I was behind one of these at a red light, on my bike. I tried to keep up as it accelerated away. I was dismayed that it pulled away from me. A GS is pokey for a bike, but can dust most cars. Not this one.
I was behind one of these at a red light, on my bike. I tried to keep up as it accelerated away. I was dismayed that it pulled away from me. A GS is pokey for a bike, but can dust most cars. Not this one.
the M-coupe is the only car (I've driven) that can easily do donuts on dry pavement. I realize you can light 'em up in any old camaro, but I'm talking easily and controllably drift it around a parking lot without too much drama, tires full ablaze. Think of driving a small 2wd pickup truck or something similar in the snow (something more of us have had a chance to do), that's what this car is like in the summer.
Worst handling car I ever owned was the 318i. That thing could go into a spontaneous drift if I was driving it on a road of 400 grit sandpaper.
Third worst handling car I ever had was the 325es. The sport-tuned suspension helped it eclipse the 318 by some margin, but it was still a bit front heavy and twitchy. Loved all its other virtues though ('xcept the lease payments).
Second worst handling car was the Chevy Chevette. That wasn't as much a real car as it was an excuse to keep the auto worker's union employees busy for a minute or two. It later bit the dust by ramming head-on into a deer at 60mph (its top speed). Luckily for me, I had just sold it used for $300 to an employee. He survived the accident, but just barely. That guy is now my boss, and I get reminded of the killer car every now and then.
My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
And the wet. I spun a 325 on a freshly rain sprinkled on-ramp and freeway one day, late for a friend's wedding. Terrifying, luckily no impact.
This is what i dont understand. Why has the car got anything to do with this ? Surely its the tyres/shockies/road surface/temp/driver etc that are at fault here.....why would a 325 be so bad at it & GM/Ford be better ?
This is what i dont understand. Why has the car got anything to do with this ? Surely its the tyres/shockies/road surface/temp/driver etc that are at fault here.....why would a 325 be so bad at it & GM/Ford be better ?
Because it is light, and the s models have a LS diff, mix that with good engine response and loads of tourque and if you don't know how to drive it you'll turn it around easy.
Because it is light, and the s models have a LS diff, mix that with good engine response and loads of tourque and if you don't know how to drive it you'll turn it around easy.
James.
Thankyou...thus its the driver & not the car.
I have two 1100cc motorcycles & they can get awfully out of shape with the inability to read basic feedback given by the eyes.
Worst handling car I ever owned was the 318i. That thing could go into a spontaneous drift if I was driving it on a road of 400 grit sandpaper.
Third worst handling car I ever had was the 325es. The sport-tuned suspension helped it eclipse the 318 by some margin, but it was still a bit front heavy and twitchy. Loved all its other virtues though ('xcept the lease payments).
Second worst handling car was the Chevy Chevette. That wasn't as much a real car as it was an excuse to keep the auto worker's union employees busy for a minute or two. It later bit the dust by ramming head-on into a deer at 60mph (its top speed). Luckily for me, I had just sold it used for $300 to an employee. He survived the accident, but just barely. That guy is now my boss, and I get reminded of the killer car every now and then.
Hmm I'd have to dissagree with you. For the money, e30's have an outstanding reputation to be great handlers. If these are the worst handling cars you've driven, what are the best? back yourself up man
Hmm I'd have to dissagree with you. For the money, e30's have an outstanding reputation to be great handlers. If these are the worst handling cars you've driven, what are the best? back yourself up man
Are you really taking David seriously? Come on! His top 3 worst list has 2 bmw's and... wait for it... a Chevette!!!
Everyone's entitled to their personal opinion, but let me assure you, there's a reason I did a fair portion of Ford's competitive benchmarking (for the class I was working in) on BMW's. I was a vehicle dynamics engineer, so that means: ride, steering, handling, braking. It was basically a given among dynamics guys that the Bavarians knew their stuff in this realm. Chalk it up to something in the water, or beer over there, but even with geometry and design that aren't revolutionary, something in the subtleties of BMW tuning makes them a real pleasure to drive.
I disagree, vastly. You need to spend more time in e36's and e46's. While they grew just a bit, tad heavier, yes, its a much more refined and sorted car. The handling improved, despite of the weight, and the drivetrain, oh the drivetrain. The gearbox also puts the e30 to shame.
I for one don't subscribe to that "they don't build 'em like they used to" attitude. Especially as an engineer who's worked with a few BMW engineers in the past. Kind of insulting that you're telling us we've gone backwards since the e30. Ouch.
Do I love the e30 m3's and autox'd versions of them? Yes. If we're not talking money, just pure technical excellence and dynamics, would I take an e30 over any of the later gens as a road car? Not in a million years.
Have you driven an e90? The new 325 is an incredibly sorted, powerful, agile, and gorgeous car.
Are you really taking David seriously? Come on! His top 3 worst list has 2 bmw's and... wait for it... a Chevette!!!
Everyone's entitled to their personal opinion, but let me assure you, there's a reason I did a fair portion of Ford's competitive benchmarking (for the class I was working in) on BMW's. I was a vehicle dynamics engineer, so that means: ride, steering, handling, braking. It was basically a given among dynamics guys that the Bavarians knew their stuff in this realm. Chalk it up to something in the water, or beer over there, but even with geometry and design that aren't revolutionary, something in the subtleties of BMW tuning makes them a real pleasure to drive.
It's not just the bavarians. The sad fact is that while most of the world has tried to develope better handling, faster, more fuel efficient cars, the big 3 have simply produce lazy, slugish, soft vehicles. But then again it also reflects a majority of our lazy, slugish, soft citizens. If you want a car thats fun to drive, and can really be driven, you are left with maybe 4 or 5 domestic models that are rather expensive, or you have to buy a import.
I disagree, vastly. You need to spend more time in e36's and e46's. While they grew just a bit, tad heavier, yes, its a much more refined and sorted car. The handling improved, despite of the weight, and the drivetrain, oh the drivetrain. The gearbox also puts the e30 to shame.
I for one don't subscribe to that "they don't build 'em like they used to" attitude. Especially as an engineer who's worked with a few BMW engineers in the past. Kind of insulting that you're telling us we've gone backwards since the e30. Ouch.
Do I love the e30 m3's and autox'd versions of them? Yes. If we're not talking money, just pure technical excellence and dynamics, would I take an e30 over any of the later gens as a road car? Not in a million years.
Have you driven an e90? The new 325 is an incredibly sorted, powerful, agile, and gorgeous car.
But again, to each his own.
At least my shock towers and floor won't rip in half (e46). The cars are just starting to look like every other car on the road
would I take an e30 over an e36? Heck yes. Would I take an e30 over an e46/e90 (especially 330ci)? heck no. The e36 just looks like a piece of garbage and don't even get me started on how the m3 is watered down from the european version.
The cars are just starting to look like every other car on the road.
You mean how every Acura and everything else wants so badly to look like a 3-series? Yeah, you're right on that one. So then please explain why the same people who share your viewpoint about "ubiquitous looks" jumped on Chris Bangle when he tried to change direction a bit, to make BMW unique and new???
And yes, your graphs are horrible. If you were in my undergrad engineering lab, you'd be clapping erasers together. Your damn axes aren't even labeled! that could be log-log for all we know!
And yes, your graphs are horrible. If you were in my undergrad engineering lab, you'd be clapping erasers together. Your damn axes aren't even labeled! that could be log-log for all we know!
You mean how every Acura and everything else wants so badly to look like a 3-series? Yeah, you're right on that one. So then please explain why the same people who share your viewpoint about "ubiquitous looks" jumped on Chris Bangle when he tried to change direction a bit, to make BMW unique and new???
Nah I just think that way of the e36/e46. I have no opinion on the new generation BMW's
And yes, your graphs are horrible. If you were in my undergrad engineering lab, you'd be clapping erasers together. Your damn axes aren't even labeled! that could be log-log for all we know!
I should have said "unpredictable" in their handling, since the weight distribution was skewed highly towards the front of the car. Got used to it later, but the bimmers didn't handle well in snowy or icy situations - period.
Hmm I'd have to dissagree with you. For the money, e30's have an outstanding reputation to be great handlers. If these are the worst handling cars you've driven, what are the best? back yourself up man
...but yet, I never wrecked any of my bimmers by wrapping them around trees, etc.
My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
I should have said "unpredictable" in their handling, since the weight distribution was skewed highly towards the front of the car. Got used to it later, but the bimmers didn't handle well in snowy or icy situations - period.
you still didn't say what the better handling cars were
I should have said "unpredictable" in their handling, since the weight distribution was skewed highly towards the front of the car. Got used to it later, but the bimmers didn't handle well in snowy or icy situations - period.
...but yet, I never wrecked any of my bimmers by wrapping them around trees, etc.
Spang!!!!!!!!
David, permission to take the gloves off with my boy. This is fun
David, permission to take the gloves off with my boy. This is fun
Permission granted Andy (like you need my permission). But I would have thought the gloves had come off by now anyway. How many cars does it take before a bicycle is suggested by his auto insurance company?
Oh, and note to andysson, I would tell you what the better handling car was, but then you'd only want to rush out and spend your old man's money on one of those too. Some things just shouldn't be known at your young and impressionable age. Like daddy said "get top grades and chase girls." Amen to that!
(how as that, Andy? am I doing good?)
My Smugmug
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
Comments
I was behind one of these at a red light, on my bike. I tried to keep up as it accelerated away. I was dismayed that it pulled away from me. A GS is pokey for a bike, but can dust most cars. Not this one.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
More fun than a GS. You bet yer arse.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Third worst handling car I ever had was the 325es. The sport-tuned suspension helped it eclipse the 318 by some margin, but it was still a bit front heavy and twitchy. Loved all its other virtues though ('xcept the lease payments).
Second worst handling car was the Chevy Chevette. That wasn't as much a real car as it was an excuse to keep the auto worker's union employees busy for a minute or two. It later bit the dust by ramming head-on into a deer at 60mph (its top speed). Luckily for me, I had just sold it used for $300 to an employee. He survived the accident, but just barely. That guy is now my boss, and I get reminded of the killer car every now and then.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
This is what i dont understand. Why has the car got anything to do with this ? Surely its the tyres/shockies/road surface/temp/driver etc that are at fault here.....why would a 325 be so bad at it & GM/Ford be better ?
Not to mention the connection to 4 digit per month car insurance.
James.
http://www.jamesjweg.com
Because it is light, and the s models have a LS diff, mix that with good engine response and loads of tourque and if you don't know how to drive it you'll turn it around easy.
James.
http://www.jamesjweg.com
I have two 1100cc motorcycles & they can get awfully out of shape with the inability to read basic feedback given by the eyes.
Hmm I'd have to dissagree with you. For the money, e30's have an outstanding reputation to be great handlers. If these are the worst handling cars you've driven, what are the best? back yourself up man
Everyone's entitled to their personal opinion, but let me assure you, there's a reason I did a fair portion of Ford's competitive benchmarking (for the class I was working in) on BMW's. I was a vehicle dynamics engineer, so that means: ride, steering, handling, braking. It was basically a given among dynamics guys that the Bavarians knew their stuff in this realm. Chalk it up to something in the water, or beer over there, but even with geometry and design that aren't revolutionary, something in the subtleties of BMW tuning makes them a real pleasure to drive.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
discuss
I for one don't subscribe to that "they don't build 'em like they used to" attitude. Especially as an engineer who's worked with a few BMW engineers in the past. Kind of insulting that you're telling us we've gone backwards since the e30. Ouch.
Do I love the e30 m3's and autox'd versions of them? Yes. If we're not talking money, just pure technical excellence and dynamics, would I take an e30 over any of the later gens as a road car? Not in a million years.
Have you driven an e90? The new 325 is an incredibly sorted, powerful, agile, and gorgeous car.
But again, to each his own.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
It's not just the bavarians. The sad fact is that while most of the world has tried to develope better handling, faster, more fuel efficient cars, the big 3 have simply produce lazy, slugish, soft vehicles. But then again it also reflects a majority of our lazy, slugish, soft citizens. If you want a car thats fun to drive, and can really be driven, you are left with maybe 4 or 5 domestic models that are rather expensive, or you have to buy a import.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Doc! HE NEEDS TO SPEND MORE TIME ON HIS COLLEGE STUDIES!!!
PS: Have you EVER seen such a lame graph? Can you believe this kid is at RPI?
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At least my shock towers and floor won't rip in half (e46). The cars are just starting to look like every other car on the road
would I take an e30 over an e36? Heck yes. Would I take an e30 over an e46/e90 (especially 330ci)? heck no. The e36 just looks like a piece of garbage and don't even get me started on how the m3 is watered down from the european version.
And yes, your graphs are horrible. If you were in my undergrad engineering lab, you'd be clapping erasers together. Your damn axes aren't even labeled! that could be log-log for all we know!
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
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Nah I just think that way of the e36/e46. I have no opinion on the new generation BMW's
Typical excuses!
You take after your Uncle David. I think maybe we should start calling you "Crash"
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e-thug
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haha nah I was just stirring up some trouble
...but yet, I never wrecked any of my bimmers by wrapping them around trees, etc.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
you still didn't say what the better handling cars were
Spang!!!!!!!!
David, permission to take the gloves off with my boy. This is fun
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Permission granted Andy (like you need my permission). But I would have thought the gloves had come off by now anyway. How many cars does it take before a bicycle is suggested by his auto insurance company?
Oh, and note to andysson, I would tell you what the better handling car was, but then you'd only want to rush out and spend your old man's money on one of those too. Some things just shouldn't be known at your young and impressionable age. Like daddy said "get top grades and chase girls." Amen to that!
(how as that, Andy? am I doing good?)
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky