Ginger: I am not sure if this is new to Digital, but from my experience, I take FAR, FAR, FAR (alot) more pictures with my dSLR than I ever did with my film cameras.
I also used bulk film (Tri-X) at one point, and shot many photos. But, shots were more contemplated I think, and there was some understanding that you had to develop and print all of those shots, so again I know I for one was more selective. The development and processing, wasnt cheap, even though I had others paying mostly.
With digital, I just shoot. For example, with portraits of kids, I keep my camera on multiple shot and I take 3+ photos with each pose, often rapid-fire. This allows me to avoid 'blinks" (and squirms) which too often ruin a good pose. I never would have done this with film. I also do more experimenting, bracket shooting +/- EV on alot of settings, to learn and perhaps fix later in photoshop. Again, I never did this in film. If anything I would try two settings and pray.
Long answer: Digital camera's do not actually use a shutter. The shutter actuation is actually controlled by software and the sensor. By saying it has over 92k actuations they are saying the sensor has been activated or taken over 92k pictures. The sensors are a light sensative electronic device and do wear out with use and even possibly with age as time will tell.....
I don't know the detailed design of Canon's, but I'm under the impression that most dSLRs still do have mechanical shutters. I know my Nikon D70 does. It, in fact, has both a mechanical shutter and something they call an electronic shutter. The mechanical shutter works up to about 1/500th. Above 1/500th, the mechanical shutter is open for 1/500th (allowing light to reach the sensor for that whole time), but the actual time that the sensor is collecting photons of light is controlled electronically by clearing the sensor electronically after the mechanical shutter has opened and then allowing it to collect photons for a specific time period before the charge is read off each cell in the sensor. This electronic control is what allows my D70 to have shutter speeds of 1/8000th of a second.
So, I think it's misleading to say that digital cameras don't have a shutter any more. That is probably true for p&s cameras that do real-time preview on the LCD, but not usually true for dSLRs.
So, I think it's misleading to say that digital cameras don't have a shutter any more. That is probably true for p&s cameras that do real-time preview on the LCD, but not usually true for dSLRs.
I don't know about nikons but this is what I have read on the canon camera's. Looks like I'm taking my 10D apart sometime this week for investigating.
Long answer: Digital camera's do not actually use a shutter.
Actually, dSLR's do. Digital P&S don't though. As far as the MTBF of the 20D shutter, it's been rated at twice that of the 10D, which itself was never rated. Some speculate a 10D has a 50k MTBF, but from observation it seems to have been 35k, and I think 70k sounds about right for a 20D.
And shutters failing is not new to digital. In fact, the pro series DSLR's have higher MTBFs than the pro SLRs of old.
Actually, dSLR's do. Digital P&S don't though. As far as the MTBF of the 20D shutter, it's been rated at twice that of the 10D, which itself was never rated. Some speculate a 10D has a 50k MTBF, but from observation it seems to have been 35k, and I think 70k sounds about right for a 20D.
And shutters failing is not new to digital. In fact, the pro series DSLR's have higher MTBFs than the pro SLRs of old.
It looks like my shutter failure is just around the corner! Looks like a tax write off in the making. I do agree that it's cheaper than film...in the long run. It just seems worse when it hits you all at once. Hopefully Ginger will be on her way to wearing out her second shutter soon!:D
In fact - SmugMug's gonna kick in the remainder of the $$ for you. We want you out there shooting again
Just awesome... make me glad I have a SmugMug account.
This thread also makes me realize how few pictures I take... I've owned my 20D since the end of 2004 and have taken less than 8000 shots. That gives me 15 years or so until I need a new shutter. Well, when my boy starts playing sports, my shots/day will probably increase exponentially... :uhoh
Just awesome... make me glad I have a SmugMug account.
This thread also makes me realize how few pictures I take... I've owned my 20D since the end of 2004 and have taken less than 8000 shots. That gives me 15 years or so until I need a new shutter. Well, when my boy starts playing sports, my shots/day will probably increase exponentially... :uhoh
Chris, there is a smugmug group called Dailies: each of us posts one shot a day.
Smile, that has decreased my hard drive space, improved, perhaps, my photography, but really helps keep those actuations up there. I think that is the right word.
Andy, I received the money from Paypal...........thanks again, bunches.
I am trying so hard not to invade your "time" more than I have to with this, and often I don't have much to say, believe it or not.
In the case of the empty message, I just wanted you to know that I received the Paypal money.
So, I wrote something like "thanks, I received paypal" "(no text)". When I write no text, I am using a shorter word for no message.........and it means less time spent opening e-mails.
I hope you read this, I did get the paypal, really do thank you, smugmug and all involved.
Andy, I received the money from Paypal...........thanks again, bunches.
I am trying so hard not to invade your "time" more than I have to with this, and often I don't have much to say, believe it or not.
In the case of the empty message, I just wanted you to know that I received the Paypal money.
So, I wrote something like "thanks, I received paypal" "(no text)". When I write no text, I am using a shorter word for no message.........and it means less time spent opening e-mails.
I hope you read this, I did get the paypal, really do thank you, smugmug and all involved.
I don't know about nikons but this is what I have read on the canon camera's. Looks like I'm taking my 10D apart sometime this week for investigating.
Dragon,
I don't know where you're getting your information, but according to Canon, the 20D certainly does have a shutter, an "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Electronically-controlled, focal-plane shutter".[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/specifications.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelTechSpecsSupportAct&fcategoryid=215&modelid=10464[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]As far as I know, all Canon dSLRs have similar shutter mechanisms.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Digicams do not have focal-plane shutters, although some have what amounts to a simple shutter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]ziggy53[/FONT]
I don't know where you're getting your information, but according to Canon, the 20D certainly does have a shutter, an "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Electronically-controlled, focal-plane shutter".[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]As far as I know, all Canon dSLRs have similar shutter mechanisms.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Digicams do not have focal-plane shutters, although some have what amounts to a simple shutter.[/FONT]
Was information I had been given from one of my teachers when I was taking photography classes last year. Hence why I was going to take the 10D apart to figure it out for myself. To bad I didn't do that at the time to point out his mistake. Oh well.
Ziggy, Dragon, then is what they are replacing the electronically controlled focal plane shutter?
Does knowing that have any importance?
Why I want to know is so I know what else can go bad.. If they are not replacing the sensor, then it can still go bad. ??? Or is it not as apt to?
I tried calling them this afternoon. I couldn't hear anything, except I made sure that my camera would go nowhere that I would be sending them the money. And my husband would be calling them.
I did get that message across. I have been asleep ever since. My eyes are swollen, and interestingly my head feels like it is, too.
I want to keep the pressure off of me long enough for the "swelling" to go down as I do want to go hear the jazz singer tomorrow night. Something totally unrelated to this.
But I am curious on the shutter thing as to what they are replacing and if I am now just waiting for the other shoe to fall, like the sensor. Or whether they are all tied together in one expensive unit. Or if this is non knowledge, or non relevant knowledge.
Smile, ginger
(Bill cannot ask that question, trust me............and my hearing will be worse than usual until I totally get over the emotional and fatigue impact of all of this. It really does affect hearing, and who knows what that man was trying to say to me.)
I should look back to what Jane was saying about TTY and someone said something about free internet relay thing. This was an afternoon I could have used it.
Basic description of Internet Relay Service
Ginger
Here is a basic description of the Internet Relay Service on Sprint's site. There is more information on the site itself. Also, feel free to e-mail me (I believe it is in profile, if not I will also be watching this thread.) I well understand how stress makes things harder than ever as it does that to me too. Although, I can no longer use the phone alone at all. In person I suppliment sound my hearing aid gives me (quite loud but still not the fine details that make it words rather than noise) with lip reading.
Go to www.sprintrelayonline.com you will have to allow Active X. After that loads a screen comes up where you input the number you want to call. There is also a box where you can give what they call dialing instructions. You can also set your preferred language (English, Spanish, or French). Click the Call Now Button and another screen comes up where what operator types what is heard from the called party is in the top box and what you type (and the operator reads to the called party) is in the bottom box. You can set the font and point size that you prefer for both of these boxes. You can save your conversation to your hard drive and also use your computer printer to print it out. It is all done on a secure site and the operators must keep it confidential. None of you conversation is saved by Sprint. There are also other addresses for other providers, but I don’t know them offhand as I have been happy with Sprint.
They have some new software available as well as a shorter address and a way to use other devices that have AOL instant messaging. I have not used any of that new stuff, yet. But the above I have used most times I want to make a long distance call as there is no charge for doing so!!! Of course, not completely free in the sense that you are already paying for you internet connection.
We are in different states so I don’t know what South Carolina as in the way of a TTY loan program. In Illinois, where I am, all you need is a doctors certificate that you cannot hear well enough to use a regular phone. You get a TTY and signaler that flashes a lamp when the phone rings free. We all pay 8 cents per month on our phone bill to fund this and the state relay service. If you speak well, you can use what is call Voice Carryover (VCO for short) and voice your end of the conversation (something you can’t do with the internet site). The TTY is a top of the line unit which includes the ability to direct connect it to your phone line and a printer built in that uses thermal paper similar to the paper used with a calculator.
Hope this helps. I realty like the service myself.
Jane
Ziggy, Dragon, then is what they are replacing the electronically controlled focal plane shutter?
Does knowing that have any importance?
Why I want to know is so I know what else can go bad.. If they are not replacing the sensor, then it can still go bad. ??? Or is it not as apt to?
I tried calling them this afternoon. I couldn't hear anything, except I made sure that my camera would go nowhere that I would be sending them the money. And my husband would be calling them.
I did get that message across. I have been asleep ever since. My eyes are swollen, and interestingly my head feels like it is, too.
I want to keep the pressure off of me long enough for the "swelling" to go down as I do want to go hear the jazz singer tomorrow night. Something totally unrelated to this.
But I am curious on the shutter thing as to what they are replacing and if I am now just waiting for the other shoe to fall, like the sensor. Or whether they are all tied together in one expensive unit. Or if this is non knowledge, or non relevant knowledge.
Smile, ginger
(Bill cannot ask that question, trust me............and my hearing will be worse than usual until I totally get over the emotional and fatigue impact of all of this. It really does affect hearing, and who knows what that man was trying to say to me.)
I should look back to what Jane was saying about TTY and someone said something about free internet relay thing. This was an afternoon I could have used it.
Ignore those last two paragraphs, ginger
The shutter is a mechanical device that has physical wear. It is expected that it will wear out. Canon probably doesn't go out of their way to tell the buying public what to expect for a lifetime, but it is definitely finite.
The sensor is a purely electronic device that should last much, much longer than the mechanical part of the shutter. It would be a fair question to ask the Canon service center, before you spend the ~$500 on repair, what else is likely to wear out in your camera in the next year or two. Just tell them that you'd like to repair is, but if you're likely to have to spend another ~$500 in the next year, then it would be better for everyone if you just bought a new camera rather than fixed this one. They should know what the major service issues are in the camera and be able to offer you some advice. By then (1-2 years), you will probably want a newer model camera anyway so I wouldn't worry about too much beyond that.
you wore it out!
So you are the first person in here to wear out their 20d!
90,000+ actuations! do you have a callous forming on your shutter finger?
Looking at the repair estimate I think it was quite reasonable-a shutter rebuild is a mammoth job that takes at least a whole day and ,in Australia anyway,would set you back at least $1000,so it usually means the end of the camera unless its is a reasonably new pro level camera that otherwise has a lot of life left in it.
I keep this in mind when I am tempted to pop off a 'just for fun' shot.
I just turned over the 10,000 mark the other day and tried to work out how many keepers there were and it didn't justify the amount of shots I had taken.
I am now trying to think more like a film photographer -take plenty of shots but try and keep them down whilst increasing keepers and preferably sellers.
The fact that they discounted labor etc and it came in as low as it did is reassuring.All this now academic as you have a new camera on the way but it is worth keeping in mind.
You need to put this into perspective. A camera is just a thing. In this case it is a thing that brings you and others joy. It is a nice thing, but a thing no less.
There is a possibility that more can go wrong with this camera. It could also happen with a different camera. Please don't let the worry about those possibilities make you ill, nothing is worth that.
Unless you can afford to get a new camera body, I think there is only one practical recommendation, to get your current body repaired.
Obviously, you need to develope a plan for a replacement. I think that should be a seperate issue.
BTW, Jane is giving you excellent advice and counsel. Pursue that with zeal.
Just finished some stuff from the other day on photoshop. interesting, working with Bill's really newish camera that doesn't usually get that much use...............the sensor is totally clean: knock on wood.
will look into the relay thing. I don't have a landline itself right now, but will look into it. Thanks for the info Greg and Ziggy, thanks, too.
ginger Jane, I will probably be in touch. I will PM you, or whatever, but nothing until after tomorrow night. I am already feeling a little better. I want to make that jazz thing!
www.sprintrelayonline.com
Ginger
I do not believe that you need a landline to use www.sprintrelayonline.com as I axcess (sp?) it the same way as I do this site. I just happen t be using a oldfashioned dial-up connection for budget reasons.
Also, I have a small TTY (about the size of a Blackberry or pack of cigarettes) that I use with a cell phone. That I had to purchase myself for $250 but it provides great peace of mind knowing I can make my own calls from anywhere.
Jane
I've been thinking about doing something like that myself for a while... but my time is just too erratic right now. Maybe when life settles a bit this summer.
What a TTY/TTD is
Thought some of the rest of you following this thread might wonder what Ginger and I are talking about when we refer to a TTY/TTD. One place to see them is the Krown Manufacturing site at: www.krowntty.com by clicking on the "Products" button in the top bar. They are just one of the companies that makes TTYs; but the only one that I know of that makes one as small at the PocketCom.
Jane
Just finished some stuff from the other day on photoshop. interesting, working with Bill's really newish camera that doesn't usually get that much use...............the sensor is totally clean: knock on wood.
!
Glad to hear everything turned out for you.
(for everyone) When you think about it...
1200$ (approx?) for a 20D back when she got it, divided by 90,000 shots = 0.01(3) dollars per shot.
Film is 5$/roll, divided by 24 exposures, is 0.20 $ per shot, not including developping.
I guess it just puts some perspective into us about the value and covenience of digital eh?
- Scott http://framebyframe.ca [Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500 [Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
Film is 5$/roll, divided by 24 exposures, is 0.20 $ per shot, not including developping.
You pay too much for your film. I pay $3/roll at most, more often I pay a little over $2/roll, and that's Fuji pro film and a 36 exposure roll. Granted it's another $4 for developing (scan my own), but with the cost of digital you have to add memory cards, ram for your computer, processing software, etc. Then you have to wonder how much of that 90k was just you screwing around (like taking a picture of nothing just to take a picture) and you wouldn't have taken on film. I agree digital is cheaper in the long run, but it's not cheaper by as much as it seems.
You pay too much for your film. I pay $3/roll at most, more often I pay a little over $2/roll, and that's Fuji pro film and a 36 exposure roll. Granted it's another $4 for developing (scan my own), but with the cost of digital you have to add memory cards, ram for your computer, processing software, etc. Then you have to wonder how much of that 90k was just you screwing around (like taking a picture of nothing just to take a picture) and you wouldn't have taken on film. I agree digital is cheaper in the long run, but it's not cheaper by as much as it seems.
Sorry. American$/Canadian$
In the end, roughly the same savings.
- Scott http://framebyframe.ca [Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500 [Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
Andy, Smugmug, and all else who helped out, I'm very impressed with the show of concern and willingness to help Ginger. I thought Jeffro's idea was excellent. This is why this is such a great *community*.
Ginger, I'm glad that your camera is getting fixed. Looking forward to seeing 90,000 more shots!
Comments
Ginger: I am not sure if this is new to Digital, but from my experience, I take FAR, FAR, FAR (alot) more pictures with my dSLR than I ever did with my film cameras.
I also used bulk film (Tri-X) at one point, and shot many photos. But, shots were more contemplated I think, and there was some understanding that you had to develop and print all of those shots, so again I know I for one was more selective. The development and processing, wasnt cheap, even though I had others paying mostly.
With digital, I just shoot. For example, with portraits of kids, I keep my camera on multiple shot and I take 3+ photos with each pose, often rapid-fire. This allows me to avoid 'blinks" (and squirms) which too often ruin a good pose. I never would have done this with film. I also do more experimenting, bracket shooting +/- EV on alot of settings, to learn and perhaps fix later in photoshop. Again, I never did this in film. If anything I would try two settings and pray.
$$ has been eletronically sent to you, and the voucher I just put in the mail at the post office directly.
Good Luck!
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I don't know the detailed design of Canon's, but I'm under the impression that most dSLRs still do have mechanical shutters. I know my Nikon D70 does. It, in fact, has both a mechanical shutter and something they call an electronic shutter. The mechanical shutter works up to about 1/500th. Above 1/500th, the mechanical shutter is open for 1/500th (allowing light to reach the sensor for that whole time), but the actual time that the sensor is collecting photons of light is controlled electronically by clearing the sensor electronically after the mechanical shutter has opened and then allowing it to collect photons for a specific time period before the charge is read off each cell in the sensor. This electronic control is what allows my D70 to have shutter speeds of 1/8000th of a second.
So, I think it's misleading to say that digital cameras don't have a shutter any more. That is probably true for p&s cameras that do real-time preview on the LCD, but not usually true for dSLRs.
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I don't know about nikons but this is what I have read on the canon camera's. Looks like I'm taking my 10D apart sometime this week for investigating.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Actually, dSLR's do. Digital P&S don't though. As far as the MTBF of the 20D shutter, it's been rated at twice that of the 10D, which itself was never rated. Some speculate a 10D has a 50k MTBF, but from observation it seems to have been 35k, and I think 70k sounds about right for a 20D.
And shutters failing is not new to digital. In fact, the pro series DSLR's have higher MTBFs than the pro SLRs of old.
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It looks like my shutter failure is just around the corner!
This thread also makes me realize how few pictures I take... I've owned my 20D since the end of 2004 and have taken less than 8000 shots. That gives me 15 years or so until I need a new shutter.
I learned something.
That was good writing, too, very easy for a non tech person like me to understand.
ginger
Chris, there is a smugmug group called Dailies: each of us posts one shot a day.
Smile, that has decreased my hard drive space, improved, perhaps, my photography, but really helps keep those actuations up there. I think that is the right word.
I am sure you would love dailies!
ginger
I am trying so hard not to invade your "time" more than I have to with this, and often I don't have much to say, believe it or not.
In the case of the empty message, I just wanted you to know that I received the Paypal money.
So, I wrote something like "thanks, I received paypal" "(no text)". When I write no text, I am using a shorter word for no message.........and it means less time spent opening e-mails.
I hope you read this, I did get the paypal, really do thank you, smugmug and all involved.
good people/person!
ginger
no text= no message, smile
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Dragon,
I don't know where you're getting your information, but according to Canon, the 20D certainly does have a shutter, an "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Electronically-controlled, focal-plane shutter".[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/specifications.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelTechSpecsSupportAct&fcategoryid=215&modelid=10464[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]As far as I know, all Canon dSLRs have similar shutter mechanisms.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Digicams do not have focal-plane shutters, although some have what amounts to a simple shutter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]ziggy53[/FONT]
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Was information I had been given from one of my teachers when I was taking photography classes last year. Hence why I was going to take the 10D apart to figure it out for myself. To bad I didn't do that at the time to point out his mistake. Oh well.
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Does knowing that have any importance?
Why I want to know is so I know what else can go bad.. If they are not replacing the sensor, then it can still go bad. ??? Or is it not as apt to?
I tried calling them this afternoon. I couldn't hear anything, except I made sure that my camera would go nowhere that I would be sending them the money. And my husband would be calling them.
I did get that message across. I have been asleep ever since. My eyes are swollen, and interestingly my head feels like it is, too.
I want to keep the pressure off of me long enough for the "swelling" to go down as I do want to go hear the jazz singer tomorrow night. Something totally unrelated to this.
But I am curious on the shutter thing as to what they are replacing and if I am now just waiting for the other shoe to fall, like the sensor. Or whether they are all tied together in one expensive unit. Or if this is non knowledge, or non relevant knowledge.
Smile, ginger
(Bill cannot ask that question, trust me............and my hearing will be worse than usual until I totally get over the emotional and fatigue impact of all of this. It really does affect hearing, and who knows what that man was trying to say to me.)
I should look back to what Jane was saying about TTY and someone said something about free internet relay thing. This was an afternoon I could have used it.
Ignore those last two paragraphs, ginger
Ginger
Here is a basic description of the Internet Relay Service on Sprint's site. There is more information on the site itself. Also, feel free to e-mail me (I believe it is in profile, if not I will also be watching this thread.) I well understand how stress makes things harder than ever as it does that to me too. Although, I can no longer use the phone alone at all. In person I suppliment sound my hearing aid gives me (quite loud but still not the fine details that make it words rather than noise) with lip reading.
Go to www.sprintrelayonline.com you will have to allow Active X. After that loads a screen comes up where you input the number you want to call. There is also a box where you can give what they call dialing instructions. You can also set your preferred language (English, Spanish, or French). Click the Call Now Button and another screen comes up where what operator types what is heard from the called party is in the top box and what you type (and the operator reads to the called party) is in the bottom box. You can set the font and point size that you prefer for both of these boxes. You can save your conversation to your hard drive and also use your computer printer to print it out. It is all done on a secure site and the operators must keep it confidential. None of you conversation is saved by Sprint. There are also other addresses for other providers, but I don’t know them offhand as I have been happy with Sprint.
They have some new software available as well as a shorter address and a way to use other devices that have AOL instant messaging. I have not used any of that new stuff, yet. But the above I have used most times I want to make a long distance call as there is no charge for doing so!!! Of course, not completely free in the sense that you are already paying for you internet connection.
We are in different states so I don’t know what South Carolina as in the way of a TTY loan program. In Illinois, where I am, all you need is a doctors certificate that you cannot hear well enough to use a regular phone. You get a TTY and signaler that flashes a lamp when the phone rings free. We all pay 8 cents per month on our phone bill to fund this and the state relay service. If you speak well, you can use what is call Voice Carryover (VCO for short) and voice your end of the conversation (something you can’t do with the internet site). The TTY is a top of the line unit which includes the ability to direct connect it to your phone line and a printer built in that uses thermal paper similar to the paper used with a calculator.
Hope this helps. I realty like the service myself.
Jane
The shutter is a mechanical device that has physical wear. It is expected that it will wear out. Canon probably doesn't go out of their way to tell the buying public what to expect for a lifetime, but it is definitely finite.
The sensor is a purely electronic device that should last much, much longer than the mechanical part of the shutter. It would be a fair question to ask the Canon service center, before you spend the ~$500 on repair, what else is likely to wear out in your camera in the next year or two. Just tell them that you'd like to repair is, but if you're likely to have to spend another ~$500 in the next year, then it would be better for everyone if you just bought a new camera rather than fixed this one. They should know what the major service issues are in the camera and be able to offer you some advice. By then (1-2 years), you will probably want a newer model camera anyway so I wouldn't worry about too much beyond that.
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So you are the first person in here to wear out their 20d!
90,000+ actuations! do you have a callous forming on your shutter finger?
Looking at the repair estimate I think it was quite reasonable-a shutter rebuild is a mammoth job that takes at least a whole day and ,in Australia anyway,would set you back at least $1000,so it usually means the end of the camera unless its is a reasonably new pro level camera that otherwise has a lot of life left in it.
I keep this in mind when I am tempted to pop off a 'just for fun' shot.
I just turned over the 10,000 mark the other day and tried to work out how many keepers there were and it didn't justify the amount of shots I had taken.
I am now trying to think more like a film photographer -take plenty of shots but try and keep them down whilst increasing keepers and preferably sellers.
The fact that they discounted labor etc and it came in as low as it did is reassuring.All this now academic as you have a new camera on the way but it is worth keeping in mind.
So,now back to those egrets!Good luck.
Greg
Longitude: 145° 08'East
Canon 20d,EFS-60mm Macro,Canon 85mm/1.8. Pentax Spotmatic SP,Pentax Super Takumars 50/1.4 &135/3.5,Pentax Super-Multi-Coated Takumars 200/4 ,300/4,400/5.6,Sigma 600/8.
You need to put this into perspective. A camera is just a thing. In this case it is a thing that brings you and others joy. It is a nice thing, but a thing no less.
There is a possibility that more can go wrong with this camera. It could also happen with a different camera. Please don't let the worry about those possibilities make you ill, nothing is worth that.
Unless you can afford to get a new camera body, I think there is only one practical recommendation, to get your current body repaired.
Obviously, you need to develope a plan for a replacement. I think that should be a seperate issue.
BTW, Jane is giving you excellent advice and counsel. Pursue that with zeal.
Take care of yourself and Bill,
ziggy53
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Just finished some stuff from the other day on photoshop. interesting, working with Bill's really newish camera that doesn't usually get that much use...............the sensor is totally clean: knock on wood.
will look into the relay thing. I don't have a landline itself right now, but will look into it. Thanks for the info Greg and Ziggy, thanks, too.
ginger Jane, I will probably be in touch. I will PM you, or whatever, but nothing until after tomorrow night. I am already feeling a little better. I want to make that jazz thing!
Ginger
I do not believe that you need a landline to use www.sprintrelayonline.com as I axcess (sp?) it the same way as I do this site. I just happen t be using a oldfashioned dial-up connection for budget reasons.
Also, I have a small TTY (about the size of a Blackberry or pack of cigarettes) that I use with a cell phone. That I had to purchase myself for $250 but it provides great peace of mind knowing I can make my own calls from anywhere.
Jane
I've been thinking about doing something like that myself for a while... but my time is just too erratic right now. Maybe when life settles a bit this summer.
Thought some of the rest of you following this thread might wonder what Ginger and I are talking about when we refer to a TTY/TTD. One place to see them is the Krown Manufacturing site at: www.krowntty.com by clicking on the "Products" button in the top bar. They are just one of the companies that makes TTYs; but the only one that I know of that makes one as small at the PocketCom.
Jane
Glad to hear everything turned out for you.
(for everyone) When you think about it...
1200$ (approx?) for a 20D back when she got it, divided by 90,000 shots = 0.01(3) dollars per shot.
Film is 5$/roll, divided by 24 exposures, is 0.20 $ per shot, not including developping.
I guess it just puts some perspective into us about the value and covenience of digital eh?
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
You pay too much for your film. I pay $3/roll at most, more often I pay a little over $2/roll, and that's Fuji pro film and a 36 exposure roll. Granted it's another $4 for developing (scan my own), but with the cost of digital you have to add memory cards, ram for your computer, processing software, etc. Then you have to wonder how much of that 90k was just you screwing around (like taking a picture of nothing just to take a picture) and you wouldn't have taken on film. I agree digital is cheaper in the long run, but it's not cheaper by as much as it seems.
Sorry. American$/Canadian$
In the end, roughly the same savings.
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
Ginger, I'm glad that your camera is getting fixed. Looking forward to seeing 90,000 more shots!
Erich
Canon tells you.
Unless you have a 1D series, you can't check, you have to keep track of it yourself.
http://framebyframe.ca
[Bodies] Canon EOS 20D - Canon EOS 500
[Lenses] Sigma APO 70-200 f/2.8 - Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 - Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 - Tamron XR Di 28-75mm f/2.8 - Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
[Flash] Sigma EF500 Super DG Flash
[Tripod] Manfrotto 055 Pro Black
[Head] 484RC2, 200RC2
the way i have done it is to set my file numbering to continuous
this will number each shot consecutively up to 10,000 when it clicks over to 1 again
Longitude: 145° 08'East
Canon 20d,EFS-60mm Macro,Canon 85mm/1.8. Pentax Spotmatic SP,Pentax Super Takumars 50/1.4 &135/3.5,Pentax Super-Multi-Coated Takumars 200/4 ,300/4,400/5.6,Sigma 600/8.