http://digitalgrinphotography.blogspot.com/ reproducing dgrin content

JC

http://digitalgrinphotography.blogspot.com/

What is this blog, and why is it reproducing Dgrin content? (ie, all our photos?)

whois:

Name MARKMONITOR INC.
Whois Server whois.markmonitor.com
Referral URL http://www.markmonitor.com
Status clientDeleteProhibited, clientTransferProhibited, clientUpdateProhibited, serverDeleteProhibited, serverTransferProhibited, serverUpdateProhibited
Important Dates
Expires On July 31, 2015
Registered On July 31, 2000
Updated On June 29, 2014
Name Servers
ns1.google.com 216.239.32.10
ns2.google.com 216.239.34.10
ns3.google.com 216.239.36.10
ns4.google.com 216.239.38.10

Earache

Well, that sucks I suppose... I mean, once we post, it's "out there" so-to-speak - but, I don't like this wrinkle...
Thanks for catching this JC.

Richard

Sigh. Another content farmer. We went through this a few years ago with some Arabic site. I get redirected to a .es (Spain's TLD) version of the site, but the sidebar is in French. Pretty sloppy. On first glance, it looks like they are sucking up everything. I don't have the energy to investigate further today, but I'll poke into it tomorrow. The recourse is to send DMCA takedown notices to the ISP. Google it, if you've never been through this before.

David_S85

This is why I try to have watermarks on everything I post here, or at other forums.

Richard

I filed a DMCA complaint with Blogger/Blogspot and I encourage you all to do the same. Remember, you are the holder of the copyright, not Dgrin, so takedown notices must come from you.

There is an online form that is fairly simple to fill out: https://support.google.com/legal/contact/lr_dmca?product=blogger The best way to shut this thing down is for Google to get a lot of these requests from us.

Edit: To fill out the form, you need to supply a link to the Dgrin thread that was copied and a link to the Blogspot thread. They have copied almost everything starting in March, 2014. Look for your stuff by selecting the appropriate month in the sidebar, then use the search function of your browser to find the title you gave the thread in Dgrin. You can use Dgrin's advanced search to find all the threads you started in that time period.

Sam

Thanks Richard!

I went ahead and filled out the form.

I think this thread should be moved to the business section to gain a more readership.

I would love to see more Dgrinners complain to Google.
Google is the responsible party here.

I contacted Markmonitor Inc and found out they really don't have any responsibility here. They simply sold the domain / sub domain "Blogspot" to Google.

Another interesting piece of info. All the exif data has been striped from my images but when you double click the image you will be taken to my website.

Yet if your pirated image contains your exif data double clicking on the image will not take you anywhere????

Sam

Richard

Yes, my images still contain EXIF data (including my copyright notice) and clicking on them does nothing. Another thing I noticed is that the links to my images are done through a bitly URL shortener (itt.tt), which makes it impossible to use a Google search to find other hot-linked instances. Pretty sneaky.

I'm sorry to report that Google has not honored my takedown request so far, and I have not received any explanation for their lack of action. In addition, ads are now appearing with my posts--they weren't at at first--so it's clear that this is an ad revenue rip-off scheme. They are still harvesting our posts and images.

I know things are slow here these days, but I'm a little surprised at the lack of response. This "blog" is stealing stuff from everyone who posts on Dgrin. Piracy used to bring out the torches and pitchforks.

Sam

Richard,

Yes Dgrin has slowed up. I think it's global warming.

I really think we need to move it to the business thread. Not many, including me, visit this thread.

Sam

Richard

Sam wrote: »

I really think we need to move it to the business thread. Not many, including me, visit this thread.

Sam

OK, we'll give that a try.

Eia

Is there a way to find out if a photo has been infringed upon by entering our whole website vs. each individual photo? Dang - just saw quite a few of mine...one being sold and a few used for commercial and a few on blogs but that doesn't bother me as much as trying to sell. And I'm not even a pro! My EXIF data has copyright all over it as well as website.

Richard

The blog has a navigation bar on the right. It's organized by month, with November already open at the top. Then there's a list of entries, which are same as the thread titles you used on Dgrin. To get to earlier threads, scroll to the bottom and click on the month to get to the list. It's sometimes hard to read the titles because they merge with the pics at times. The quickest way to find your stuff is to use your browser's text search to go to the title you used.

Eia: Your (very nice) Prison Colors is here: http://digitalgrinphotography.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/prison-colors.html and Waves of Clouds is here: http://digitalgrinphotography.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/waves-of-clouds.html I'm sure there are more.

BTW, Google finally did take down the threads I complained about, but the "blog" is still in business. I imagine that they will take it down if they receive enough complaints, so please take the time to look for your stuff and use the link I gave in an earlier post to file a takedown demand.

EDIT: It took some digging, but I finally found some information on how Google handles repeat offenders:

Our current repeat infringer policy counts strikes by 24-hour periods. For example, if 5 blog posts were removed under the DMCA today, those removals would count as 1 strike. If 3 more posts were removed on the following day, those would count as 1 additional strike, totaling 2 strikes against that blogger's account. Multiple strikes will be evaluated and may result in further remedial action, including deletion of the blog and/or terminating the account.

I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier, as I reported a bunch of cases at once. It looks like the most effective approach is to report each case on a different day. It's also less boring that way .

TammyGPhoto

wow..i want to know how the heck it is even getting this info if this is a locked forum? that is insane! what is the point if any schmuck can grab this stuff!! i don't think i have posted any photos but have looked for coding help...mmm..will have to go see what is what!!

and i have a few friends that run blogs overseas..and this has happened to them on a few occasions...copied their entire blog word for word into another language...just crazy!

Jim McClain

I see my own posts and pictures on that blog and have sent my first complaint to Google. I will continue to send a new complaint every day until I have reported all of my posts and pictures. The form was pretty easy to fill out. It took me about 10 minutes in all. I hope it's worth the time.

Jim

denisegoldberg

TammyGPhoto wrote: »

wow..i want to know how the heck it is even getting this info if this is a locked forum?

You must be logged on to add threads or comment on existing threads in dgrin but the forum is available to the public for reading.

--- Denise

Richard

Jim McClain wrote: »

I see my own posts and pictures on that blog and have sent my first complaint to Google. I will continue to send a new complaint every day until I have reported all of my posts and pictures. The form was pretty easy to fill out. It took me about 10 minutes in all. I hope it's worth the time.

Jim

Every time I start a thread on Dgrin, I find it the next day on Blogspot and submit another form. Google does take down the posts after a few days. If everyone would do the same, I think Google would shut it down.

Jim McClain

Richard wrote: »

Every time I start a thread on Dgrin, I find it the next day on Blogspot and submit another form. Google does take down the posts after a few days. If everyone would do the same, I think Google would shut it down.

But you also posted this from Google:

Multiple strikes will be evaluated and may result in further remedial action, including deletion of the blog and/or terminating the account.

How do they define "multiple"? The main purpose of that blog is to make money off ad clicks - Google Adsense ad clicks. Google makes money that way too. They have less (don't confuse that with NO) incentive to remove ill-gotten content when the page is generating revenue. It may be only tiny amounts, but millions of tiny amounts adds up to a lot.

Something else that seems to be overlooked: the blog name itself is copyright infringement, isn't it? Hasn't the owners of dgrin.com copyrighted the name "Digital Grin Photography"? Wouldn't a DMCA based on that bring down their whole site?

I own a somewhat popular niche forum too and I would not ask my members to submit complaints to anyone if their posts were copied. That is MY content, as the owner of the site they posted to. It's a standard for all websites, although dgrin.com owners/admins have left that field blank in their Admin Control Panel (vBulletin Options > Site Name/URL/Contact Details > Copyright Text) and also don't appear to have a Terms of Use statement/page either. I realize dgrin is under no obligation to provide that and their member registration agreement absolves them of any legal responsibility, but it is their website and their content that is being stolen, even if it was us members who originally gave that content to dgrin.com. If it were me, I would call it a moral obligation to my members - a fiduciary responsibility to those who trust me to provide them a safe and secure virtual community.

Jim

Richard

Jim McClain wrote: »

...
Something else that seems to be overlooked: the blog name itself is copyright infringement, isn't it? Hasn't the owners of dgrin.com copyrighted the name "Digital Grin Photography"? Wouldn't a DMCA based on that bring down their whole site?...

That's a good point, Jim. Perhaps leftquark or Baldy could jump in on this aspect.

Jim McClain

Oh jeez, look what I just found: http://simplenewz.com/2014-10-05/Mainstream/feed/16427 Looks like another website is copying dgrin content. I did a search to see where on the Net one of my images might be and found that.

I have decided it's just best to rename the images on my server (I hotlink my images here instead of using the upload system). That will, unfortunately, cause all my images on dgrin to go blank (or a red X with some browsers).

Jim

Sam

I tried to call Google's customer service twice on two separate days. surprise, surprise........no one answers.

I think they must be too busy counting money to concern themselves with companies violating their terms of service or pesky copyright issues.

Sam

JAG

Jim McClain wrote: »

I see my own posts and pictures on that blog and have sent my first complaint to Google. I will continue to send a new complaint every day until I have reported all of my posts and pictures. The form was pretty easy to fill out. It took me about 10 minutes in all. I hope it's worth the time.

Jim

Where is the link to send in a complaint? They just posted one of my posts.

EDIT. ...Never mind, I found it.

Richard

JAG wrote: »

Where is the link to send in a complaint? They just posted one of my posts.

https://support.google.com/legal/contact/lr_dmca?product=blogger

Check out my post (#5) above.

JAG

I filed a complaint. According to Google's TOU, they will delete the account if they receive 10 reports. I mentioned in my notes that I am a moderator here and that they have been copying content Daily since February 2014 directly from dgrin.com and that I would like ALL dgrin content removed immediately. Don't know if anything will come from it. I am just a mod.

Richard

JAG wrote: »

I filed a complaint. According to Google's TOU, they will delete the account if they receive 10 reports. I mentioned in my notes that I am a moderator here and that they have been copying content Daily since February 2014 directly from dgrin.com and that I would like ALL dgrin content removed immediately. Don't know if anything will come from it. I am just a mod.

The legal issues are a little strange, but it's important for people here to understand them. The blog is infringing on the copyrights of the original posters--Dgrin (or SmugMug) do not own any rights to the content we post. (Still waiting for a response to the issue Jim raised about the use of the Digital Grin name). Despite the obvious systematic copying, Google will not act unless they get enough (and frequent enough) complaints from the original posters, who are the only ones with legal standing.

Jim McClain

Richard wrote: »

The legal issues are a little strange, but it's important for people here to understand them. The blog is infringing on the copyrights of the original posters--Dgrin (or SmugMug) do not own any rights to the content we post.

Yes, they do. This website and all of its content is owned by dgrin.com. As members, we voluntarily provide that content to dgrin for the sole benefit of learning from and being entertained by our fellow photography enthusiasts. We may choose to share the same content at one or more other forums or websites too, but that still doesn't take away the rights of dgrin to use our contributions in any way they see fit. They may choose not to edit or re-post or transfer the content to any other entity, but what is posted here at dgrin is owned by dgrin. If another website steals that content, they are stealing from dgrin, not from you or I.

I belong to dozens of forums, including those that serve forum owners and webmasters. I know of none that don't operate under that premise. If dgrin is different, then that would be a first for me in the 20+ years I have been involved in website and forum management.

Digital Grin owner(s) should have our back on this. Where are they in this conversation that has been active for nearly a month?

Jim

Sam

Jim McClain wrote: »

Yes, they do. This website and all of its content is owned by dgrin.com. As members, we voluntarily provide that content to dgrin for the sole benefit of learning from and being entertained by our fellow photography enthusiasts. We may choose to share the same content at one or more other forums or websites too, but that still doesn't take away the rights of dgrin to use our contributions in any way they see fit. They may choose not to edit or re-post or transfer the content to any other entity, but what is posted here at dgrin is owned by dgrin. If another website steals that content, they are stealing from dgrin, not from you or I.

I belong to dozens of forums, including those that serve forum owners and webmasters. I know of none that don't operate under that premise. If dgrin is different, then that would be a first for me in the 20+ years I have been involved in website and forum management.

Digital Grin owner(s) should have our back on this. Where are they in this conversation that has been active for nearly a month?

Jim

Jim,

Digital Grin does not own the content / images posted by users like you and I. That little dot at the end of my sentence is a period, meaning that's it folks, there ain't no and, if's or buts.

Sam

Jim McClain

Sam wrote: »

Jim,

Digital Grin does not own the content / images posted by users like you and I. That little dot at the end of my sentence is a period, meaning that's it folks, there ain't no and, if's or buts.

Sam

I disagree, but probably the only definitive answer could come from the owner of dgrin.com. For some reason, there is no ToS, Copyright or Privacy statement available here. That means neither your or my opinions in this matter can be taken as fact.

Jim

kdog

Jim McClain wrote: »

I disagree, but probably the only definitive answer could come from the owner of dgrin.com. For some reason, there is no ToS, Copyright or Privacy statement available here. That means neither your or my opinions in this matter can be taken as fact.

Jim

Actually there is a [thread=8985]TOS here[/thread]. Although it's a bit light on the legalese, it does touch upon content ownership (you are responsible, not Dgrin) and privacy (Dgrin keeps your identity private unless required by law enforcement). My take is that Sam's interpretation is correct; you own your content, not Dgrin.

David_S85

Jim, once again, DigitalGrin and Smugmug, the company that operates this forum, do not own poster's content (my own words -- "my content" -- that I post to it; especially the photos I post of my own). This is why Dgrin has a Terms of Service agreement that we all abide to. Baldy will chime in if and when he wishes on this.

Jim McClain

kdog wrote: »

Actually there is a [thread=8985]TOS here[/thread]. Although it's a bit light on the legalese, it does touch upon content ownership (you are responsible, not Dgrin) and privacy (Dgrin keeps your identity private unless required by law enforcement).

That is not a legally binding ToS, it is a thread on a message board. An example of a legally binding ToS, see this: http://www.smugmug.com/about/terms/ All the owner/admin of dgrin would have to do is to copy that to a page (not a thread) here on dgrin and then use the admin CP to link to it, providing a ToS link in the footer of every page of the site. There would be a second step required: either replace every instance of "SmugMug" with "Digital Grin" or change the header that appears at the top of every page to read "a service of SmugMug" instead of "Hosted by SmugMug" (or some other phrase that makes it plain it is owned by SmugMug and not just provided space on their server by SmugMug). There also should be a Privacy page, just like here: http://www.smugmug.com/about/privacy/ This is also a part of the forum software's standard features, whereby the page you create can be linked to in the footer of every page, as it should.

David_S85 wrote: »

Jim, once again, DigitalGrin and Smugmug, the company that operates this forum, do not own poster's content (my own words -- "my content" -- that I post to it; especially the photos I post of my own). This is why Dgrin has a Terms of Service agreement that we all abide to. Baldy will chime in if and when he wishes on this.

Once again, I disagree. Although you have the right to manage your contributions here, you also license all that content to dgrin (or SmugMug, if they are in fact the owners of this service called a support forum). They may not be able to sell it without your permission, but they have control over it and can use it as they see fit. Read section 6 of the ToS I linked to above. Of course, as I stated before, that is not a legally binding ToS for dgrin - not until they make it so.

My position is not to be argumentative here. I have worked as a webmaster, including a forum owner and administrator for a number of Internet properties for well over 15 years. I have a little experience in the legal aspects of forum ownership. "A bit light on the legalese" means it is not legally binding. Not having clearly defined terms and privacy statements that any visitor to the site can find on any page they are on is a serious omission. And the owners of this site allowing the discussion of our contributions being scraped by some Internet scourge to go on for this long without assuring us that they are taking the necessary steps to stop it is disheartening.

Jim

kdog

Jim McClain wrote: »

That is not a legally binding ToS, it is a thread on a message board.

Not quite right, as you agreed to the ToS when you registered on the site.

Jim McClain

I agreed to the rules. I'm sorry you don't understand the difference. I'm sorry my comments, information and opinions have taken away from the real problem. I'm sorry the problem brought to light by the OP has not been addressed by the owner/admin of dgrin.

Jim