advice on studio lighting?

lilmomma · August 3, 2009

I bought some lights over the weekend...it was a continuous lighting package, which I thought would work for now since i didn't have the money to invest in triggers and meters and all that. Well I actually really like the results, but the one thing that concerns me is that it gets SOOOO hot. I accidently had my umbrella up too close to the light and it melted part of it. It also melted the base of the light a little, and there is a smell coming from it like it's melting the pole part of the umbrella as well. Anyone else experience this? I'm wondering if I should take it back and just spend the extra money on a strobe kit? :dunno

NeilL · August 3, 2009

Sounds like you have halogen lights. Just as you describe, they are extremely hot and hazardous, but also they create a yellow cast. This cast can be corrected with the right kind of filter.

However, there is now fluorescent continuous lighting, which produces no heat, and has a white light spectrum - color temperature. You might like to investigate this newer system.

It's disappointing, of course, but I think that, if at all possible, you really should abandon the halogens.

I'd also suggest, while you are considering the options, to get a hold of the Strobist Lighting Seminar. You might well be convinced that you can achieve most of what you want with smart and creative use of one or more camera mount flashes used off camera, such as the Canon Speedlights. They don't have to be the latest hardest core, they can be manual. You might find some 2nd hand bargains.

Neil

thoth · August 3, 2009

I have to agree with NeilL's second suggestion of using speedlights for your beginning studio work. I bought a couple Nikons SB-20s, stands, brackets, brolly boxes, optical triggers and CyberSyncs to fire it all and spent in the neighborhood of $250 for everything.

Speedlights won't be the end-all solution for your studio needs, I'm sure, but you can get into it and learn lighting with very little cost.

ziggy53 · August 3, 2009

For my own use, I wound up getting Flashpoint II Model 1820 monolights, and I'm mostly very happy with the decision.

Using flash lighting also yields larger eye pupils, which most folks find more flattering in a portrait.

Hot lights can still be valuable for background lighting or still lifes, but with the cost of inexpensive slaved (and slave-able) electronic flash, the benefits of hot lights are greatly diminished. Cool continuous lights, fluorescent lights primarily, are great lights for BW photography, and the high-end units are used for some commercial color work.

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371642&postcount=19
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371788&postcount=33
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371799&postcount=35
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=381965&postcount=37

Daylight balanced compact fluorescent are OK now for objects that don't require tight color balance, but I don't think they are quite ready for most portraiture or other applications which require more subtle and accurate tonality. The reason is that inexpensive daylight balanced compact fluorescent phosphors are still not a complete continuous spectra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lights#Phosphors_and_the_spectrum_of_emitted_light

Compare this to a true daylight spectra:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Life_on_Earth

I would agree that the Strobist approach is budget wise a very cost effective solution using lower cost speedlights. You do not get modelling lights so positioning needs to be done carefully.

lilmomma · August 3, 2009

Looks like I have some things to think about...

I may try out fluorescents, but will it be the same wattage? the ones in there now are 500w a piece..can you get that high in fluorescent bulbs?

I may also check around on the speedlight setup. I have an sb600 that I mounted on the stand with the umbrella, and even with the FC up 2 stops it didn't seem to produce the power of light of just one bulb. Also, I can't shoot continuously. I can for a few shots but then I need to give my flash time to recycle.

The thing is, I don't really mind that the light is so hot, i'm just a little concerned about the fumes!

Scott_Quier · August 4, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

Looks like I have some things to think about...

I may try out fluorescents, but will it be the same wattage? the ones in there now are 500w a piece..can you get that high in fluorescent bulbs?

I may also check around on the speedlight setup. I have an sb600 that I mounted on the stand with the umbrella, and even with the FC up 2 stops it didn't seem to produce the power of light of just one bulb. Also, I can't shoot continuously. I can for a few shots but then I need to give my flash time to recycle.

The thing is, I don't really mind that the light is so hot, i'm just a little concerned about the fumes!

May I, respectfully, suggest you reconsider going the flourescent route. You will, I believe, determine that they are not flexible enough to do everything you will eventually want to do. The strobist route, I believe, is a much better and cheaper route to go. Consider the Vivitar 285HV Professional Auto Shoe Mount Flash - pretty much all the power you'll ever need for about $90. For off-camera lighting, you don't need the complicated and expensive electronics you get with dedicated external flash units. I know more than one professional photographer who uses these or similar - exclusively and you wouldn't believe the results he gets.

Get a couple or three of these, a couple or three EBay triggers (Art Scott, among others can point you in the right direction for that) and you're good to go. If you work the "strobist way", you don't even need a light meter - but that comes with practice (I'm still on that path and wonder if I'll ever "arrive"

)

Shooting continuously is not, usually, all it's cracked up to be unless you are shooting action (sports, theater, wedding, wedding reception, etc). You'll get a lot more mileage from careful shot planning. Take a couple of exposures and chimp to evaluate the results of that planning.

As for the hot lights and the associated risks - yes fumes are a consideration, but the risk of fire is even more of a risk. You've already melted part of an umbrella and you are smelling hot metal. Both are good signs you are only a small step from an uncontrolled exothermic chemical reaction (a house fire!).

lilmomma · August 4, 2009

Ziggy-Thank you for the links, lots of great info! I just now got a chance to go through them.

Scott-Ok ok my arm is twisted. I like the lights but my gut is telling me I need to go the other route. I don't understand why they make those setups so dangerous. Seems odd to me. So say I take the stuff back, what will i need for a basic setup? I'm thinking two of the sb20's, two light stands, and i'll keep my umbrella's, and something to trigger them, which is the part i don't know anything about. Can those be used as a slave with the sb600? then you say that I don't need a meter, so I'm guessing the sb20's just be set to M, then I'd shoot and adjust the output for what i'm needing. I guess that doesn't sound bad, but it does sound like it will take lots of practice.

Anyway once again thanks to all for the advice. I think my lights will be making a trip back to the store this evening.

thoth · August 4, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

Ziggy-Thank you for the links, lots of great info! I just now got a chance to go through them.

Scott-Ok ok my arm is twisted. I like the lights but my gut is telling me I need to go the other route. I don't understand why they make those setups so dangerous. Seems odd to me. So say I take the stuff back, what will i need for a basic setup? I'm thinking two of the sb20's, two light stands, and i'll keep my umbrella's, and something to trigger them, which is the part i don't know anything about. Can those be used as a slave with the sb600? then you say that I don't need a meter, so I'm guessing the sb20's just be set to M, then I'd shoot and adjust the output for what i'm needing. I guess that doesn't sound bad, but it does sound like it will take lots of practice.

Anyway once again thanks to all for the advice. I think my lights will be making a trip back to the store this evening.

Here's some links that might get you going:

You can find these a little cheaper (I spent $25 each on a couple that I have) occassionally on Craigslist or Ebay, but that's not always effective use of time.

Flash Zebra sells all the flash trimmings (hotshoe adapters, umbrella brackets, optical triggers, etc.) at a very reasonable price with excellent service. It seems their site is down today but it should be coming back up (I hope).

A rough shopping list might include:

Nikon SB-20 @ B&H or simliar speedlight. If you're using umbrellas or brolly boxes these need not rotate around or have fancy LCD screens on them. The Vivitars Scott mentioned are also great for this.

2 White Umbrellas Don't forget eBay for these. The quality is pretty much identical to the cheapo umbrellas at B&H and you can find them for $5 or $6 depending on the day.

2 Umbrella brackets. These are the things that attach the umbrella, and the flash, to a stand. Make sure the brackets you get come with the cold shoe and the metal studs that insert into the bracket.

2 Optical Slaves. Check Flash Zebra (when they come back online) for these. B&H has them but they're twice as expensive. Alternatively, you can try some of the ebay sellers. There's not a world of difference between a really cheap optical slave and a really expensive as far as I'm concerned. These can be fired by the on-camera flash or the SB-600. Be careful when using CLS, though, as the preflashes will inadvertently fire your slaved flashes.

(Optional) Radio Trigger + Receivers. I chose CyberSyncs but many folks have excellent luck with the Cactus triggers Scott spoke about. Art, or one of the other Cactus users, can certainly point you in the right direction for them. You can also use a combination of Radio triggers and optical slaves. For a while I used a single CyberSync receiver for one flash and optical slaves on the others.

2 Light Stands ... or 3 or 4 or however many you need for the number of lights you buy. These don't have to be anything fancy to start off -- especially if you're working indoors. Also, consider a small backlight stand if you have an extra flash for a backlight. The regular stands are just too large to stay out of the way for that job.

I think that should get you started. Let me know if you have any questions bout the gear.

du8die · August 4, 2009

I've purchased a bunch of stuff from Midwest Photo Exchange (www.mpex.com) and have been VERY happy with them. They have the Cactus v2's triggers for $36.99 (transmitter and receiver and upgraded battery). You can buy an extra receiver for I think $24.99. These have been great for me. Of course, I'll eventually move to PW's but these will get you going. They have an entire section of their site for Strobist gear, with reasonable prices and fast shipping. (I'm not affiliated with them, just found them on Strobist's site.)

Scott_Quier · August 4, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

Ziggy-Thank you for the links, lots of great info! I just now got a chance to go through them.

Scott-Ok ok my arm is twisted. I like the lights but my gut is telling me I need to go the other route. I don't understand why they make those setups so dangerous. Seems odd to me. So say I take the stuff back, what will i need for a basic setup? I'm thinking two of the sb20's, two light stands, and i'll keep my umbrella's, and something to trigger them, which is the part i don't know anything about. Can those be used as a slave with the sb600? then you say that I don't need a meter, so I'm guessing the sb20's just be set to M, then I'd shoot and adjust the output for what i'm needing. I guess that doesn't sound bad, but it does sound like it will take lots of practice.

Anyway once again thanks to all for the advice. I think my lights will be making a trip back to the store this evening.

You questions:

What will you need for a basic setup? - what you need will be driven by what you want to photography. The more complex your lighthing requirements the more gear you will need. So, give us some insight into your ambitions and someone will provide you with a starting point.
And, something to trigger them? - Here, google is your friend. Entering
```
remote triggers site:dgrin.com
```
into a google search page will give you a list of threads/pages on DGrin talking about remote triggers. As I indicated above, Art Scott is a strong proponent of some of the EBay triggers - they are less expensive than some of the alternatives and can be just as reliable if used within their "scope of practice." So, if you modify the above search criteria to include his nickname (i.e.,
```
remote triggers Art Scott site:dgrin.com
```
you might hit paydirt.
Can I shoot without a meter? - Yes you can. As you say, it can require a bit of practice, but not as much as you might think - especially if you can get a feel for the Inverse Square Law of Light Propogation:
But, unless you are doing this for $$$$, that practice is part of the fun. It's easiest to start with using just on flash/strobe and figure out how that behaves. Then add a reflector (a white foamcore board works well for this) and see what you can do. Now, substitute a second flash for the reflector - hmm, now you have to work with balancing the output from the flashes to deliver the lighting ratio you are wanting. Fun stuff ! And, really not very difficult.
Just set to "M" and adjust the output for what is desired? - Yup, it's just that easy. Of course, you will need to keep your shutter speed at or below your camera's x-sync speed and you will have to visualize the effect each light source is having on your exposure/image. One easy way to do this is to remember that light travels (for all practical purposes) in a straight line and look at the lighting problem from the reverse angle - look at your light source(s) from the subject point of view - if the subject (or a portion of the subject) can't see a given light source, then that light source is little or nothing to to the exposure at that point.

Art Scott · August 4, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

Ziggy-Thank you for the links, lots of great info! I just now got a chance to go through them.

Scott-Ok ok my arm is twisted. I like the lights but my gut is telling me I need to go the other route. I don't understand why they make those setups so dangerous. Seems odd to me. So say I take the stuff back, what will i need for a basic setup? I'm thinking two of the sb20's, two light stands, and i'll keep my umbrella's, and something to trigger them, which is the part i don't know anything about. Can those be used as a slave with the sb600? then you say that I don't need a meter, so I'm guessing the sb20's just be set to M, then I'd shoot and adjust the output for what i'm needing. I guess that doesn't sound bad, but it does sound like it will take lots of practice.

Anyway once again thanks to all for the advice. I think my lights will be making a trip back to the store this evening.

Hot lights really do not have any place in the portrait studio...as you ahve noticed....scorching smells of something too hot....the chrome coating on your umbrellas is what you're smelling starting to burn and fumes from scorching chrome is very dangerious to breathe.......Noww going on down to Mr. Quier's post......

Scott_Quier wrote:
You questions:
What will you need for a basic setup? - what you need will be driven by what you want to photography. The more complex your lighthing requirements the more gear you will need. So, give us some insight into your ambitions and someone will provide you with a starting point.
And, something to trigger them? - Here, google is your friend. Entering
remote triggers site:dgrin.com
into a google search page will give you a list of threads/pages on DGrin talking about remote triggers. As I indicated above, Art Scott is a strong proponent of some of the EBay triggers - they are less expensive than some of the alternatives and can be just as reliable if used within their "scope of practice." So, if you modify the above search criteria to include his nickname (i.e.,
remote triggers Art Scott site:dgrin.com
you might hit paydirt.
Can I shoot without a meter? - Yes you can. As you say, it can require a bit of practice, but not as much as you might think - especially if you can get a feel for the Inverse Square Law of Light Propogation:
Inverse Square Law, Light

Wiki - Inverse-Square Law

The Inverse Square Law - what it means to Photographers

But, unless you are doing this for $$$$, that practice is part of the fun. It's easiest to start with using just on flash/strobe and figure out how that behaves. Then add a reflector (a white foamcore board works well for this) and see what you can do. Now, substitute a second flash for the reflector - hmm, now you have to work with balancing the output from the flashes to deliver the lighting ratio you are wanting. Fun stuff ! And, really not very difficult.

Just set to "M" and adjust the output for what is desired? - Yup, it's just that easy. Of course, you will need to keep your shutter speed at or below your camera's x-sync speed and you will have to visualize the effect each light source is having on your exposure/image. One easy way to do this is to remember that light travels (for all practical purposes) in a straight line and look at the lighting problem from the reverse angle - look at your light source(s) from the subject point of view - if the subject (or a portion of the subject) can't see a given light source, then that light source is little or nothing to to the exposure at that point.

Scott is correct in that I do recommend the lesser expensive EBAy Triggers from photogearok ........they have a working distance of approx 150' and I have never had one fail....I had one arrive DOA ....but it was replaced without a hitch.....the ones I linked to above are 16 channels....you can get 4 channel ones but if your going beyoond the confines of your studio I suggest going up to 16 channels to make sure someone else is not using yur frequency....als o they are readio frequency, not IR beams.........

O also suggest getting the $5 adapter that is shown in the photo and marked as not included.......

I am also a huge propent of the Vivatar 285 strobes and the ebay seller that I linked you to (CAMETA CAMERA).....if you have the money for 2 to 5 sb900 then go that route so you can possibly maintain i-ttl capablilty.....but it sounds like you don't have that kind of money so I strongly suggest the Vivatar 285's......they were the PRO's workhorse Premier flash unit for several decades....STROBISTS REVIEW OF THE V285HV....I am so glad Vivitar saw the light and fixed the flash voltage and lowered it to 6v to be safe in all digital cams......

A few of these.....errrrr........1 for each flash.......This isn ot the only type it was just what poped up with my search

A brollybox for each light use for main or fill..........Other companies make Brolleyboxes, I just happen to like Paul Buff/White Lightning/Alien Bee products due to their FANFRICKINTASTIC CUSTOMER SUPPORT.....I also use WHITE LIGHTNING studio strobes.........

You can find really good light meters on the net realivily cheap (under $200) used.....Sekonic is a great brand and easy to learn....shot and chimp using your historgram is good but time consuming especially if you are with a client and especially if the subject is a clients child.......so really you need a meter....if you can squeeze the purse and drip just enuff blood to purchase one it will in time save your behind and that one time will make you wonder why you did not have one sooner to carry with you......

Here is my Minolta Flash Meter lll that I have on EBAY....it is a fantastic meter, but I wanted one with a spot meter built in for landscaping and sky shots where i knew there were several stops difference and needed to average out the difference of figure out how many shots I needed for HDRing the scene......so I now have a Sekonic L558.......

As Ziggy pointed out using manual strobes for lighting you have no modeling light.....I gaff taped a small "MAG LITE" to the flash head and aimed it as straight ahead as possible to see where I was shooting the center of the flash....it does help................

divamum · August 4, 2009

~raises hand tentatively from back row~

Forgive me if this was already suggested and I missed it, but have you considered getting a 2nd Nikon flash (eg the 900 or whatever the model is - sorry, not a Nikon gal!) and using that + your existing Nikon flash + triggers? That would presumably give you a good across the board setup that might not cost that much more than a full strobist rig (again, I'm not Nikon, so forgive me if I'm unintentionally suggesting something out of the price range!) Just seems to me that way you can go ttl or manual as your need arises....

Just a thought.

Art Scott · August 4, 2009

divamum wrote:

~raises hand tentatively from back row~

Forgive me if this was already suggested and I missed it, but have you considered getting a 2nd Nikon flash (eg the 900 or whatever the model is - sorry, not a Nikon gal!) and using that + your existing Nikon flash + triggers? That would presumably give you a good across the board setup that might not cost that much more than a full strobist rig (again, I'm not Nikon, so forgive me if I'm unintentionally suggesting something out of the price range!) Just seems to me that way you can go ttl or manual as your need arises....

Just a thought.

Unfortunately....using camera brand flashes and relying on the systems own IR contollers so you can keep with ttl is very limiting in distance and also very limiting for out of studio or just out door shooting....for instance....my brand new Nikon SB900 mounted on a flash bracket with the D300....no cables....works in commander mode with the lil poop up flash (yup I meant poop up)....but as soon as i step out doors....it no longer works....nothing to reflect that poop up flash set at 128 power to fire the 900......I found this out 2 days past my deadline to return it to best buy or I could have had 5 - Viv. 285HV's for the same money and since I do use a meter for off camera flash and already have a set of 5 triggers (for my studio strobes) then I was actually already set.....but I have found the SB900 to be so far the most intellengent of all new computerized flashes i have owned in the past several years.......

bow to the SB900..........

I am looking heavily at the Paul Buff/White Lightning/Alien
Bee CYCBER SYNCS....as I have heard that they allow your flashes to ttl communicate....if so then that will be fantastic for the pros that want to save space and use hotshoe mount strobes for all lighting.......but they do cost more than my now $22 flash triggers
i currently use:D

divamum · August 4, 2009

Right, but I was thinking with an add-on set of triggers you could use TTL when you want, and switch to manual when using the non-proprietary triggers? That was my thinking

Art Scott wrote:

Unfortunately....using camera brand flashes and relying on the systems own IR contollers so you can keep with ttl is very limiting in distance and also very limiting for out of studio or just out door shooting....for instance....my brand new Nikon SB900 mounted on a flash bracket with the D300....no cables....works in commander mode with the lil poop up flash (yup I meant poop up)....but as soon as i step out doors....it no longer works....nothing to reflect that poop up flash set at 128 power to fire the 900......I found this out 2 days past my deadline to return it to best buy or I could have had 5 - Viv. 285HV's for the same money and since I do use a meter for off camera flash and already have a set of 5 triggers (for my studio strobes) then I was actually already set.....but I have found the SB900 to be so far the most intellengent of all new computerized flashes i have owned in the past several years.......bow to the SB900..........

I am looking heavily at the Paul Buff/White Lightning/Alien
Bee CYCBER SYNCS....as I have heard that they allow your flashes to ttl communicate....if so then that will be fantastic for the pros that want to save space and use hotshoe mount strobes for all lighting.......but they do cost more than my now $22 flash triggers
i currently use:D

Qarik · August 4, 2009

divamum wrote:

Right, but I was thinking with an add-on set of triggers you could use TTL when you want, and switch to manual when using the non-proprietary triggers? That was my thinking

I am going with Divamum on this.

if your budget will allow get:

1) SB900 x3
2) 1 radio trigger + 3 receivers

This will give you mounted fill flash SB900 + 2 SB900 off camera strobes + 1 SB600. So you can some combination of main light, rim light, back drop light, hair light, etc.

If you are working in one area that is receptive to bounced flashes and need to save up for radio triggers then you can use your D90 as master and have 4 off camera strobes until money is there.

As for triggers..radio poppers, Pocket wizards or some off brand (I am waiting on the nikon veriosn o fthe new pocket wizards myself).

lilmomma · August 4, 2009

Ok so here's how it all started. I was supposed to shoot some maternity shots for my aunt on Sunday. Well I told her to come out, we'd go to the part, then we'd come back to my house to do "studio" type shots. I have a sb600 and have been wanting to get a lightstand and umbrella for it for a while now. My hubby got me a $250 gift card to the local camera store for my b-day so I went online to check out umbrellas and such, but then I took a peek at the lighting sets was thinking about what would be the best way to get the most out of the gift card. I found some cheap strobe sets, like around $200, that I thought would do what I needed it to do and since i'm just starting out I figured it would be sufficient for what I had in mind. Well I got to the store only to find that the strobe sets were an online thing only, but they had a continuous light setup for $150. 2 stands, 2 bulb mounts, and the reflectors that go around the bulb. Well it was umbrella-adaptable so I thought ok, this will work, it will be easy and I don't have to get meters and all that. Well I ended up having to buy the umbrellas separately but that was no big deal, since i still had room on the gift card. I set up that night and took some test shots and honestly I was more than thrilled with the outcome:

(rest of the series here: http://mkayser.smugmug.com/gallery/9127338_ziULN/1/608442309_NDXYb )

But, as time was going on I kept smelling this wierd smell, and it was getting really hot in my living room. I apparently had my umbrella too close to the bulb and it melted the base of the spokes! But not only that it melted the base of where the bulb goes in. Not good... So as much as I loved the lighting output, I can't deal with the seemingly dangerous fumes. Anyway I took everything back today except the umbrellas but the store is a little pricey and don't have much of the stuff mentioned here so i'm back to the gift card. And my aunt had to reschedule so I didn't get to do the maternity session with them.

Diva- yes I had considered that, but i was really trying to stay within the price range of >250 for the most basic setup. Now I have 2 umbrellas, but only one flash now, no light stands or flash adapters. almost back to square one.

Seymore- I am shooting people. I should've come here and asked before I made the decision to buy the kit!

So now I think the decision is now this: two vivitars/or sb-20's, 2 light stands, 2 umbrella adapters and something to trigger all this with.

Anyway I appreciate all the feedback and advice from everyone and I'm sure i'll have more questions as i purchase my setup. You guys all rock, thanks!!

lust

NeilL · August 5, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

May I, respectfully, suggest you reconsider going the flourescent route. You will, I believe, determine that they are not flexible enough to do everything you will eventually want to do. ...

Citation required, as they say in Wikipedia!

D

Not saying you aren't right, but would be interesting to read of your or others' experience with the new fluorescent continuous lighting.
I have two Excella Sprint 300 (but I am also on the trail of the Strobist!

). The Excella lights are very nice - pleasant and cool to work with (they are built as softboxes with a grid of warming color lines to fill out the spectrum), and because what you see is what you get they are more straightforward to work with than strobes.

Here's an example of what they can do:

Scott_Quier · August 5, 2009

NeilL wrote:

Scott_Quier wrote:

May I, respectfully, suggest you reconsider going the flourescent route. You will, I believe, determine that they are not flexible enough to do everything you will eventually want to do. ...

Citation required, as they say in Wikipedia!D

Not saying you aren't right, but would be interesting to read of your or others' experience with the new fluorescent continuous lighting.
I have two Excella Sprint 300 (but I am also on the trail of the Strobist!). The Excella lights are very nice - pleasant and cool to work with (they are built as softboxes with a grid of warming color lines to fill out the spectrum), and because what you see is what you get they are more straightforward to work with than strobes.

Note the highlighted section of my words you quoted - it's a believe. Citation not required

I guess I was making certain assumptions that may not be valid.

But, in the interest of full and free discussion, consider taking flourescent lighting outdoors to the park across the street. Or taking it on a location shoot. Portability and versatility - but these come at the price of having to learn how to use these tools.

But I do agree. You have generated some very nice results - as demonstrated by the photo you included - no doubt about it.

And, I can see the attraction of being able to turn on the lights and see what you are going to get. To me, that is just too easy and feels almost like cheating. A lot of the pleasure I get from portrait work is being able to visualize what it is I want, then (in the dark as it were) setting the lights into the "proper" position and setting the power ratios. When I press the shutter button and see the result - I get a little rush that comes from that sense of accomplishement.

ziggy53 · August 5, 2009

Daylight compact fluorescent are not completely unsuitable, but they do lack continuous spectrum as well as variability in output. Flicker can also be a problem in faster shutter speeds (although not too much at typical studio situation shutter speeds). They can be a very valuable learning light source in that they are inexpensive and lightweight and provide continuous operation for positioning.

Speedlight flashes have both a (fairly) continuous spectrum and variability in output (depending on the model and situation), lacking only the modeling light feature.

I use both compact flo and speedlights, as well as studio monolights and handle-bracket flash as well when the need requires. You can never have too much light or too many options.

For references relating to continuous spectrum, I already provided links in a previous reply to this thread.

lilmomma · August 5, 2009

will any of the cheaper flashes work if i'm just keeping them off camera or do you guys suggest I stick with the ones mentioned?

like would these work??
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog{name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FT-1700-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=fe48aa1c-e3e8-46bb-983b-27dc842ee677

or this?
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FTD-5550-DX-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=a3785cf9-8b77-4581-a4e0-7925f17e8e58

If it's all going to be off camera anyway, what do I need to be looking for?

NeilL · August 5, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

will any of the cheaper flashes work if i'm just keeping them off camera or do you guys suggest I stick with the ones mentioned?

like would these work??
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog{name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FT-1700-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=fe48aa1c-e3e8-46bb-983b-27dc842ee677

or this?
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FTD-5550-DX-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=a3785cf9-8b77-4581-a4e0-7925f17e8e58

If it's all going to be off camera anyway, what do I need to be looking for?

I wish I could give you this information as fully and as entertainingly as David Hobby (Strobist) does in his Lighting Seminar. I don't think anyway that there is a short answer. What you are asking about is as much a "philosophy" of lighting as plain technique. So, although it will take you a day or two to get the Strobist way under your belt, I think you would get the most benefit from it, and have all your questions answered.

You need to be able to adjust power and spread and size and softness and color of light from your speedlights (by automatic electronics, or manual settings, umbrellas etc, filters etc, gobos etc) and your camera needs to be able to communicate with-trigger the flashes. That's it! (Without all the essential philosophy I mentioned).

N

ziggy53 · August 5, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

... If it's all going to be off camera anyway, what do I need to be looking for?

For a remotely operated flash you want a flash with manual output controls. It's also nice to have a fairly high output so that you can use modifiers to condition the light.

I do recommend the Vivitar 285HV as they have a proven track record for this application. They also have that ability to plug in simple slaves that I mentioned before.

lilmomma · August 5, 2009

ok sorry one more question! Do you think for now using my sb600 on a stand with the umbrella and using a reflector will work? I can build on it as time goes on but for a simple setup right now I am thinking about that.

divamum · August 5, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

ok sorry one more question! Do you think for now using my sb600 on a stand with the umbrella and using a reflector will work? I can build on it as time goes on but for a simple setup right now I am thinking about that.

Emphatically YES. Sending you a pm with some examples of something I was working on this morning....

Scott_Quier · August 5, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

ok sorry one more question! Do you think for now using my sb600 on a stand with the umbrella and using a reflector will work? I can build on it as time goes on but for a simple setup right now I am thinking about that.

Yes! And a cheap reflector (think white foam core board from a craft store) and you have a very good start.

ziggy53 · August 5, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

ok sorry one more question! Do you think for now using my sb600 on a stand with the umbrella and using a reflector will work? I can build on it as time goes on but for a simple setup right now I am thinking about that.

Since your camera can act as a "master" for the SB600, you can do this without any other purchase other than the stand, umbrella bracket and umbrella (although I thought you kept the umbrellas.)

A reflector or 2 can even help distribute light within the scene. Take a look here:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=92550

lilmomma · August 6, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

Since your camera can act as a "master" for the SB600, you can do this without any other purchase other than the stand, umbrella bracket and umbrella (although I thought you kept the umbrellas.)

So funny because my very initial intent was to get a lightstand, umbrella and bracket...then I started browsing around and thinking "what if" and that's when I get in trouble

i went through all that crap to end up getting what I planned on in the beginning. Well you live and learn right?

I do think that i'm going to take my gift card and buy another sb600 though, just because there's nothing else i will want to use it for at that store. the place is a little pricey for accessories that I can get cheaper somewhere online and out of pocket. Plus, the extra flash would be good to have as a backup.

Thanks for the help!!

Art Scott · August 6, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

Yes! And a cheap reflector (think white foam core board from a craft store) and you have a very good start.

agree

With strobes like the promaster who ahve been around for quite some time...but no one seems to use them.....most serious ametueurs and pros use brands that have been proven..........I get a real bad taste in my mouth when I see Promaster flash units........I had a flash that exploded on me just before a wedding in NW Arkansas and I was looking for another Viv285......I was gauranteed that this promaster that had a dedicated module on it was so much better than my elo cheapo Viv would be....(really young sales man)......any the neares one in their company was in Ft Smith and it could not be where i was (Bentonville / Bella Vista) until monday.....I bought the Promaster.......it was a peice of crap.......the ttl side did not work well at all.....It did not put out consistant flash power.....I meter all my wedding shots and I had a notebook full of notes on flash power setting and such....it was awful.

So now I stay with brands I know I can trust...Vivatar, SunPak, and other name brands.........

Good lcuk opn your shoot(s)

Art Scott · August 6, 2009

lilmomma wrote:

So funny because my very initial intent was to get a lightstand, umbrella and bracket...then I started browsing around and thinking "what if" and that's when I get in trouble i went through all that crap to end up getting what I planned on in the beginning. Well you live and learn right?

Always follow your first instincts(gut feeling), normally that will not lead you wrong

I do think that i'm going to take my gift card and buy another sb600 though, just because there's nothing else i will want to use it for at that store. the place is a little pricey for accessories that I can get cheaper somewhere online and out of pocket. Plus, the extra flash would be good to have as a backup.

If the gift card would allow for a SB900 then go for it as it is the flagship and I have not found any SB800 used for sale .....or new for that matter.......
Thanks for the help!!

above in bold

Scott_Quier · August 7, 2009

divamum wrote:

Emphatically YES. Sending you a pm with some examples of something I was working on this morning....

Just to follow up on this .... this image was captured using ONLY one off-camera strobe (a Sunpak 622) and shoot-through umbrella on a lightstand ...

You can read about the technique used on this page on the Strobist Lighting 101 series.

NeilL · August 7, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

Just to follow up on this .... this image was captured using ONLY one off-camera strobe (a Sunpak 622) and shoot-through umbrella on a lightstand ...

You can read about the technique used on this page on the Strobist Lighting 101 series.

That's nice, Scott. Well done!

N

advice on studio lighting?

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