Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.
Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts.
Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us.
No one's done anything against the rules here. I hope more SmugMug people do come check out DGrin, and the challenges, and the SM communities are one way to keep our own community here growing.
We have that running joke about "blind judges" because it's so very hard to put your hard work out there time after time and have it not be chosen. Trust me, I know. I do it all the time, and it, frankly, sucks. But every time I get passed up, I look at my work that much harder, and I look at what beat me out, and I figure out how to make it even better the next time.
Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, as long as it's done civilly and with respect. So let's keep to our good track record, eh?
As a final note: dear judges, I would be lost and so overwhelmed without each and every one of you who has stepped up, and continues to step up, to help keep these challenges running. Thank you so very much for the time you put in here. In short, you rock!
Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.
Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.
Thanks Kerry
emotions can carry us away and we type before we think sometimes.
Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.
Tatiana didn't attack anyone personally. She expressed an opinion. Do I agree with it? No. But she expressed it civilly, and I can contradict it civilly. The judges here put time and thought into their decisions, and they give more time to critiquing their picks. We can learn just as much from C&C on others' photos as we can on our own, but there are many other places we can seek out additional feedback on our own stuff.
I will defend our judges to my last breath. Just as I will defend every DGrin user on here...until they break the user agreement.
Now then, I have cats that need water and about one year's worth of RAW files to mourn as a corrupt drive ate them. Things need attendin' to.
Tatiana didn't attack anyone personally. She expressed an opinion. Do I agree with it? No. But she expressed it civilly, and I can contradict it civilly. The judges here put time and thought into their decisions, and they give more time to critiquing their picks. We can learn just as much from C&C on others' photos as we can on our own, but there are many other places we can seek out additional feedback on our own stuff.
I will defend our judges to my last breath. Just as I will defend every DGrin user on here...until they break the user agreement.
Now then, I have cats that need water and about one year's worth of RAW files to mourn as a corrupt drive ate them. Things need attendin' to.
... and I expressed my gratitude to the judges replies to my questions.
About the "ignoring list" I was sure you did that long time ago, Aaron - I have to thank you for that
The first is that you somehow thought not being selected was a personal attack, which baffles me. You're a respected contributor here, and the rotation of judges pretty much ensures that it can't become biased in that way. Besides, I've certainly never been aware of ANY kind of personal animosities spilling over into the ethics of judging. Sure, sometimes I think "huh? How could you blind judges include THAT shot!" (JOKING!!!) or "You're KIDDING me that So-and-so's shot wasn't included!" but that's the way it is in a subjective art. Tastes vary, and you're never going to change that! It's all good.
Secondly, how can judging photography be based on anything OTHER than likes and dislikes? Of course technical merit and theme-relevance are important, but art IS subjective - simply no way around it - and personal likes and dislikes are going to be part of it. When you were a judge a few rounds back didn't your own reactions come into play when you looked at those pictures?
As for feedback, I think it's important to distinguish between feedback, and validation. Getting selected as a finalist is *validation*, not critique; it tells us nothing more than that THAT judge on THAT day felt it was one of their favorite shots, and they included it. Sure, it makes us feel great but, really, it doesn't change the *image*. A different judge or even the same judge on a different day might have made a completely different decision. With the quality of entries in the challenges increasing exponentially, the competition is getting stiffer. EVERYBODY is having to work a little harder, and isn't necessarily getting the consistent *validation* they might have a while back.
Ultimately, all we can do is accept constructive feedback to improve our skills, and apply what we learn to every photo we take, striving for excellence at every opportunity. The DOING of it is sooo much more important than the results, or even than being VALIDATED (sure, it's nice, but it's really not what it's about IMO). Let your continued growth as a photographer be your validation rather than whether or not a judge selects your photo. Believe in your own art... sometimes against what other people may think (that's part of being an artist too - nobody ever said it was easy!)
In any case, sorry to beat the dead horse, but ... fwiw. On to #31!
The first is that you somehow thought not being selected was a personal attack, which baffles me. You're a respected contributor here, and the rotation of judges pretty much ensures that it can't become biased in that way. Besides, I've certainly never been aware of ANY kind of personal animosities spilling over into the ethics of judging. Sure, sometimes I think "huh? How could you blind judges include THAT shot!" (JOKING!!!) or "You're KIDDING me that So-and-so's shot wasn't included!" but that's the way it is in a subjective art. Tastes vary, and you're never going to change that! It's all good.
Secondly, how can judging photography be based on anything OTHER than likes and dislikes? Of course technical merit and theme-relevance are important, but art IS subjective - simply no way around it - and personal likes and dislikes are going to be part of it. When you were a judge a few rounds back didn't your own reactions come into play when you looked at those pictures?
As for feedback, I think it's important to distinguish between feedback, and validation. Getting selected as a finalist is *validation*, not critique; it tells us nothing more than that THAT judge on THAT day felt it was one of their favorite shots, and they included it. Sure, it makes us feel great but, really, it doesn't change the *image*. A different judge or even the same judge on a different day might have made a completely different decision. With the quality of entries in the challenges increasing exponentially, the competition is getting stiffer. EVERYBODY is having to work a little harder, and isn't necessarily getting the consistent *validation* they might have a while back.
Hi Divamum,
Thank you for comment. - My name is Tatiana.
I never said that "not being selected was a personal attack"
I was not even talking about this - my question was regarding my initial entry
versus my final entry. That's it.
- As I explained I thought there were entries better than mine there.
I do work hard regardless how many participants in the contest, because all I want is
to have a good entry, winner or not. Of course everybody would like to be a winner -
When I had to judge, I did a HARD work and almost passed the 24 hour limit of submitting
the results - this because I expressly wanted to be as much objective, and as less subjective
as possible. Not only that I used to be an engineer and like accuracy, but I wanted to make
sure I will not offend anybody with a bad judgement, from all points of view.
I know even though there were unhappy people, but I tried to put every details and aspects
into balance, including the feelings of course, but not mainly the feelings.
Ultimately, all we can do is accept constructive feedback to improve our skills, and apply what we learn to every photo we take, striving for excellence at every opportunity. The DOING of it is sooo much more important than the results, or even than being VALIDATED (sure, it's nice, but it's really not what it's about IMO). Let your continued growth as a photographer be your validation rather than whether or not a judge selects your photo. Believe in your own art... sometimes against what other people may think (that's part of being an artist too - nobody ever said it was easy!)
This is exactly what I was saying...
In any case, sorry to beat the dead horse, but ... fwiw. On to #31!
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Now, I'm sorry but it has been a along day for me so I'll stop here.
Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.
Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts.
Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us.
No one's done anything against the rules here. I hope more SmugMug people do come check out DGrin, and the challenges, and the SM communities are one way to keep our own community here growing.
We have that running joke about "blind judges" because it's so very hard to put your hard work out there time after time and have it not be chosen. Trust me, I know. I do it all the time, and it, frankly, sucks. But every time I get passed up, I look at my work that much harder, and I look at what beat me out, and I figure out how to make it even better the next time.
Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, as long as it's done civilly and with respect. So let's keep to our good track record, eh?
As a final note: dear judges, I would be lost and so overwhelmed without each and every one of you who has stepped up, and continues to step up, to help keep these challenges running. Thank you so very much for the time you put in here. In short, you rock!
Kerry,
Ok.. So what you are saying is that I am personally attacking someone?
I do not feel that is what I was doing by having an opinion. I did not cuss or call names or even get nasty... I just spoke my opinion plainly... scratch
So I am threatened with a banning for having a well spoken plain and too the point opinion ?
Also, I never said anything at all about the judges, that was not methat was photobug.. not me.. I have never had a problem with the judges ever...not once...
So, I guess ban me.. but it seems rather to keep a valid point buried, and I suppose there won't be anyone speaking up on it with the fear of being banned.... It was not my intention to attack anyone, I was just voicing my concerns based on my observations...
I have noticed of late on smug that you have to really roll your words in sugar. That is not my style.. I can understand if I was cussing or slandering someone or being outright cruel or immature, but I was NOT.... I am big on rules and respect you Kerry, but I don't feel I was breeching any rules....
Donna, "I did" think my statement through carefully before I typed it out... I even went and looked over the dailys and read the statements there as well as some of the mentioned communities.. I do not shoot from the hip..
And since real issues cause such a stir and stress, I will out of respect for you Kerry, cease with my comments and stay off the main boards..
you better not stop on these boards Kat, or there will be protest and the beginning of a mass strike until you come back! .... dont think It can be done?
Kat, it was your second post that began to border on a personal attack and was what spurred my warning. Your first, while heated, was not directed at anyone personally. The post you quote above was in response to both your post and Tatiana's. I was never accusing you of saying anything about the judges.
Yes, speak up, let your opinions be known, but please be respectful while doing so. This doesn't mean "sugar-coating," but it also doesn't mean accusing an entire community of doing something wrong.
I just needed to jump in here to say, thanks everyone for the props and critique in the gallery comments on my shot! And for those who were wondering about the white thing above the gardeners head... It's a sign that says grapes with a grape cluster painted on it... I left it there on purpose to see how many people would say it was a distraction Jeff Meyers was the only one... congratulations Jeff! rofl
I just needed to jump in here to say, thanks everyone for the props and critique in the gallery comments on my shot! And for those who were wondering about the white thing above the gardeners head... It's a sign that says grapes with a grape cluster painted on it... I left it there on purpose to see how many people would say it was a distraction Jeff Meyers was the only one... congratulations Jeff! rofl
Well, to me also the sunflower was a distraction, but I didn't want to say it, because (as you told us)
you needed the best photo to show your wife that you can do a good photo of her... and I was sure you will show her the comments under your entry
Ok.. So what you are saying is that I am personally attacking someone?
I do not feel that is what I was doing by having an opinion. I did not cuss or call names or even get nasty... I just spoke my opinion plainly... scratch
So I am threatened with a banning for having a well spoken plain and too the point opinion ?
Also, I never said anything at all about the judges, that was not methat was photobug.. not me.. I have never had a problem with the judges ever...not once...
So, I guess ban me.. but it seems rather to keep a valid point buried, and I suppose there won't be anyone speaking up on it with the fear of being banned.... It was not my intention to attack anyone, I was just voicing my concerns based on my observations...
I have noticed of late on smug that you have to really roll your words in sugar. That is not my style.. I can understand if I was cussing or slandering someone or being outright cruel or immature, but I was NOT.... I am big on rules and respect you Kerry, but I don't feel I was breeching any rules....
Donna, "I did" think my statement through carefully before I typed it out... I even went and looked over the dailys and read the statements there as well as some of the mentioned communities.. I do not shoot from the hip..
And since real issues cause such a stir and stress, I will out of respect for you Kerry, cease with my comments and stay off the main boards..
Kat
Yikes Kat! I can honestly say that i crawl through all the c&c threads, looking for ways and tips on how to improve. I certainly hope u continue, cuz there won't be much to read that is as indepth as your critiques.
Yikes Kat! I can honestly say that i crawl through all the c&c threads, looking for ways and tips on how to improve. I certainly hope u continue, cuz there won't be much to read that is as indepth as your critiques.
What he said!
Karin
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
Yikes. You guys are kind of scary now. Don't scare us newbies off here! I talked one person in to doing dgrin challenges, so I feel kind of responsible for what he sees . . .
Let's all just enjoy our evenings and get back to photo work on another topic tomorrow (or whenever we can).
I have really enjoyed the dgrin forum and want it to remain professional and friendly, and this is the first time ever I've seen anything start spiraling downward (Okay, okay, so I have only lurked for a short time, but you know what I mean).
Comments
Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.
Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts.
Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us.
No one's done anything against the rules here. I hope more SmugMug people do come check out DGrin, and the challenges, and the SM communities are one way to keep our own community here growing.
We have that running joke about "blind judges" because it's so very hard to put your hard work out there time after time and have it not be chosen. Trust me, I know. I do it all the time, and it, frankly, sucks. But every time I get passed up, I look at my work that much harder, and I look at what beat me out, and I figure out how to make it even better the next time.
Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, as long as it's done civilly and with respect. So let's keep to our good track record, eh?
As a final note: dear judges, I would be lost and so overwhelmed without each and every one of you who has stepped up, and continues to step up, to help keep these challenges running. Thank you so very much for the time you put in here. In short, you rock!
emotions can carry us away and we type before we think sometimes.
My SmugMug
Thank you Kerry
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
[now trying to lighten the mood....]
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Wrong - I didn't personally attacked anybody - but watch your comments
* BTW: let's stop this. OK?
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
In respect for Kerry, your my first person to put on a ignore list... never thought i would ever do that....
I will defend our judges to my last breath. Just as I will defend every DGrin user on here...until they break the user agreement.
Now then, I have cats that need water and about one year's worth of RAW files to mourn as a corrupt drive ate them. Things need attendin' to.
... and I expressed my gratitude to the judges replies to my questions.
About the "ignoring list" I was sure you did that long time ago, Aaron - I have to thank you for that
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
Two comments of yours which perplex me:
The first is that you somehow thought not being selected was a personal attack, which baffles me. You're a respected contributor here, and the rotation of judges pretty much ensures that it can't become biased in that way. Besides, I've certainly never been aware of ANY kind of personal animosities spilling over into the ethics of judging. Sure, sometimes I think "huh? How could you blind judges include THAT shot!" (JOKING!!!) or "You're KIDDING me that So-and-so's shot wasn't included!" but that's the way it is in a subjective art. Tastes vary, and you're never going to change that! It's all good.
Secondly, how can judging photography be based on anything OTHER than likes and dislikes? Of course technical merit and theme-relevance are important, but art IS subjective - simply no way around it - and personal likes and dislikes are going to be part of it. When you were a judge a few rounds back didn't your own reactions come into play when you looked at those pictures?
As for feedback, I think it's important to distinguish between feedback, and validation. Getting selected as a finalist is *validation*, not critique; it tells us nothing more than that THAT judge on THAT day felt it was one of their favorite shots, and they included it. Sure, it makes us feel great but, really, it doesn't change the *image*. A different judge or even the same judge on a different day might have made a completely different decision. With the quality of entries in the challenges increasing exponentially, the competition is getting stiffer. EVERYBODY is having to work a little harder, and isn't necessarily getting the consistent *validation* they might have a while back.
Ultimately, all we can do is accept constructive feedback to improve our skills, and apply what we learn to every photo we take, striving for excellence at every opportunity. The DOING of it is sooo much more important than the results, or even than being VALIDATED (sure, it's nice, but it's really not what it's about IMO). Let your continued growth as a photographer be your validation rather than whether or not a judge selects your photo. Believe in your own art... sometimes against what other people may think (that's part of being an artist too - nobody ever said it was easy!)
In any case, sorry to beat the dead horse, but ... fwiw. On to #31!
Hi Divamum,
Thank you for comment. - My name is Tatiana.
I never said that "not being selected was a personal attack"
I was not even talking about this - my question was regarding my initial entry
versus my final entry. That's it.
- As I explained I thought there were entries better than mine there.
I do work hard regardless how many participants in the contest, because all I want is
to have a good entry, winner or not. Of course everybody would like to be a winner -
When I had to judge, I did a HARD work and almost passed the 24 hour limit of submitting
the results - this because I expressly wanted to be as much objective, and as less subjective
as possible. Not only that I used to be an engineer and like accuracy, but I wanted to make
sure I will not offend anybody with a bad judgement, from all points of view.
I know even though there were unhappy people, but I tried to put every details and aspects
into balance, including the feelings of course, but not mainly the feelings.
This is exactly what I was saying...
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Now, I'm sorry but it has been a along day for me so I'll stop here.
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
Kerry,
Ok.. So what you are saying is that I am personally attacking someone?
I do not feel that is what I was doing by having an opinion. I did not cuss or call names or even get nasty... I just spoke my opinion plainly...
So I am threatened with a banning for having a well spoken plain and too the point opinion ?
Also, I never said anything at all about the judges, that was not me that was photobug.. not me.. I have never had a problem with the judges ever...not once...
So, I guess ban me.. but it seems rather to keep a valid point buried, and I suppose there won't be anyone speaking up on it with the fear of being banned.... It was not my intention to attack anyone, I was just voicing my concerns based on my observations...
I have noticed of late on smug that you have to really roll your words in sugar. That is not my style.. I can understand if I was cussing or slandering someone or being outright cruel or immature, but I was NOT.... I am big on rules and respect you Kerry, but I don't feel I was breeching any rules....
Donna, "I did" think my statement through carefully before I typed it out... I even went and looked over the dailys and read the statements there as well as some of the mentioned communities.. I do not shoot from the hip..
And since real issues cause such a stir and stress, I will out of respect for you Kerry, cease with my comments and stay off the main boards..
Kat
Yes, speak up, let your opinions be known, but please be respectful while doing so. This doesn't mean "sugar-coating," but it also doesn't mean accusing an entire community of doing something wrong.
Well, to me also the sunflower was a distraction, but I didn't want to say it, because (as you told us)
you needed the best photo to show your wife that you can do a good photo of her... and I was sure you will show her the comments under your entry
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
Sports Fan
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
Shoot, I knew I should have entered this one.
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
:nono :jawdrop :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
I would have voted for this one too - perfect environment portrait
... and I probably should have entered this one:
Happy Free Man
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
Yikes Kat! I can honestly say that i crawl through all the c&c threads, looking for ways and tips on how to improve. I certainly hope u continue, cuz there won't be much to read that is as indepth as your critiques.
Nelson Lehner
Dreamin' of a resolution!:D
What he said!
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
I'm beginning to think you have a thing for Bus Drivers...
Let's all just enjoy our evenings and get back to photo work on another topic tomorrow (or whenever we can).
I have really enjoyed the dgrin forum and want it to remain professional and friendly, and this is the first time ever I've seen anything start spiraling downward (Okay, okay, so I have only lurked for a short time, but you know what I mean).
Peace, love and photography.
Kara
about.me/karastewart