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Backpacking and photography

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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 8, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    yeah... i just don't want my camera to attract any bears since i'm almost positive i've probably gotten food on is at some point. or sugar. or something that would appease a bear. but maybe a ziplock bag would eliminate the odorne_nau.gif

    One "trick" that works pretty well for raccoons, dogs and cats, is to use an actual pepper-mill to fresh grind some black pepper and sprinkle it around the camp, especially near the food provisions. That smell is fairly strong to most animals, but not so much to people. (Sometimes you can hear the 'coons "sneezing" in the night.)

    The commercial previous-ground pepper isn't odoriferous enough to work. It has to be fresh ground.

    Never tried it on bears, and I don't think I'd recommend it either.

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 8, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    yeah... i just don't want my camera to attract any bears since i'm almost positive i've probably gotten food on is at some point. or sugar. or something that would appease a bear. but maybe a ziplock bag would eliminate the odorne_nau.gif

    The plastics used in regular ziplocks allow some odor to permeate. Freezer type ziplocks seem to work much better, but not the ones with the plastic "zipper". Try it yourself with sliced onion.

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 8, 2006
    R Johns wrote:
    Wow! Might want to stay home and use a webcam...

    Seriously, I haven't had heart trouble, but my back is in pretty bad shape, and I've some other health concerns that keep me from straying too far from home, as well. I definetly understand your concern. It's amazing how much 10-15lbs can feel like, after a few miles.

    My suggestion might balk a few people, but in your case, a digicam like the Fuji S9000 might serve you very well. It's light, has a 28mm to 300mm zoom range, and accepts filters. Also, DXO just added the camera to its line-up of supported digicams (meaning you need not worry about lens distortion, CA and fringing)

    I say keep it light, but definetly go for it!

    Take care and good luck...

    Russ

    Russ,

    When I do a one to three day trip with the Scouts, I usually take my Minolta A2. It has IS and works pretty well in low-light, although I sometimes have to manual focus.

    I'm not sure that I could trust it for an extended outing.

    I also have an old film 35mm rangefinder, that is manual everything and no batteries. I have used that in some pretty wierd circumstances, and I know it'll probably work just about anywhere in anything. I only have a 50mm lens for it, although it can use interchangeable lenses.

    I'm wondering if something like that might be more preferable for an 11 day outing like Daniel's? Maybe less is more?

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    photodougphotodoug Registered Users Posts: 870 Major grins
    edited April 9, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    i've got a monopod, but my biggest thing is what should i take... and should i even take my camera?ne_nau.gif i really wanna take it, i think i could get some sweet photos. but at what risk? it'll be 67 miles in 11 days, where am i gonna put it? the monopod can work as a walking stick, i supposed i could just leave my camear there, or keep it slung around my neck. but then should i take any spare lenses? or just buy a 17-40 and keep it on there with a protective filter. i'll probably buy a couple more batteries to keep. so i'll end up just having the camera, 17-40, and about 5 batteries. ne_nau.gif i have yet to go out and buy all of my camping gear i'll need. so i guess i'll be able to figure weight into the equation once i get my stuff, and then i'll decide if i have enough room even to take it. plastic bags will be a must to keep my stuff in when not using it to fend off water. and i'll be sure to get a bag that has a rain-fly.

    this will be my first major hiking/camping trip. am i missing anything? oh yeah, and we can't tie anything to the trees or else we get fined i think 200 dollars. but we have to hang bear-bags, which i guarrantee my camera will be in every night. about 4 years ago we had a kid that had cheetos in his tent and a bear came up in the night and gave him a couple swipes across the face/behind the ear.:uhoh i think it came to 140 stitches.
    Consider sharing a tent with a buddy: that'll cut your tent weight by 1/2. Bring a good rain poncho and use it as your tarp under your tent at night...saving you the weight of a separate tarp. Small camping pillow is worth it's weight and more. Inflatable, expensive sleeping pad is probably worth it too. A bad night's sleep is just not worth it. External frame pack only. No bungie cords, nothing strapped to and hanging from the outside of your pack. Everything needs to be tight and secure. A bouncing or floppy load isn't comfortable.

    No food near your sleeping area, ever. Cooking/eating area far from your tent also. Washing and all other things far from your tent also. Just keep all the scents away from your tent area. Chapstick. Bug spray. Floppy brimmed hat. Sunglasses and sunscreen. Emergency mirror. Whistle.

    Take my advice, if you don't take a camera you'll regret it for a long time. Memories rock though, so don't spend too much time taking shots. Take this time to be in the moment and have fun with your hiking buddies.

    oh yea, don't forget toilet paper. baby wipes are an excellent treat also!!thumb.gif
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 9, 2006
    Here's the link to a world traveller and photographer, Martin Wierzbicki. He has some interesting shots, but he talkes about his equipment:

    http://photosbymartin.com/faq.htm

    Nice shots here:

    http://photosbymartin.com/north_america/california_ansel_adams_wilderness_hiking_pictures.htm

    Of couse, Ansel Adams didn't do anything very compact, and he travelled the High Sierras. Then again, he had a different agenda.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    BigAlBigAl Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited April 9, 2006
    Ziggy, when I still hiked (film slr days), I built a harness which clipped onto the straps of my backpack, which in turn clipped on to my camera bag. With this, I could get to any lens, film etc without taking off my backpack. A disadvantage of this of course, was on difficult climbs when the camera bag had to be put in the backpack.
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 9, 2006
    photodoug wrote:
    Consider sharing a tent with a buddy: that'll cut your tent weight by 1/2. Bring a good rain poncho and use it as your tarp under your tent at night...saving you the weight of a separate tarp. Small camping pillow is worth it's weight and more. Inflatable, expensive sleeping pad is probably worth it too. A bad night's sleep is just not worth it. External frame pack only. No bungie cords, nothing strapped to and hanging from the outside of your pack. Everything needs to be tight and secure. A bouncing or floppy load isn't comfortable.

    No food near your sleeping area, ever. Cooking/eating area far from your tent also. Washing and all other things far from your tent also. Just keep all the scents away from your tent area. Chapstick. Bug spray. Floppy brimmed hat. Sunglasses and sunscreen. Emergency mirror. Whistle.

    Take my advice, if you don't take a camera you'll regret it for a long time. Memories rock though, so don't spend too much time taking shots. Take this time to be in the moment and have fun with your hiking buddies.

    oh yea, don't forget toilet paper. baby wipes are an excellent treat also!!thumb.gif

    Doug,

    Great ideas. Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 9, 2006
    BigAl wrote:
    Ziggy, when I still hiked (film slr days), I built a harness which clipped onto the straps of my backpack, which in turn clipped on to my camera bag. With this, I could get to any lens, film etc without taking off my backpack. A disadvantage of this of course, was on difficult climbs when the camera bag had to be put in the backpack.

    Thanks BigAl.

    There are all sorts of harnesses you can buy, of course. Like you, I'd rather improvise or DIY something, tailor made for my purpose.

    I'm having a tough time trying to visualize what you made. Can you describe a little differently how it worked?

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited April 10, 2006
    Seems like there is a lot of good advice here. I think number 1, 2, and 3 is a GOOD pair of boots! Number 4, and 5 is a GOOD pair of broken in boots. Number 6, and 7 are a couple of GOOD pairs of socks. Sometimes, one very thin pair and one thick pair.

    Take a few test hikes with ALL the gear you plan to take, and I mean ALL.

    OH yea, don't forget the mountain gold. :D

    Sam
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    photodougphotodoug Registered Users Posts: 870 Major grins
    edited April 10, 2006
    Sam wrote:
    Seems like there is a lot of good advice here. I think number 1, 2, and 3 is a GOOD pair of boots! Number 4, and 5 is a GOOD pair of broken in boots. Number 6, and 7 are a couple of GOOD pairs of socks. Sometimes, one very thin pair and one thick pair.

    Take a few test hikes with ALL the gear you plan to take, and I mean ALL.

    OH yea, don't forget the mountain gold. :D

    Sam

    oh yea! take a bit of moleskin along. poorman takes duct tape.
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    BigAlBigAl Registered Users Posts: 2,294 Major grins
    edited April 10, 2006
    ziggy53 wrote:
    I'm having a tough time trying to visualize what you made. Can you describe a little differently how it worked?
    I'll see if I can find a pic of me carrying it (unfortunately, one seldom has pics of oneself). It's not too easy to describe without a drawing, and I don't have the harness anymore either. I used a top-loading camera bag with the zip opening at my belly (to stop stuff falling out). The harness hooked onto the camera bag's shoulder strap loops and from there hooked onto loops on the front of my backpack shoulder straps. I also had a stabilizing strap from the harness around the camera bag which clipped onto the hip belt of the backpack. (The camera bag also made a very nice table top for my bineys).

    I carried a 500mm mirror lens and a 28-70mm zoom lens and a Kenko 2x macro converter with a Minolta X-700 body, which gave me a fairly wide spread in focal lengths at not too much cost in weight.
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 10, 2006
    Sam wrote:
    ... a couple of GOOD pairs of socks. Sometimes, one very thin pair and one thick pair.

    Sam,

    Very good advice. I always tell the Scouts to wear 2 pair when hiking, one thin nylon sock near the skin, and a thicker sock on top. The socks rub each other instead of your foot, and the incidence of blisters is much less. There is nothing like having to walk on blistered feet, 'tis true torture. (Wicking socks work better than plain nylon dress socks, but can cost much more.)

    Our Scouts walk the Lincoln Pilgrimage every year, and I think my son has walked 4 of them. 21 miles, 5 brief stops, 1 day. A hilly trail for about the first fifth of the way, hilly twisty roads for the rest. It's either hot or cool, and rainy or dry. A lot of Troops use it as a tuneup and test for Philmont and other trips. I see a few people that carry full backpacks the full distance.

    I usually run the "sag wagon" with the food and first aid stuff. I patrol the road portion and "volunteer" as needed, for our Troop and any others. Last year, Sue walked the first leg with the boys, and then we both walked a couple of "first-year" Scouts the last couple of miles to the end.

    Two pairs of socks made all the difference in the world.

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 10, 2006
    photodoug wrote:
    oh yea! take a bit of moleskin along. poorman takes duct tape.

    Duct tape and maleable wire and nylon cord are our friends! :D
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 10, 2006
    BigAl wrote:
    ... I carried a 500mm mirror lens and a 28-70mm zoom lens and a Kenko 2x macro converter with a Minolta X-700 body, which gave me a fairly wide spread in focal lengths at not too much cost in weight.

    Sounds like an interesting kit!

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited April 10, 2006
    One thing I thought of today, was I have a camera backpack, but when day hiking I normally carry the camera in my hand, but I also have a holster type camera bag clipped to the front of the backpack harness, so I f I need my hands free to climb all I need to do is slip it in the holster and sip it shut. Fast and easy. This might work for you on longer hikes where it would be too tiring to carry it your hand all day, or day after day.

    Sam
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 11, 2006
    Sam wrote:
    One thing I thought of today, was I have a camera backpack, but when day hiking I normally carry the camera in my hand, but I also have a holster type camera bag clipped to the front of the backpack harness, so I f I need my hands free to climb all I need to do is slip it in the holster and sip it shut. Fast and easy. This might work for you on longer hikes where it would be too tiring to carry it your hand all day, or day after day.

    Sam

    Sam,

    That sounds awfully interesting. Do you have a link to further information or purchase?

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited April 11, 2006
    ziggy53 wrote:
    Sam,

    That sounds awfully interesting. Do you have a link to further information or purchase?

    Thanks,

    ziggy53

    Ziggy,

    It's not really a purchased system. The holster style camera bag has round metal rings sewn into the bag for the neck / shoulder strap to hook into. You can leave the strap conected, or remove it. You just need 2 caribeaners (sp) (metal kidney shaped hooks with a spring loaded section to clip onto the ring). If you need it I can try to take a photo. Just let me know.

    Sam
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    JamokeJamoke Registered Users Posts: 257 Major grins
    edited April 11, 2006
    ziggy53 wrote:
    Here's the link to a world traveller and photographer, Martin Wierzbicki. He has some interesting shots, but he talkes about his equipment:

    Nice shots here:

    http://photosbymartin.com/north_america/california_ansel_adams_wilderness_hiking_pictures.htm

    Of couse, Ansel Adams didn't do anything very compact, and he travelled the High Sierras. Then again, he had a different agenda.

    Holy Crap!!! Seriously I was at Thousand Island lake when the bear visited us. There's pictures on that site. I've all but planned a trip back there looking for pictures of that area. - Thanks for the link.
    Mine: Canon 20D, 50 f1.8 II, 28-105 II, 70-200 f2.8L, T 70-300 Macro, T 2X expander, 12-24 Sigma
    Hers: Sony SR10, (Soon Canon 5D MKII), 85 f1.8, 28-135 USM, Stroboframe, Manfrotto NeoTec
    Ours: Pair of 580 EX, Lensbaby, Studio Alien Bees, Son & TWO Daughters
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 11, 2006
    Sam wrote:
    Ziggy,

    It's not really a purchased system. The holster style camera bag has round metal rings sewn into the bag for the neck / shoulder strap to hook into. You can leave the strap conected, or remove it. You just need 2 caribeaners (sp) (metal kidney shaped hooks with a spring loaded section to clip onto the ring). If you need it I can try to take a photo. Just let me know.

    Sam

    I have 2 camera holster bags, but all they have are a single belt loop on the back. It sounds like you have something better, at least better for this application.

    I'll have a look around.

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 11, 2006
    Jamoke wrote:
    Holy Crap!!! Seriously I was at Thousand Island lake when the bear visited us. There's pictures on that site. I've all but planned a trip back there looking for pictures of that area. - Thanks for the link.

    Sounds and looks like a great place to go, except for the bear stuff, that is. Keep us posted.

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    StevenVStevenV Registered Users Posts: 1,174 Major grins
    edited April 11, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    i'm going [to Philmont] in this June.mwink.gif me and Ziggy were debating stuff to take and i need advice... thus this thread.thumb.gif

    Have fun. I'm a Sea Base guy myself, though my older son loved Philmont.
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    arroyosharkarroyoshark Registered Users Posts: 191 Major grins
    edited April 12, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    i've got a monopod, but my biggest thing is what should i take... and should i even take my camera?ne_nau.gif i really wanna take it, i think i could get some sweet photos. but at what risk? it'll be 67 miles in 11 days, where am i gonna put it? the monopod can work as a walking stick, i supposed i could just leave my camear there, or keep it slung around my neck. but then should i take any spare lenses? or just buy a 17-40 and keep it on there with a protective filter. i'll probably buy a couple more batteries to keep. so i'll end up just having the camera, 17-40, and about 5 batteries. ne_nau.gif i have yet to go out and buy all of my camping gear i'll need. so i guess i'll be able to figure weight into the equation once i get my stuff, and then i'll decide if i have enough room even to take it. plastic bags will be a must to keep my stuff in when not using it to fend off water. and i'll be sure to get a bag that has a rain-fly.

    this will be my first major hiking/camping trip. am i missing anything? oh yeah, and we can't tie anything to the trees or else we get fined i think 200 dollars. but we have to hang bear-bags, which i guarrantee my camera will be in every night. about 4 years ago we had a kid that had cheetos in his tent and a bear came up in the night and gave him a couple swipes across the face/behind the ear.:uhoh i think it came to 140 stitches.


    Hi Daniel,

    I came here kind of late to the discussion, but....

    Guy, you are going to have some great adventure out here at Philmont. I went when I was 14, hiked it from north (Ponil) to south (hogback and fish camp). Could be a life-changing experience...it was for me (I moved to NM, have hunted elk in upper Ponil Canon). I didn't even have a 35mm slr back in the 1960's...I used a Kodak 126 format camera and shot slides. Still great memories....and slightly faded slides.

    As a young fellow, I know you don't have a lot of budget for alternate cameras, so be it. One thing to remember, tho, and I'm sure your leaders must be prepping you for this, is that you are living in Kansas (around 1000'?) and will be immediately heading to the wilderness at 7,500-9.500'. That is going to be a shock on your system for a few days. You will notice every pound you carry on your back, or around your neck, as if it were 10 pounds. That's something to think about as you are packing all your stuff. In addition to your personal stuff, you will also pack water, some part of your shelter (tent) and some of the group food. Depending on exactly when you will be there the weather will be both hot and at times rainy. Expect to get soaked a couple of times. Leaders like everyone to hike in a group...so it can be difficult to stop and set up a shot, with tripod, lens breakout and such at every opportunity. Based upon my experience as both a scouter, and a leader, at Philomont, I suggest you set up your photo kit as a hand-held camera and take a lens you can leave on your camera for most of time. The spectacular scenery of Philmont favors wide angles, except if you find wildlife, on the ground or in the air, but you need to compromise somewhere. For low light, or group shots, try a small cloth bag ,you can fill with sand or gravel on the spot, and place on rock or stump to support camera. Pack an ample supply of memory cards, plus some spare batteries. Some nights will be out in the wilderness, but several stops will be at base camps, and they will have power, so you could recharge batteries if you need to. Just need to determine which is heavier and more bulky to pack...chargers or more batteries.

    Any way you cut it tho, Daniel, your camera kit should be more on minimal side. When you get to Philmont and go through orientation, they will counsel scouters to leave anything one might be able to live without at headquarters simply to cut down on weight. Many of the trails are steep, rocky or loose and slippery in places. You will fall on your ass a couple of times, but you won't want to fall on your DSLR.

    If it were in the budget, my recommendation would be to take a nice P&S digital w/zoom that I could stuff in my chest pocket or such. In my fantasy, it would either be a Canon S70, because of the wider angle lens and that it shoots in Camera Raw, or maybe a Fuji E900, because it shoots RAW and uses AA batteries (rechargeable or lith-ion disposable (which are likely available for sale at base camps)).

    buenas suerte, amigo! thumb.gif
    Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 12, 2006
    Arroyoshark,

    Great advice and explanation.

    Thanks,

    ziggy53
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 23,911 moderator
    edited April 12, 2006
    1997 Philmont bear attack story
    I found this about the unprovoked bear attack at Philmont in 1997:

    http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/philmont-bear.html
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
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    arroyosharkarroyoshark Registered Users Posts: 191 Major grins
    edited April 12, 2006
    Philmont Bears.....?

    Coupla summers ago, in August, I was driving across Philmont up Ponil Canyon (north of Cimarron), towards the Elliot Barker Wildlife area, for a little pre-season scouting. Within about a 1/2 mile of the Ponil base camp, I came across a foraging bear near the trail road. All I had at the time was a disposable camera, but was able to quietly approach to within 60-70 feet and observe for a few minutes.

    Not the best wildlife image, but here is the poor hot mangy bear:
    Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
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    arroyosharkarroyoshark Registered Users Posts: 191 Major grins
    edited April 12, 2006
    Philmont bear....

    Here is another image of the same bear:
    Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
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    arroyosharkarroyoshark Registered Users Posts: 191 Major grins
    edited April 13, 2006
    Philmont bear...

    The Ponil base camp was closed the summer of '02, due to previous year forest fire that swept through some of Philmont, particularly the Ponil canyon area.

    This changed wildlife habits in the area also. Here is the south side of Ponil Canyon in Philmont. This is typical Philmont terrain, tho...up and down. lol3.gif
    Available light is any damn light that's available -W. Eugene Smith
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    DanielBDanielB Registered Users Posts: 2,362 Major grins
    edited April 13, 2006
    StevenV wrote:
    Have fun. I'm a Sea Base guy myself, though my older son loved Philmont.

    they're doing sea base next year.... but i can't afford it if i'm doing Philmont too....


    i think if i take my camera it'll be batteries, camera. and 17-40. thats it. plus maybe the charger and a bunch of cards.thumb.gif would 17=27 on 10D be wide enough for most of my stuff? or should i go get a 12-24 for the trip, then be done with it and get the 17-40ne_nau.gif i think i'd take a monopod. not tripod. Philmont sounds like a great place....
    Daniel Bauer
    smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com

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    DanielBDanielB Registered Users Posts: 2,362 Major grins
    edited April 13, 2006
    hopefully theres a little more green when i go up theremwink.gif
    Daniel Bauer
    smugmug: www.StandOutphoto.smugmug.com

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    JamokeJamoke Registered Users Posts: 257 Major grins
    edited April 14, 2006
    DanielB wrote:
    they're doing sea base next year.... but i can't afford it if i'm doing Philmont too....


    i think if i take my camera it'll be batteries, camera. and 17-40. thats it. plus maybe the charger and a bunch of cards.thumb.gif would 17=27 on 10D be wide enough for most of my stuff? or should i go get a 12-24 for the trip, then be done with it and get the 17-40ne_nau.gif i think i'd take a monopod. not tripod. Philmont sounds like a great place....
    I'd buy a slighly used 12-24 Sigma that just went to Phillmont.

    My suggestion (FWIW):

    For the Trip - Canon 10D, 28-105, Sigma 12-24
    Sell me the 12-24, and buy your 17-40 4L not an ovation celebrity :uhoh or both.

    Canon 10D
    - 1.742 lbs
    28-105 - 0.82 lbs
    Sigma 12-24 - 1.356 lbs

    Total - 3.918 lbs

    Doesn't sound like a lot - but after about 20 miles it'll start to feel like 10 lbs, and after 40 miles it will feel like 20 lbs. But I think it's the smartest 4 lbs a photographer could take.

    3 1/2 lbs boat
    Just get a light tent
    Or pick a light sleeping bag


    12-24 = 19-38 on 10D
    Mine: Canon 20D, 50 f1.8 II, 28-105 II, 70-200 f2.8L, T 70-300 Macro, T 2X expander, 12-24 Sigma
    Hers: Sony SR10, (Soon Canon 5D MKII), 85 f1.8, 28-135 USM, Stroboframe, Manfrotto NeoTec
    Ours: Pair of 580 EX, Lensbaby, Studio Alien Bees, Son & TWO Daughters
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