That was a good read PF....ta. Is there someplace we can all go when this becomes too much for our familys ?
My name is Humungus & im a lens addict.
At first i picked up a Kodak 2.1 mp cx 4230 3 years ago...there was no apparent problen back then... just point & shoot.
I then convinced my self that the 5 mp Olympus could juuuuuuuust help that little bit more with low light shots & the family backed me 100%.
Things went down hill from there...i said over & over that i didnt need a DSLR or any fancy shmancy lens's to go with it. I was talking in a News Group & someone posted photos of those long white canon lens's.
Now i find myself loitering daily through glass manufacturers sites & clearing my search history before the family come home. I keep the curtains drawn & now believe that the people downstairs have listening devices & cameras in my unit....Im not eating & my skin is turning a pasty white...
Humungus, I love reading this. I am going to print it and put it on my refrigerator.
My name is Ginger, and I am a camera addict. Is there a Christmas going on?
Anything else in life than my perusal of ebay, all camera outlets, ads, etc, for a 20D that I can't get until I get a substantial tax return, and that is an if. Gonna get lots of clothes ready for Goodwill (a deduction).
If I can feed my camera hunger then I am sure I will graduate to LENSES.
What do they say about boats, it is a something that you pour money into? I place cameras as more dangerous than boats. Every day now I am getting a large 4 color Canon Ad in my newspaper. At least with boats, they don't hit you everytime you open your newspaper. You have to look for the boats.
(Of course, I do that, too, with the cameras)
And the camera mags, even USAToday, they have reviews.............agggghhh!
Think how much cheaper in life things could be if you only could rent instead of buy.
Judging from the rate some of us go through equipment, I'd have to say we're all just renting anyway.
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
I had a 38' Trawler for 2.5 years that we lived on....at least that sickness can be quelled with the fact few people have $100 odd thousand in their skyrocket but cameras....oh they are a different teapot of eels...they are only a few thousand so it eats at us much more.
Better Organise Another Thousand
The 2 best days of my life...the day i bought that boat & the day i sold it !
i'm slowly drifting into wanting primes. i have the 35 f/1.4, the 50 f/1.4, and now the 85 f/1.8. at a minimum i'm considering the 200L f/2.8 - also a really good bargain (relatively speaking)! but damn - that 200 f/1.8 whooo boy
Primes are way cool. Problem is, you gotta carry 'em all with you. I'm slowly drifting toward L zooms. Uh...strike that...I'm firmly entrenched in L zooms. Got the 17-40/4, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/4, and I'm considering either the 70-200/2.8 IS or 28-300/3.5-5.6. It's definitely a sickness and once you shoot with L glass, you don't want to go back.
:cry
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
No way im going to buy 'half' a camera so some good quality 'normal' stuff will do til i get famous.
So the drebel has a very good AF system and image engine. Cheap too. It should carry you while you stock up on good glass. Then, some day, you'll cough up for a better body, and still have the good glass to use on it (assuming you stay with Canon).
Personally, I'd skip the PlastiRebel and go straight for a used 10D. Or if you're feeling flush, just go for the 20D. Or a 1Ds Mark II. Oh hell...just take out another mortgage and get one of each.
Hope that helps...
fish
"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." - Edward Weston "The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Great thread, humungosity, thanks for pursuing it. Lots of great explanations here, PF and Andy know their stuff.
I have a 300 F4, and think it's slow to autofocus, especially with the 1.4x mounted, so now I want bigger and faster glass. But lord, the price is staggering. :eek1 I've been pretty liberal splashing my money around buying gear, but I've met my match. Upgrading to a 300 or preferably 400 2.8 is going to take some discipline and savings.
So the drebel has a very good AF system and image engine. Cheap too. It should carry you while you stock up on good glass. Then, some day, you'll cough up for a better body, and still have the good glass to use on it (assuming you stay with Canon).
Personally, I'd skip the PlastiRebel and go straight for a used 10D. Or if you're feeling flush, just go for the 20D. Or a 1Ds Mark II. Oh hell...just take out another mortgage and get one of each.
Hope that helps...
fish
Whats the other name for a 10D ? I cant find any info. The only 10D they talk about in DP Review is around $6K..
Ah...thats it...tks andy. Something has to give here soon. I recon i might look for a second hand DSLR at 1st as there are plenty of people upgrading with all the new stuff coming out.
Dont laugh...i was looking at a sigma 800 mm before & thought .."hmmm $1100 is ok for a lens that big" then i realised that i had missed a zero in the price !
Ah...thats it...tks andy. Something has to give here soon. I recon i might look for a second hand DSLR at 1st as there are plenty of people upgrading with all the new stuff coming out.
Dont laugh...i was looking at a sigma 800 mm before & thought .."hmmm $1100 is ok for a lens that big" then i realised that i had missed a zero in the price !
'gus:
get your money ready, and keep monitoring fred miranda's buy/sell forum. there are always used equipment coming up for sale there daily. 10d's are selling for 8 or 9 hund usd about now.
get your money ready, and keep monitoring fred miranda's buy/sell forum. there are always used equipment coming up for sale there daily. 10d's are selling for 8 or 9 hund usd about now.
oh and gus: if you save enough shekels, you can buy one of these
AGAIN: NOT MY PIC, IT came to me via email. i don't know the owner but it's been around the globe a thousand times so i figure it's fair game to link
Ta both of you...i may well take you up on that wax'd one. Will be buying in a month or 2.
yes, having other folks vouch for you helps in the transaction. i will be happy to act as a reference for you, and also to make sure that sid doesn't run off to ipanema with your new camera and lynnie
yes, having other folks vouch for you helps in the transaction. i will be happy to act as a reference for you, and also to make sure that sid doesn't run off to ipanema with your new camera and lynnie
I recon i could scent track sid over 2000 miles in a snow storm..
May wait until about feb to see what the D70's are doing....Very similar to the Rebel but that 1/8000 shutter has my interest.
'gus
imo, what you really should be thinking about is the system, not the body - bodies will come and go - but lenses and many accessories are forever.
both nikon and canon make great glass - there are differences in their lens lineups and you should investigate both carefully.
also - there's a big difference between ccd sensor nikon and cmos sensor canon images. here too, you should make a thorough investigation to see what you prefer. neither one is "better" than the other, but there are differences and you should be aware of that.
imo, what you really should be thinking about is the system, not the body - bodies will come and go - but lenses and many accessories are forever.
both nikon and canon make great glass - there are differences in their lens lineups and you should investigate both carefully.
also - there's a big difference between ccd sensor nikon and cmos sensor canon images. here too, you should make a thorough investigation to see what you prefer. neither one is "better" than the other, but there are differences and you should be aware of that.
Here lies my pain andy...
I really really want a 12x lens..period.
I cannot justify $2500 USD in gear at this point in my life so I would be going backwards to just get a DSLR with normal lens for say $1000 USD. The FZ-20 (they say) has a f2.8 12x across the zoom range...now i accept that it probably wont be that good (marketing being what it is) but im happy to put up with a slower 12x lens for an entire outfit below say $700 USD...the lens will still do good zooms at sunrise & sunset light.
Now i really want a 'bulb' setting which the FZ-20 does not have but DSLR's do.
I think i can answer my own questions with "which camera will be used more"
Here ..on the 2nd row down is a zoom example of the FZ-20 in strong light. I wish i could see some zoom shots in lowish light.
There is a very strong chance that I will be buying a D20 in February and selling my Rebel.
My Rebel cannot be priced high for a Rebel, as I have the original box and paperwork, but that is about all. I can vouch for me as a very casual beach going camera user. However, I am not giving it away either.........For that I would keep it.
I also have a Canon S230 pt and shoot, haven't decided on that.
ginger
The lens I used to take the photo of the dogs in the portrait challenge, first photo, and a very small part of the original photo, but excellent detail, etc. That was my walk around 28-135 Canon, NOT glass, but it is IS. Just thought someone might want to know. I like it a lot, no problems with it. Wish I could say the same about my 70-300 Canon, not glass either, but IS. I want a long lens. It would help if the long lens was not soft when full out. Kind of defeats the purpose. I am not buying new lenses.
Well, the 35mm equivalent of the FZ-20 is 36-432. So what you are looking for is either
for Nikon lenses that cover:
36/1.5 - 432/1.5 (= 24 - 288 )
for Canon lenses that cover: (considering you'll opt for the D30/D60/10D/20D/300D)
36/1.6 - 432/1.6 (= 22,5 - 270 )
Now, about Nikon I know absolutely nothing I think there are some people who can help you with that. As for the Canon setup I'd suggest:
17-40 f/4 L
70-200 f/4 L
1.4 TC
That'll do for starters and it will give you the same reach (a bit more even) as your FZ-20. You'd have to look around to see if it fits your budget!
Hope this helps a bit with your research!
Regards,
I'm new to the dslr realm also but when I was purchasing I was stuck in the middle between the d70 and rebel, the more people I talked to about the d70 is yah its faster but the quality drops quickly, higher ISO's are unusable so I was told, so I went with a rebel, till I can get a few lenses in my pocket then I'll upgrade bodies. Just something else for you to research I guess. Well that's my story, I'll be joining the Lens Addidts Anonymus before too long.
'gus,
I have received the DMC-FZ20 earlier than I thought. I will try to begin to upload some original frames from it in a few days, so that you can see the quality and decide for yourself if it will meet your needs. It looks nice in black, the lens is large, the body is plastic and feels like it. It is very light.
A review is here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/
A camera you might consider, which has not been discussed here, is the new Nikon 8800 - which has a fast long lens and includes antishake technology in the body, similar to the A2 Minolta. The Nikon 8800 is an 8 Mgpixel camera and should have the nice Nikon color quality and a high quality Nikon lens. It is selling here in the US for $999. I have thought about one a travel camera on a bike - It uses an electronic viewfinder
The reviewer's are saying it is much better than the 8700 Nikon which did not get great reviews. Lots to think about. You can read about it here - http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikoncp8800/
Well, the 35mm equivalent of the FZ-20 is 36-432. So what you are looking for is either
for Nikon lenses that cover:
36/1.5 - 432/1.5 (= 24 - 288 )
for Canon lenses that cover: (considering you'll opt for the D30/D60/10D/20D/300D)
36/1.6 - 432/1.6 (= 22,5 - 270 )
Now, about Nikon I know absolutely nothing I think there are some people who can help you with that. As for the Canon setup I'd suggest:
17-40 f/4 L
70-200 f/4 L
1.4 TC
That'll do for starters and it will give you the same reach (a bit more even) as your FZ-20. You'd have to look around to see if it fits your budget!
Hope this helps a bit with your research!
Regards,
Tks michiel..thats the info i needed to know to help me choose/search.
'gus,
I have received the DMC-FZ20 earlier than I thought. I will try to begin to upload some original frames from it in a few days, so that you can see the quality and decide for yourself if it will meet your needs. It looks nice in black, the lens is large, the body is plastic and feels like it. It is very light.
A review is here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/
A camera you might consider, which has not been discussed here, is the new Nikon 8800 - which has a fast long lens and includes antishake technology in the body, similar to the A2 Minolta. The Nikon 8800 is an 8 Mgpixel camera and should have the nice Nikon color quality and a high quality Nikon lens. It is selling here in the US for $999. I have thought about one a travel camera on a bike - It uses an electronic viewfinder
The reviewer's are saying it is much better than the 8700 Nikon which did not get great reviews. Lots to think about. You can read about it here - http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikoncp8800/
PF..i cant wait to see what you think about the lens speed over the entire 12x range...they claim f2.8 thoughout & see your samples in some low light.
Yes i am also looking at the Nikon...it also has what i want except in a lot of personal reviews i read problems with higher iso's (noise) but it does have a bulb though & i want that. It also has time lapse which would be interesting to play with.
don't I know
My first setup (cost me all my money at the time + 3 months pay-off ) was a 2nd hand D30 + 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 + 38mm f/2.8 and the vertical grip. Boy was that a feast!!! Now I have a 20D + grip + the 2 L-lenses I mentioned before and the 50 f/1.4 along with some storage (external device 40 GB + CF cards) 2 tripods, 3 bags and so on and so forth DSLR disease is BAAAAAAAD but it's fun!
Have fun / good luck making your choices
don't I know
My first setup (cost me all my money at the time + 3 months pay-off ) was a 2nd hand D30 + 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 + 38mm f/2.8 and the vertical grip. Boy was that a feast!!! Now I have a 20D + grip + the 2 L-lenses I mentioned before and the 50 f/1.4 along with some storage (external device 40 GB + CF cards) 2 tripods, 3 bags and so on and so forth DSLR disease is BAAAAAAAD but it's fun!
Have fun / good luck making your choices
Yep..this is where the DSLR idea falls flat for me in one of several ways...i always carry my camera in my lunch box every day. No way would i put a good DSLR& lens's in the truck with me.
One day...in the not so distant future... i will be recognised as "that photographer" that was 1st on the scene with his lunch box & camera when they landed & tried to comunicate. I will share my ham & pickles with them over a chat & thermos of char.
If i have a 10 or 12x then i just grab it out just as i currently do with my olympus....nothing to worry about other than the batteries.
well, you could
get yourself a cheap-@ss lens as carry-around... Like the 75-300 that seems like an okay mediocre lens...
I carry my 17-40 and 70-200 alot with me. I've got a small bag where I keep the 70-200 and the body + grip + CF's + batteries in and I've got a belt pouch that I usually attach to the bag to hold the 17-40... I can show you a photo of it if you like (not to get you excited )
Hey, I just did some research... Perhaps you can check out this beast http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=15&sort=7&thecat=27
I don't really know how it would handle or anything... It was just something I came across!
As a matter of fact these reviews might help alot if you're going DSLR: http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/
Just adding to the confusion
Comments
No way im going to buy 'half' a camera so some good quality 'normal' stuff will do til i get famous.
My name is Ginger, and I am a camera addict. Is there a Christmas going on?
Anything else in life than my perusal of ebay, all camera outlets, ads, etc, for a 20D that I can't get until I get a substantial tax return, and that is an if. Gonna get lots of clothes ready for Goodwill (a deduction).
If I can feed my camera hunger then I am sure I will graduate to LENSES.
What do they say about boats, it is a something that you pour money into? I place cameras as more dangerous than boats. Every day now I am getting a large 4 color Canon Ad in my newspaper. At least with boats, they don't hit you everytime you open your newspaper. You have to look for the boats.
(Of course, I do that, too, with the cameras)
And the camera mags, even USAToday, they have reviews.............agggghhh!
Love ya Humungus,
ginger
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Better Organise Another Thousand
The 2 best days of my life...the day i bought that boat & the day i sold it !
:cry
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Personally, I'd skip the PlastiRebel and go straight for a used 10D. Or if you're feeling flush, just go for the 20D. Or a 1Ds Mark II. Oh hell...just take out another mortgage and get one of each.
Hope that helps...
fish
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."-Hunter S.Thompson
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I have a 300 F4, and think it's slow to autofocus, especially with the 1.4x mounted, so now I want bigger and faster glass. But lord, the price is staggering. :eek1 I've been pretty liberal splashing my money around buying gear, but I've met my match. Upgrading to a 300 or preferably 400 2.8 is going to take some discipline and savings.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Do you mean another camera fish ?
canon 10d info right here
oh and 'gus, this'll be you in a year or so (NOT MY PHOTOGRAPH, don't know the original shooter)
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
Dont laugh...i was looking at a sigma 800 mm before & thought .."hmmm $1100 is ok for a lens that big" then i realised that i had missed a zero in the price !
'gus:
get your money ready, and keep monitoring fred miranda's buy/sell forum. there are always used equipment coming up for sale there daily. 10d's are selling for 8 or 9 hund usd about now.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
oh and gus: if you save enough shekels, you can buy one of these
AGAIN: NOT MY PIC, IT came to me via email. i don't know the owner but it's been around the globe a thousand times so i figure it's fair game to link
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam
http://www.mcneel.com/users/jb/foghorn/ill_shut_up.au
yes, having other folks vouch for you helps in the transaction. i will be happy to act as a reference for you, and also to make sure that sid doesn't run off to ipanema with your new camera and lynnie
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
'gus
imo, what you really should be thinking about is the system, not the body - bodies will come and go - but lenses and many accessories are forever.
both nikon and canon make great glass - there are differences in their lens lineups and you should investigate both carefully.
also - there's a big difference between ccd sensor nikon and cmos sensor canon images. here too, you should make a thorough investigation to see what you prefer. neither one is "better" than the other, but there are differences and you should be aware of that.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I really really want a 12x lens..period.
I cannot justify $2500 USD in gear at this point in my life so I would be going backwards to just get a DSLR with normal lens for say $1000 USD. The FZ-20 (they say) has a f2.8 12x across the zoom range...now i accept that it probably wont be that good (marketing being what it is) but im happy to put up with a slower 12x lens for an entire outfit below say $700 USD...the lens will still do good zooms at sunrise & sunset light.
Now i really want a 'bulb' setting which the FZ-20 does not have but DSLR's do.
I think i can answer my own questions with "which camera will be used more"
Here ..on the 2nd row down is a zoom example of the FZ-20 in strong light. I wish i could see some zoom shots in lowish light.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/fz20_samples.html
My Rebel cannot be priced high for a Rebel, as I have the original box and paperwork, but that is about all. I can vouch for me as a very casual beach going camera user. However, I am not giving it away either.........For that I would keep it.
I also have a Canon S230 pt and shoot, haven't decided on that.
ginger
The lens I used to take the photo of the dogs in the portrait challenge, first photo, and a very small part of the original photo, but excellent detail, etc. That was my walk around 28-135 Canon, NOT glass, but it is IS. Just thought someone might want to know. I like it a lot, no problems with it. Wish I could say the same about my 70-300 Canon, not glass either, but IS. I want a long lens. It would help if the long lens was not soft when full out. Kind of defeats the purpose. I am not buying new lenses.
Well, the 35mm equivalent of the FZ-20 is 36-432. So what you are looking for is either
for Nikon lenses that cover:
36/1.5 - 432/1.5 (= 24 - 288 )
for Canon lenses that cover: (considering you'll opt for the D30/D60/10D/20D/300D)
36/1.6 - 432/1.6 (= 22,5 - 270 )
Now, about Nikon I know absolutely nothing
17-40 f/4 L
70-200 f/4 L
1.4 TC
That'll do for starters and it will give you the same reach (a bit more even) as your FZ-20. You'd have to look around to see if it fits your budget!
Hope this helps a bit with your research!
Regards,
Michiel de Brieder
http://www.digital-eye.nl
my smugmug
I have received the DMC-FZ20 earlier than I thought. I will try to begin to upload some original frames from it in a few days, so that you can see the quality and decide for yourself if it will meet your needs. It looks nice in black, the lens is large, the body is plastic and feels like it. It is very light.
A review is here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/
A camera you might consider, which has not been discussed here, is the new Nikon 8800 - which has a fast long lens and includes antishake technology in the body, similar to the A2 Minolta. The Nikon 8800 is an 8 Mgpixel camera and should have the nice Nikon color quality and a high quality Nikon lens. It is selling here in the US for $999. I have thought about one a travel camera on a bike - It uses an electronic viewfinder
The reviewer's are saying it is much better than the 8700 Nikon which did not get great reviews. Lots to think about. You can read about it here -
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikoncp8800/
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
This is killing me
Yes i am also looking at the Nikon...it also has what i want except in a lot of personal reviews i read problems with higher iso's (noise) but it does have a bulb though & i want that. It also has time lapse which would be interesting to play with.
My first setup (cost me all my money at the time + 3 months pay-off
Have fun / good luck making your choices
Michiel de Brieder
http://www.digital-eye.nl
One day...in the not so distant future... i will be recognised as "that photographer" that was 1st on the scene with his lunch box & camera when they landed & tried to comunicate. I will share my ham & pickles with them over a chat & thermos of char.
If i have a 10 or 12x then i just grab it out just as i currently do with my olympus....nothing to worry about other than the batteries.
get yourself a cheap-@ss lens as carry-around... Like the 75-300 that seems like an okay mediocre lens...
I carry my 17-40 and 70-200 alot with me. I've got a small bag where I keep the 70-200 and the body + grip + CF's + batteries in and I've got a belt pouch that I usually attach to the bag to hold the 17-40... I can show you a photo of it if you like
Hey, I just did some research... Perhaps you can check out this beast
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=15&sort=7&thecat=27
I don't really know how it would handle or anything... It was just something I came across!
As a matter of fact these reviews might help alot if you're going DSLR:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/
Just adding to the confusion
Michiel de Brieder
http://www.digital-eye.nl