NOTICE: End of DSS....

JAG

After much discussion and thought it has been decided that; due to very low participation this past year, to cancel the Digital Sharp Shooter's Challenge for an undetermined time.

The Mini-Challenges will still be up and running as they are now and the Never Ending Alphabet thread will continue. On occasion, I might even throw in a challenge for you all to try or even learn something new. But they will be put on the main board and entries will go on its own thread and no voting or prizes will be given. It will mainly be for the experience.

If in the future, participation on the board picks up, we can always bring back other bigger challenges. Thank you to all who have stuck in there and made these challenges exciting. The current #135 voting round will be the last one and the winners will receive the usual prizes.

JC

My impression of Dgrin- for the owners, it exists primarily for the purpose of providing a feedback forum for Smugmug, and anything else is just extra. They make the other forum space available, but leave it up to the users to make of it what they will.

Ironically, I discovered Smugmug through Dgrin, not the other way around.

I like Dgrin, because it's the easiest photo discussion forum to navigate, for me, I like the layout. But it's like pulling teeth in the forums that I use to get critical feedback, which is what this particular forum user would will. Since I've been a member, the forum dedicated to criticism has disappeared, and the mods suggested that the topical forums could provide an avenue for that feedback. But, in Landscapes and Other Cool Shots, at least, the usual response is just a bunch of 'good jobs' and "I like its ! " Muench University in the Landscape forum is now defunct, apparently as well.

I stopped participating (albeit, infrequently) in the DSS, because apart from the voting feedback, it was difficult to get feedback on submissions, and people spent more time arguing on when was the appropriate time to give feedback than they did actually giving constructive feedback, but I guess that won't be an issue anymore.

If my impression of Dgrin is correct, then i guess it doesn't really matter that it seems like there are fewer and fewer draws for the user forums, as long as the feedback forums continue to function. If the owners do have a larger goal for the forums, then I wish I saw steps to encourage more participation, rather than the dismantling of options.

grandmaR

I think this last one had too long a time frame. I know it is hard to think of things that are easy enough for a lot of people to participate and hard enough to make it interesting for the pros.

I always hesitate to say "I hate this photo". I can say, I like a better than b. But I don't like to say that I just don't like one, especially since my opinions are a bit old fashioned. It's like when I eat pancakes. I always eat one with just butter so I can taste the pancake part before I put the syrup on it. And in photos, I don't like some of the 'enhancements' that people love to use - I'd rather see something that would be closer to what I would see in person, with the enhancements that my own eyes would supply.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see the DSS end. A lot of the photos that I took for those are photos that I would never think of taking in real life and while it was interesting to try, I'm just not into what I consider 'art' photography (like all the moving lights things). The Tilt Shift thing (which I don't really understand) DOES make VERY interesting and logically enhanced photos- I like that technique and if I could figure out how to do it, I think it would be useful.

PedalGirl

Really sad to hear this. :cry I have really enjoyed participating in the challenges the past couple of years and will really miss it. FWIW, I think adding more time just gave people more time to procrastinate and possibly had the opposite effect than was intended. In any case, I hope the challenges can make a come back at some point in time. The challenges was the reason I hung out on Dgrin.

JC

PedalGirl wrote: »

Really sad to hear this. :cry I have really enjoyed participating in the challenges the past couple of years and will really miss it. FWIW, I think adding more time just gave people more time to procrastinate and possibly had the opposite effect than was intended. In any case, I hope the challenges can make a come back at some point in time. The challenges was the reason I hung out on Dgrin.

What she said. I'm actually kinda glad I participated this time so I don't feel like a hypocrite putting in my 2 cents worth.

I saw the challenge last Tuesday I think, or something like that, and it was timely for something I wanted to try out. I had ideas I didn't get to try out for lack of time (shooting down in middle of a giant library I know, a baseball game), but I might just have procrastinated too long if I'd seen the challenge go up a month ago, and never tried them out anyway.

GretaPics

:cry I'm pretty sad to see these challenges end after participating for about 1 1/2 yrs. I really learned a lot about "how to see" , especially when I first began these and there was more participation in both feedback and photos. I got a kick out of having a certain theme rolling around in my head as I used my camera and I liked seeing the various ways other photographers would interpret those themes. However, with such low participation I agree they've lost some of their luster. Anyway, thanks to the moderators for your time and efforts. Hope there will be a comeback at some point.:cry GP

kdotaylor

I, too, am sad to see this end. I don't have an answer for why participation is down-- maybe the lack of comments and opinions which were so interesting to read; or maybe the narrow focus of the last few challenges. I also think increasing the time frame, for me anyway, had the opposite of its intent...I just did not feel compelled to get out and shoot.

tinamarie52

sad
Before I put in my 2 cents, I'd like to thank the moderators who put so much time and effort into this.

As a long-time participant in the challenges, I can honestly say I grew up here. I went from a new camera owner who didn't know where to start to a semi-accomplished intermediate level photographer who shoots 'professionally' part-time. I grew faster because of these challenges. I shot things outside of my comfort zone. I hoped for honest critiques and coaching and learned to contribute to the critiques.

I don't know if the statistics will back me up, but it seems that much of the decline in participation began when the Mega Challenge disappeared. I think that the Mega was very stimulating because it gave me both a goal and a measure of progress toward that goal. I had a sense of accomplishment when I placed in the top 5 and qualified for a Mega.

If you consider bringing the challegnes back, let me know how I can help.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me grow.

Chris

juanheredia

Really sad to hear this :-)

ian408

Thank you Chris!

johnloguk

Sad news but not unexpected. I posted something along the lines of "the challenges are dying on their feet" not long ago, with participation way down on where we used to be. I have a suggestion as to why the numbers have dropped, although like Tina Marie I have no actual stats to back up my theory.

Losing the Mega challenge and a substantial drop in the prizes offered must have had something to do with it? Maybe people are too kind to say it, but those prizes of money off Smug fees were a heck of an inducement to take part. Wasn't the prize of winning the Mega a lifetime's free membership of Smug? I know a lot of us love the "challenge" of trying new things and would enter even if there wasn't a prize, but if there is a big prize more people will enter, it is simple human nature.

But anyway, a huge thanks from me to Joyce and Sean for all your hard, and often thankless, work. Also to my fellow travellers along the way who have shared their expertise.

JAG

Thank you Chris and John. This decision was not made lightly. We can still have fun here and learn too. I am hoping that the challenges that I put up will be challenging enough for some to still step out of their comfort zone and learn something. But it will heavily depend on critiques to make it a learning tool. Including people learning to critique. I agree what has been said about the lack of constructive critiques in the forums. We have never discourage anyone from posting constructive criticism. We have only intervened when it got into personal attacks.

The month long test run of the challenges was to give those who gave the excuse that they just didn't have enough time to enter, a chance to enter. It is obvious that that is not the real cause of them not entering. Thus, we shall regroup and rebuild. It is up to the community as a whole to make this a successful Dgrin. The community was set up for you all to participate! Participation is more then just entering a picture, it also includes communication, which will encourage more people to open up and participate and makes this an awesome place to be!

jwear

Well I felt it was on its way out ,wish I was wrong.it did lag a bit behind from the year before. I had a lot of fun for a long time with the challenge from way back. Dgrin has bin a place to learn.
I have played with the challenge from the start ,won mini #1 and 3 rd in mini #3 and the standard challenge from when it was a post your shot and get a feed back .I know that my shoots are not like most that are posted here but in the years here I have found my own way of shooting. Have great pride in what I do and this would not be so if it were not for Harry in wildlife and the feed back from challenges.
Did I always say OH YA that would be lots better --- NO but it did always make me look at others shoots and re look at my own. I have gone from how does the camera work to having my shots on office walls and in wildlife calendars [donation] in support of Bolsa Chica and others.
So I am now sad the challenges will be closed and missed ,the wildlife forum has gone this same path. I hope they will and feel they may open it up again? Thanks Dgrin for the long fun run Also you do know my shots should have bin picked #1 in all challenges ----bet you never heard that one before ivar

tinamarie52

Joyce, if you decide to put up a challenge topic, where will you post it? Will it just be a topic on the Dgrin Challenges Forum? In your original post, you referred to the 'main' page. I'm not sure where that is.

Thanks again fro you efforts!!

Chris

kentwaller

sorry to see it go. been very helpful for me. i have been relocating back to the states the past couple of months and my computers are all in storage, so my participation has been down, but was looking forward to getting back into it in a few weeks when my stuff gets here. i entered the last challenge using just my iPad oh well. hope it comes back some day...

The Curious Camel

Oh my this is sad. I will miss it for sure. I wish I had been able to participate more like I use to but just couldn't as much as I would have liked.
Joyce and Sean have done an amazing job and always there to help.
Learned a lot and met lots of great people here.
Hopefully it wont be gone long.
Thanks for great challenges...:)

JAG

tinamarie52 wrote: »

Joyce, if you decide to put up a challenge topic, where will you post it? Will it just be a topic on the Dgrin Challenges Forum? In your original post, you referred to the 'main' page. I'm not sure where that is.

Thanks again fro you efforts!!

Chris

Yes Chris, I meant the Challenge forum. I guess I was thinking if I used the word main page (although sometimes my words come out like that because I cannot think of the word I am looking for), was because as the DSS was, we had the gallery to put it in and the comments were directed to there. These new little challenges I will put up will be placed on a thread in the Challenge forum and the image results will be put on the thread I start. I will also encourage that everyone who is learning and wants critiques and help, start a new thread for their images. Like we use to do.

Thank you Gail. I hope you have time to be able to do the little challenges I put up from time to time!

JAG

jwear wrote: »

.... Thanks Dgrin for the long fun run Also you do know my shots should have bin picked #1 in all challenges ----bet you never heard that one before ivar

*snicker* love your sense of humor! Although, you did have some mighty fine images!

divamum

Very sad to hear this. I haven't participated in quite a while partly due to time-pressuers and photographic commitments requiring my attention elsewhere, but also (as I voiced in the past) because I found the lack of feedback very frustrating. Like others, I grew up in the Challenges here at dgrin; without them, I wouldn't have progressed beyond "quite interested in taking some pictures although I have no technical clue", so the feedback aspect has always been the most important part for me. "Atta girl" is really nice to hear, but I wouldn't ever have grown if people hadn't taken the time to construcively "shred" me - I shall be forever grateful to them for doing so.

My own feeling is that scrapping the monthly judges and going ONLY to "popular vote" is where numbers started to drop. I understand why the decision was made to change things - finding judges was not easy, and even in the (I thought brilliant) "if you win, you judge" scenario I can imagine it was hard to administer. But I do think when it became only about who got the most votes, it started to become a bit of a private club that was tricky for those who weren't longstanding participants to break into; I'm sure some folks didn't bother to submit entries because they felt like they were outside the "clique" of current participants. (That's not a slam on those current participants, by the way, who have always been very friendly in my experience, simply the way things may have been perceived by casual visitors and newbies). Add the reduction of prizes and cancelling the megas, and it all adds up to fewer participants, which is a real shame.

I hope something else may rise from the ashes of this particular phoenix!

cbbr

Thanks to the Mods for all of your hard work. I too am sorry to see it go even though I have not had time to participate in a while. I agree with those who stated that the lack of the "Mega" took some of the fun out of it all - the Mega was always a stretch goal.

ian408

The lack of comment isn't unique to the challenges. It's become fairly common among all the forums (and not just dgrin) including Facebook.

Andy spent some time and created a discussion on writing a critique for a photo. Sadly, people still stick to "nice shot". I recognize it takes some time and effort to write something that's meaningful or useful-I also feel we all gain something when anyone spends the time & effort to provide meaningful feedback.

JAG

ian408 wrote: »

The lack of comment isn't unique to the challenges. It's become fairly common among all the forums (and not just dgrin) including Facebook.

Andy spent some time and created a discussion on writing a critique for a photo. Sadly, people still stick to "nice shot". I recognize it takes some time and effort to write something that's meaningful or useful-I also feel we all gain something when anyone spends the time & effort to provide meaningful feedback.

I blame it on twitter and texting!:D Actually I think the art of communication across all forums everywhere is dying. Who knows, maybe its my perspective because I am getting older, but it seems that I have a hard time communicating with anyone younger than 45, because all they do is text it seems. Even the majority of kids that are in their 20's seem to lack the motivation or desire in how to type out something and refrain from using U for you and other abbreviations that make it difficult to read.

Thus it would seem that making a critique would be impossible for some who do not seem to want to take the time to type out a coherent sentence. But I also believe there is always hope. Hope in building the Challenge board into a useful board again, with the critiques. I for one will be active in doing critiques now that prizes are off the table. I hope others will follow suit! We can build this to be a thriving community once again! Who is with me???!

CAPTURED2H

First off Jag Jeff said thank you for the nice comment he was glad the humor was found. A few of us old folks still talk about a few that ran from dgrin when their shot was not picked and let the group know how stupid they were
I think all comments on the dropping off of the challenge are in some part correct but it is not just one thing it is all of the above. Nothing is forever these days No real pro would enter the challenge if they lost It is a bit sad but dgrin and Jag had to pull the plug the numbers fell and a bit of cheating . Grinners still have 2 the mini and the ABCs when you play in the mini just think BIG
After a bit with luck a challenge will pop up but will u play if there is no pay

Thanks for entertainment

Earache

I too, am sorry to see DSS suspended... I also want to thank the Moderators for all their efforts to make this forum a fun and rewarding place to hang-out.
In fact, I appreciate the work of ALL the Moderators on DGrin - can you imagine the commitment to participation and communication it takes
to accumulate 10, 15, or 20, thousand posts - and to do it all cheerfully and diplomatically? To me, that's damn impressive.... thanks again Mods!

I too, with sadness, have noticed an overall decline in participation in most other forum areas on Dgin. Many long-time regular contributors seemed to have just given-up.
Maybe some are just taking a breather - I guess we all need that sometimes. It actually seems to be part of the rhythm of forum life - in looking at archive posts from years ago,
many prolific contributors have suddenly just disappeared - so, ebb-and-flow change seems to be built-in - as the John Lennon lyric goes; "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"

divamum wrote: »

....... But I do think when it became only about who got the most votes, it started to become a bit of a private club that was tricky for those who weren't longstanding participants to break into; I'm sure some folks didn't bother to submit entries because they felt like they were outside the "clique" of current participants. (That's not a slam on those current participants, by the way, who have always been very friendly in my experience, simply the way things may have been perceived by casual visitors and newbies). Add the reduction of prizes and cancelling the megas, and it all adds up to fewer participants, which is a real shame.

As a relative newcomer, I have to agree with divamum (I usually do because, as a commentator, she has an over-abundance of knowledge, kindness, and fairness - and no, this is not a paid endorsement :-)
- and I thank her for pointing-out the 800 pound gorilla in the room... I'm sure many will not have perceived it this way, or be uncomfortable at the mention - but, for me, it is spot-on.
BTW - this is not unique to DGrin - I have read several similar discussions on other challenge forums.

Change is a good thing sometimes, and I hope to continue to participate to, as Jag encouraged us; "build a thriving community once again"
It's a worthwhile goal, and with a bit of patience and understanding applied to our differences (communication styles, life experiences, artistic vision, etc...) as individuals,
it's probably quite doable. (I am the first person that I know, needs to heed my own advice).

But, I ramble.... Peace-out.

divamum

~blush~ Thanks for the very kind words, Eric. Credit dgrin with anything I may know, since this is where it all started!

rteest42

So, I won't be saying anything that hasn't been said in the two pages previous, but I might as well pipe in!
I know, I have been lax the last few months (possibly more)....can't attribute it to any one thing, attention being drawn this way and that.

But.

When I first started the challenges, one of the things I really liked was that the previous winners were the judges and that it wasn't simply a popularity contest. I mean this in the best way---Choose your favorite 10, EVERYONE! Don't rank, don't back up your votes, just vote.

Did it mean that those who were more vocal on the board, more known, got more votes simply because they were 'recognized'?
Dunno.

I do know that most times, even with specific requests for feedback if I posted early, I got nothing. Crickets.

I LIKED the feedback. I liked the tear the photo apart and defend why it's better than the others.

And yes, the Mega was fun! Something to attain.

So, can't say much, but I will miss it....

THANKS TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO RUN IT!!!!

JAG

Stay tuned. There is more challenging things in the works!:lurk

tsk1979

JAG wrote: »

Stay tuned. There is more challenging things in the works!:lurk

Waiting with bated breath. I participated in a few, and even won a couple. I would love to see some challenges back.
I think the smugmug facebook page(large userbase) and be mobilized. If Smugmug facebook page started advertising challenges, you would see more people registering and participating.

sapphire73

Two weeks ago today I had a total knee replacement of my left knee. And one of my motivating factors in having the surgery was to be able to be active with my photography again! I was specifically looking forward to participating in the dgrin challenges, but I can well understand the rationale for tweaking things a bit. Looking forward to seeing what JAG and company offer us and how the dgrin community responds.

Others have mentioned feeling welcomed and nurtured by this community. I have learned so much here! I never felt that the voting was a popularity contest and was pleased to see many newcomers win and/or place very well in the voting. I encouraged a friend to join dgrin and she did for a while. Her first entry placed in the top 3 (when there was a mega and a regular challenge).

Sean and JAG - thank you for supporting this forum over the years and continuing to look for new ways to make it a fun, nurturing, challenging place for all!

Gretchen

JC

It's a little bit ironic that after the general trend in this thread bemoaning the lack of constructive feedback as an integral part of the challenges, that with ~27 people voting this last time, the amount of constructive feedback in the entry gallery is........

dixonduke

FWIW. As a reader of DGRIN using the New Posts link and not by going to the individual galleries (sub-forums??), I often did not realize that challenge was even in the works until the voting thread was posted.

I would click on the vote thread and vote when I saw it, but sometimes I would click on it and voting was already closed.