Very Unhappy with Filename Showing in Keywords

mpdehaan

I asked this question to the guy who wrote Smugglr -- why were tags with numbers in them not imported from Flickr?

His response was

"SmugMug actively strips out keywords with numbers in them, to get around
this you should send any keyword with digits in it in a quote string"

It would be nice if the quote strings did not have to be entered.

Also, does smugmug automatically apply tags if already stored on the photo, for instance, if they were entered in Adobe Lightroom? What about tags with numbers?

rainforest1155

Hi,

SmugMug filters the digits out of every keywords unless you have enclosed the keyword in quotes. This also applies to keywords embedded in the IPTC keyword metadata. This works as it was designed. I'm sorry for the hassle. I'll add your report as a feature request.

Sebastian

eenusa

Very Unhappy with Filename Showing in Keywords
I now see that my filenames are being automatically added as keywords to my photos ... very unhappy with this. The file names are mere codes and meaningless to anyone other than myself. As it stands, I now have to go into keywords and delete them -- time consuming when a number is involved since I cannot mass delete the numbers.

Is there a way to stop this from happening?

Allen

No way to stop it but I'll second that they should not be picked up for
keywords. This adds all kinds of garbage to the keywords. There are all kinds
of apps to preload keywords so they upload and it's easy to add after upload.

Andy

Hi Guys as I've said a number of times this is not new behavior It wa s a bug that they weren't being added.

Allen

Andy wrote:

Hi Guys as I've said a number of times this is not new behavior It wa s a bug that they weren't being added.

Great, put the bug back in.:D

eenusa

Andy wrote:

Hi Guys as I've said a number of times this is not new behavior It wa s a bug that they weren't being added.

Too bad you fixed the bug! :cry

chuckinsocal

What Allen said ...

jh4wvu

We actually like the filename as a keyword. Most of our clients search by this. Maybe make it an option for those who don't want to use it.

Thanks,
Chris

West Virginia University Photographic Services
http://photos.wvu.edu

brian.conaghan

I agree that I prefered it when filenames were not in keywords. Whether intentional or not, for the last year I have been regularly keywording tens of thousands of photos and have never seen a filename in it until today.

I much prefer a blank box to enter my keyword data in. Not a make or break for me, but a preference...

Thanks,
Brian

OffTopic

I'll add my vote to put the bug back in. I spend a lot of time keywording and captioning my image files in Bridge/PS before I upload. I hate that now once again I have to remember to go into Smugmug's clunky keywording thing to take out all of the invalid garbage that gets pulled into my keywords here. If it was as easy as right-clicking on the file, pulling up File Info, and deleting the word it would be one thing. But Smuggy's keywording app drives me crazy and it just takes too long to use.

I realize that there are a lot of people here who don't keyword until after they've uploaded to Smugmug, and it's nice for them to have a way to add keywords if they don't use software that allows them do so prior to uploading,
but I think if people want the filename as a keyword, they should properly add it as a keyword, whether it's before or after uploading.

Baldy

Whew, this is proof that we need a new way to gather customer feedback. All I can remember hearing lately is how we fail at making filenames into keywords and will we please get that show on the road.

Thinking about how to please both factions...

denisegoldberg

Baldy wrote:

Whew, this is proof that we need a new way to gather customer feedback. All I can remember hearing lately is how we fail at making filenames into keywords and will we please get that show on the road.

I'd imagine that making this a gallery choice would make all of us happy.

To me, a keyword is a way to categorize my photos. It gives viewers a way to enter my gallery searching for a subject that interests them, and a way to cross the "gallery boundary".

While I can understand that photogs who are taking photos of groups of people might find having the filename as a keyword useful, it seems like it would make more sense to just allow us to choose to expose the filename as a filename. Not instead of a caption, not as a keyword, but by specifying that the filename should or should not be displayed.

A filename as a keyword? To me that is unnecessary clutter that needs to be removed in order for my keywords to do what they are supposed to - categorize things.

--- Denise

colourbox

I may not be thinking about it the way Google does, because I really don't know how search technically works, but I would think that for the purposes of search, shouldn't there already be no hindrance to finding filenames and keywords when you search a site? In other words, why can't we already find filenames when we search a SmugMug site? Why does a filename need to be in the keyword field just to make it searchable?

For example, if I'm working in an app like Lightroom, the filename is in filename metadata and the keyword is in keyword metadata. There is no need to enter the filename as a keyword in these standard DAM applications, because filenames can already be part of the scope of a search. Putting the filename into the keyword field in a DAM would be considered redundant, unnecessary, and against the philosophy of both the application design and DAM practices in general.

So it's because of that previous paragraph that I wonder why filenames have to be in the keyword field for them to be searchable. As far as I'm concerned, if I have photos in SmugMug, I would expect that filenames should already be findable if they exist in the filename metadata. If not now, then as a feature request. (I have to admit I haven't tried.)

I guess this could be an extension of a more general feature request to make SmugMug search work more like Pbase, where you can look for photos not just by keywords, but also by camera type, lens type...in other words, the expectation is going to be that, as in a DAM, all metadata types embedded with an image -- filenames, EXIF, IPTC -- are searchable, and the search constrainable, as a matter of course.

jfriend

Andy wrote:

Hi Guys as I've said a number of times this is not new behavior It wa s a bug that they weren't being added.

Though you may have fixed a bug, I don't think the behavior is the same as it was. I now get the keyword "JLF" on every one of my images (because that's in every filename JLF_xxxx) and that never used to happen before. I find it annoying. This isn't a keyword designation. It isn't useful, it's keyword pollution and you're now telling me that there's no way for me to stop it. I don't really care how it used to be - the way it is now doesn't seem right. If someone wants to opt-in to using filenames as keywords, that's fine, but why force us all to have junk in our keywords? Is there some reason for forcing it on us?

SPK64

Another vote to put the bug back.
1. Eliminates a step to delete the "auto" keywords from filenames
2. Filename keywords really add little value on large event groups of photos.
- Keywords categorize. Hence a large group of images with the same name are not properly "categorized"
- Having unique filenames for the smaller groups is not a wise use of time.

Only real value I see in filename keywords is if you are loading a few photos at a time and have taken time to name them something useful for a keyword.

Andy

jfriend wrote:

Though you may have fixed a bug, I don't think the behavior is the same as it was. I now get the keyword "JLF" on every one of my images (because that's in every filename JLF_xxxx) and that never used to happen before. I find it annoying. This isn't a keyword designation. It isn't useful, it's keyword pollution and you're now telling me that there's no way for me to stop it. I don't really care how it used to be - the way it is now doesn't seem right. If someone wants to opt-in to using filenames as keywords, that's fine, but why force us all to have junk in our keywords? Is there some reason for forcing it on us?

Ouch, I'm sorry we have upset you guys so much

I will ask Don (Onethumb) about the behavior of the JLF (example) keywords.

jh4wvu

Again, we use the filename to search and since you can't search the description we have to put the filename in as a keyword in order for our clients to search for a specific photo.

Chris

eenusa

Andy wrote:

Ouch, I'm sorry we have upset you guys so much

I will ask Don (Onethumb) about the behavior of the JLF (example) keywords.

Andy - I probably have a similar example - I am naming/coding current photos from a trip to Turkey as tky0508-###-#### ... tky designates the trip and 0508 designates the date; ### designates the sequence # for the order in which I want my photos to show in the gallery; #### designates the original image number from the camera so that I can easily find the original image if I need to go back to it. Right now, with the bug fixed, in addition to the keywords I add in Lighthouse, I get: tky; 021; 4298 (for example) as three additional meaningless keywords - only the tky piece shows up; the numbers simply clutter up the keyword field without being displayed.

As others have said, making this an option in gallery settings would probably please both camps. (Similar to the option of having filenames show in lieu of a caption.)

Thanks for listening to our voice on this issue.

BigAl

I'm one of those who wanted the keyword from filename put back. It hasn't been gone for a year as suggested earlier in this thread, but since early November 2007.

Simplest thing in the world, if you don't want it, leave your default camera's filename as the filename you upload. Smugmug then does not use it. If you change the filename, you must have a reason for doing so, so then why not be able to search for it using that criteria??

jfriend

BigAl wrote:

I'm one of those who wanted the keyword from filename put back. It hasn't been gone for a year as suggested earlier in this thread, but since early November 2007.

Simplest thing in the world, if you don't want it, leave your default camera's filename as the filename you upload. Smugmug then does not use it. If you change the filename, you must have a reason for doing so, so then why not be able to search for it using that criteria??

I wish that were so BigAl, but that is not. My filenames come out of my camera as JLF_xxxx and Smugmug is now making JLF be a keyword on every one of my images. That never used to happen (in my four years of being a customer). So, when they "fixed" it, they implemented it differently than it was before.

BigAl

jfriend wrote:

I wish that were so BigAl, but that is not. My filenames come out of my camera as JLF_xxxx and Smugmug is now making JLF be a keyword on every one of my images. That never used to happen (in my four years of being a customer). So, when they "fixed" it, they implemented it differently than it was before.

Agree that something has changed as I leave the in-camera numbers in my filename and that is now included too.

Andy

jfriend wrote:

I wish that were so BigAl, but that is not. My filenames come out of my camera as JLF_xxxx and Smugmug is now making JLF be a keyword on every one of my images. That never used to happen

Right and {JT} is looking into it, we beg everyone's patience while he does so, thanks everyone

LPC

Another vote for putting the bug back. I've taken Keywords off my Info page for now. I know I could go through each image as I add them and delete or change the keyword but I'd rather not have to or at least would like to have the option of turning the auto-add filename on or off to suit.

jfriend

Andy wrote:

Right and {JT} is looking into it, we beg everyone's patience while he does so, thanks everyone

Cool.

{JT}

Need filenames
So we do look for some filenames, but not all - JFL for example I found a pretty comprehensive list of camera filenames here:
http://diddly.com/random/about.html

But it did not list JLF, so I am sure that it is missing others. Does anyone else have this problem and would like to give me a filename to be on the lookout for?

onethumb

jfriend wrote:

I wish that were so BigAl, but that is not. My filenames come out of my camera as JLF_xxxx and Smugmug is now making JLF be a keyword on every one of my images. That never used to happen (in my four years of being a customer). So, when they "fixed" it, they implemented it differently than it was before.

I hate to disagree with you, but I just went and checked out various revisions of our codebase over the last 6 years, and it looks like the only prefixes we've ever ignored are:

DSC#
P#
IMG_#
IMG #
DSC_#
DSCN#
DSC #
DSCF#
PICT#
PICT# #

And some various other strings that are 2 chars or less.

JLF_# would have generated "JLF" keywords since the day SmugMug added keywords, at least according to code I'm looking at.

Are you sure your workflow hasn't changed? I want to make sure we put it back to the "way it's always been" before we start looking for ways to improve it.

Allen

I've just went thru about 10 galleries (actually about a dozen KW's, across many galleries) removing keywords that all of a sudden are showing up from file names. I noticed a bunch of new keywords looking at my keyword page and they were not there before. I had cleaned the list out previously when the keywords from unlisted and PW'ed galleries were added if logged in. Now they are all back. Were all the galleries run thru this conversion since then?

scottkwest

a way to block numbers
For me, at least, a way to block or remove keywords with numbers would solve this.

For large galleries, I have gone through and 'removed' '0', '1', '2', ... '9' to get rid of all of these unique keywords.

A search by filename might solve some of the above issues, without the need to 'misuse' keywords for that purpose.

zooloo

A filename is a filename. A keyword is a keyword. No magic please!
Hi folks,

I created my SmugMug account about 6 days ago and this is one of the first issues I ran into! Actually, I also have another issue which I consider to be a bug: that I cannot easily replace files in a gallery by filename in bulk ... they just get added as dups with different imageIDs -- convenient for a database designer, but crippling for flexibility of workflow for power/pro users.

Anyway, I digress .... back to the topic at hand. One frustration at a time 8-)

As part of my workflow I name my pics to be fairly globally unique, including timezone info, e.g.:

2007-06-01-14-27-44-UTC+8-vk0_0392.jpg

Right now, SM takes the "UTC" and the "0392" and makes them keywords, which is annoying.

This violates a fundamental expectation of no unintended consequences. As a "Pro", control over the details, flexibility of workflow, and predictability of results are all important.

Not only does my camera custom name my pics according to my specs, but most workflow guides strongly recommend that the *first* thing you do when you extract your pics out of your camera is to rename them to something as unique as possible. This makes a lot of sense, and I've seen others with filename conventions similar to mine. The final destination(s) for publishing an image are not always known at the start of the workflow.

But it's just a filename. A unique string that maps my master copy of my work on my local drives to what's at SmugMug. Infering keywords from substrings of the filename is not a good idea IMHO. No amount of guessing will get this right all the time, so it should be optional.

Computers cannot read my mind! (Well, except when I'm about to do a presentation and they know I would be embarrassed if they crashed).

IPTC Keywords are there for a reason ... I should be able to specify exactly what I want there.

Anyway, please, please stop doing this by default. I had assumed that SM catered to somewhat more seasoned photographers such myself or real pros. IMHO, that's exactly the user base that needs the flexibility of making this feature OPTIONAL.

Thanks
--> VK

encosion

May I suggest that you leave filenames out of the keyword, but simply ammend the search to include filenames when searching? Or don't you store the filenames in the database when uploading because your system renames the files?