No matter how a photo comes into a gallery, it should rotate 90 degrees clockwise if I tell it to. Simple as that, right?
I'm really sorry you are so upset about this
Yes, we are looking at this, that is why I took the trouble to get your files. Yes, we're spending a ton of time trying to replicate this issue that as far as I know, is affecting two out of all of our customers - you and Samir. But no matter, we'd love to get to the bottom of it!
Cameras that are set properly for auto rotation will upload to SmugMug and be automatically presented in the proper rotation, thus causing you to not have to use our rotate tool at all. That is why I took the time to ask about that, Anna Lisa.
We will continue to investigate this issue. Would love to hear from anyone else that is experiencing the same issue, please do post here.
Yes, we are looking at this, that is why I took the trouble to get your files. Yes, we're spending a ton of time trying to replicate this issue that as far as I know, is affecting two out of all of our customers - you and Samir. But no matter, we'd love to get to the bottom of it!
Cameras that are set properly for auto rotation will upload to SmugMug and be automatically presented in the proper rotation, thus causing you to not have to use our rotate tool at all. That is why I took the time to ask about that, Anna Lisa.
We will continue to investigate this issue. Would love to hear from anyone else that is experiencing the same issue, please do post here.
Thanks!
Ok, the problem comes when you already asked about that. I only get upset when we've been through the same things over & over & I've given you the same answers. People are using the rotate tool all the time. I've uploaded photos from at least five different cameras to multiple places & it's not like any place ever "gets it right" on every photo, including here. It's just not possible right now... technology is evidently limited; imagine that. That's why we have a rotate tool. I've said this, but it's not getting heard.
I also get upset when we're hearing nothing in terms of real tests from inside. This is a quote from way back: "... And I've passed all this info to my Product Manager and sorcerers..." but it feels like nothing came of it. NO one is saying what happened to Sean's research. Is he available, gone, or what? And in post #30 or so, you're able to show Samir what he did with his photos. Do all these other photos we've both posted since have the same info available? If so, you should be able to see what I did w/ my photo.
Ok, the problem comes when you already asked about that. I only get upset when we've been through the same things over & over & I've given you the same answers. People are using the rotate tool all the time. I've uploaded photos from at least five different cameras to multiple places & it's not like any place ever "gets it right" on every photo, including here. It's just not possible right now... technology is evidently limited; imagine that. That's why we have a rotate tool. I've said this, but it's not getting heard.
I also get upset when we're hearing nothing in terms of real tests from inside. This is a quote from way back: "... And I've passed all this info to my Product Manager and sorcerers..." but it feels like nothing came of it. NO one is saying what happened to Sean's research. Is he available, gone, or what? And in post #30 or so, you're able to show Samir what he did with his photos. Do all these other photos we've both posted since have the same info available? If so, you should be able to see what I did w/ my photo.
We ARE testing. We have not reliably reproduced this in a way that our Sorcerers can tell what's happening to you. Please, let us continue, thanks. I have replied to everything in this thread, we're looking at it, and working on it. Can't say how, when, or if we'll nail this. But we're sure going to try.
4. We still haven't heard what has happened to all the research & testing that Sean did with Samir. This is frustrating. It should be obvious why Samir is saying the current mode of testing is a waste of time.... for heaven's sakes, he went to a lot of time & energy & generated a lot of data with someone who was evidently looking at it from a much deeper angle, and now... nothing. No word about it from SmugMug, no follow-through with actual results... just a much less scientific test, and no reference to all the work that's come before. You really can't get on people's case for getting upset when they've put in so much time to try to help & then it all just drops off a cliff. Understand, please, that it feels like we had a broken leg, went through the MRI, the doc lost the data & so now we're having our leg poked instead.
Well said. I don't think I could've worded the issue better. Love the leg analogy.
Is your Nikon D1X camera not able to be set for auto-rotation? When set properly, cameras put a tag in the EXIF in the file, said tag let's us automatically do the right thing.
I haven't seen rotation to be an issue with a camera with an orientation sensor. I only uploaded about 1000 images when I rented one, but I don't remember having an issue.
That being said, this is about the rotate tool when it is being manually used. Instead of sidelining the issue, let's just address the issue in its pure form: image needs rotation, image rotated, imagine not rotated properly by SM. The orientation sensor is irrelevant.
I haven't seen rotation to be an issue with a camera with an orientation sensor. I only uploaded about 1000 images when I rented one, but I don't remember having an issue.
That being said, this is about the rotate tool when it is being manually used. Instead of sidelining the issue, let's just address the issue in its pure form: image needs rotation, image rotated, imagine not rotated properly by SM. The orientation sensor is irrelevant.
Hi Samir, I'm sorry you feel that the issue is being sidelined Dunno how many more times, or how differently I can say this: we are working on it. It's been impossible to reliably replicate. Thanks.
There's a setting in the camera that will auto-rotate. Check into that and see if your camera can be set that way. Same for your Olympus. Standing by
There are times when you don't want an orientation sensor to auto-rotate. Even if my cameras had one, I wouldn't use it because it alters the original from the one I have, removing the ability for me to compare that the image I have is the same one SM got, bit-for-bit. Again, instead of trying to derail the true issue here, let's address it.
I have replied to everything in this thread, we're looking at it, and working on it. Can't say how, when, or if we'll nail this.
Anna Lisa, it's time to give up on this. Andy's got other things that need to be done beside address our concerns on this. It's time to just live with it.
And feel free to curse SM at the top of your lungs when it gets too annoying. It does help relieve the stress.
Anna Lisa, it's time to give up on this. Andy's got other things that need to be done beside address our concerns on this. It's time to just live with it.
And feel free to curse SM at the top of your lungs when it gets too annoying. It does help relieve the stress.
You can't be further from the truth. I'm working on it as we speak. Why on earth would you say such a thing, Samir? I have posted over and over that we ARE WORKING on it. We have images, and we have testing going on. What more can I say about it? Posts like the one you just made are distracting me from actually doing said work.
When are these times? I can't imagine not using auto rotate, ever.
If you want to tangent into this discussion, I'll oblige you.
There are times when an image uploaded to SM isn't the same as your original, even when it looks correct. This isn't important for web viewing, but could cause problems with printing. So, the best way to make sure you have the correct image in your gallery is to use the new 'download all' feature and compare the gallery images with your original files. If you find something amiss, you can re-upload the image. I don't see this very often, but it happens enough that I do it. And the issue isn't on SM's side, it's probably just something along the path from my modem to SM. I just want to make that clear. This is transferring over http after all. It's not going to be robust like ftp.
This works all fine and dandy until you allow auto-rotation via a sensor. When an image is rotated, it is altered from the original, so a comparison with the original will show that the files are different.
Now, I know that most everyone isn't comparing their uploaded files, but I have to make sure. (For some reason if I don't double and triple check everything in my life like this, something always happens that bites me in the butt that never happens to anyone else. I've attributed this to perpetual bad luck.)
The other scenario is when the orientation sensor will get it wrong like when shooting at odd angles. And as a working pro Andy, I'm shocked you didn't think of this situation.
If you want to tangent into this discussion, I'll oblige you.
There are times when an image uploaded to SM isn't the same as your original, even when it looks correct. This isn't important for web viewing, but could cause problems with printing. So, the best way to make sure you have the correct image in your gallery is to use the new 'download all' feature and compare the gallery images with your original files. If you find something amiss, you can re-upload the image. I don't see this very often, but it happens enough that I do it. And the issue isn't on SM's side, it's probably just something along the path from my modem to SM. I just want to make that clear. This is transferring over http after all. It's not going to be robust like ftp.
This works all fine and dandy until you allow auto-rotation via a sensor. When an image is rotated, it is altered from the original, so a comparison with the original will show that the files are different.
Now, I know that most everyone isn't comparing their uploaded files, but I have to make sure. (For some reason if I don't double and triple check everything in my life like this, something always happens that bites me in the butt that never happens to anyone else. I've attributed this to perpetual bad luck.)
The other scenario is when the orientation sensor will get it wrong like when shooting at odd angles. And as a working pro Andy, I'm shocked you didn't think of this situation.
Samir, I'm sure you realize that most of us find auto-rotation works great 99.9% of the time and for the occasional shot at an odd angle, I manually fix the rotation in Lightroom. I would never shoot without auto-rotation. It saves me a ton of time. So, if you really would never use it, you have to realize that your workflow is not the way most people do things and not what external processes might be streamlined for.
FYI, I never rely on Smugmug to do auto-rotation for me. I shoot RAW, process in Lightroom, export already-rotated JPEGS from Lightroom and upload those to Smugmug.
You can't be further from the truth. I'm working on it as we speak. Why on earth would you say such a thing, Samir? I have posted over and over that we ARE WORKING on it. We have images, and we have testing going on. What more can I say about it? Posts like the one you just made are distracting me from actually doing said work.
It's the lack of answer to my #4 that makes him (& me) say such a thing : "4. We still haven't heard what has happened to all the research & testing that Sean did ...."
It's the lack of answer to my #4 that makes him (& me) say such a thing : "4. We still haven't heard what has happened to all the research & testing that Sean did ...."
I'm testing. Sean's research hasn't proved out yet. And we have no replicable case we can give a sorcerer on our test bed where said sorcerer could go attempt to fix.
Andy, I'll give you a test bed if you want. The same test Sean and I performed. You'll have to do upload it and rotate the images about 10-20 different times while watching everything on the back end to start getting an idea of what's going on. I believe it was only about 100-300mb of images. Let me know if you want this and I'll PM you the 'download all' link.
Frustration Andy. Pure, raw, unrelenting frustration. Not just with this, but with numerous things today--the stupid login screen, uploading, on my main site new user emails not going to the inbox, cameras not ready for an event in two hours, 4 tires that I have to rotate while it's nice outside and I'm inside fighting uploading garbage.
I haven't hit a keyboard in a long time, but I did today. My hand is still hurting from it. It's a good thing these IBM M's are built really well. It's a bad thing that the frustration levels have gotten this high.
Frustration Andy. Pure, raw, unrelenting frustration. Not just with this, but with numerous things today--
I'm very sorry you are so frustrated. I do suggest following the advice that I and John give - I shoot 1000s and 1000s of images in a week. Can't imagine using SmugMug to do my rotation for me when it's handled perfectly by excellent local software. Hope you day brightens!
I wish I could invest in a post process. But since I can't even invest in modern computers or a dslr, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Sometime I feel like I'm running a marathon with someone taking a baseball bat to my knees every so often. I get up and continue after I heal, but it's a really hard way to run a race.
I wish I could invest in a post process. But since I can't even invest in modern computers or a dslr, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Sometime I feel like I'm running a marathon with someone taking a baseball bat to my knees every so often. I get up and continue after I heal, but it's a really hard way to run a race.
I had no idea that Gimp was this powerful, or that it ran on windows machines like I have. And with the ability to publish directly to FTP, and the new smugftp, there may be a batchable post process that's within my reach.
I had no idea that Gimp was this powerful, or that it ran on windows machines like I have. And with the ability to publish directly to FTP, and the new smugftp, there may be a batchable post process that's within my reach.
"....the new Smug ftp"??? Wha-a-a t the heck did I miss? Where? I've been running around the state (and other states) like a chicken with its head cut off, so I can see how I might have missed something... kid applying & auditioning at all kinds of colleges... yikes. Soon it'll be their turn... to show us the money, haha!
Photos have over-rotated, this time after doing "Gallery Settings"
Ok, at the risk of making everyone pull their hair out again, I would like (well, not really, but "feel obligated" is more like it...) to present to you the most recent round of rotate issues. This one may shine a light on at least one of the problems. Here's a link to one of two photos in the same gallery that have rotated left one rotation too far: http://www.winsomeworks.com/Travel/Pennsylvania/Carnegie-Mellon-Pittsburgh-PA/15764073_oJwDk#1182073244_gGsRF The other one is at the bottom of that same page. Oddly, these photos, along with all of the other 27 photos that needed rotation, had been rotated correctly, per my command. (All 27 were portrait-oriented photos that originally came into the gallery on their sides, and I'd clicked "left" to get them in the correct orientation) Awhile later, I came back to the gallery and all photos were now in the correct orientation. Good!!
So I then went in & did my "gallery settings", including setting the watermarking, setting to XL3-size, etc. etc. I noticed after I did that that new thumbs were being generated or something-- I assumed because of the added watermarking, even though I don't watermark thumbs. I only noticed/knew this because some images suddenly had black borders on their long sides-- i.e. they were temporarily filled in with black at the sides to effectively make the thumbs square. If I'd refresh the page, different ones had black. Later on, all was fine; my gallery settings appeared correct, photos watermarked, black was gone, etc. except these two photos were on their sides, i.e.-- since the gallery settings, they'd rotated one turn too far. So now what they need is to be rotated right! I'm only leaving them this way for now your perusal.
The reason I say "this one may shine light...." is because I'm quite certain this has happened to me multiple times in the past. I know I've left galleries, thinking all was well, then done my gallery settings & left again. Then I'd come back much later or even days later & found over-rotated photos. So I really had a hunch that at least sometimes, a thumbnail re-generation or something like that was affecting prior rotations. I don't know if Samir has seen this...I don't know when he tends to do his settings. I also think I may have had this happen after bulk-captioning photos, but I won't swear to that, & am much more sure of this other thing-- gallery settings later changing some orientations.
Here are the steps I recall doing from the upload on, so that you can make some sense of this:
1. Uploaded 90 photos to gallery "Carnegie-Mellon..."
2. Arranged photos through the "Many Photos>Arrange>Arrange Photos" method.... first by date uploaded, then did some single moves.
3. Went back to gallery and manually arranged some photos on each page.
4. Clicked "Tools>Rotate" to rotate incorrectly-oriented photos.
5. All 27 photos that were incorrect just needed one (90 degree) left rotation, so I selected them & clicked rotate.
6. Left the gallery... went off & did something else.
7. Came back, maybe after 20 min. All photos in correct orientation.
8. Manually arranged a few more.
9. Did some color effects, some through Smug, some through PicNik.
10 (for clarification... neither photo that is now incorrect has had any color process done to it)
11. Went into gallery settings & did all the usual: set RCP, made public, added watermarking, set available size, wrote description, added gallery keywords, set print settings, etc.
12. Did bulk auto-color on a few dark photos at end of gallery.
13. Cropped a photo or two.
14. Noticed the thing going on that I mentioned up above: black borders, thumbs regenerating, etc. Decided to leave gallery alone for a bit.
15. Came back, saw two photos had rotated one step further for some reason, and were now horizontal when they should be vertical. Still this way after another hour or more.
I also want to add something to this whole discussion. When this kind of thing used to happen to me in the past, there were many many times when I said nothing. I keep hearing "well, no one else has this problem." First of all, other people in this thread have had a problem. Secondly, I guarantee you that with any given problem, 50 people could be having it before even one person bothers to come here or go to "help" to report it. Why? Because it's so freaking much easier to just go back into the gallery & fix it yourself!! That's what I'd rather do too. That's what I always did before someone else bothered to mention it. It's SO-o much faster! I've spent hours & hours on this problem now just to try to help you guys figure it out, yet I've gained almost nothing, & gotten loads of grief. I would have spent so much less time on it just re-doing it in my gallery each time it happens, just like the probably hundreds of other people who've had the problem. So can we just forget about "no one else has this" from now on? Because I don't believe it for one second. Being squeaky is no fun. It's a big pain. I don't have a weird camera, weird settings, or weird uploading habits. And the rotation tool is probably the least complicated tool we have. So just... can my rotation steps be shown as you showed Samir his, much earlier in this thread? I never got an answer to that, even though I've asked a few times. Post #31 shows a chart. ???
Diagnosing this problem is tricky. And the key to it is going to be able to re-produce it, which is going to be really difficult.
Here's what I want to you do. You'll be doing this in a new galleries specific for testing. Call them TestA1, TestA2, TestA3, etc. (You'll probably want to make them unlisited so they don't make a mess of your homepage or layout. Do this right after you create the gallery and before the steps.)
So in your list, go through steps 1-5 again, repeating the process in each gallery, making as many galleries as necessary, until you see over-rotation. Be sure to do completely do steps 1-5 in TestA1 and then TestA2. This way, things will get put in the queues in order. Note these galleries with issues and their numbers. This will get us some raw data.
Then, I want you to do the same thing in another series of galleries set up the same as the TestA series except call them TestB. In the TestB series, I want you to do steps 1,4,5 only. Keep repeating the steps in the different galleries until you have over-rotations. Note the galleries.
Then we'll have to see if we notice a pattern. If not, then we need to keep repeating the test and noting down gallery numbers. I'm estimating that after about 10,000 galleries, we'll start to see some patterns start to unfold.
This is the stupidest way to diagnose this issue because if I had the source code I'd figure out all the base cases, and then just build a program that checks those. It was the first thing I learned in my data structures class. I'd find quirky bugs like this instantly. We'd probably find this problem in less than a day.
You're completely kidding me, right? Sure. Yep, I'll get right to work on 10,000 galleries & post back in about 25 yrs.
He's making a point that the right way for Smugmug to attack this problem is to go analyze and instrument the code and have a developer find this problem, not have us bang on it from the outside looking for an elusive and perhaps non-existent easily reproducible case.
Everybody knows the bug exists. Smugmug needs to assign a developer to just go find it via analysis, and stop waiting for the elusive reproducible case. It's always great if you have a reproducible case, but once you know it really is a bug that happens multiple times and you decide it's something you want to fix (hopefully things that have both already happened here), then some bugs just aren't going to present the easy reproducible case and a developer is going to have to go find it themselves through analysis and instrumentation of the code.
The question here is whether Smugmug really wants to fix this or not. If they do, then it's time to stop waiting for customers or testers of any kind to supply more info.
Comments
I'm really sorry you are so upset about this
Yes, we are looking at this, that is why I took the trouble to get your files. Yes, we're spending a ton of time trying to replicate this issue that as far as I know, is affecting two out of all of our customers - you and Samir. But no matter, we'd love to get to the bottom of it!
Cameras that are set properly for auto rotation will upload to SmugMug and be automatically presented in the proper rotation, thus causing you to not have to use our rotate tool at all. That is why I took the time to ask about that, Anna Lisa.
We will continue to investigate this issue. Would love to hear from anyone else that is experiencing the same issue, please do post here.
Thanks!
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I also get upset when we're hearing nothing in terms of real tests from inside. This is a quote from way back: "... And I've passed all this info to my Product Manager and sorcerers..." but it feels like nothing came of it. NO one is saying what happened to Sean's research. Is he available, gone, or what? And in post #30 or so, you're able to show Samir what he did with his photos. Do all these other photos we've both posted since have the same info available? If so, you should be able to see what I did w/ my photo.
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
We ARE testing. We have not reliably reproduced this in a way that our Sorcerers can tell what's happening to you. Please, let us continue, thanks. I have replied to everything in this thread, we're looking at it, and working on it. Can't say how, when, or if we'll nail this. But we're sure going to try.
Thank you.
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That being said, this is about the rotate tool when it is being manually used. Instead of sidelining the issue, let's just address the issue in its pure form: image needs rotation, image rotated, imagine not rotated properly by SM. The orientation sensor is irrelevant.
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Hi Samir, I'm sorry you feel that the issue is being sidelined
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When are these times? I can't imagine not using auto rotate, ever.
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And feel free to curse SM at the top of your lungs when it gets too annoying. It does help relieve the stress.
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You can't be further from the truth. I'm working on it as we speak. Why on earth would you say such a thing, Samir? I have posted over and over that we ARE WORKING on it. We have images, and we have testing going on. What more can I say about it? Posts like the one you just made are distracting me from actually doing said work.
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There are times when an image uploaded to SM isn't the same as your original, even when it looks correct. This isn't important for web viewing, but could cause problems with printing. So, the best way to make sure you have the correct image in your gallery is to use the new 'download all' feature and compare the gallery images with your original files. If you find something amiss, you can re-upload the image. I don't see this very often, but it happens enough that I do it. And the issue isn't on SM's side, it's probably just something along the path from my modem to SM. I just want to make that clear. This is transferring over http after all. It's not going to be robust like ftp.
This works all fine and dandy until you allow auto-rotation via a sensor. When an image is rotated, it is altered from the original, so a comparison with the original will show that the files are different.
Now, I know that most everyone isn't comparing their uploaded files, but I have to make sure. (For some reason if I don't double and triple check everything in my life like this, something always happens that bites me in the butt that never happens to anyone else. I've attributed this to perpetual bad luck.)
The other scenario is when the orientation sensor will get it wrong like when shooting at odd angles. And as a working pro Andy, I'm shocked you didn't think of this situation.
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FYI, I never rely on Smugmug to do auto-rotation for me. I shoot RAW, process in Lightroom, export already-rotated JPEGS from Lightroom and upload those to Smugmug.
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I'm testing. Sean's research hasn't proved out yet. And we have no replicable case we can give a sorcerer on our test bed where said sorcerer could go attempt to fix.
/me goes back to rotating 1000s of images.
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Why on earth would one ever do this?
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I haven't hit a keyboard in a long time, but I did today. My hand is still hurting from it. It's a good thing these IBM M's are built really well. It's a bad thing that the frustration levels have gotten this high.
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I'm very sorry you are so frustrated. I do suggest following the advice that I and John give - I shoot 1000s and 1000s of images in a week. Can't imagine using SmugMug to do my rotation for me when it's handled perfectly by excellent local software. Hope you day brightens!
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Sometime I feel like I'm running a marathon with someone taking a baseball bat to my knees every so often. I get up and continue after I heal, but it's a really hard way to run a race.
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The gimp is free. http://www.gimp.org/
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I had no idea that Gimp was this powerful, or that it ran on windows machines like I have. And with the ability to publish directly to FTP, and the new smugftp, there may be a batchable post process that's within my reach.
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1548571#post1548571
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Ok, at the risk of making everyone pull their hair out again, I would like (well, not really, but "feel obligated" is more like it...) to present to you the most recent round of rotate issues. This one may shine a light on at least one of the problems. Here's a link to one of two photos in the same gallery that have rotated left one rotation too far: http://www.winsomeworks.com/Travel/Pennsylvania/Carnegie-Mellon-Pittsburgh-PA/15764073_oJwDk#1182073244_gGsRF The other one is at the bottom of that same page. Oddly, these photos, along with all of the other 27 photos that needed rotation, had been rotated correctly, per my command. (All 27 were portrait-oriented photos that originally came into the gallery on their sides, and I'd clicked "left" to get them in the correct orientation) Awhile later, I came back to the gallery and all photos were now in the correct orientation. Good!!
So I then went in & did my "gallery settings", including setting the watermarking, setting to XL3-size, etc. etc. I noticed after I did that that new thumbs were being generated or something-- I assumed because of the added watermarking, even though I don't watermark thumbs. I only noticed/knew this because some images suddenly had black borders on their long sides-- i.e. they were temporarily filled in with black at the sides to effectively make the thumbs square. If I'd refresh the page, different ones had black. Later on, all was fine; my gallery settings appeared correct, photos watermarked, black was gone, etc. except these two photos were on their sides, i.e.-- since the gallery settings, they'd rotated one turn too far. So now what they need is to be rotated right! I'm only leaving them this way for now your perusal.
The reason I say "this one may shine light...." is because I'm quite certain this has happened to me multiple times in the past. I know I've left galleries, thinking all was well, then done my gallery settings & left again. Then I'd come back much later or even days later & found over-rotated photos. So I really had a hunch that at least sometimes, a thumbnail re-generation or something like that was affecting prior rotations. I don't know if Samir has seen this...I don't know when he tends to do his settings. I also think I may have had this happen after bulk-captioning photos, but I won't swear to that, & am much more sure of this other thing-- gallery settings later changing some orientations.
Here are the steps I recall doing from the upload on, so that you can make some sense of this:
1. Uploaded 90 photos to gallery "Carnegie-Mellon..."
2. Arranged photos through the "Many Photos>Arrange>Arrange Photos" method.... first by date uploaded, then did some single moves.
3. Went back to gallery and manually arranged some photos on each page.
4. Clicked "Tools>Rotate" to rotate incorrectly-oriented photos.
5. All 27 photos that were incorrect just needed one (90 degree) left rotation, so I selected them & clicked rotate.
6. Left the gallery... went off & did something else.
7. Came back, maybe after 20 min. All photos in correct orientation.
8. Manually arranged a few more.
9. Did some color effects, some through Smug, some through PicNik.
10 (for clarification... neither photo that is now incorrect has had any color process done to it)
11. Went into gallery settings & did all the usual: set RCP, made public, added watermarking, set available size, wrote description, added gallery keywords, set print settings, etc.
12. Did bulk auto-color on a few dark photos at end of gallery.
13. Cropped a photo or two.
14. Noticed the thing going on that I mentioned up above: black borders, thumbs regenerating, etc. Decided to leave gallery alone for a bit.
15. Came back, saw two photos had rotated one step further for some reason, and were now horizontal when they should be vertical. Still this way after another hour or more.
I also want to add something to this whole discussion. When this kind of thing used to happen to me in the past, there were many many times when I said nothing. I keep hearing "well, no one else has this problem." First of all, other people in this thread have had a problem. Secondly, I guarantee you that with any given problem, 50 people could be having it before even one person bothers to come here or go to "help" to report it. Why? Because it's so freaking much easier to just go back into the gallery & fix it yourself!! That's what I'd rather do too. That's what I always did before someone else bothered to mention it. It's SO-o much faster! I've spent hours & hours on this problem now just to try to help you guys figure it out, yet I've gained almost nothing, & gotten loads of grief. I would have spent so much less time on it just re-doing it in my gallery each time it happens, just like the probably hundreds of other people who've had the problem. So can we just forget about "no one else has this" from now on? Because I don't believe it for one second. Being squeaky is no fun. It's a big pain. I don't have a weird camera, weird settings, or weird uploading habits. And the rotation tool is probably the least complicated tool we have. So just... can my rotation steps be shown as you showed Samir his, much earlier in this thread? I never got an answer to that, even though I've asked a few times. Post #31 shows a chart. ???
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Here's what I want to you do. You'll be doing this in a new galleries specific for testing. Call them TestA1, TestA2, TestA3, etc. (You'll probably want to make them unlisited so they don't make a mess of your homepage or layout. Do this right after you create the gallery and before the steps.)
So in your list, go through steps 1-5 again, repeating the process in each gallery, making as many galleries as necessary, until you see over-rotation. Be sure to do completely do steps 1-5 in TestA1 and then TestA2. This way, things will get put in the queues in order. Note these galleries with issues and their numbers. This will get us some raw data.
Then, I want you to do the same thing in another series of galleries set up the same as the TestA series except call them TestB. In the TestB series, I want you to do steps 1,4,5 only. Keep repeating the steps in the different galleries until you have over-rotations. Note the galleries.
Then we'll have to see if we notice a pattern. If not, then we need to keep repeating the test and noting down gallery numbers. I'm estimating that after about 10,000 galleries, we'll start to see some patterns start to unfold.
This is the stupidest way to diagnose this issue because if I had the source code I'd figure out all the base cases, and then just build a program that checks those. It was the first thing I learned in my data structures class. I'd find quirky bugs like this instantly. We'd probably find this problem in less than a day.
Good luck. And be sure to post back with results.
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Everybody knows the bug exists. Smugmug needs to assign a developer to just go find it via analysis, and stop waiting for the elusive reproducible case. It's always great if you have a reproducible case, but once you know it really is a bug that happens multiple times and you decide it's something you want to fix (hopefully things that have both already happened here), then some bugs just aren't going to present the easy reproducible case and a developer is going to have to go find it themselves through analysis and instrumentation of the code.
The question here is whether Smugmug really wants to fix this or not. If they do, then it's time to stop waiting for customers or testers of any kind to supply more info.
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