Andy/Baldy - feed me

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  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited July 27, 2008
    Llywellyn wrote:
    :giggle I have to confess my obsession with Japanese culture has made me curious about natto, but if the fermentation is anything equal to tht of kimchi, I may have the same reaction. I think it's like Vegemite--an acquired, local taste. :D Though...natto is presented as something disgusting in a lot of anime I've watched, so maybe the Japanese don't think much of it themselves. mwink.gif
    Natto - :nah
    Kimchi - thumb.gif The Asian markets that we visit in Virginia have tables with numerous varieties on sale. Some are much much more pungent and "tasty" than others. I tend to go for the milder ones. Luckily, they offer samples for tasting. Of course, no matter what, I can only take so much so I don't buy that much.

    One week has gone by with no animals in my system.
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited July 27, 2008
    RogersDA wrote:
    Natto - :nah
    Kimchi - thumb.gif The Asian markets that we visit in Virginia have tables with numerous varieties on sale. Some are much much more pungent and "tasty" than others. I tend to go for the milder ones. Luckily, they offer samples for tasting. Of course, no matter what, I can only take so much so I don't buy that much.

    One week has gone by with no animals in my system.


    I like the kimchee, but it's really salty. Much too salty for healthy diet, IMO. It's one of the seven most unhealthy foods. deal.gif

    A good way to measure if a food is too salty: the number mg of salt in a serving should not exceed the number of calories in the serving.
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  • Phil U.Phil U. Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited July 29, 2008
    I just wanted to share a bit of my story. Sorry if this ends up being rather long. Last year I had reached a point where I was ready to accept a change of diet. I just seemed to be getting larger and more miserable. I had never considered making the move to veg/vegan. I saw this thread though and read ETL and The China Study. I was convinced and was ready to give it a try. Turns out that right around that time I was in the doctor's office for some other stuff. He noted high blood pressure and also pulled the lab work. When I went back to review the lab results he told me I was headed for a train wreck because of my high BP, cholesterol, and borderline diabetes. Not something one wants to hear all at once. I told him my intended diet change. He said that while he wouldn't discourage me from doing that, it wouldn't help. He even said I couldn't lower the cholesterol through diet - it was genetic. He wanted me on medication to lower the BP and cholesterol.

    I was really conflicted because I'm one that just doesn't like taking medications. Artificial chemicals in the body just don't seem like a good thing to me - kind of the best intentions/worst deeds type of thing. Plus, if I was taking the meds at the same time as changing my eating, how was I to know which one really helped? I talked to some family and friends and finally decided I'd put off the medications for a while to see what would happen with the tests after the change of diet.

    I went at it fairly strictly with a little cheating here and there (maybe one day every week or every other week) mostly some fish (mmm...sushi) but also the occasional pizza and beer night. :slosh

    In the meantime I bought a BP monitor for home use. BP at home in a relaxed state ran pretty much from good to the high end of normal.

    About nine months later - and 40 pounds lighter - I went back in to have the labs re-done. Doc gave me an earful about not taking the medications and not coming back in to be checked out. Flipped out about my BP (it was high - like 150/90 or something like that). I explained to him the readings I was getting at home and told him I figured the high readings were my body's reaction to having to come in and see him - whitecoat hypertension. Said he'd look at the labs but promised they wouldn't be any better. Here are the numbers - before on the left, after on the right:

    Triglyceride - 136 - 160
    Total cholesterol - 251 - 205
    HDL (good stuff) - 45 - 35
    LDL (bad stuff) - 179 - 139

    There's a lot of other numbers on the report - almost all of them improved - most are now in the normal range - most of those right at the middle of the normal range. The exception being the Triglyceride - not sure why that went UP... headscratch.gif The HDL also went down and although Doc says he wants that higher, it's still considered in the normal range.

    Now to me, looking at the numbers, I don't know how to see that as anything but an improvement - a move in the right direction and something to be happy about. My doc pretty much wrote that off and told me to forget the numbers because I'm in no better state than I was before. He said I needed to be on the medications before stuff starts failing. I really tried to get him to acknowledge the improvement but he wouldn't have any part of it. He also kept citing family history of high BP, heart-disease, and diabetes. That's fine, but nobody in my family has made a change like this before either.

    So, I'm still a little conflicted. I have tried the medications. The BP medication ended up giving me spells of low BP - I'd bend over for something and get REAL dizzy when standing back up. One time I swear I was real close to blacking out - weak knees, tunnel vision, the works. The first cholesterol med messed up my digestion in a bad way :flush so I stopped taking that after a week. When I went back in for the follow-up he told me to cut the BP med in half and gave me a different cholesterol med. That seems to have taken care of the issues. Was just in today for the follow-up on those changes. He seemed satisfied and wrote the official scripts. Still not sure I want to be taking them. Supposed to go back to see him again in 6 months. He also wrote me a script to re-do the labs at any time I choose.

    Anyway, that's my experience thus far. I think I may go ahead and take the low-dose BP med for now but hold off on the cholesterol med to see if I can continue to improve those numbers through diet & exercise. I'll keep a close eye on the BP and if it starts to run any lower I'll probably be back up in there talking to him about doing away with that also.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
  • Moogle PepperMoogle Pepper Registered Users Posts: 2,950 Major grins
    edited July 29, 2008
    Some doctors are really biased and do not look at alternatives other than towards medicine. ne_nau.gif

    First off, congrats on the change, you really needed the change in diet and exercise.


    Try going for a raw diet or a much limited intake of anything processed. As well you could also look into macrobiotic diets too.
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  • Mike LaneMike Lane Registered Users Posts: 7,106 Major grins
    edited July 29, 2008
    Phil U. wrote:
    Anyone have any thoughts?
    Try being very strict with your diet for 6 weeks (maybe follow the ETL 6 week plan with no cheating) and see where that gets you.

    The doctor may very well have your best interests in mind; however, it is very likely that he or she hasn't ever gotten the information from ETL or TCS. You are ultimately responsible for your own health, so take charge.
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited July 29, 2008
    Mike Lane wrote:
    Try being very strict with your diet for 6 weeks (maybe follow the ETL 6 week plan with no cheating) and see where that gets you.

    The doctor may very well have your best interests in mind; however, it is very likely that he or she hasn't ever gotten the information from ETL or TCS. You are ultimately responsible for your own health, so take charge.


    Yah, stop cheesing, er... cheating! :D
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  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited July 29, 2008
    I'd just like to talk a bit about this bar of chocolate I picked up a while back in CA. Something I don't do anymore but I had to because I couldn't believe the label when I read it, and because I knew I couldn't get any thing like this out in MD without extensive research:

    www.fearlesschocolate.com

    Ingredients list: Organic raw cocoa, organic rapadura, non-chemically treated rice bran and germ, organic cinnamon, organic vanilla, sea salt.

    Still a treat, not a regularity but very good when it's rare as rain.

    thumb.gifthumb
  • AnneMcBeanAnneMcBean Registered Users Posts: 503 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2008
    Phil U. wrote:
    I just wanted to share a bit of my story.

    Congrats! Looks like you've been making great changes. Losing 40 lb and dropping your total cholesterol by 50 points is great! wings.gif

    From what I've read (Dr. Esselstyn in particular, who's in there with Fuhrman and Campbell on nutrition philosophy: http://www.heartattackproof.com/ ), seems like you might want to take that cholesterol medication while you're maintaining your healthy diet. It could keep you in the safe zone (below 150 on total cholesterol) while you're working your way down there on your own.

    I don't know much about HBP, so no thoughts there, except that I think as your weight drops and your diet continues to improve, I expect you'll see changes in this area as well.

    My husband, who is a healthy weight and good about exercising, toed the high blood pressure line for a while even though we were skipping meat, rarely eating dairy or sweets. It wasn't until he took 6 weeks and went "hardcore" that he saw that drop to a healthier number. I found in that six weeks that we weren't just skipping the bad stuff but we were really tanking up on the good stuff: more leafy greens, and veggies in general, more beans and lentils, etc. That, combined with zero cheating seems to have kicked his body back in gear.

    We now eat high quality, nutritious food 90-95% of the time, and 5% of the time we eat delicious, empty calorie food. We have almost no middle ground in our diet. Whereas before we'd kind of fall back on whole wheat bread and peanut butter, whole grain breakfast cereal and soy milk, and whole wheat pasta with pesto sauce (hey, they're easy!), now we have fruit and nuts for breakfast, veggies for snacks, bean soup or lentil curries for lunch and dinner. Much more nutrition packed in there. thumb.gif

    I guess what I'm trying to say is continually analyze your diet and look for ways to improve that. That'll be the best way to get off your meds soon, I would think.

    Good luck and keep us posted! clap.gif

    -Anne
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited July 30, 2008
    Blood pressure is about sodium, mostly.

    You are most likely getting much more than you should. Pizza'll do it!

    The foods you eat should have no more mg of sodium than there are calories per serving. So, 100 calories per serving, you can have 100 mg of sodium. At least that's what I've heard. For HBP, could be lower. Ketchup has about 10x as much sodium as that formula allows, if I recall correctly.
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  • ElaineElaine Registered Users Posts: 3,532 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    I'm looking for vegan friendly websites, blogs, recipe blogs, etc... that I can tune into for inspiration, tips, info and recipes. Any favorite places you'd like to recommend?
    Elaine

    Comments and constructive critique always welcome!

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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    Elaine wrote:
    I'm looking for vegan friendly websites, blogs, recipe blogs, etc... that I can tune into for inspiration, tips, info and recipes. Any favorite places you'd like to recommend?


    fatfreevegan.com
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  • BugsmanBugsman Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited August 1, 2008
    The China Study
    Andy wrote:
    Lots to read, I recommend

    The China Study and
    Eat to Live

    Feel free to drop us a note and we'd love to send you a copy :)

    Now, as to practical use:

    I gave up eating animal products (save for a little half & half in my coffee, and I'm working on giving that up lol3.gif ) 6 months ago. That means, I don't eat: Cheese, Milk, Ice Cream, Butter, Poultry, Fish, Pork, Beef, Venison, Lizard, Snake or anything that is an animal or was an animal.

    I do eat: Whole Grains, Fruits, Nuts, Berries, Beans, and Fresh Vegetables. So, here's what I eat:

    Breakfasts: Granola with Fruit. Whole wheat toast with 100% real fruit jam. Raw fruits (grapefruit, oranges, berries, bananas, papayas, mangoes, melons, apples). Whole wheat pancakes with real maple syrup. Oatmeal with nuts and dried fruits.

    Lunches: Sandwiches? No problem. Whole Wheat pita is my staple, I can jam lots in there lol3.gif I stuff 'em with sprouts, lettuce, carrots, etc. In my fridge are many kinds of hummus - love the stuff. Also edamame salads. Bean salads. Black bean dip. I love veggie burritos (black beans, rice, salsa, onions, olives, lettuce, mmmmm). Lunch can also just be a huge salad, I might have a whole head of romaine lettuce with accompanying veggies. Peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat in a pinch works.

    Dinners: Ethnic food, ftw! Love Indian - vegetable pekora, samosas, biryani, vindaloo. Mexican (see lunch). Whole grain rices and wraps. Chile! We make 4 or 5 different kinds of vegetarian Chile. One pot bean dishes that are amazing. Italian! Whole grain pastas, with garlic, basil, olive oil. Mmmm. Of course, a huge salad, too. Now that it's summer, been eating a plate of fresh tomatoes, basil, cucumbers with Balsamic vinegar and some kosher salt (a pinch). Fresh corn on the cob. Grilling! Oh we grill corn, zucchini, carrots, portobello mushrooms, you name it.

    Snacks: raisins; sesame sticks; raw veggies; dried fruits; whole grain chips w/ homemade salsa.

    I eat all day long and I'm never hungry. I have lost 50lbs since January 1st 2007. I feel better than I have in 20 years.

    I don't miss much of anything, though I expect I'll add cheese back in my diet eventually (in moderation) because it just goes so well with so many things. We'll see.

    I totally stay away from all fast foods, and anything processed. No refined sugars or staches. No white bread, white rice, white flour, no processed carbohydrates.

    Does this help?

    Wow, sounds healthy - I've been trying to get away from meat, but not very successful. Would love to read.
  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    So - today marks two weeks with basically no animal products. The only animal in my system were a) a very minor amount of skim milk powder in a whole grain/oat cereal I had (which I no longer eat as I got something much better) and b) about a tablespoon of 1/2-1/2 in my coffee (which I am no longer having every day (coffee, that is)). I have had no refined sugar at all except for some in a whole grain wrap that I no longer buy as again I found something better.

    I am still very much a newbie at this. The weight is down about 9 pounds, and I have not yet gotten back on my bike (which I used to ride 30-50 miles a day sometimes - before our daughter was born).

    One hard part here in Waldorf is restaurants. Not that we go out a lot. Unfortunately, the choices here are quite limited for non-animal selections. Even if they have them, the choices are pretty much the same. Side salad (iceberg) with no dressing, cheese, or croutons along with a plate of steamed broccoli and sliced carrots. While this is "fine" it really gets to be a boring choice.

    So, week three begins. I feel better...much, much better. For the most part I no longer crave meats or sweets - though the cookies for sale at this place I was visiting last night smelled so good. But - I was hungry so I went home and ate my food and the craving passed quite easily.
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    David,

    Restaurants can be difficult anywhere. I sympathize.

    Keep it up!!! clap.gif
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  • LlywellynLlywellyn Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,186 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    For anyone in the DC/NOVA area, I'd highly recommend Sunflower Restaurant if you're really hankering to have a meal out and not cook for a night. Just look at their menu! Schmoo will testify this place is absolutely scrumptious. :D
  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    Llywellyn wrote:
    For anyone in the DC/NOVA area, I'd highly recommend Sunflower Restaurant if you're really hankering to have a meal out and not cook for a night. Just look at their menu! Schmoo will testify this place is absolutely scrumptious. :D

    OMG YES.

    The place is a living manifestation of the Vegan Fusion book.

    Actually we may be going there tonight or this weekend. :smo
  • LlywellynLlywellyn Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,186 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    schmoo wrote:
    OMG YES.

    The place is like a living manifestation of the Vegan Fusion book.

    Actually we may be going there tonight or this weekend! :smo
    I'm so ready go back. Hm, I must work my information networks so I can crash... naughty.gif

    Enjoy! Let me know what y'all try this time. :D
  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    Info source for NoVA / DC area: http://www.vegdc.com/restaurants.php
  • ElaineElaine Registered Users Posts: 3,532 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    DavidTO wrote:
    fatfreevegan.com

    Thanks! Looks like a great recipe source!
    Elaine

    Comments and constructive critique always welcome!

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  • Phil U.Phil U. Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited August 1, 2008
    Mike Lane wrote:
    Try being very strict with your diet for 6 weeks (maybe follow the ETL 6 week plan with no cheating) and see where that gets you.

    I did do that when I started out. Certainly couldn't hurt to do it again. I know it'd be best to be more faithful all the time.

    Thanks Anne, David, Ted for the info and encouragement.
  • Ann McRaeAnn McRae Registered Users Posts: 4,584 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    Really Delicious bean burger
    From "Canadian Living Special Edition: Market Fresh"

    Curried Lentil Cashew Burgers

    1/2c unsalted (we used raw) cashews
    2T veg oil
    4c sliced mushrooms
    1 onion, sliced
    1 clove garlic
    1/4t salt & pepper
    1 can lentils, drained & rinsed
    1/4c bread crumbs
    1T curry paste
    1/4c fresh coriander, chopped (cilantro)

    Toast cashews in skillet about 5 min, transfer to food processor.
    Heat 1 T oil, cook shrooms, onion, garlic, s&p about 5 min (no remaining liquid), add to food processor
    Add lentils & curry paste to processor. Pulse to combine. Add bread crumbs and coriander. Mix.Form into patties.
    Instructions have you frying the patties in 1T oil. We grilled them.
    They stick together nicely.
    YUM!!!!wings.gif
  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    A couple of questions:

    1. Soy milks - which kind? Silk?

    2. Breads - obviously whole grains, but what else? Looking at the ingredients to see what's inside shows a wide range of stuff..
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    RogersDA wrote:
    A couple of questions:

    1. Soy milks - which kind? Silk?

    2. Breads - obviously whole grains, but what else? Looking at the ingredients to see what's inside shows a wide range of stuff..

    1-silk is the biggest seller and best know brand.....it should be what has the best ingredients listed and what tastes best to you...

    2- I use only OAT BRAN bread.....no wheat...just oats......has been the best for my blood sugar.....but I waste more than I use......I buy one loaf from Aldis every month and throw half away when it gets moldy.
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    RogersDA wrote:
    A couple of questions:

    1. Soy milks - which kind? Silk?

    2. Breads - obviously whole grains, but what else? Looking at the ingredients to see what's inside shows a wide range of stuff..


    My vote on soy milk is none. Soy is not the best food in the world, IMO. Better off avoiding it. The milk is also a highly processed. The hormones that mimic female hormones, the lowering of your sperm count, the fact that unfermented soy has a compound in it that is bad for digestion and absorption of protein, and that it causes weight gain.

    I just don't use any milks of any kind. When I make the carrot/zucchini muffins I substitute some raw almond butter blended with water for the milk it calls for.

    And really, what do you need milk for? ear.gif

    Breads, be careful, a lot of whole grain commercial breads have high fructose corn syrup in them. Evil stuff. Stick to pita, if possible, since there's less of it. thumb.gif
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  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    If you are going to do Soy Milk, get unsweetened (not Silk). Trader Joes has an unsweetened SM, I think.
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  • schmooschmoo Registered Users Posts: 8,468 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    DavidTO wrote:
    If you are going to do Soy Milk, get unsweetened (not Silk). Trader Joes has an unsweetened SM, I think.

    Last time I checked (for a vegan muffin recipe) they didn't anymore. rolleyes1.gif

    ETA: Oh they have unsweetened but not un-fortified/unprocessed
  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    well, I was using a small amount with my morning cereal. Is all soy bad, or just the milk products?
  • DavidTODavidTO Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 19,160 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    RogersDA wrote:
    well, I was using a small amount with my morning cereal. Is all soy bad, or just the milk products?


    There are differing opinions on that. I think all unfermented forms of soy are bad, you could read The Whole Soy Story for more info on that. It's a surplus food foisted on us by an industry making soy oil and other commodity products. They have to do something with it, and so they take a poor food source and market it as a health food.

    Certainly a little bit here and there isn't gonna kill you. The big problem is that people substitute too much meat for too much soy, and most forms they eat aren't good for them.

    Tofu was used to suppress the sex drive of monks. deal.gif

    Anyway, I just don't think there's any good reason to use milk. Cereal is one of them. I would suggest that you're better off without cereal. And if you eat it, just have it dry with some water. But I'm kind of a hard ass when it comes to milk. Break yourself of the habit, I say, and cereal along with it. Have a smoothie instead. Or some steel cut oats. Most cereals are processed and crappy. Even the healthy ones.

    EDIT: A synopsis of the book I mentioned is here.
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  • LlywellynLlywellyn Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,186 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    I love my oatmeal, but I can't see having it every morning. I hate using my blender before 10am because it's LOUD, and for several reasons I do not want to invite my downstairs neighbor up to complain, so an early morning smoothie is out (I like it in the afternoons, anyway). Fruits and nuts here and there I could do, but again, this leaves little variety.

    So...what's for breakfast around here? I like my cereal and soymilk for convenience mainly. I mean, I'm still half asleep. :D I'd love ideas on a few other breakfast options, because as soon as I get into a rut with two options, I'll want to cheat. :nono

    I have made vegan muffins, but I really haven't found a recipe I like yet.
  • RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited August 2, 2008
    Llywellyn wrote:
    I love my oatmeal, but I can't see having it every morning. I hate using my blender before 10am because it's LOUD, and for several reasons I do not want to invite my downstairs neighbor up to complain, so an early morning smoothie is out (I like it in the afternoons, anyway). Fruits and nuts here and there I could do, but again, this leaves little variety.

    So...what's for breakfast around here? I like my cereal and soymilk for convenience mainly. I mean, I'm still half asleep. :D I'd love ideas on a few other breakfast options, because as soon as I get into a rut with two options, I'll want to cheat. :nono

    I have made vegan muffins, but I really haven't found a recipe I like yet.

    I am not (and never have been) a big breakfast person. Occasionally (in the past) we went out to a local place for breakfast (the sausage/egg/cheese/pancakes types of place). However, most mornings I would just eat something simple like a small bowl of cereal and have some coffee. Lately I have been eating a very small bowl of Ezekiel 4:9 whole grain cereal and still having a medium-sized cup of coffee. I usually supplement that with some form of fruit. During the day I will have a fruit for snack, and a lunch of whole-plant-based something; e..g. a veggie wrap.

    I do not yet have a juicer/blender. That will be corrected soon.

    I was not aware of the downside(s) to processed soy products.
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