And Killing a person who insult Prophet of God who ever (Moses Jesus,Muhammad etc) is justified becouse he has insulted God who have chosen those Prophets among all people of the world(Muslim Believe Moses and Jesus are Prophet not offending any bro here just for knowlege)
could you make this a little easier to understand.
is this what you believe or is this quote part of the long running dialogue that it was taken from and part of the feeling you are trying to describe with certain people.
are you saying that killing someone who insults god or his prophets is justified?
could you make this a little easier to understand.
is this what you believe or is this quote part of the long running dialogue that it was taken from and part of the feeling you are trying to describe with certain people.
are you saying that killing someone who insults god or his prophets is justified?
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
So you'll only kill the cartoonists, and also anyone who insults your parents. Thank God you will spare the innocent! We wouldn't want anyone to suffer "outrage" after all! It's well known that being offended is, after all, just as bad as being killed. Clear moral equality there.
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
I'm really trying to put aside my own opinions, and ask this as an academic question: who is "we"? Are you speaking for all Muslims? Or is their a particular Pakistani sect that considers killing "offenders" ok? I know, for one, that the Muslim student who sits next to me in the lab disagrees with your sentiment.
I'm really trying to put aside my own opinions, and ask this as an academic question: who is "we"? Are you speaking for all Muslims? Or is their a particular Pakistani sect that considers killing "offenders" ok? I know, for one, that the Muslim student who sits next to me in the lab disagrees with your sentiment.
kind of paints his pictures in a little different light don't it?
kind of paints his pictures in a little different light don't it?
not exactly an unbiased photo journalist.
This is true as well, I hadn't stopped to think about that yet. I'm still trying to piece together Awais' posts and make sense of them.
I thought he started off very calm and cool about it, but the posts are getting more and more cryptic, indicative to me of some real passion. I'm just trying to understand it.
I'd like to see some shots of some of the kids mentioned here. The one's that don't go to the Koranic school and the demo's.
Special tip:- Take the lens cap off.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — "Shurmahmad and Nurahmad, bright-eyed boys with smiles that beam from faces covered with grime and sores, have already been full-time members of Pakistan's labor force for 2 years.
The brothers, ages 14 and 9, join eight siblings and hundreds of other barefoot children who scavenge each day in a vast expanse of dust where the capital's main food market is located. They are part of a scene repeated almost everywhere in Pakistan, which is an economic basket case and a truant officer's nightmare."
Try not to feel too much outrage at the conditions you find your fellow countrymen, women and children in as you photograph them. I will feel the outrage for you when you post your pic's.
"The important thing is to just take the picture with the lens you have when the picture happens." Jerry Lodriguss - Sports Photographer
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
OK Awais. I thought you were referring to what was said during the protests and rallies.
You will kill someone who has offended someone dear to you!!??
Kill <--> offended
how does that stack up?
Sorry, Awais. But your a fanatic if you really think that.
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
Awais, I think we do need further discussion about this. Do you really mean this? If someone offends your parents you will kill them?
Ric, excuse me but in 2years, Awais has posted such photos with no such commentary. He asked me via PM if these photos would be appropriate for Dgrin, and based on past history of knowing Awais, I said sure. Now, it's turning into a big mess, and we don't need that here. There are plenty of boards on the internet to discuss politics, religion, and such. Here, on Dgrin, we discuss the photos and the emotions they evoke. It's a slippery slope, sure - but there ARE ways to discuss the photos, the PJ, etc without getting into personal beliefs etc. Nothing wrong with Awais' personal beliefs, Merc's, Bod's, Harry's, Flug's or yours! But we don't, as a rule, get into all of that here on Dgrin.
Ric, excuse me but in 2years, Awais has posted such photos with no such commentary. He asked me via PM if these photos would be appropriate for Dgrin, and based on past history of knowing Awais, I said sure. Now, it's turning into a big mess, and we don't need that here. There are plenty of boards on the internet to discuss politics, religion, and such. Here, on Dgrin, we discuss the photos and the emotions they evoke. It's a slippery slope, sure - but there ARE ways to discuss the photos, the PJ, etc without getting into personal beliefs etc. Nothing wrong with Awais' personal beliefs, Merc's, Bod's, Harry's, Flug's or yours! But we don't, as a rule, get into all of that here on Dgrin.
Actually I agree with you.
You have the means to defuse this right now...please.
I want Awais on this forum because his posts will give me insight that I would not have otherwise.
I think we're starting to see how "peaceful" he really is... Hypocrisy alarms are blazing strong.
Hypocrisy nah. While I disagree with his viewpoint its interesting to hear it expressed.
He seems to be saying that from his Muslim point of view it is permissable to kill someone who offends your parents and your god but only that person. He is also saying that only that person should be killed and not innocent bystanders.
Now we all react with alarm and dismay to this rather stringent pov. We will then go off and pay homage to our national heros on our national holidays who have killed millions in the name of patriotism, national defense, liberty. national honor, etc, etc.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I've been reading this whole discussion, lately with some trepidation, and enjoyed viewing the pictures. I really feel I learned something about Islam and why so many people feel upset about these images.
I really think it benefits a free society to see more than our own viewpoint (whether we agree or disagree). And I really hope this does not dissuade Awais from posting again (or being prohibited from doing so).
Let us remember that it was NOTAwais who turned this into a political thread, He did not post his feelings until many others refused to take thier politics elsewhere. While we might want to know his viewpoint on the subject it should not affect his posting of this type of photos as he DID NOT post his politics with them.
Hypocrisy nah. While I disagree with his viewpoint its interesting to hear it expressed.
He seems to be saying that from his Muslim point of view it is permissable to kill someone who offends your parents and your god but only that person. He is also saying that only that person should be killed and not innocent bystanders.
Now we all react with alarm and dismay to this rather stringent pov. We will then go off and pay homage to our national heros on our national holidays who have killed millions in the name of patriotism, national defense, liberty. national honor, etc, etc.
We know this firsthand, Harry.
Sad...but true.
I can remember the hatred in the eyes of the Vietnamese. They had a reason....and I understand it.
I've been reading this whole discussion, lately with some trepidation, and enjoyed viewing the pictures. I really feel I learned something about Islam and why so many people feel upset about these images.
I really think it benefits a free society to see more than our own viewpoint (whether we agree or disagree). And I really hope this does not dissuade Awais from posting again (or being prohibited from doing so).
Feeling upset: OK. That is everyone's right.
Really meaning it when you say you can kill someone if he/she offended you or someone dear to you: Not OK.
There is a saying here in Ireland that you don't discuss politics or religion in a pub. As a country which has suffered from atrocities committed for sectarian / political reasons it is a good rule of thumb. Perhaps this rule should also apply to Dgrin?
Feeling upset: OK. That is everyone's right.
Really meaning it when you say you can kill someone if he/she offended you or someone dear to you: Not OK.
I am hoping (praying?) that Awais is either 1) being sarcastic in response to all the vitriol flowing, or 2) being misinterpreted because English is his second language or 3) some other explanation.
The (few) Muslims I have known would not kill someone over a mere insult.
Freedome of speech
Well i was looking what will people react on my freedome of speech
We live in Totaly opposite cultures and societies all people have different mentality in the world so sending me Billion emails per day against Muhammad shows people lack to respect others and now with freedome of speech issue they got Passport to insult others muslims included
Talking about my view point "God can teach the person who offend him or his Prophet better then me" (He said that in Quran)
I dont like to take anyones life
I posted pictures of all things going around in our culture i just like to share and see other's culture i thought this was good to share with others but in other forum when asked permission to post pictures with only picture showing invitation to protest people neglected what i asked i asked should i post pics of protest or not but they were wise and streched whole post to religion
And i say again to them these protests are and not should be againstsome religion my christen friends also attend those protests and they feel also offended when Jesus cartoons are published
It was not me who streched this thred to anywhere
i hope you understand
If some people cannot take Photos of protest then tell me i wont post them on the forum i posted with a view to get comments about photos my camera is USELESS if i only post pictures of sunset or flower Protest is real thing to shoot these days
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
Keep on posting your pics. They usually disturb me but they do inform. They will always kick up a storm but thats ok.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Freedome of speech
Well i was looking what will people react on my freedome of speech
We live in Totaly opposite cultures and societies all people have different mentality in the world so sending me Billion emails per day against Muhammad shows people lack to respect others and now with freedome of speech issue they got Passport to insult others muslims included
Talking about my view point "God can teach the person who offend him or his Prophet better then me" (He said that in Quran)
I dont like to take anyones life
I posted pictures of all things going around in our culture i just like to share and see other's culture i thought this was good to share with others but in other forum when asked permission to post pictures with only picture showing invitation to protest people neglected what i asked i asked should i post pics of protest or not but they were wise and streched whole post to religion
And i say again to them these protests are and not should be againstsome religion my christen friends also attend those protests and they feel also offended when Jesus cartoons are published
It was not me who streched this thred to anywhere
i hope you understand
If some people cannot take Photos of protest then tell me i wont post them on the forum i posted with a view to get comments about photos my camera is USELESS if i only post pictures of sunset or flower Protest is real thing to shoot these days
No Awais. Keep posting those pictures! The more the better!
But i and others were just commenting on your comment that it's ok to kill someone if he/she has offended you or someone dear to you. I'm still not sure if you mean that, if it is your personal belief? Or is it what the people in the protest said?
I can remember the hatred in the eyes of the Vietnamese. They had a reason....and I understand it.
That we do Ric. :cry
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
and what about these kind of emails "I too have studied the religions and can tell you that Muhammad was a mountebank and Allah a figment of his deranged imagination. The Koran is the incoherent ramblings of a madman." I received this emal when i mentioned in the forum i am a muslim :cry <o:p>have a look what i typed i wonder if anybody have read it </o:p> <o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17148531</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17186707</o:p> <o:p>Some spammers but may God show them right path <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p> <o:p>People cannot take photos which are reality why they admire painting ?<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p> <o:p>No i dont want to kill anybody and can not want to be killed by anybody there is were i support suicide bombs and thats not just muslims JAPS also do that and every warrior should be brave enouph to do that and definatily i wont support a war which Americans also dont support </o:p> <o:p>and killing that person means the extent of hate against him </o:p> <o:p>And </o:p> <o:p>What you see is real - but only on the particular level to which you've developed your sense of seeing. You can expand your reality by developing new ways of perceiving. -Wynn Bullock</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
and what about these kind of emails "I too have studied the religions and can tell you that Muhammad was a mountebank and Allah a figment of his deranged imagination. The Koran is the incoherent ramblings of a madman." I received this emal when i mentioned in the forum i am a muslim :cry <?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p>have a look what i typed i wonder if anybody have read it</o:p> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17148531</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17186707</o:p> <o:p>Some spammers but may God show them right path <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p> <o:p>People cannot take photos which are reality why they admire painting ?<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p> <o:p>No i dont want to kill anybody and can not want to be killed by anybody there is were i support suicide bombs and thats not just muslims JAPS also do that and every warrior should be brave enouph to do that and definatily i wont support a war which Americans also dont support </o:p> <o:p>and killing that person means the extent of hate against him </o:p> <o:p>And </o:p> <o:p>What you see is real - but only on the particular level to which you've developed your sense of seeing. You can expand your reality by developing new ways of perceiving. -Wynn Bullock</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
OK, Awais. I see i misunderstood your earlier post i was commenting about. Your english is not a 100% and the confusion comes from that, i think. My excuses.
But for future posts of your pictures, make clear the distinction between
- your opinions/thoughts and
- quotes/slogans from the people you photograph.
Doing this will make you a better photojournalist.
The confusion about this caused this thread to explode (and probably also the dpreview thread).
Comments
could you make this a little easier to understand.
is this what you believe or is this quote part of the long running dialogue that it was taken from and part of the feeling you are trying to describe with certain people.
are you saying that killing someone who insults god or his prophets is justified?
Yes thats what we think Killing one guy of that kind can save many people who are suffuring and will suffur from outrage
i will surely kill a person who offend my parents and God and Muhammad PBUH is above all but i will only kill who offended not others .
Thanks but i think no furthur discussion about that is good
My Gallery
So you'll only kill the cartoonists, and also anyone who insults your parents. Thank God you will spare the innocent! We wouldn't want anyone to suffer "outrage" after all! It's well known that being offended is, after all, just as bad as being killed. Clear moral equality there.
What about the following insults to religion?:
Tunisian Film Maker Chokri Ben Chika's Latest Project
Do I get to kill him, or will any Tunisian suffice? Perhaps I should just burn down the Tunisian consulate? Please advise.
Wouldn't it better to react like this?
thank you! I know all I need to know about you.
our Islamic friend has made his point quite clear.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
kind of paints his pictures in a little different light don't it?
not exactly an unbiased photo journalist.
I thought he started off very calm and cool about it, but the posts are getting more and more cryptic, indicative to me of some real passion. I'm just trying to understand it.
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
I'd like to see some shots of some of the kids mentioned here. The one's that don't go to the Koranic school and the demo's.
Special tip:- Take the lens cap off.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — "Shurmahmad and Nurahmad, bright-eyed boys with smiles that beam from faces covered with grime and sores, have already been full-time members of Pakistan's labor force for 2 years.
The brothers, ages 14 and 9, join eight siblings and hundreds of other barefoot children who scavenge each day in a vast expanse of dust where the capital's main food market is located. They are part of a scene repeated almost everywhere in Pakistan, which is an economic basket case and a truant officer's nightmare."
Try not to feel too much outrage at the conditions you find your fellow countrymen, women and children in as you photograph them. I will feel the outrage for you when you post your pic's.
Jerry Lodriguss - Sports Photographer
Reporters sans frontières
I will not make any statement about the cause of these protests or the protest itself......because I lack total understanding.
Your photos may help me understand. Keep posting them. Good work!:D
OK Awais. I thought you were referring to what was said during the protests and rallies.
You will kill someone who has offended someone dear to you!!??
Kill <--> offended
how does that stack up?
Sorry, Awais. But your a fanatic if you really think that.
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
Awais, I think we do need further discussion about this. Do you really mean this? If someone offends your parents you will kill them?
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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Not wise.
Ric, excuse me but in 2years, Awais has posted such photos with no such commentary. He asked me via PM if these photos would be appropriate for Dgrin, and based on past history of knowing Awais, I said sure. Now, it's turning into a big mess, and we don't need that here. There are plenty of boards on the internet to discuss politics, religion, and such. Here, on Dgrin, we discuss the photos and the emotions they evoke. It's a slippery slope, sure - but there ARE ways to discuss the photos, the PJ, etc without getting into personal beliefs etc. Nothing wrong with Awais' personal beliefs, Merc's, Bod's, Harry's, Flug's or yours! But we don't, as a rule, get into all of that here on Dgrin.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Actually I agree with you.
You have the means to defuse this right now...please.
I want Awais on this forum because his posts will give me insight that I would not have otherwise.
Hypocrisy nah. While I disagree with his viewpoint its interesting to hear it expressed.
He seems to be saying that from his Muslim point of view it is permissable to kill someone who offends your parents and your god but only that person. He is also saying that only that person should be killed and not innocent bystanders.
Now we all react with alarm and dismay to this rather stringent pov. We will then go off and pay homage to our national heros on our national holidays who have killed millions in the name of patriotism, national defense, liberty. national honor, etc, etc.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I really think it benefits a free society to see more than our own viewpoint (whether we agree or disagree). And I really hope this does not dissuade Awais from posting again (or being prohibited from doing so).
James.
http://www.jamesjweg.com
We know this firsthand, Harry.
Sad...but true.
I can remember the hatred in the eyes of the Vietnamese. They had a reason....and I understand it.
Feeling upset: OK. That is everyone's right.
Really meaning it when you say you can kill someone if he/she offended you or someone dear to you: Not OK.
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
I am hoping (praying?) that Awais is either 1) being sarcastic in response to all the vitriol flowing, or 2) being misinterpreted because English is his second language or 3) some other explanation.
The (few) Muslims I have known would not kill someone over a mere insult.
Well i was looking what will people react on my freedome of speech
We live in Totaly opposite cultures and societies all people have different mentality in the world so sending me Billion emails per day against Muhammad shows people lack to respect others and now with freedome of speech issue they got Passport to insult others muslims included
Talking about my view point "God can teach the person who offend him or his Prophet better then me" (He said that in Quran)
I dont like to take anyones life
I posted pictures of all things going around in our culture i just like to share and see other's culture i thought this was good to share with others but in other forum when asked permission to post pictures with only picture showing invitation to protest people neglected what i asked i asked should i post pics of protest or not but they were wise and streched whole post to religion
And i say again to them these protests are and not should be againstsome religion my christen friends also attend those protests and they feel also offended when Jesus cartoons are published
It was not me who streched this thred to anywhere
i hope you understand
If some people cannot take Photos of protest then tell me i wont post them on the forum i posted with a view to get comments about photos my camera is USELESS if i only post pictures of sunset or flower Protest is real thing to shoot these days
My Gallery
Keep on posting your pics. They usually disturb me but they do inform. They will always kick up a storm but thats ok.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
No Awais. Keep posting those pictures! The more the better!
But i and others were just commenting on your comment that it's ok to kill someone if he/she has offended you or someone dear to you. I'm still not sure if you mean that, if it is your personal belief? Or is it what the people in the protest said?
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
That we do Ric. :cry
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
"I too have studied the religions and can tell you that Muhammad was a mountebank and Allah a figment of his deranged imagination. The Koran is the incoherent ramblings of a madman."
I received this emal when i mentioned in the forum i am a muslim :cry
<o:p>have a look what i typed i wonder if anybody have read it </o:p>
<o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17148531</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=17186707</o:p>
<o:p>Some spammers but may God show them right path <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p>
<o:p>People cannot take photos which are reality why they admire painting ?<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" > </o:p>
<o:p>No i dont want to kill anybody and can not want to be killed by anybody there is were i support suicide bombs and thats not just muslims JAPS also do that and every warrior should be brave enouph to do that and definatily i wont support a war which Americans also dont support </o:p>
<o:p>and killing that person means the extent of hate against him </o:p>
<o:p>And </o:p>
<o:p>What you see is real - but only on the particular level to which
you've developed your sense of seeing. You can expand your reality
by developing new ways of perceiving. -Wynn Bullock</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My Gallery
OK, Awais. I see i misunderstood your earlier post i was commenting about. Your english is not a 100% and the confusion comes from that, i think. My excuses.
But for future posts of your pictures, make clear the distinction between
- your opinions/thoughts and
- quotes/slogans from the people you photograph.
Doing this will make you a better photojournalist.
The confusion about this caused this thread to explode (and probably also the dpreview thread).
When I hear the earth will melt into the sun,
in two billion years,
all I can think is:
"Will that be on a Monday?"
==========================
http://www.streetsofboston.com
http://blog.antonspaans.com
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]