Monthly Assignment #1: Bottles

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  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Major grins Posts: 1,751Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    dlscott56 wrote:
    Once you do this with the incandescent light and the gel do you need to set the white balance? Or shoot a 18% card?

    Setting the white balance for tungesten ought to be close. More accurate is to take a picture of the diffuser and white balance for it. If I have a diffused light source, I don't bother with a white/grey card for WB because I can go straight to the source.
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Major grins Posts: 1,751Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    Great work pathfinder and fashiznitsngrins. I'll get back to you in a day or two with detailed comments.
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Posts: 1,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    Here's the new improved set up and another try at controlling the light better.
    184350450-S.jpg
    184350060-L.jpg
  • Antonio CorreiaAntonio Correia Always learning Setubal - PortugalPosts: 6,181Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    It's late in the night now and I have to go to sleep, but here is my 1.st attempt to this assignment.
    It's the first try and believe me, I tried hard. I fought with the hole stuff for some hours ne_nau.gif
    The set-up and one picture. The other one is missing for the moment because I don't have any black cloth.
    The set-up photo is out of focus because it was switched off I did not notice.
    thumb.gif
    184353773-M.jpg 184354655-M.jpg
    All the best ! ... António Correia - Facebook
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    Dave,
    dlscott56 wrote:
    Here's the new improved set up and another try at controlling the light better.
    Wow, nice setup, you're getting into this stuff, aren't you? mwink.gif
    I presume you don't have any other light on when you actually shoot, correct?
    I like the last result! thumb.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
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  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 15, 2007
    It's late in the night now and I have to go to sleep, but here is my 1.st attempt to this assignment.
    It's the first try and believe me, I tried hard. I fought with the hole stuff for some hours ne_nau.gif
    The set-up and one picture. The other one is missing for the moment because I don't have any black cloth.
    The set-up photo is out of focus because it was switched off I did not notice.
    thumb.gif
    Thank you, nice entry! thumb.gif
    One thing I remember from the book is that you need to control the stray light. In your case you need to block the light from the flash that goes outside your diffuser. Please check Dave's setup, see how he blocks most of the light with his cut foam board? deal.gif

    HTH
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
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  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter Posts: 14,043Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 15, 2007
    Here are some of my reflection shots - shot with a 20D and a 45mm lens f8 1/200th ISO 100

    184391433-L.jpg


    184390793-L.jpg


    184390988-L.jpg

    The set up is shown here... Black felt background about 16x20inches about 18 9nches back from the bottle on my black speaker stand. 16x30 softbox on the left facing the bottle, and a silver Impact reflector immediately on the right of the bottle. Softbox triggered by a flash on the 20D.

    184391279-L.jpg
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Posts: 1,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 16, 2007
    Nikolai wrote:
    Wow, nice setup, you're getting into this stuff, aren't you? mwink.gif

    thumb.gif
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Posts: 1,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 16, 2007
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 16, 2007
    dlscott56 wrote:
    set
    I see you're getting into the collections..:-)thumb.gif
    How about adding liquid and using colored glass (please see the lead post for the exact assignments)?

    BTW, it looks like you're not getting enough lightne_nau.gif To fix that (provided you don't have another light in the room), you can use long/blub exposure and manually trigger the flash as many times as needed. deal.gif

    Another thing to try with the light bg is to put flash behind the objects bu in fron of the white screen, pointing it in the same direction as camera does. This way you may get a might brighter bg...
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • dups41dups41 Big grins Posts: 83Registered Users Big grins
    edited August 16, 2007
    184700301-O.jpg

    hmmmmm... amarula.

    5D, 50mm f/8 1/160 ISO400. SB28 1/2 power about 1yd behind diffusion panel (foam board)

    And the setup is shown below.

    --Andrew

    184700305-S.jpg
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 16, 2007
    Andrew,
    dups41 wrote:
    hmmmmm... amarula.
    5D, 50mm f/8 1/160 ISO400. SB28 1/2 power about 1yd behind diffusion panel (foam board)
    And the setup is shown below.
    --Andrew
    Thank you, appreciate sharing the picture and the setup. thumb.gif

    I think the biggest issue with this setup is that you have a lot of white in front. Technically for this type of shot you only want to have bright back diffuser and the rest of the room in a total darkness/blackness. Otherwise, as your shot shows, you get a lot of unvanted reflections...thumb.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 16, 2007
    Jim,
    pathfinder wrote:
    Here are some of my reflection shots - shot with a 20D and a 45mm lens f8 1/200th ISO 100

    The set up is shown here... Black felt background about 16x20inches about 18 9nches back from the bottle on my black speaker stand. 16x30 softbox on the left facing the bottle, and a silver Impact reflector immediately on the right of the bottle. Softbox triggered by a flash on the 20D.
    Great shots, thank you! (quite a wine collection, too:-) thumb.gif
    Nice touch with the ribbon. mwink.gif
    I like the black reflecting stand, too:-) thumb.gif

    #2 seem to have an exposure issue, the b/g is much brighter than the other two and is plainly visible and distracting...

    I must also admit that a frontal flash kinda spoils it for me, I would rather prefer to have the side light only.

    HTH
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • pathfinderpathfinder Drive By Digital Shooter Posts: 14,043Super Moderators moderator
    edited August 16, 2007
    ne_nau.gif
    Nikolai wrote:
    Great shots, thank you! (quite a wine collection, too:-) thumb.gif
    Nice touch with the ribbon. mwink.gif

    I just pulled some bottles out from under the stairs - probably been there for years. The green ribbon was part of a Christmas gift - so that bottle is at least 8 months old or 20 months perhaps.
    I like the black reflecting stand, too:-) thumb.gif

    The speaker stand was just a convenient height. The black shiny surface was a freebie, that I accidently wandered into.
    #2 seem to have an exposure issue, the b/g is much brighter than the other two and is plainly visible and distracting...

    By #2, I assume you mean the bottle with the green ribbon. Its background reads about as high as 19,14, 11 on the left side, but 5,3,2 is more typical. The other images have a background reading of 0,0,0 The bottle is so black that if the background is 0,0,0, the bottle almost disappears into the background. The background in #2 does not seem that much brighter on my calibrated monitorne_nau.gif Even readings of 10,10,10 will print black.
    I must also admit that a frontal flash kinda spoils it for me, I would rather prefer to have the side light only.

    I shot a few frames that way, but the labels were way too dark for my taste, Nick. I guess I could have angled the softbox to light the front more, but that then shed more light onto the background as well.

    This was just my first run at this, I may take another pass in a few days. I'm still learningthumb.gif
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 17, 2007
    pathfinder wrote:
    ...The bottle is so black that if the background is 0,0,0, the bottle almost disappears into the background.
    With all due respect, it's not gonna happen. deal.gif
    The bottle may be black, but with those two light sources on its sides it will stand out...:ivar
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Major grins Posts: 1,751Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 17, 2007
    pathfinder wrote:
    I should mention the flash I used on the camera was an MT-24ex, which has two flash lamps, that I used on either side of my lens to help eliminate reflections in the center of the bottles. I had been using this flash for macro on my 20D so I just grabbed it and swapped the macro lens for the 85mm lens.

    Nice job on your shots. The MT-24ex has mostly done a really good job of controlling reflections off the bottles. There are only a couple shots in your set where I can see it.

    Your post is a nice entry into talking about lighting labels. Light, Science and Magic has a rather complicated setup using gobos for lighting labels in their discussion of specular lighting (keep in mind that I have version 2 and haven't picked up version 3 yet). However for most botte shots the easy strategy is to hide the reflection behind the label. If you point a small light source (say a flashlight) at the bottle and move it around you can easily find the lighting angles where its reflection in the glass is covered by the label. My preferred way to light the label is with flash using a small diffuser which creates a lightsource around 2-3 times the size of a flash head. This, actually, is a perfect use for some of the small commerical flash diffusers. I use either a Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer or a home made Better Bounce Card made out of white foam. Put is on a stand as close as you can get it to the camera and then move the stand up and down until the reflection of the flash is not visible in the glass. Pathfinder's shots serve as good examples of this, but I'll try to shoot one of my own this weekend.
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Major grins Posts: 1,751Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 17, 2007
    dlscott56 wrote:
    Here's the new improved set up and another try at controlling the light better.
    184350060-S.jpg

    There you go, Dave. Nicely done. Creating even light sources is harder than you'd think. There's still some behind the neck of the bottle, but I think you have gotten close enough that you can correct for it in Photoshop.

    If you want to take the next step in improving your light, you'll need a second diffuser which you put between your flash and your mask. If all goes well, I'll be posting a setup shot for that this weekend.
  • QuicklebeQuicklebe Big grins Posts: 25Registered Users Big grins
    edited August 18, 2007
    Carafe
    185070757-L.jpg



    Here is my offering. I had a hard time trying to get distinct edges and a white background. I used a flash behind the diffusers. I ended up using two diffusers to try and get the background an even white.
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 18, 2007
    Quicklebe wrote:
    Here is my offering. I had a hard time trying to get distinct edges and a white background. I used a flash behind the diffusers. I ended up using two diffusers to try and get the background an even white.
    Thank you! thumb.gif
    To get distinct edges, you need to make sure your white background is only big enough to cover camera's FOV, the rest should be as dark as possible. deal.gif
    HTH
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • Antonio CorreiaAntonio Correia Always learning Setubal - PortugalPosts: 6,181Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 18, 2007
    I find the job with the black back ground more difficult because I haven't any large enough surface to cover the hole bottle.
    I hope to be able to have one, during the coming week.
    I post here the set up and two photos.
    The flash is covered by white tracing paper.
    Between the flash and the back of the bottle I inserted the round reflector which I was not able to hold while taking this picture.
    Curiously, I spent about 1 hour setting up and shooting. Then I got enought and watched TV for some time. I made my best shots, just before going to sleep when everything was arranged.:D
    The large shot is similar to the 1.st one I posted but a little better and I thought I could share it with you.
    The second photo is more like: "The wrong light for the labeled bottle"ne_nau.gif

    I will try some more today, Saturday with the same setup, or similar.
    Now, I have to go and get some empty bottles, because there is none in the house ! mwink.gif

    185089943-S.jpg 185089126-M.jpg 185089219-Th.jpg
    ____
    185116141-S.jpg

    185116657-M.jpg 185115569-M.jpg
    ____
    185256720-S.jpg 185255445-M.jpg

    The travel bag was opened as the inside is all black. So, I used it as background.
    The flash was handhold at our right behind the bottles. The reflexion on the left of the bottles is from a white card not shown in the setup. :D

    Not terribly sharp ! Must repeat ! eek7.gif
    All the best ! ... António Correia - Facebook
  • D.RodgersD.Rodgers cyclops Posts: 212Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 18, 2007
    Country kool Aid
    ..
  • Antonio CorreiaAntonio Correia Always learning Setubal - PortugalPosts: 6,181Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 19, 2007
    185455867-S.jpg
    185456060-M.jpg 185089126-M.jpg

    185495704-M.jpg ... 185479350-M.jpg
    185495341-M.jpg ... 185481769-M.jpg
    All the best ! ... António Correia - Facebook
  • NikolaiNikolai Darth SLR Posts: 19,033Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 19, 2007
    Antonio,
    Great entries!Please excuse the briefness, I just wanted to recognize your input. Very busy this weekend, two large shoots and two deadlines. I'll get back on this later... thumb.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
    Star*Explorer: on Dgrin, home; Master Class: open;
    Class is in session, My Facebook, @DarthSLR, #NiksTips
    member: NAPP, PPA, partner: Adobe
    Comprehending life, universe and everything - one pixel at a time
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Posts: 1,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 19, 2007
    Nikolai wrote:
    I see you're getting into the collections..:-)thumb.gif
    How about adding liquid and using colored glass (please see the lead post for the exact assignments)?

    185657579-L.jpg
    Nikolai wrote:
    BTW, it looks like you're not getting enough lightne_nau.gif To fix that (provided you don't have another light in the room), you can use long/blub exposure and manually trigger the flash as many times as needed. deal.gif

    Another thing to try with the light bg is to put flash behind the objects bu in fron of the white screen, pointing it in the same direction as camera does. This way you may get a might brighter bg...

    I'll give the multiple flash a try.
  • QuicklebeQuicklebe Big grins Posts: 25Registered Users Big grins
    edited August 20, 2007
    Wine glass - 2nd try
    Here are two pictures and a set up picture of lighting from behind. I'm using white foam board as a base. How can I lighten the base more to match the background? I tried using a light from overhead but that caused reflections that I did not want. Using a reflector board from front - by the camera - did not seem to make a difference.


    185804380-M.jpg




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    3238035#185804380-L-LB3238035#185806090-L-LB

    3238035#185804456-L-LB

    3238035#185806090-L-LB
  • Antonio CorreiaAntonio Correia Always learning Setubal - PortugalPosts: 6,181Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 20, 2007
    I find the results by Quicklebe very interesting.:D
    He used the "reverse", the "opposite", the "antonym" - if I can say so - of my way: instead of trying to hide the light from the camera side, he did it on the other side of the target.
    This way, the ambient reflected light is contained.thumb.gif

    thumb.gif
    All the best ! ... António Correia - Facebook
  • dups41dups41 Big grins Posts: 83Registered Users Big grins
    edited August 20, 2007
    Nikolai wrote:
    I think the biggest issue with this setup is that you have a lot of white in front. Technically for this type of shot you only want to have bright back diffuser and the rest of the room in a total darkness/blackness. Otherwise, as your shot shows, you get a lot of unvanted reflections...thumb.gif

    Thanks for the advice Nikolai. Here is another attempt with more effort put into reflection control. The foil labels were tricky headscratch.gif. This bottle didn't seem to work too well with just a bright back diffuser, the front of the bottle was dark with very little detail. So I tried instead to create a surrounding of unbroken white.


    185870181-O.jpg

    185870182-S.jpg

    I hacked together a home brew softbox with several sheets of thin paper spread evenly throughout a packing box. Here is an attempt with diffused back lighting only:

    185881800-O.jpg

    185882231-S.jpg

    --Andrew
  • dlscott56dlscott56 Major grins Posts: 1,320Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 20, 2007
    LiquidAir wrote:
    As for trying to get light through the thicker parts of the pitcher, I think this particular pitcher is a great candidate for combining refractive and reflective lighting. If you have a second flash, try setting up a second diffuser to the right of the pitcher. You'll also want a mask for this one but it doens't have to be 2:3. Just make sure that the lit area on the diffuser is at least as high as the pitcher itself and preferrably a bit higher. As for flash power, I'll keep the reflection fairly dark so it doesn't compete with your main light.

    I tried using the second flash for the pitcher shot. I used Incandescent lighting for the background, adjusted the white balance off the back diffuser, added a gel to the flash to try and match the background lighting, and hand held the flash behind a second diffuser on the side.
    186137960-L.jpg

    Setup shots:
    186137435-S.jpg
    background lighting:
    186137660-S.jpg

    hand held flash with gel
    186137872-S.jpg
  • LiquidAirLiquidAir Major grins Posts: 1,751Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 20, 2007
    dlscott56 wrote:
    I tried using the second flash for the pitcher shot. I used Incandescent lighting for the background, adjusted the white balance off the back diffuser, added a gel to the flash to try and match the background lighting, and hand held the flash behind a second diffuser on the side.
    186137960-S.jpg

    That's great. With the two lights you have painted a complete picture of your pitcher. If you were selling these, your customers would know exactly what they were getting. It looks like you have a slight color mismatch between your lights--that's hard to avoid because the gels aren't perfect and incandescent lamps change color as they age. One thing to try when you are trying to get a good match is changing bulbs That said, at the end of the day, there is a limit to how well you can do with house lighting.
  • Antonio CorreiaAntonio Correia Always learning Setubal - PortugalPosts: 6,181Registered Users Major grins
    edited August 21, 2007
    All the best ! ... António Correia - Facebook
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