Photoshelter vs SmugMug
So, after looking over the Photoshelter a tad more, it appears that they may be a direct competitor to SmugMug??? However, SmugMug has more customized features.....am I on track. Regardless, the Smugvault is a good thing and a great addition to the archival process. Thanks!!!
I'm interested in finding easy ways for clients to downoad tiffs and psd files.
Even if I have SmugVault, is it true that clients can still only download JPG versions of my images on SmugMug?
SmugVault is only accessible by the logged in account holder, correct?
If so, does anyone know of a lowtech-user-friendly web-based solution for ftp transfer?
Also, Andy: how do you plan to move all of your old images?
What if I just want to do one big dump of my older files just to get them up into a secure backup (like JungleDisk). I don't want to mess around with getting them in the right gallery, or linked to the proper file. Just up and safe. You have a recommendation for that? Make one gallery per year or something like that?
I've uploaded the .CR2 file for this image twice. It's not sticking. The others in the gallery all seem to work. What kind of bone head am I being? I must be doing something wrong, the others worked smooth as silk.
Okay, what this thread needs (or the help section) is a step-by-step tutorial to get us started. Seriously. It's not all obvious.
The reason we haven't done that is because we expect people to use SmugVault in completely different ways. Here are the first few steps though:
1 - Sign up by going to your Control Panel, to the Settings tab and clicking "Get one" at the bottom
2 - After you have signed up with Amazon and activated it, just go to any gallery and upload anything. JPEGs, GIFs, PNGs and most video files will still upload normally. The rest will automatically be stored in your SmugVault and appear right away in your galleries.
It's important to remember a few things:
First, you can turn on or off rendering of JPEGs for RAW-type files and original video storage in your Control Panel.
Second, bundling is done automatically if the filenames match or manually if you select "add archives" from the <photo tools> menu.
Third, you can browse your archives either through the regular gallery interface or through the SmugVault browsing interface, accessible from the <gallery tools> menu or directly from the Control Panel.
1 - Priceless photos forever. There are some photos that you simply can't bear to lose. Storing the RAW files on just your home computer keeps you awake at night.
But you don't want to just dump 5,000 RAW files onto some cloud storage and try to remember which ones are which by filenames alone. You want visual browsing and you want them integrated directly into SmugMug right alongside your JPEGs.
2 - Temporary emergency storage. My wife is shooting three weddings this summer. She shoots in RAW. She absolutely cannot lose the wedding photos. So she gets back from shooting a wedding and dumps the RAWs onto her computer.
But editing them takes weeks or even months, so she wants to clear off her cards for the next wedding. Does she dare leave the RAWs only on a single computer before she has edited them and produced JPEGs to put on SmugMug?
Instead, she puts all the RAWs on SmugVault for a month until she is done editing. Then she removes the RAWs that she doesn't like, thanks to visual browsing, and keeps the rest on SmugVault for at least a few months.
3 - Original video storage. I only make a few home videos each year, but they are very precious to me. SmugMug does a great job making them viewable in HD on the Web, but has to lower the bitrate in order to do it. Well, what happens in 10 years when the full video at original bitrate can easily be displayed on the Web? I want those original video files stored until that time.
4 - Contracts. A pro photographer has contracts for each event he/she does. So the Pro stores the PDF right in the gallery with the photos from the event.
Really, there are plenty of possibilities. We're not sure how it will be used, we just think it's awesome and adaptable.
A bit too pricey and limited
Yes, it is a fantastic deal when compared to a lot of services out there, and the convenience of doing through the same place where most of my work goes for display is certainly very attractive.
But I signed up with Carbonite a few months ago @ $50/year for unlimited storage of any size files. So everything goes there, my gigabyte panos along with my video work, some of which are also over 512mb. It's slow, but it is automatic, I just specify the folders I want backed up. I'd thought I would want something more like archival storage rather than a plain backup of my working files, but with with cheap hard disks, I see no reason for not keeping everything backed up instead of off loading some to historical archives.
Still and all, a great addition to your site,
Brandon Smith http://redwoodtwig.com
Sony A7r4 with a selection of Rokinon Cine primes that I'm really enjoying learning how to use.
I want to ensure I understand the difference between the vault and the "normal" smugmug storage.
When I upload my jpgs to my site the full sized jpgs are stored on the site for the price I pay per year [pro account] and could be viewed as a backup to my HD of all jpgs. Correct?
The vault enables me to upload RAW files and other files normally not permitted on the site. Therefore, any file I do not need or do not have the RAW file [in the case of scanned images] could be considered backed up in my galleries. Correct?
Thanks!
frank
dr.Frank
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Psalms 19:1
We now need to not destroy it and capture its beauty for all to behold.
Great idea - way overpriced IMHO.
I was asking for this feature for months ... (to upload RAW files as a backup) ... so the feature was a welcome addition, but I had no idea it would be priced so high.
I calculated it would cost me about $5,000 per year just for my RAW files - given my current data and shooting 300GB for the next 4-5 years. I also did not think that paying a premium price per month for disk space would also require additional upload costs, additional download costs and an additional monthly recurring charge. Wow. No wonder the example they quote is only for 2GB. I shot 20GB at my last single afternoon event.
I thought the feature would be a flat yearly rate just like the JPG files are now. The only difference in RAW & JPG is the file size. I thought the PRO account would just have a higher annual fee to also store unlimited RAW files. Obvioulsy without paying for uploads and downloads as the SmugMug JPG files work now. I guess it is for people who shoot infrequently, or only want to backup a very small portion of their data, or only use this service for brief periods of time - (during a vacation) - until you get back and can retrieve the files.
But for this brief vacation ... here is what I calculate:
For example, 100GB during the whole vacation.
Upload = 100 x .30 = $ 30
Keep for 1 month = 100 x .22 = $ 22
Recurring charge = $1 (perhaps they charge every month whether you use any space at all?
Retrieve when you return = 100 x .51 = $ 51
So for a temporary use to keep files safe for a trip ... it would cost
30 + 22 + 1 + 51 = $104
Some may think it is well worth the cost to protect 100GB of RAW data. I think that $104 would pay for a whole year of 300GB disk space from a number of web hosting companies. And at a fixed cost with unlimited use.
You can get web hosting accounts with 300 to 1,500 GB disk space included for about 5 to 8 dollars per month. Some accounts start at 300GB and they give you 2GB every week you stay a customer. That means the disk space grows 104GB per year at no additional charge. This is a smaller amount than I shoot every year (about 300GB) but I could get multiple accounts if I went that route. And hosting companies just charge per month - not also for putting and retrieving the data. Most also include one domain name registration per year. The hosting accounts that I looked into that say "unlimited disk space" will not allow data files to be stored there - only the web pages are unlimited in size - so they are not an option.
I'd love to use this vault feature but in my opinion, with all the other options available, it is so overpriced to be out of the question. And imagine losing your data - the insurance purpose for having a vault - and then to restore your files - they ding you additional download fees. Ouch. If I had 300GB there, and paid $90 to upload it - and been paying $66 every month to keep it safe - and lost all my data - to restore it would cost an additional $153? Maybe my math is off ... but it seems like a lot of money when you can buy a 500GB drive for $99.
I decided that it is the best value, and most secure, for me to buy external drives (both remote Network and USB) and store them in both remote and safe fireproof places on a regular basis.
If they change the vault feature to be a fixed price, and unlimited space with no access fees (like the JPG are), then I will certainly reconsider. It is a must to have secure backups, but it also needs to be cost-effective.
I was asking for this feature for months ... (to upload RAW files as a backup) ... so the feature was a welcome addition, but I had no idea it would be priced so high.
[ stuff removed ]
there, and paid $90 to upload it - and been paying $66 every month to keep it safe - and lost all my data - to restore it would cost an additional $153? Maybe my math is off ... but it seems like a lot of money when you can buy a 500GB drive for $99.
I decided that it is the best value, and most secure, for me to buy external drives (both remote Network and USB) and store them in both remote and safe fireproof places on a regular basis.
If they change the vault feature to be a fixed price, and unlimited space with no access fees (like the JPG are), then I will certainly reconsider. It is a must to have secure backups, but it also needs to be cost-effective.
My feelings anyway.
I have to agree, and I hadn't even realized there were upload and download charges.
Brandon Smith http://redwoodtwig.com
Sony A7r4 with a selection of Rokinon Cine primes that I'm really enjoying learning how to use.
I have to agree, and I hadn't even realized there were upload and download charges.
Indeed, when I saw the feature, I thought cool! Then I saw the pricing.
Also, it's already insanely hard enough to upload a few GB of pictures on a home DSL connection. Imagine doing it for hundreds of GB. I don't think I'd ever be able to finish uploading everything since I'd constantly be getting new pictures.
Much cheaper and faster to just buy half a dozen hard drives and keep half of those at an off-site location.
Also, it's already insanely hard enough to upload a few GB of pictures on a home DSL connection. Imagine doing it for hundreds of GB. I don't think I'd ever be able to finish uploading everything since I'd constantly be getting new pictures.
For that I have a mass upload service to offer. Like SmugVault itself (or my Star*Explorer:-) , it's not free, but really good things rarely are...
Just send me your archives and I'll deal with them:-)
And if you have a constant influx of data we can work out a service agreement that can be even more appealing...
If I may be specific, how would you recommend the following needs are met by SmugVault?
1. I upload my JPEGs as normal. These are photos that are "picks" and that I want people to see. Fine.
2. My Lightroom library contains way more kept photos than I upload to SmugMug. I understand the benefit of name-matching, but if I wanted to keep a copy of EVERYTHING I have that's RAW, what's the best way to organise it?
Make a single gallery for archives only and upload them all there? Some better way to organise by dates or something? This could seriously get out of control.
The SmugVault data transfer in price is 300% that of Amazon S3, and therefore also 300% that of JungleDisk (who don't add a markup).
And, bearing in mind these markups, what's the purpose of the recurring charge? And when does it apply? From setting up the SmugVault service or whenever anything is stored in SmugVault?
Comments
So, after looking over the Photoshelter a tad more, it appears that they may be a direct competitor to SmugMug??? However, SmugMug has more customized features.....am I on track. Regardless, the Smugvault is a good thing and a great addition to the archival process.
Mommy & Me Photography
I won't sell out even if the whole world think's I'm crazy.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I won't sell out even if the whole world think's I'm crazy.
Even if I have SmugVault, is it true that clients can still only download JPG versions of my images on SmugMug?
SmugVault is only accessible by the logged in account holder, correct?
If so, does anyone know of a lowtech-user-friendly web-based solution for ftp transfer?
Thanks.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
What if I just want to do one big dump of my older files just to get them up into a secure backup (like JungleDisk). I don't want to mess around with getting them in the right gallery, or linked to the proper file. Just up and safe. You have a recommendation for that? Make one gallery per year or something like that?
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Your help page is misleading.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
You mean this? "How do I add my files to my SmugVault?
Use any of SmugMug's uploading options. Easy as that!"
Yeah that's an AnneBug we'll fix it
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
The reason we haven't done that is because we expect people to use SmugVault in completely different ways. Here are the first few steps though:
1 - Sign up by going to your Control Panel, to the Settings tab and clicking "Get one" at the bottom
2 - After you have signed up with Amazon and activated it, just go to any gallery and upload anything. JPEGs, GIFs, PNGs and most video files will still upload normally. The rest will automatically be stored in your SmugVault and appear right away in your galleries.
It's important to remember a few things:
First, you can turn on or off rendering of JPEGs for RAW-type files and original video storage in your Control Panel.
Second, bundling is done automatically if the filenames match or manually if you select "add archives" from the <photo tools> menu.
Third, you can browse your archives either through the regular gallery interface or through the SmugVault browsing interface, accessible from the <gallery tools> menu or directly from the Control Panel.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
1 - Priceless photos forever. There are some photos that you simply can't bear to lose. Storing the RAW files on just your home computer keeps you awake at night.
But you don't want to just dump 5,000 RAW files onto some cloud storage and try to remember which ones are which by filenames alone. You want visual browsing and you want them integrated directly into SmugMug right alongside your JPEGs.
2 - Temporary emergency storage. My wife is shooting three weddings this summer. She shoots in RAW. She absolutely cannot lose the wedding photos. So she gets back from shooting a wedding and dumps the RAWs onto her computer.
But editing them takes weeks or even months, so she wants to clear off her cards for the next wedding. Does she dare leave the RAWs only on a single computer before she has edited them and produced JPEGs to put on SmugMug?
Instead, she puts all the RAWs on SmugVault for a month until she is done editing. Then she removes the RAWs that she doesn't like, thanks to visual browsing, and keeps the rest on SmugVault for at least a few months.
3 - Original video storage. I only make a few home videos each year, but they are very precious to me. SmugMug does a great job making them viewable in HD on the Web, but has to lower the bitrate in order to do it. Well, what happens in 10 years when the full video at original bitrate can easily be displayed on the Web? I want those original video files stored until that time.
4 - Contracts. A pro photographer has contracts for each event he/she does. So the Pro stores the PDF right in the gallery with the photos from the event.
Really, there are plenty of possibilities. We're not sure how it will be used, we just think it's awesome and adaptable.
Yes, it is a fantastic deal when compared to a lot of services out there, and the convenience of doing through the same place where most of my work goes for display is certainly very attractive.
But I signed up with Carbonite a few months ago @ $50/year for unlimited storage of any size files. So everything goes there, my gigabyte panos along with my video work, some of which are also over 512mb. It's slow, but it is automatic, I just specify the folders I want backed up. I'd thought I would want something more like archival storage rather than a plain backup of my working files, but with with cheap hard disks, I see no reason for not keeping everything backed up instead of off loading some to historical archives.
Still and all, a great addition to your site,
http://redwoodtwig.com
Sony A7r4 with a selection of Rokinon Cine primes that I'm really enjoying learning how to use.
Hi
This is great, but in my case, I already have an existing Amazon S3 account. Is there a way to integrate SmugVault with that one ?
--
Murali
No, sorry!
Hello,
I want to ensure I understand the difference between the vault and the "normal" smugmug storage.
When I upload my jpgs to my site the full sized jpgs are stored on the site for the price I pay per year [pro account] and could be viewed as a backup to my HD of all jpgs. Correct?
The vault enables me to upload RAW files and other files normally not permitted on the site. Therefore, any file I do not need or do not have the RAW file [in the case of scanned images] could be considered backed up in my galleries. Correct?
Thanks!
frank
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Psalms 19:1
We now need to not destroy it and capture its beauty for all to behold.
http://www.kendralla.com
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I was asking for this feature for months ... (to upload RAW files as a backup) ... so the feature was a welcome addition, but I had no idea it would be priced so high.
I calculated it would cost me about $5,000 per year just for my RAW files - given my current data and shooting 300GB for the next 4-5 years. I also did not think that paying a premium price per month for disk space would also require additional upload costs, additional download costs and an additional monthly recurring charge. Wow. No wonder the example they quote is only for 2GB. I shot 20GB at my last single afternoon event.
I thought the feature would be a flat yearly rate just like the JPG files are now. The only difference in RAW & JPG is the file size. I thought the PRO account would just have a higher annual fee to also store unlimited RAW files. Obvioulsy without paying for uploads and downloads as the SmugMug JPG files work now. I guess it is for people who shoot infrequently, or only want to backup a very small portion of their data, or only use this service for brief periods of time - (during a vacation) - until you get back and can retrieve the files.
But for this brief vacation ... here is what I calculate:
For example, 100GB during the whole vacation.
Upload = 100 x .30 = $ 30
Keep for 1 month = 100 x .22 = $ 22
Recurring charge = $1 (perhaps they charge every month whether you use any space at all?
Retrieve when you return = 100 x .51 = $ 51
So for a temporary use to keep files safe for a trip ... it would cost
30 + 22 + 1 + 51 = $104
Some may think it is well worth the cost to protect 100GB of RAW data. I think that $104 would pay for a whole year of 300GB disk space from a number of web hosting companies. And at a fixed cost with unlimited use.
You can get web hosting accounts with 300 to 1,500 GB disk space included for about 5 to 8 dollars per month. Some accounts start at 300GB and they give you 2GB every week you stay a customer. That means the disk space grows 104GB per year at no additional charge. This is a smaller amount than I shoot every year (about 300GB) but I could get multiple accounts if I went that route. And hosting companies just charge per month - not also for putting and retrieving the data. Most also include one domain name registration per year. The hosting accounts that I looked into that say "unlimited disk space" will not allow data files to be stored there - only the web pages are unlimited in size - so they are not an option.
I'd love to use this vault feature but in my opinion, with all the other options available, it is so overpriced to be out of the question. And imagine losing your data - the insurance purpose for having a vault - and then to restore your files - they ding you additional download fees. Ouch. If I had 300GB there, and paid $90 to upload it - and been paying $66 every month to keep it safe - and lost all my data - to restore it would cost an additional $153? Maybe my math is off ... but it seems like a lot of money when you can buy a 500GB drive for $99.
I decided that it is the best value, and most secure, for me to buy external drives (both remote Network and USB) and store them in both remote and safe fireproof places on a regular basis.
If they change the vault feature to be a fixed price, and unlimited space with no access fees (like the JPG are), then I will certainly reconsider. It is a must to have secure backups, but it also needs to be cost-effective.
My feelings anyway.
Steve
I have to agree, and I hadn't even realized there were upload and download charges.
http://redwoodtwig.com
Sony A7r4 with a selection of Rokinon Cine primes that I'm really enjoying learning how to use.
Indeed, when I saw the feature, I thought cool! Then I saw the pricing.
Also, it's already insanely hard enough to upload a few GB of pictures on a home DSL connection. Imagine doing it for hundreds of GB. I don't think I'd ever be able to finish uploading everything since I'd constantly be getting new pictures.
Much cheaper and faster to just buy half a dozen hard drives and keep half of those at an off-site location.
Just send me your archives and I'll deal with them:-)
And if you have a constant influx of data we can work out a service agreement that can be even more appealing...
If I may be specific, how would you recommend the following needs are met by SmugVault?
1. I upload my JPEGs as normal. These are photos that are "picks" and that I want people to see. Fine.
2. My Lightroom library contains way more kept photos than I upload to SmugMug. I understand the benefit of name-matching, but if I wanted to keep a copy of EVERYTHING I have that's RAW, what's the best way to organise it?
Make a single gallery for archives only and upload them all there? Some better way to organise by dates or something? This could seriously get out of control.
There does appear to be a significant price markup on the base Amazon S3 prices:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=16427261
The SmugVault data transfer in price is 300% that of Amazon S3, and therefore also 300% that of JungleDisk (who don't add a markup).
And, bearing in mind these markups, what's the purpose of the recurring charge? And when does it apply? From setting up the SmugVault service or whenever anything is stored in SmugVault?
Nick