missed this earlier, but I just noticed that the new iMac lets you use a second display in extended desktop mode, rather than just mirror image. This is huge. The iMac is now a serious desktop computer and no longer a lightweight geared toward the "average" consumer.
How far away can vmware be for this? I've been using it for years to run windows on linux. Very very stable and nice for the sort of thing you have in mind. Even OK for photoshop, actually.
I think this is likely to be a really nice product. If I were actually shopping, though, I'd wait just long enough to get to play with one at an Apple Store and see how well Photoshop runs under Rosetta. Adobe will fix that eventually with a native version, but what about the meantime?
Macbooks also look nice. Wonder how long a wait for 17"
Anybody watched keynotes yesterday? Mighty interesting...
They have laptops now with intel processors, and build in webcam. Cool I would say. I just bought me another laptop (15 inch powerbook) six months ago, so no intel laptop for this one here. (But then I like the mac so much, so it is not really a problem... I wonder how much new software you will need for intel...)
Rutt's right, but at the same time, the unit's 2x faster than the PPC iMac. Even if PS takes a 50% speed hit under Rosetta, which I doubt it'll be that much, you're still as well off as you would have been with a PPC. PS can't be too far behind with a Universal version of PS.
IMO, it's either that or wait 9 months or more for rev. 2. That's a long time to be Macless. That's a step below feckless. Blecch.
Rutt's right, but at the same time, the unit's 2x faster than the PPC iMac. Even if PS takes a 50% speed hit under Rosetta, which I doubt it'll be that much, you're still as well off as you would have been with a PPC. PS can't be too far behind with a Universal version of PS.
IMO, it's either that or wait 9 months or more for rev. 2. That's a long time to be Macless. That's a step below feckless. Blecch.
I just said to wait long enough to actually be able to play with one a little, not 9 whole months.
I understood what you were saying, even if I wasn't clear in my reply.
Gubbs, you can also still buy a G5 iMac, BTW.
Same for the Powerbooks. Still available.
There is a little matter of personal self discipline involved as well. I have this brand new 17inch PB, 1.6GHz, 2GB, the whole 9 yards that I got because Apple failed to be able to fix the simplest thing in my old one (keyboard lights) in a timely fashion and I was a pest after they had it for 3 weeks and couldn't say when it would be done. So I'm wondering how to time the sale of this one and purchase of a MacBook. I use the big machine for serious PS work, but I do love having a nice notebook and I do love that 17inch screen.
I bought the first series of the iMac G5, and I must say that I paid learning money... That is never again buy a new machine in the first batch...
Wait till they get on the second batch...
Both the iMac G5 and powerbook 15 inch are very good machines...
I was so lucky to get an apple inside tour in apple Headquarters in october...
I bought the first series of the iMac G5, and I must say that I paid learning money... That is never again buy a new machine in the first batch...
Wait till they get on the second batch...
Both the iMac G5 and powerbook 15 inch are very good machines...
I was so lucky to get an apple inside tour in apple Headquarters in october...
Yeah, the smart thing to do is wait just a little bit. That's why I was asking about Andy and that MacBook. We need a guinea pig.
Yeah, the smart thing to do is wait just a little bit. That's why I was asking about Andy and that MacBook. We need a guinea pig.
I was going to say the same thing. We're talking not only about a new model, here, but a completely new release of all the software except the stuff running under a completely new emulator. That is just fertile ground for various problems.
Apple has done it before successfully and I have no reason to believe it's not going to work this time but the smart money is on waiting at least a few months to see how the early adopters do.
I waited on buying a mac mini for my in-laws until I found out whether or not they were going to introduce an intel version. I was split on what I'd do if they did -- do I buy the known-reliable package that is already out of date, or do I buy the new one that presumably will have a longer life but likely have bleeding-edge issues. Lucklily Apple didn't make me make the choice :-).
(I still can't believe how small the mini is. Eesh.)
Yeah, the smart thing to do is wait just a little bit. That's why I was asking about Andy and that MacBook. We need a guinea pig.
Bucking the trend (Ladbrokes stock has just tumbled ) I *am not* buying the MacBook on Day 1. I will wait and see how the new software and platform performs
Bucking the trend (Ladbrokes stock has just tumbled ) I *am not* buying the MacBook on Day 1. I will wait and see how the new software and platform performs
Damn! Who are we going to get to do this now? DavidTO talks a good game, but it's all just talk. Do as he does not as tells you to do. If not Andy, who?
Damn! Who are we going to get to do this now? DavidTO talks a good game, but it's all just talk. Do as he does not as tells you to do. If not Andy, who?
Bucking the trend (Ladbrokes stock has just tumbled ) I *am not* buying the MacBook on Day 1. I will wait and see how the new software and platform performs
Whew, I just reread and decoded this message. Not Day 1. But how long can he wait after Day 1? Day 7?
Seems like a good thing to have a pool on, doesn't it.
I am curious what it will take to boot into Windows, not that I want to, but Garmin GPS integration is virtually non-existant on the mac. It would be cool access that software and not need more hardware.
Garmin, a major designer and manufacturer of GPS systems, announced that it will immediately begin to make its line of GPS and mobile electronics devices compatible with Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. According to the press release, a Mac version of Garmin's Training Center software for workouts will be available this spring. Also in the spring, it promised to provide Mac compatibility for the interface of www.MotionBased.com, which translates GPS data into performance analysis, online mapping, and route sharing for endurance and outdoor athletes. The release also notes:
By the end of 2006, Garmin intends to have made all its popular hardware and software applications Mac OS X compatible. This includes the ability to load MapSource map data to Garmin units via a Mac, as well as waypoint and trip planning applications. Additionally, the Garmin nRoute application will allow Powerbook and iBook users to turn their laptop into a powerful street navigation tool with Garmin's GPS 10 or GPS 18 sensors.
all reports indicate that the Apple party line is "we won't support that," which is a lot different from "it won't happen."
Also, a News.com story quotes Apple marketing VP Phil Schiller saying that there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac, followed by the money quote.... "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." [emphesis mine -sjv]
Trust me, vmware. That's what we want to solve this problem. Put windows in a nice little box that we can pop up when we really need it and which can't do any real damage.
all reports indicate that the Apple party line is "we won't support that," which is a lot different from "it won't happen."
Also, a News.com story quotes Apple marketing VP Phil Schiller saying that there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac, followed by the money quote.... "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." [emphesis mine -sjv]
It'll be interesting to see how that compares with the laughable commentary from Jobs in the keynote. SPECint and SPECfp? What was it he called them? "The most important benchmark in the industry" was it? :bs I'll take "SPECandy" here as a bit more relevant to us.
SmugMug Sorcerer - Engineering Team Champion for Commerce, Finance, Security, and Data Support http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
It'll be interesting to see how that compares with the laughable commentary from Jobs in the keynote. SPECint and SPECfp? What was it he called them? "The most important benchmark in the industry" was it? :bs I'll take "SPECandy" here as a bit more relevant to us.
Hey man, those SPEC things are very important. I've worked on both sides: in industry trying to make high performance systems and trying to improve the quality of the benchmarks themselves so they really do measure important features of the systems. There is a huge amount of effort on both sides of this and it really has been a good thing for computing to be able to make head-to-head comparisons in fundemental performance between systems.
That's the problem though, these are basic low level measures of performance and there are lots of details Steve didn't bore us with (though you can find out all you want and more at [ur=http://www.spec.org] the spec web site[/url]. In the case of these particular computer and this particular audience, there really are only two relevant questions:
How well does current Photoshop run under Rosetta?
How long before there is a native, "universal", version?
The same sort of questions are probably relevant for video editing and other performance sensitive applications. The bad thing that could happen is that even with the much faster (and multi-core) CPUs, the Rosetta translation hit will be bad enough that people switching from PCs (Gubbs, e.g.) will be disappointed until the native versions of their favorite programs are available.
Waiting until the answer to the first question is available won't really change when you'll actually be able to get one of these machines by very long. As soon as people get their hands on these machines, these answers will become available. Perhaps by that time Adobe and the like will have announced their roadmap for making "universal" versions. Order a machine then and get it in a week or so (or bring home from the Apple Store or a dealer the same day.)
I've had a yellow flag out for new Mac notebook purchases since last spring. This machine is about to change that. It's only a question of a few weeks now.
haha, I didn't mean to imply SPEC wasn't important, just that the two test they chose to scream about weren't. Especially since I serious doubt the claim that the ppc compiler was "the best one available". It *may* have been xlC, but if so I seriously doubt it had the right options enabled at build time... I actually suspect it was gcc. I'd like to see the full, submitted, accepted for publish report for the runs they used for that claim. Of course I doubt we ever will, cause I really think they skewed the results in their favor. And I also think they did the G5 runs in 32bit mode... which really doesn't help their "performance per watt" metric at all... having all that unused silicon.
If they had used say SPECviewperf8.1, or SPECapc for Maya, or SPEComp2001, or SPECjbb2000 (just because I have fond memories of the project when we created it, and I don't think SPECjbb2006 is ready yet) Then I might not have laughed so hard. But as it is, I'm reminded of the quote about there being there kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
SmugMug Sorcerer - Engineering Team Champion for Commerce, Finance, Security, and Data Support http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
After nearly a month of being without a desktop I just couldn't wait any longer. So, I threw caution to the wind and ordered a 20" dual core imac which should be with me within 2 weeks. I'll let you know how I get on!
Comments
Quote Source TUAW
gubbs.smugmug.com
Macbooks also look nice. Wonder how long a wait for 17"
They have laptops now with intel processors, and build in webcam. Cool I would say. I just bought me another laptop (15 inch powerbook) six months ago, so no intel laptop for this one here. (But then I like the mac so much, so it is not really a problem... I wonder how much new software you will need for intel...)
http://photocatseyes.net
http://www.zazzle.com/photocatseyes
Get it.
Rutt's right, but at the same time, the unit's 2x faster than the PPC iMac. Even if PS takes a 50% speed hit under Rosetta, which I doubt it'll be that much, you're still as well off as you would have been with a PPC. PS can't be too far behind with a Universal version of PS.
IMO, it's either that or wait 9 months or more for rev. 2. That's a long time to be Macless. That's a step below feckless. Blecch.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I just said to wait long enough to actually be able to play with one a little, not 9 whole months.
Andy, got your MacBook order in?
I understood what you were saying, even if I wasn't clear in my reply.
Gubbs, you can also still buy a G5 iMac, BTW.
Same for the Powerbooks. Still available.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
There is a little matter of personal self discipline involved as well. I have this brand new 17inch PB, 1.6GHz, 2GB, the whole 9 yards that I got because Apple failed to be able to fix the simplest thing in my old one (keyboard lights) in a timely fashion and I was a pest after they had it for 3 weeks and couldn't say when it would be done. So I'm wondering how to time the sale of this one and purchase of a MacBook. I use the big machine for serious PS work, but I do love having a nice notebook and I do love that 17inch screen.
Jeez, make me an offer.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I bought the first series of the iMac G5, and I must say that I paid learning money... That is never again buy a new machine in the first batch...
Wait till they get on the second batch...
Both the iMac G5 and powerbook 15 inch are very good machines...
I was so lucky to get an apple inside tour in apple Headquarters in october...
http://photocatseyes.net
http://www.zazzle.com/photocatseyes
Yeah, the smart thing to do is wait just a little bit. That's why I was asking about Andy and that MacBook. We need a guinea pig.
I was going to say the same thing. We're talking not only about a new model, here, but a completely new release of all the software except the stuff running under a completely new emulator. That is just fertile ground for various problems.
Apple has done it before successfully and I have no reason to believe it's not going to work this time but the smart money is on waiting at least a few months to see how the early adopters do.
I waited on buying a mac mini for my in-laws until I found out whether or not they were going to introduce an intel version. I was split on what I'd do if they did -- do I buy the known-reliable package that is already out of date, or do I buy the new one that presumably will have a longer life but likely have bleeding-edge issues. Lucklily Apple didn't make me make the choice :-).
(I still can't believe how small the mini is. Eesh.)
jimf@frostbytes.com
Bucking the trend (Ladbrokes stock has just tumbled
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Damn! Who are we going to get to do this now? DavidTO talks a good game, but it's all just talk. Do as he does not as tells you to do. If not Andy, who?
Rutt, didn't you know? I am the puppetmaster!
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Whew, I just reread and decoded this message. Not Day 1. But how long can he wait after Day 1? Day 7?
Seems like a good thing to have a pool on, doesn't it.
It's true!
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from http://www.macintouch.com/sf2006/products.html
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
all reports indicate that the Apple party line is "we won't support that," which is a lot different from "it won't happen."
Also, a News.com story quotes Apple marketing VP Phil Schiller saying that there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac, followed by the money quote.... "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." [emphesis mine -sjv]
my words, my "pro"pictures, my "fun" pictures, my videos.
If you guessed today, January 11th, 2006 - YOU WIN!!!!!!
bumped it to 2gb ram, and the 7200rpm 100gb drive. Ships in Feb.
Seriously, did y'all think I'd not be getting this?
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Perfect, it was just what I hoping for. Andy, the first thing you're going to do is run those FM photoshop performence tests, right? Awesome.
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baby steps till february...
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
It'll be interesting to see how that compares with the laughable commentary from Jobs in the keynote. SPECint and SPECfp?
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Nice Shirt! Do you have Apple undies, too? :uhoh
Get yours, now
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Hey man, those SPEC things are very important. I've worked on both sides: in industry trying to make high performance systems and trying to improve the quality of the benchmarks themselves so they really do measure important features of the systems. There is a huge amount of effort on both sides of this and it really has been a good thing for computing to be able to make head-to-head comparisons in fundemental performance between systems.
That's the problem though, these are basic low level measures of performance and there are lots of details Steve didn't bore us with (though you can find out all you want and more at [ur=http://www.spec.org] the spec web site[/url]. In the case of these particular computer and this particular audience, there really are only two relevant questions:
The same sort of questions are probably relevant for video editing and other performance sensitive applications. The bad thing that could happen is that even with the much faster (and multi-core) CPUs, the Rosetta translation hit will be bad enough that people switching from PCs (Gubbs, e.g.) will be disappointed until the native versions of their favorite programs are available.
Waiting until the answer to the first question is available won't really change when you'll actually be able to get one of these machines by very long. As soon as people get their hands on these machines, these answers will become available. Perhaps by that time Adobe and the like will have announced their roadmap for making "universal" versions. Order a machine then and get it in a week or so (or bring home from the Apple Store or a dealer the same day.)
I've had a yellow flag out for new Mac notebook purchases since last spring. This machine is about to change that. It's only a question of a few weeks now.
If they had used say SPECviewperf8.1, or SPECapc for Maya, or SPEComp2001, or SPECjbb2000 (just because I have fond memories of the project when we created it, and I don't think SPECjbb2006 is ready yet) Then I might not have laughed so hard. But as it is, I'm reminded of the quote about there being there kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
gubbs.smugmug.com