is more critical and I look more closely at focus and such (3-5 sec an image). And there really is not much lag in the going from one image to another..maybe 1/4 second? So that put me around 2 hours.

I just don't see how PM would help much as I need the time to evaluate a shot one by one anyway?

edit: i just watched a couple of you tube video on PM. Yeah..I see it now. The shots just come up instantly and you can see more than one image at a time and "select" the one you want to keep instead of rejecting.

michaelglenn

Qarik wrote: »

okay what's the trick in PM? you say you can cull 1000 frames in 10-15 min? I take 2 passes to cull. 1st pass is I cut the obvious crap photos but I also I have looked at the whole set and I now an idea of the overall quality and such (maybe 2 secs and image). 2nd pass is more critical and I look more closely at focus and such (3-5 sec an image). And there really is not much lag in the going from one image to another..maybe 1/4 second? So that put me around 2 hours.

I just don't see how PM would help much as I need the time to evaluate a shot one by one anyway?

edit: i just watched a couple of you tube video on PM. Yeah..I see it now. The shots just come up instantly and you can see more than one image at a time and "select" the one you want to keep instead of rejecting.

I also do two passes as well, but there is no lag existent. Like Mike J mentioned, PM reads the embedded jpeg within the RAW image to bring up a thumbnail real fast. It doesn't bottleneck the computer, and it actually makes culling a painless process.

It's very easy to organize with PM too. You can tag photos you want to keep with the shortcut "T" on the keyboard, and then only view your tagged photos. From there, you can drag + drop into LR, ACR, or PS. The program is especially great for those that tend to shoot a lot in the RAW format, like myself

divamum

Mike J wrote: »

Yes and no. The problem with culling RAW images in LR is that it has process the image which causes lags when advancing through and zooming into the images. Photomechanic reads the embedded JPEG in the RAW file so advancing through and zooming into images is lightning fast.

This. THIS.

Ok, tomorrow with luck I should have time to install the trial of PM and give it a go................

wave01

Hi i am a canon shooter and after a session i have between 200- 300 shots. I use cannons DPP to load from the camera this takes me to a folder view and i select quick view and from here i can look at each picture zoom to 50% and rate it first cull takes about 30mins. i use the ethos if i have to think about it for to long, its no use. cull and move on. From here i import to Aperture 3 and work from there. hope that helps

shming

I see that Bryce has already said what I'm going to suggest. Switch to a film camera for a couple of sessions. Not just a 35mm, but give medium format 645 camera. You can get them used for so cheap. Our work is 90% film these days and not for nostalgia reasons. It just forces us to think more thus resulting in more keepers. I guess it depends where you want to spend your time in the end though - Scanning or culling. Both are good and neither are bad. Best of Luck!!!!

K.

anonymouscuban

divamum wrote: »

This. THIS.

Ok, tomorrow with luck I should have time to install the trial of PM and give it a go................

You guys need faster computers/more memory and to change your LR settings for preview so it doesn't load the image at high res.

divamum

QUESTION for Michael Glenn: Ok, so I have the trial. Installed. Thumbs/contact sheet is indeed lightning fast (and thumbs can be made bigger than in LR - big BIG plus on that).

HOWEVER.... when I double click to go to the full-size, single image preview I just get a big blank -nothing there!

Also, everything says "expired".

Screenshot below (top = contact sheet; bottom = attempt to enlarge single image)

Point me to a manual if these are basic questions, otherwise... any ideas?

jpc

anonymouscuban wrote: »

You guys need faster computers/more memory and to change your LR settings for preview so it doesn't load the image at high res.

What he said...

Hackbone

First try a much smaller cf card. On jobs where I don't want to shoot alot I use a 1gb or 512MB card. That will stop you quickly.

Take a shot, evaluate it. Keep it or correct it and retake, then move on. I realize with a great subject you can overdo and thats ok but you must remember your time is money.

Maybe keep track of your prep time, shooting time, culling time, retouching time, presenting time and then divide that into what you charged. YOU MIGHT GET A HUGE SHOCK! Like a buck or two an hour. That will make you shoot less.

I don't think you have a culling problem as much as a shooting problem.

jonh68

divamum wrote: »

QUESTION for Michael Glenn: Ok, so I have the trial. Installed. Thumbs/contact sheet is indeed lightning fast (and thumbs can be made bigger than in LR - big BIG plus on that).

HOWEVER.... when I double click to go to the full-size, single image preview I just get a big blank -nothing there!

Also, everything says "expired".

Screenshot below (top = contact sheet; bottom = attempt to enlarge single image)

Point me to a manual if these are basic questions, otherwise... any ideas?

You don't have to double click. If you click on the magnifying glass it will pop up full screen viewer. If that doesn't work then there is something wrong with install or a computer conflict.