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The SmugVault Discussion Thread

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    JetrangerJetranger Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited November 3, 2008
    anderiv wrote:
    Part of my personal concern with using this sort of service revolves around core competency. A web hosting company's core competency is (gasp) webhosting. I'm guessing they found themselves with a surplus of disk sitting around, so they decided to try and monetize it by offerring "backup" services. Backup, though, is not something they're very experienced at doing. AWS S3 (this is what SmugVault uses on the back end), on the other hand, is incredibly experienced at data storage/backup, and they go to great lengths to assure that your data is safe and secure. I'm not confident that a web hosting company would do the same.

    I'm not claiming to know this company's technical abilities, but I would think that backing up website data files is really no different than backing up raw files. A data file is a data file. But, do we really know who is actually backing up all the information they claim to be? Unless we have firsthand knowledge, unless there is a disaster, you would never know ... Even the ones claiming to have policies and procedures in place - does not mean they are following them, or are not cutting corners ... as those of us in the I.T. field know.

    At some point you have to trust someone. I trust that my photos are all backed up through SmugMug, but I have never seen it ...

    Who you trust with your backups is a critical decision, and something that everyone needs to investigate thoroughly for themselves before making that decision. If you trust the wrong people, it could be very costly.

    I have no problem with paying more for better service or better quality of service, but that is a decision we each need to make. I have my own backups of all my raw and JPEG files ... onsite and offsite ... so a "web" archive is simply a 3rd level of protection for me ... I should never need it ... but if you are relying on it as your only backup (*yikes*) then yes - you may want to pay a lot more for your backups.

    Steve
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    NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited November 3, 2008
    Jetranger wrote:
    Well, all of the "unlimited disk" hosting companies that I have seen ensure that the unlimited space is actually USED for legitimate website content. There are restrictions to the unlimitied usage, such as no copyright infringements, no pirated files, and no files that are not used by the website you are hosting (ie backup files). Otherwise everyone would just throw all their backups to their host for free ... but you can have the most massive websites imaginable and they will host them for the flat fee.
    Do I read it correctly that they discriminate on file type? E.g. jpeg/html files are ok, but, say, CR2 or zip files are not? headscratch.gif
    And in the latter case, what would stop me/you/anybody from simply renaming CR2 to jpg and upload them then...I can even provide an html page for each set that would reference such files in a totally legitimate manner ne_nau.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
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    JetrangerJetranger Registered Users Posts: 51 Big grins
    edited November 3, 2008
    Nikolai wrote:
    Do I read it correctly that they discriminate on file type? E.g. jpeg/html files are ok, but, say, CR2 or zip files are not? headscratch.gif
    And in the latter case, what would stop me/you/anybody from simply renaming CR2 to jpg and upload them then...I can even provide an html page for each set that would reference such files in a totally legitimate manner ne_nau.gif


    No, I didn't say anything about file types. It is whether it is used on your website. I guess what is to stop you is the hosting company's policies and procedures which you agree to when you join. Can you try to trick them into storing your backups without paying for them? Who knows? I'm not really that type of person. If you ask them if you can do that - and they say yes - then you can do that. If not, then they would shut you down ... which really defeats the purpose of backups.

    Their fees seem very reasonable to me, and I understand what their hosting policies are.

    Steve
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    everydaymemorieseverydaymemories Registered Users Posts: 75 Big grins
    edited January 16, 2009
    I'm considering back up services like Carbonite, Backblaze, Mozy, or SmugVault. I am a digital scrapbooker and have lots of downloaded graphics I'd like to back up. I also have Photoshop, Word, and Notepad documents I'd like to back up.

    Can you help me understand the pricing system of Smugvault please?

    Say I currently have 10 GB of data I'd like to back up.
    Storage is 22 cents per GB per month so that would be $2.20.
    Plus a $1 per month recurring fee.
    Plus Data Transfer IN is 30 cents per GB so $3.

    So my first month using SmugVault would cost $6.20, right?

    Then, every time I back up newly acquired data, it will be 30 cents per GB, and I'll continuing paying $1 per month plus the increased total of GB I have times 22 cents... ? So if I only acquired a few megabytes of scrapbooking elements and a couple of documents, Month Two might come to even less than Month One...

    I read the other posts about how expensive SmugVault would be and I'm not sure I'm figuring this correctly. Perhaps it wouldn't be expensive for me because I'm not a professional photographer, but an avid digital scrapbooker of family photos.
    Michele
    michelekendzie.smugmug.com
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    NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2009
    I read the other posts about how expensive SmugVault would be and I'm not sure I'm figuring this correctly. Perhaps it wouldn't be expensive for me because I'm not a professional photographer, but an avid digital scrapbooker of family photos.
    That's probably exactly the reason. I can't call myself a prolific shooter, but after each session I tend to end up with at least 4Gb worth of RAW files (and sometime much more). Plus inevitable PSDs (i.e. final work) - those things are huge. I don't even count proofs and finals jpegs. Let's say, on an average month I can *easily* accumulate anywhere from 20 to 50Gb. And that's *one month* deal.gif
    Do your math:-)
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
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    RogersDARogersDA Registered Users Posts: 3,502 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2009
    Are the Smugvault costs still applicable/correct?

    Amazon Web Services prices for S3 storage appear to be significantly lower than what is listed in the Smugmug page. I can't recall if these were the same when Smugvault was first implemented.
    United States
    Storage

    * $0.150 per GB – first 50 TB / month of storage used
    * $0.140 per GB – next 50 TB / month of storage used
    * $0.130 per GB – next 400 TB /month of storage used
    * $0.120 per GB – storage used / month over 500 TB

    Data Transfer

    * $0.100 per GB – all data transfer in

    * $0.170 per GB – first 10 TB / month data transfer out
    * $0.130 per GB – next 40 TB / month data transfer out
    * $0.110 per GB – next 100 TB / month data transfer out
    * $0.100 per GB – data transfer out / month over 150 TB

    Requests

    * $0.01 per 1,000 PUT, COPY, POST, or LIST requests
    * $0.01 per 10,000 GET and all other requests*

    * No charge for delete requests
    I know that Smugmug has to recoup their costs, and I assume that recouping is transparent since we are billed by Amazon and not Smugmug. It would be nice if the Smugvault prices did come down, though. mwink.gif
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    gluwatergluwater Registered Users Posts: 3,599 Major grins
    edited January 16, 2009
    I'm considering back up services like Carbonite, Backblaze, Mozy, or SmugVault. I am a digital scrapbooker and have lots of downloaded graphics I'd like to back up. I also have Photoshop, Word, and Notepad documents I'd like to back up.

    Can you help me understand the pricing system of Smugvault please?

    Say I currently have 10 GB of data I'd like to back up.
    Storage is 22 cents per GB per month so that would be $2.20.
    Plus a $1 per month recurring fee.
    Plus Data Transfer IN is 30 cents per GB so $3.

    So my first month using SmugVault would cost $6.20, right?

    Then, every time I back up newly acquired data, it will be 30 cents per GB, and I'll continuing paying $1 per month plus the increased total of GB I have times 22 cents... ? So if I only acquired a few megabytes of scrapbooking elements and a couple of documents, Month Two might come to even less than Month One...

    I read the other posts about how expensive SmugVault would be and I'm not sure I'm figuring this correctly. Perhaps it wouldn't be expensive for me because I'm not a professional photographer, but an avid digital scrapbooker of family photos.
    Hello, that is correct for the most part. The only additional fees you will need to pay are for the annual SmugMug account which start at $39.95 for a Standard Account and the prince of downloading your data back to your computer which is 51 cents per GB.

    So if you upload 10 GB the first month you will pay $6.20. If you upload an additional 2 GB the next month your second months bill will be $4.24. If you do not upload anything new the second month your cost would be $3.20.

    Are any of your files jpgs, png's, or gif's? If so they will be uploaded to your regular SmugMug site and will not go into the SmugVault. That means you will not be charged for storing, uploading, or downloading them. So if your 10 GB of data has 5GB of jpg's than your first months bill will only be $3.60
    Nick
    SmugMug Technical Account Manager
    Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
    nickwphoto
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    MalteMalte Registered Users Posts: 1,181 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2009
    Is there a way to make vaulted items publicly accessible?

    Malte
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    docwalkerdocwalker Registered Users Posts: 1,867 SmugMug Employee
    edited October 6, 2009
    No, the vault is for your eyes only. They can see the rendered JPEGS that are rendered for some types of files. You can see more about that here: http://www.smugmug.com/help/smugvault
    SmugMug Support Hero
    http://help.smugmug.com
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    Rather27Rather27 Registered Users Posts: 115 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2010
    So my average Raw file is 35 mb from my 5D Mark II.....if I convert it to a jpeg it's about 15mb.....
    ---will I need to upload to the SmugVault?... I really only want to be able to sell prints, so does the transfer to jpeg make the file less impressive? is 15mb small?
    Thanks!
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    Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2010
    If you have a pro account that won't be a problem, the jpeg limit is 24MB. For other accounts it would be too big, the limit there is 12MB.

    You use the SmugVault as backup for raw images, SmugMug can't make a print from a raw image.


    Rather27 wrote:
    So my average Raw file is 35 mb from my 5D Mark II.....if I convert it to a jpeg it's about 15mb.....
    ---will I need to upload to the SmugVault?... I really only want to be able to sell prints, so does the transfer to jpeg make the file less impressive? is 15mb small?
    Thanks!
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    NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2010
    Rather27 wrote:
    So my average Raw file is 35 mb from my 5D Mark II.....if I convert it to a jpeg it's about 15mb.....
    ---will I need to upload to the SmugVault?... I really only want to be able to sell prints, so does the transfer to jpeg make the file less impressive? is 15mb small?
    Thanks!
    On a separate note, while my 5DMarkII Raw files are about the same size as yours mwink.gif , my jpegs tend to be 1..3Mb in size - and I made 20x30 prints out of them without any visible quality loss... FWIW I tend to work with low-noise material and rather smooth subjects ;-), so jpeg converter just loves it. I also use PS setting 8 (out of 12). Play with it, maybe 15Mb jpeg is an overkill? ne_nau.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
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    Jay25Jay25 Registered Users Posts: 70 Big grins
    edited March 15, 2010
    Guys quick question?, In pro account what is the total max amount of space we have avaible before we start paying for that photo vault?headscratch.gif
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    Dan7312Dan7312 Registered Users Posts: 1,330 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2010
    SmugMug has no limit. For pro as long as each image is under 24MB you can add as many images as you want. Likewise for the other level as long as each image is under 12MB.

    BTW the stuff you put in SmugVault is not displayed on your web site, it's only for backup.
    Jay25 wrote:
    Guys quick question?, In pro account what is the total max amount of space we have avaible before we start paying for that photo vault?headscratch.gif
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    Rather27Rather27 Registered Users Posts: 115 Major grins
    edited March 16, 2010
    Nikolai wrote:
    On a separate note, while my 5DMarkII Raw files are about the same size as yours mwink.gif , my jpegs tend to be 1..3Mb in size - and I made 20x30 prints out of them without any visible quality loss... FWIW I tend to work with low-noise material and rather smooth subjects ;-), so jpeg converter just loves it. I also use PS setting 8 (out of 12). Play with it, maybe 15Mb jpeg is an overkill? ne_nau.gif

    Yes, I've been working with high detail landscape and HDR images.....I want a file that will look gorgeous at the largest size I can print, so any reduction makes me nervous of quality loss, but maybe you're right.
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    JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2010
    Rather27 wrote:
    So my average Raw file is 35 mb from my 5D Mark II.....if I convert it to a jpeg it's about 15mb.....
    ---will I need to upload to the SmugVault?... I really only want to be able to sell prints, so does the transfer to jpeg make the file less impressive? is 15mb small?
    Thanks!

    15MB jpg seems extreme. Even when I leave mine full size they are only 5-6mb from my markII after raw conversion. Though I send to export at no more than 3000 pixels on the longest edge which is perfect for 8x10 and keeps the files under 3MB. From there everything else is an enlargement.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
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    Rather27Rather27 Registered Users Posts: 115 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2010
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    Though I send to export at no more than 3000 pixels on the longest edge which is perfect for 8x10 and keeps the files under 3MB. From there everything else is an enlargement.

    I want to be able to make perfect 30x40 prints with as little interpolation as possible...down sizing from the largest file as opposed to up sizing from a medium size file should yield the highest quality results if I'm not mistaken though right?
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2010
    Rather27 wrote:
    I want to be able to make perfect 30x40 prints with as little interpolation as possible...down sizing from the largest file as opposed to up sizing from a medium size file should yield the highest quality results if I'm not mistaken though right?
    You should NOT downsample. You should NOT change the number of pixels. Both of those will degrade the quality of large prints. You want to preserve all your original pixels.

    You can, however, use JPEG image compression and your large prints will not be affected. On the Photoshop 1-12 compression scale, level 10 is considered lab quality and will not impact your prints. Level 12, on the other hand, can create an image three times as large with no difference in the print quality. Both have the same number of pixels, one just uses more compression. Some people even say that level 8 or 9 is indistinguishable from level 12 in prints. I personally use level 10.
    --John
    HomepagePopular
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    Rather27Rather27 Registered Users Posts: 115 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2010
    jfriend wrote:
    You should NOT downsample. You should NOT change the number of pixels. Both of those will degrade the quality of large prints. You want to preserve all your original pixels.

    .

    yes I understand this, as for the best size file to upload, i'm guessing largest is best, that way smaller prints can be downsampled and look great and the large file will still be ideal for the largest prints. right?
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    jfriendjfriend Registered Users Posts: 8,097 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2010
    Rather27 wrote:
    yes I understand this, as for the best size file to upload, i'm guessing largest is best, that way smaller prints can be downsampled and look great and the large file will still be ideal for the largest prints. right?
    I upload my full resolution images at JPEG level 10. Then, as you say, you and your viewers have the most flexibility for print orders. Smugmug automatically creates 8 web sizes from what you uploaded that are appropriate sizes for web viewing. In the gallery settings, you control the max size that a viewer is allowed to see (it's common to not let them have access to the original).
    --John
    HomepagePopular
    JFriend's javascript customizationsSecrets for getting fast answers on Dgrin
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    kevtillerkevtiller Registered Users Posts: 5 Big grins
    edited June 8, 2010
    I am quite annoyed that smugmug has lost interest in the backup-to-dvd options (refer thread) so am looking at other options, like SmugVault. However I don't have an offline backup - just what's in smugmug - hence the need for an backup plan.

    So, if I go for Smugvault I have to download all my files locally then re-upload them in smugvault and then keep the 2 in sync ongoing ?

    Can I just dump from smugmug into smugvault then do a daily/weekly sync ?
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited June 8, 2010
    kevtiller wrote: »
    I am quite annoyed that smugmug has lost interest in the backup-to-dvd options (refer thread)
    We have not lost interest. In fact we're working on a new solution as we speak. Appreciate your patience and sorry to annoy you, but I promise, it's important to us.

    so am looking at other options, like SmugVault. However I don't have an offline backup - just what's in smugmug - hence the need for an backup plan.
    Wait - you don't keep local copies? Why not? A great backup strategy is: local copies, jpgs on SmugMug, and your RAWs, TIFFs, PSDs, etc in SmugVault.

    So, if I go for Smugvault I have to download all my files locally then re-upload them in smugvault and then keep the 2 in sync ongoing ?

    Can I just dump from smugmug into smugvault then do a daily/weekly sync ?
    We don't have these syncing options yet, I'm sorry.
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    SventekozSventekoz Registered Users Posts: 500 Major grins
    edited June 20, 2010
    I've just signed up for SmugVault, in addition to my Pro account. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to upload a few large .jpg pano files I have. In my upload log, I get this error message:

    Info: upload '> 24 MB in size. ' using POST to http://upload.smugmug.com/photos/new_add.mg with Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 from 121.209.150.238 in unknown_big_upload on line 0

    Can anyone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? I've tried different uploaders, to no avail. TIA.
    John
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    AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited June 20, 2010
    Sventekoz wrote: »
    I've just signed up for SmugVault, in addition to my Pro account. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to upload a few large .jpg pano files I have. In my upload log, I get this error message:

    Info: upload '> 24 MB in size. ' using POST to http://upload.smugmug.com/photos/new_add.mg with Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 from 121.209.150.238 in unknown_big_upload on line 0

    Can anyone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? I've tried different uploaders, to no avail. TIA.
    Please write our Support Heroes and we'll help you from the help desk.
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    SventekozSventekoz Registered Users Posts: 500 Major grins
    edited June 20, 2010
    OK - thanks Andy.
    John
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    The StigThe Stig Registered Users Posts: 52 Big grins
    edited July 13, 2010
    Hey Guys

    Can anyone give a quick heads up on how to create a subfolder in the categories pages, I’m starting to get to many images in on over title, eg landscapes, HDR and so on.... I want to have a sub folder in the above mentioned categories suck as names of towns under the heading of travel.....

    Any help would be great

    Regards

    Chris




    www.sinclairjonesphotography.com
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    NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited July 13, 2010
    The Stig wrote: »
    Hey Guys

    Can anyone give a quick heads up on how to create a subfolder in the categories pages, I’m starting to get to many images in on over title, eg landscapes, HDR and so on.... I want to have a sub folder in the above mentioned categories suck as names of towns under the heading of travel.....

    Any help would be great

    Regards

    Chris




    www.sinclairjonesphotography.com
    It's called SUBCATEGORIES and you can create as many as you want...deal.gif
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
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