Not able to tag with a two letter "word"?

Nicci · November 12, 2010

For instance, I do a lot of DJ events and would like to tag photos with "DJ" so my clients can easily find the photos of the DJ's rather than have to sort through patron photos as well. But I noticed when I tag with "DJ" and search, the photos do not show in the search results.

Allen · November 12, 2010

Tecnicole wrote: »

For instance, I do a lot of DJ events and would like to tag photos with "DJ" so my clients can easily find the photos of the DJ's rather than have to sort through patron photos as well. But I noticed when I tag with "DJ" and search, the photos do not show in the search results.

I see double quotes in your post, are you adding the double quotes on each DJ keyword?
Perhaps use "DJ's" as the keyword with or without quotes.

Nicci · November 12, 2010

no, i do not use the quotes

i would like to be able to tag: DJ

if i have to tell every client to use DJ's it could easily be forgotten or used incorrectly

so is it a safe assumption that the search function will not work with two letter words? one of my clients is RA and i would like to tag their photos with "RA" (no quotes) so this is a bit frustrating if so.

Allen · November 12, 2010

Tecnicole wrote: »

no, i do not use the quotes

i would like to be able to tag: DJ

if i have to tell every client to use DJ's it could easily be forgotten or used incorrectly

so is it a safe assumption that the search function will not work with two letter words? one of my clients is RA and i would like to tag their photos with "RA" (no quotes) so this is a bit frustrating if so.

Without the quotes small keywords do not work I think. Did you try a couple
and look at your keyword page to see if they showed up?
http://photos.humansafterall.com/keyword/

Remember, keywords are not visible or searchable from passworded or unlisted
galleries, only to you when logged in.

Nicci · November 12, 2010

they show in the keyword list but do not work when i search for them

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Tecnicole wrote: »

they show in the keyword list but do not work when i search for them

Two-letter keywords do not index. I wish they did, because I have state name abbreviations like PA in my lists. There was a list of keywording parameters around here somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Yes, you'll still see the words in your list under each photo, but if you notice, click on "edit" it'll probably say "indexing" beside it. That means they're not searchable.

Allen · November 12, 2010

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Two-letter keywords do not index. I wish they did, because I have state name abbreviations like PA in my lists. There was a list of keywording parameters around here somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Yes, you'll still see the words in your list under each photo, but if you notice, click on "edit" it'll probably say "indexing" beside it. That means they're not searchable.

State abbrev. probably have to be added to to show. How about adding
single quotes inside the double quotes? The single quotes will show and they'll
sort first on your keyword page. Don't know of any other work-a-round.

"'Pa'"

I added 07 and Mo to photo keywords and they show on keyword page.
http://www.photosbyat.com/keyword/
Search doesn't work but they might not be indexed yet.

Will remove these later.

Andy · November 12, 2010

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Two-letter keywords do not index.

Indeed they do. Go here http://cmac.smugmug.com/ search for qq or ra or dj or pa in the search box.

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Allen wrote: »

State abbrev. probably have to be added to to show. How about adding
single quotes inside the double quotes? The single quotes will show and they'll
sort first on your keyword page. Don't know of any other work-a-round.

"'Pa'"

I don't think this would solve the desire to make them searchable, however. In other words, if someone searches for PA, the system will still say none are available I believe

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Andy wrote: »

Indeed they do. Go here http://cmac.smugmug.com/ search for qq or ra or dj or pa in the search box.

I get 00 results on all counts. Same with searching all SmugMug galleries. We've been told all this before-- there was a whole thread about keywords here, where we had people all freaked out about it. Anyway, I've got a whole bunch of files with state names and other 2-letter words, and they all still say "indexing", and will say that forever unless we eventually have 2 letter keywords that do index. Andy, if you're getting something different, I would sure LOVE to know how.

Andy · November 12, 2010

Hi Anna Lisa,

Andy · November 12, 2010

You can re-generate those stuck keywords, by toggling the SmugIslands settings in your gallery, Anna Lisa - set hello smuggers to no, save, then yes, save.

Nicci · November 12, 2010

If you go to my page,
http://photos.humansafterall.com/

and search for "dj" (no quotes) no photos are found even though i have photos with dj in the keywords

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Andy wrote: »

You can re-generate those stuck keywords, by toggling the SmugIslands settings in your gallery, Anna Lisa - set hello smuggers to no, save, then yes, save.

I've been trying to figure out what's going on. What do you mean by "stuck keywords"? Did something change very recently? Because this is what I read in the Keyword Help section:

1 and 2-character English words, and common words such as and will be ignored unless you enclose them in quotes.
1 and 2-character non-English words are acceptable.

Are those statements wrong?

The last time I checked my keywords in-depth (which was within the last 3-4 weeks) I still found a whole bunch of galleries with keywords such as PA or NJ or NY in them, and they were all still indexing, after months or years. I "knew" 2-letter words were no longer acceptable. So I cleaned up a bunch of them; i.e. got rid of the 2-letter ones!! According to the Help section, they were never going to index. (I didn't know about adding quotes around them, but mine didn't have quotes, so it would not have helped) Are you telling me I JUST got rid of these, and now they're going to index?? Oh Lord help me.

So.... uh... I'm just completely confused now. I got 00 minutes ago when you told me to check results. Now I get 1 keyword result for those keywords you gave.

And I just added a few test keywords to some files. They don't even say "indexing" beside them... I mean, not even immediately!! Normally, if you check your keywords under the photo, they will all still say "indexing" for at least a few minutes while they get added to the system. Eventually, only the unacceptable ones will say "indexing" What's going on ????

Andy · November 12, 2010

Hi Anna Lisa, I'll re-check our documentation - we surely don't want to confuse you!

http://annalisa.smugmug.com/keyword/hc#732223245_8uFBH is a two-letter keyword, indexed on your site. It's not findable by public search because the photo is in an unlisted gallery.

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Definitely something different happening... today at least. The photo I just added PA to, with no quotation marks... it's already indexed and searchable using the word PA . It never said "indexing" at all. And yes, a lot of photos (577 actually) that I hadn't yet cleaned up, which still have the word PA on them, come up in the search. That doesn't help you, Nicole. One thing you could check on... I just noticed in the Keyword Help section that SmugMug doesn't index more than 30 keywords. ( I'd forgotten this). So if you have more than 30, perhaps that's why they're not showing. Now, I do not know how they start counting the keywords. Hopefully they take them in the order you listed them. If they go alphabetically, yikes, that could screw you up if you put the more important ones first.

But having said all that... according to Keyword Help, your 2-letter word such as DJ should only be showing up if you enclose it in quotes. It sounds like Keyword Help needs to be gone through with a fine-toothed comb though, so we'd better sit tight & find out what Andy learns.

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

Andy wrote: »

Hi Anna Lisa, I'll re-check our documentation - we surely don't want to confuse you!

http://annalisa.smugmug.com/keyword/hc#732223245_8uFBH is a two-letter keyword, indexed on your site. It's not findable by public search because the photo is in an unlisted gallery.

Yeah, that's a product shot keyworded in metadata by a manufacturer. I didn't clean any of them up, since they're all unlisted anyway. I only worked on cleaning up the visible ones, since a few weeks ago they were still saying "indexing" and I didn't see the point of having them on the files.

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

I found these release notes in another thread: http://news.smugmug.com/2009/12/11/card-keyword-upgrades-direct-deposit/

1 and 2-character keywords used to require quotes, but no more. For example, 12, 5, would be added as keywords.

I don't know for certain that's the latest word on this. It makes me think, however, that what happened on my site, and presumably most sites, is that the photos that were keyworded before this change were, indeed, "stuck"... if that's what you meant by "stuck", Andy. (you didn't explain, so I'm deducing here). In other words, they were saying "indexing" if they were keyworded with something like PA back before the change took place? And they were in that case not searchable?

So it sounds like if we would do what Andy is saying and toggle the "Hello Smuggers" setting, those words following old rules would now learn to follow the new rules? I'm not going to do it before I hear back though. I wonder if this would also help my photos that still have ancient filenames on them, long after I have disabled filename keywording in my global settings? Please let me know, as I would love to finally be rid of those filename keywords.

Allen · November 12, 2010

I like the idea of all the states having single quotes added, that way they all
sort together in the KW listing and will be very obvious they are states. Not
strung out throughout.

SPK64 · November 12, 2010

Tecnicole wrote: »

If you go to my page,
http://photos.humansafterall.com/

and search for "dj" (no quotes) no photos are found even though i have photos with dj in the keywords

It is true that no photos are found but
a keyword with dj is found and it has 22 photos
image2.jpg

WinsomeWorks · November 12, 2010

SPK64 wrote: »

It is true that no photos are found but
a keyword with dj is found and it has 22 photos
image2.jpg

Those 3 areas that the searches bring up are awfully confusing. It should say

Keywords-- Results: 22 Photos

Galleries-- Results: 3 Galleries

Captions-- Results: 15 Photos etc.

My point is that the average visitor would be wondering what the difference is, and when they see the results saying 22 keywords, they have no reason to know they should click on that result to realize that means 22 photos have come up that use that keyword.

SPK64 · November 12, 2010

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Those 3 areas that the searches bring up are awfully confusing. It should say

Keywords-- Results: 22 Photos

Galleries-- Results: 3 Galleries

Captions-- Results: 15 Photos etc.

My point is that the average visitor would be wondering what the difference is, and when they see the results saying 22 keywords, they have no reason to know they should click on that result to realize that means 22 photos have come up that use that keyword.

I would agree with that. Me being used to the results knew what it meant.
A new first time user would be totally confused unless they started randomly clicking around.

jfriend · November 12, 2010

Andy wrote: »

Hi Anna Lisa,

When I saw this screen, I did not think there were any search results there. This is not a good UI. Lots of people in this thread are reporting that they had no idea there were search results there.

Andy · November 12, 2010

jfriend wrote: »

When I saw this screen, I did not think there were any search results there. This is not a good UI. Lots of people in this thread are reporting that they had no idea there were search results there.

No question - we want to improve it

We'll get there!

essaytee · November 13, 2010

This 2 letter keyword/search thing has just this week bitten me. Prior to uploading I keyworded photos including bib numbers of runners ie. 1, 2, 3, 98, 99, 100 etc. I got no search results on numbers 1 - 99. The results page does not even show a keyword 'hit list', merely the fact that the particular gallery has zero results on search. I then modified all the 2 digit length numbers to three digit numbers (1 became 001). I've just noticed that the keyword result hit list only comes up when not searching directly from a gallery, which is sort of pointless for me since bib number 1 or 10 can appear in many different galleries and for my purposes is useless.

SPK64 · November 13, 2010

essaytee wrote: »

This 2 letter keyword/search thing has just this week bitten me. Prior to uploading I keyworded photos including bib numbers of runners ie. 1, 2, 3, 98, 99, 100 etc. I got no search results on numbers 1 - 99. The results page does not even show a keyword 'hit list', merely the fact that the particular gallery has zero results on search. I then modified all the 2 digit length numbers to three digit numbers (1 became 001). I've just noticed that the keyword result hit list only comes up when not searching directly from a gallery, which is sort of pointless for me since bib number 1 or 10 can appear in many different galleries and for my purposes is useless.

I think they need to be in quotes. I typically enclose all my numbers in quotes since this was required at one time for years to show up properly.

Luc De Jaeger · November 13, 2010

Andy wrote: »

No question - we want to improve it We'll get there!

Thanks so much for letting us know because John's right... It's really a very confusing UI.

SmugMug forever

Luc

WinsomeWorks · November 13, 2010

Andy wrote: »

No question - we want to improve it We'll get there!

Any update on what the real, actual, definitive rules are about 2-letter words? I would also like to know exactly what you meant by "sticky" keywords-- I think I get it, but I want to be sure.

I would also like to know how the 30-word limit on keywords is taken. (from the top of my lists down, or alphabetically, or what?) This makes a difference to me, because any shots I've keyworded for stock may have up to 50 keywords, since that's my typical limit on the stock agencies I'm with. Lately, I've tried to put the most important ones first, but earlier files may not be listed that way. So, I thank you for anything you could find out about that.

Andy · November 13, 2010

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

I would also like to know how the 30-word limit on keywords is taken. (from the top of my lists down, or alphabetically, or what?) This makes a difference to me, because any shots I've keyworded for stock may have up to 50 keywords, since that's my typical limit on the stock agencies I'm with. Lately, I've tried to put the most important ones first, but earlier files may not be listed that way. So, I thank you for anything you could find out about that.

The first 30 we come to.

WinsomeWorks · November 17, 2010

2-letter keyword confusion - please advise
Could we please get a definitive word on this two-letter keyword thing? I still don't know what is correct on this issue, and last night would have used state abbreviations, had I gotten an answer. I thought we were going to hear back:

(see posts #25, 18, 14 for a refresher on the confusion, if needed)

1. Do two-letter English words need to be in quotes in order to be indexed and searchable?

2. Is the Keyword Help section wrong or right? (it says 2-letter English words will not index)

3. Why were 2-letter keywords still showing as "indexing" until recently? (did something just change with the 2-letter thing?)

4. Could I have an explanation of exactly what "stuck" keywords are? I have an idea what you mean, but not precisely. I need to know precisely before I go changing something.

Andy · November 17, 2010

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

1. Do two-letter English words need to be in quotes in order to be indexed and searchable?

No.

2. Is the Keyword Help section wrong or right? (it says 2-letter English words will not index)

It is incorrect, we'll update it.

3. Why were 2-letter keywords still showing as "indexing" until recently? (did something just change with the 2-letter thing?)

I'll try and find out.

4. Could I have an explanation of exactly what "stuck" keywords are? I have an idea what you mean, but not precisely. I need to know precisely before I go changing something.

It means for whatever reason, if you see 'indexing' after a long time (like more than a day) then they didn't index. Toggle hello smuggers off and on, that will cause a re-index of that gallery.

Not able to tag with a two letter "word"?

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