...is set to 'Square Thumbs: No' but it is still showing square thumbs, am I missing something?
Because of this my homepage also looks odd as the Motorsport category is the only one showing as a square, will this go back to 'normal' if I can somehow get this one gallery back to its normal shape?
Not too thrilled by this square thing to be honest, would rather it was opt-in rather than opt-out.
Hi Chris,
Sorry about not allowing you to opt-in on this change We are looking into making using square thumbs easier and also easier to remove them, if you do desire. For now, in newly created galleries, you will need to select NO for square thumbs and then rotate all photos right, then left after uploading. This basically reloads the files and will remove the square thumbs. You can also create a Quick Setting with square thumbs set to NO and use this Quick Setting when creating new galleries. That will prevent you from having to do the rotation fix, after uploading.
Give me about 20 minutes. I have already rotated your gallery right and I will rotate it left, in about 10 minutes.
...is set to 'Square Thumbs: No' but it is still showing square thumbs, am I missing something?
Because of this my homepage also looks odd as the Motorsport category is the only one showing as a square, will this go back to 'normal' if I can somehow get this one gallery back to its normal shape?
Not too thrilled by this square thing to be honest, would rather it was opt-in rather than opt-out.
This seams to be a love it or hate it proposition.
I am not sure if there is any explination on the main site, if not there should be one. If you have someone in a trail that falls into the hate it catagory, and they don't understand they can turn it off they won't sign up.
At least that would have been me, if the software was doing a bad crop on my thumbnails when I uploaded my first gallary, I would have left and never come back.
I for one didn't like this new surprise. I have tons of photos / galleries with the old default thumb...and all of a sudden, wham square thumb. Hate it. Like I want to all of a sudden have to go back and make my galleries match this new one. I guess I don't get why this was a surprise, and the default, it would have been easier, and nicer to make it an option. I was a bit freaked out when it started....hopefully I'll get them back match my old galleries. It just so happens the gallery I created with the square thumbs wasn't going to be watermarked, so no I have to mark it, unmark it...not a simple click like choosing Square thumbs would have been when making the gallery.
Ok, I'm done ranting, but I had too get it off my chest. Other than that, things are fine.
I for one didn't like this new surprise. I have tons of photos / galleries with the old default thumb...and all of a sudden, wham square thumb. Hate it. Like I want to all of a sudden have to go back and make my galleries match this new one. I guess I don't get why this was a surprise, and the default, it would have been easier, and nicer to make it an option. I was a bit freaked out when it started....hopefully I'll get them back match my old galleries. It just so happens the gallery I created with the square thumbs wasn't going to be watermarked, so no I have to mark it, unmark it...not a simple click like choosing Square thumbs would have been when making the gallery.
Ok, I'm done ranting, but I had too get it off my chest. Other than that, things are fine.
go to watermarking and just select and remove it, even though you didn't have one it will save you a step.
I for one didn't like this new surprise. I have tons of photos / galleries with the old default thumb...and all of a sudden, wham square thumb. Hate it. Like I want to all of a sudden have to go back and make my galleries match this new one. I guess I don't get why this was a surprise, and the default, it would have been easier, and nicer to make it an option. I was a bit freaked out when it started....hopefully I'll get them back match my old galleries. It just so happens the gallery I created with the square thumbs wasn't going to be watermarked, so no I have to mark it, unmark it...not a simple click like choosing Square thumbs would have been when making the gallery.
Ok, I'm done ranting, but I had too get it off my chest. Other than that, things are fine.
Toggle either yes or no for square watermark under customize gallery first.
With a pro account all you have to do to regenerate the thumbs is go to watermarking under phototools and "select all" and apply your current watermark. One step.
If you have no watermark "select all" and pick remove watermark, one step.
Smug does not know if you have a watermark or not and will regenerate the thumbs to either square or not depending on the setting.
Ok Andy - I'm still confused on this - it appeared to be working when I was at work today but now that I'm home and using my 1600x1920 monitor I'm still not seeing how I can get the larger thumbnail images - the first screen shot below if my website - using the same monitor - notice the 7 smaller thumbnails - the other image is another website on smugmug that has 5 much larger thumbnails dispalyed - viewing them on the same monitor - what gives??
Toggle either yes or no for square watermark under customize gallery first.
With a pro account all you have to do to regenerate the thumbs is go to watermarking under phototools and "select all" and apply your current watermark. One step.
If you have no watermark "select all" and pick remove watermark, one step.
Smug does not know if you have a watermark or not and will regenerate the thumbs to either square or not depending on the setting.
Well I think I got it. I was a bit confused, , and thought I had to add then remove the watermark...which was two steps. Anyway, the shock is over.
Things like this should be a reminder that "better" is not always the same thing for everyone.
As I said in my other thread, I don't like this feature, especially that it defaults to square. On creating a gallery from "Add Photos +" on the home page, the dialogs take you to a page to add photos. To get to the customize page, you have to leave the add photos page, go to the gallery, change the thumbs, then go back to add photos.
I suggest add the "customize gallery" button to the "create new gallery" page under "add photos +"
Today we announced a cool new feature, square thumbs.
I've let this one sink in for awhile and it's still blowing me away that you decided to just unilaterally change the default user experience for every one of your customers and now they get square thumbs by default on all new galleries. Square thumbs are a neat feature, but how could you decide that every one of your existing customers would automatically want to switch to using square thumbs from now on and make no easy way for them to opt-out of this change.
Now, when an existing customer suddenly discovers the new gallery that they've just uploaded a bunch of images to all has square thumbs and that's not what they want, they have to figure out how to change it. If they're lucky enough to find the option in the customize gallery screen, they go to turn that option off. Hmmm. Nothing changes - it's set for square to be off, but all thumbs are still square.
At this point, they probably have to get help on dgrin or at the help desk because they're stuck with square thumbs they've decided they don't want and the option to turn it off isn't making them go away. Then, when they do get info from the help desk, they're told to rotate left, wait for that to complete, then rotate back right and they will have rectangular thumbs back the way it used to be. Can they turn it off for future galleries? Not really. Just think about the number of less savvy customers who don't contact support, don't hang out on dgrin and don't snoop around in the customize gallery screen and probably just think that all thumbs are just now square and that's the way Smugmug works now. New galleries are just different than old ones.
There are a lot of things wrong with this picture. This doesn't seem up to the usual experience level that I think Smugmug is striving for. I'm not arguing against offering people the option of square thumbs, but there are a lot of holes in how it got rolled into the offering.
... every one of your customers and now they get square thumbs by default on all new galleries. ... opt-out of this change....
There are a lot of things wrong with this picture.....
I think at a minimum, coming from "add photos" > "new gallery" the "add photos" page should have a big warning red text block with a direct link to "customize gallery". This box should explain that your photos are exposed to the public and search engines. Before clicking "upload" set the security for the gallery, things like unlisted, password, right click protection, hello worlds. Also set photo size, square thumbs and your watermark.
Some large uploads could take all night and many hours and I imagine most have no idea this is happening. I've always thought that clicking "add photos" "new gallery" should bring up the "customize gallery" page and not the "add photos" page.
Some large uploads could take all night and many hours and I imagine most have no idea this is happening. I've always thought that clicking "add photos" "new gallery" should bring up the "customize gallery" page and not the "add photos" page.
I have to agree with Allen here. I usually go out of the upload screen as soon as I create my gallery for various reasons and then go back to it when I'm ready to upload. I don't think it should go directly to that screen. Also, even though I like the thumbnail appearance, I found out last night how terribly long it takes to zoom each thumbnail to where you want it zoomed...or at least for the save to occur after zooming each photo. You have to do this process to EACH and EVERY single photo. I like square thumbs because of the uniformity but if you don't like smugmugs thumbnail...which I haven't liked any of mine so far...then you still have to spend the time to zoom each individual image. This could take a huge amount of time if you have a large gallery of images. Just some stuff to think about when possibly tweaking this function of smugmug.
Square thumbs even affect keywording (sort of)!
Another unintended consequence of going with square thumbs is the impact it has on the bulk-editor screen for keywords (and captions). I use this feature (SM's bulk editor) exclusively for adding keywords and captions....
....but I noticed that square thumbs sometimes cut people entirely out of the picture on the left/right extremes for group-shot images, making it very cumbersome to keyword/caption the image correctly. Having to step out of the editor to view a non-thumb image just to see who's in it defeats the benefit of the bulk editor itself.
I suppose a loupe-type scroll capability while in thumb-mode (scroll the thumb to see who's at the edges) would probably work, but I'm guessing that would require a lot of programming time to achieve. The better alternative, I think, would be to leave the thumbs "unsquared" inside the editor, at least, even if the user opts for square thumbs on the gallery displays.
....but I noticed that square thumbs sometimes cut people entirely out of the picture on the left/right extremes for group-shot images, making it very cumbersome to keyword/caption the image correctly.
Wow, good point, Papa. Never thought of that one. So you'll want to have Squares off, until you've keyworded, is my guess. If you need help with a quick setting, let us know, and, thanks for the feedback!
Wow, good point, Papa. Never thought of that one. So you'll want to have Squares off, until you've keyworded, is my guess. If you need help with a quick setting, let us know, and, thanks for the feedback!
...The better alternative, I think, would be to leave the thumbs "unsquared" inside the editor, at least, even if the user opts for square thumbs on the gallery displays.
Like your idea, for any bulk page they could be /photos/xxxxxxxxx_xxxxx-150x150-S.jpg
links so they would show as the same ratio as the originals.
We know it. I think we miscued on this one, and steps are being taken as we speak to improve things.
Thanks for the unvarnished feedback, we don't want it any other way. FWIW, you echo a lot of what's been said internally
I'm sorry I haven't updated this thread in a few days. This topic has been the subject of A LOT of discussion at SmugMug internally.
We'll get it right, and soon.
If you're going to fix things up, here are some suggestions for fixing it.
When a customer changes the thumbs from square to non-square or vice versa in the customize gallery screen, you should just regenerate thumbs for them automatically. This makes the setting "just work" and won't require support for users to figure this out. Since the thumbs will regenerate over time, you may need to inform the user that it will happen over time so they know what to expect. The same logic, btw, should probably be hooked up for watermarking and enabling larger sizes.
You should not change the default for existing customers. There's just no way they expect that or should have to deal with that sort of change.
The API should continue to make rectangular thumb galleries unless they include a specific parameter that says they want square. This keeps existing uploaders working the way they used to until they have a chance to update their behavior for the new API parameter and ask the user what they want.
It would be nice to have a global preference so they could declare whether they want square thumbs to be the default or not for new galleries. Then, they could opt-in to having square thumbs on all new galleries.
So existing users shouldn't have square automatically. It's a separate decision whether new customers should default to square. If they do, then you could use the preference in 3 to keep existing customers with the original rectangular default unless they change it themselves global or per gallery.
To really make square thumbs work, you need a bulk adjust thumbs screen where you can just quickly grab each thumb and position it to show what you want to show. Once screen to adjust all thumbs, hit OK and you're done.
When a user creates a gallery in Smugmug, it should be a heck of a lot easier to get to the customize gallery screen before uploading. It should be a clear option in your workflow. Now, you basically have to quit out of the workflow you offer, go to customize gallery, then go back to upload. Three separate and independent steps (create gallery, customize gallery, upload new photos) instead of one simple workflow that you guide the user through. I recognize that not every user needs to go to customize gallery in their workflow, but it should be easy and simple to do so if required.
Then, for massive extra credit and if you really want to wow some people, you find some of the face detection logic that cameras use these days and you default a square thumb to show a face if there is an obvious one. This would need some experimentation to see how well it could actually work, but it sure would be the ultimate "just work" for square thumbs.
6. To really make square thumbs work, you need a bulk adjust thumbs screen where you can just quickly grab each thumb and position it to show what you want to show. Once screen to adjust all thumbs, hit OK and you're done.
Every thing turned out fine....I had a watermark hang on for a bit though. I just need to remind myself to go to customization before I upload....I usually remember. I to think it would be a good idea to go to customization automatically before the upload page.
I've just created a new gallery and uploaded pics to it, When that was all done I noticed that all of the thumbnails were square, which I hadn't seen before in any of my other galleries.
So anyway, I found the option under Customise Gallery to turn square thumbs off, which I set to NO and then saved the changes. However my thumbnails for the gallery are still square. Is there something else that I need to do to get them to change? Does the change just take a while to affect?
I've just created a new gallery and uploaded pics to it, When that was all done I noticed that all of the thumbnails were square, which I hadn't seen before in any of my other galleries.
So anyway, I found the option under Customise Gallery to turn square thumbs off, which I set to NO and then saved the changes. However my thumbnails for the gallery are still square. Is there something else that I need to do to get them to change? Does the change just take a while to affect?
Thanks,
Jeff
The thumbs also need to be regenerated after you reset the gallery settings. One way to do that is to rotate the photos and then rotate them back again. Or if you have a pro account removing or applying a watermark will also regenerate the thumbs.
If you're going to fix things up, here are some suggestions for fixing it.
When a customer changes the thumbs from square to non-square or vice versa in the customize gallery screen, you should just regenerate thumbs for them automatically. This makes the setting "just work" and won't require support for users to figure this out. Since the thumbs will regenerate over time, you may need to inform the user that it will happen over time so they know what to expect. The same logic, btw, should probably be hooked up for watermarking and enabling larger sizes.
Look no further than post #81 in this thread to see why Smugmug should just make new thumbs when the user changes the setting.
My $0.02
I personally like the idea of the square thumbs... it makes my obsessive compulsive self very happy. :-)
I think a couple people have hit upon a good point - gallery customization should come after album creation and before uploading. I've always thought so without even realizing it!
It certainly would be cool if when you turn square thumbs on or off in customization, if that immediately changed it in the album.
Last thought - I haven't even done it yet, but I'm dreading zoom thumb to get the cropping right. I think it would be very cool if you could do this in big batches. I'm picturing a screen full of all the thumbs from a gallery (like what you see when you go to watermarking) and you just drag the square on each pic to set it where you'd like, then save the whole batch at once.
I just tried square thumbs on a gallery. I hate it! It took 30 freakin' minutes to do the whole rotate then rotate back. Of course my custom watermark got hosed in the process so I had to redo the watermarking which took another 20 minutes. Once again I ask what is so great about square thumbs and why is it the default?!
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hi,
I really like square thumbs, good idea... but I absolulty DON'T WANT to spend the next month rotating left / rotating right images to update my 150 galeries. Are you crazy or what ???
At least, just add a "regenerate thumbs" button...
... and I totally agree with jfriend's 8 suggestions.
You won't have to regenerate any thumbs right now, if you set a quicksetting for new galleries - holler if you need help with that, okay?
Ok Andy, thanks for your answer and your assistance.
I already set a quicksetting for my new galleries, that's ok, but the problem is: how do I update my previously uploaded galleries ?
...sorry if I misunderstood your words, my english is a bit week, and I don't understand "holler"
I just tried square thumbs on a gallery. I hate it! It took 30 freakin' minutes to do the whole rotate then rotate back. Of course my custom watermark got hosed in the process so I had to redo the watermarking which took another 20 minutes. Once again I ask what is so great about square thumbs and why is it the default?!
It's a case of horses for courses, but IMHO what's so great about square thumbs (and why I've jumped through the BZT script hoops in the past) is it gives a cleaner, more uniform, IMHO more professional look to the smugmug styled galleries. Sucks that you had so much trouble, though--I thought I'd read ealrier that you could just re-do the watermarks to the same one you already had & that would trigger the thumb generation.
Comments
The following gallery...
http://chrisharrison.smugmug.com/gallery/4579325_qLhEP
...is set to 'Square Thumbs: No' but it is still showing square thumbs, am I missing something?
Because of this my homepage also looks odd as the Motorsport category is the only one showing as a square, will this go back to 'normal' if I can somehow get this one gallery back to its normal shape?
Not too thrilled by this square thing to be honest, would rather it was opt-in rather than opt-out.
Sorry about not allowing you to opt-in on this change
Give me about 20 minutes. I have already rotated your gallery right and I will rotate it left, in about 10 minutes.
Steve
I am not sure if there is any explination on the main site, if not there should be one. If you have someone in a trail that falls into the hate it catagory, and they don't understand they can turn it off they won't sign up.
At least that would have been me, if the software was doing a bad crop on my thumbnails when I uploaded my first gallary, I would have left and never come back.
Just something to think about.
Ok, I'm done ranting, but I had too get it off my chest. Other than that, things are fine.
go to watermarking and just select and remove it, even though you didn't have one it will save you a step.
With a pro account all you have to do to regenerate the thumbs is go to watermarking under phototools and "select all" and apply your current watermark. One step.
If you have no watermark "select all" and pick remove watermark, one step.
Smug does not know if you have a watermark or not and will regenerate the thumbs to either square or not depending on the setting.
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Well I think I got it. I was a bit confused,
Things like this should be a reminder that "better" is not always the same thing for everyone.
I suggest add the "customize gallery" button to the "create new gallery" page under "add photos +"
Bugs
Spiders
Flowers
I've let this one sink in for awhile and it's still blowing me away that you decided to just unilaterally change the default user experience for every one of your customers and now they get square thumbs by default on all new galleries. Square thumbs are a neat feature, but how could you decide that every one of your existing customers would automatically want to switch to using square thumbs from now on and make no easy way for them to opt-out of this change.
Now, when an existing customer suddenly discovers the new gallery that they've just uploaded a bunch of images to all has square thumbs and that's not what they want, they have to figure out how to change it. If they're lucky enough to find the option in the customize gallery screen, they go to turn that option off. Hmmm. Nothing changes - it's set for square to be off, but all thumbs are still square.
At this point, they probably have to get help on dgrin or at the help desk because they're stuck with square thumbs they've decided they don't want and the option to turn it off isn't making them go away. Then, when they do get info from the help desk, they're told to rotate left, wait for that to complete, then rotate back right and they will have rectangular thumbs back the way it used to be. Can they turn it off for future galleries? Not really. Just think about the number of less savvy customers who don't contact support, don't hang out on dgrin and don't snoop around in the customize gallery screen and probably just think that all thumbs are just now square and that's the way Smugmug works now. New galleries are just different than old ones.
There are a lot of things wrong with this picture. This doesn't seem up to the usual experience level that I think Smugmug is striving for. I'm not arguing against offering people the option of square thumbs, but there are a lot of holes in how it got rolled into the offering.
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Some large uploads could take all night and many hours and I imagine most have no idea this is happening. I've always thought that clicking "add photos" "new gallery" should bring up the "customize gallery" page and not the "add photos" page.
My Website index | My Blog
I have to agree with Allen here. I usually go out of the upload screen as soon as I create my gallery for various reasons and then go back to it when I'm ready to upload. I don't think it should go directly to that screen. Also, even though I like the thumbnail appearance, I found out last night how terribly long it takes to zoom each thumbnail to where you want it zoomed...or at least for the save to occur after zooming each photo. You have to do this process to EACH and EVERY single photo. I like square thumbs because of the uniformity but if you don't like smugmugs thumbnail...which I haven't liked any of mine so far...then you still have to spend the time to zoom each individual image. This could take a huge amount of time if you have a large gallery of images. Just some stuff to think about when possibly tweaking this function of smugmug.
~ * ~ Mothers of teens now know why some animals eat their young ~ * ~
Thanks for the unvarnished feedback, we don't want it any other way. FWIW, you echo a lot of what's been said internally
I'm sorry I haven't updated this thread in a few days. This topic has been the subject of A LOT of discussion at SmugMug internally.
We'll get it right, and soon.
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Another unintended consequence of going with square thumbs is the impact it has on the bulk-editor screen for keywords (and captions). I use this feature (SM's bulk editor) exclusively for adding keywords and captions....
....but I noticed that square thumbs sometimes cut people entirely out of the picture on the left/right extremes for group-shot images, making it very cumbersome to keyword/caption the image correctly. Having to step out of the editor to view a non-thumb image just to see who's in it defeats the benefit of the bulk editor itself.
I suppose a loupe-type scroll capability while in thumb-mode (scroll the thumb to see who's at the edges) would probably work, but I'm guessing that would require a lot of programming time to achieve. The better alternative, I think, would be to leave the thumbs "unsquared" inside the editor, at least, even if the user opts for square thumbs on the gallery displays.
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Works for me!
links so they would show as the same ratio as the originals.
My Website index | My Blog
If you're going to fix things up, here are some suggestions for fixing it.
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I strongly agree with this. gs
http://georgesphotos.net
Hi all,
I've just created a new gallery and uploaded pics to it, When that was all done I noticed that all of the thumbnails were square, which I hadn't seen before in any of my other galleries.
So anyway, I found the option under Customise Gallery to turn square thumbs off, which I set to NO and then saved the changes. However my thumbnails for the gallery are still square. Is there something else that I need to do to get them to change? Does the change just take a while to affect?
Thanks,
Jeff
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Look no further than post #81 in this thread to see why Smugmug should just make new thumbs when the user changes the setting.
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I personally like the idea of the square thumbs... it makes my obsessive compulsive self very happy. :-)
I think a couple people have hit upon a good point - gallery customization should come after album creation and before uploading. I've always thought so without even realizing it!
It certainly would be cool if when you turn square thumbs on or off in customization, if that immediately changed it in the album.
Last thought - I haven't even done it yet, but I'm dreading zoom thumb to get the cropping right. I think it would be very cool if you could do this in big batches. I'm picturing a screen full of all the thumbs from a gallery (like what you see when you go to watermarking) and you just drag the square on each pic to set it where you'd like, then save the whole batch at once.
That's my two cents.
http://loribrueseke.smugmug.com/
I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own - Adam Savage
I really like square thumbs, good idea... but I absolulty DON'T WANT to spend the next month rotating left / rotating right images to update my 150 galeries. Are you crazy or what ???
At least, just add a "regenerate thumbs" button...
... and I totally agree with jfriend's 8 suggestions.
David.
We were, and hang in there. Relief is coming soon
You won't have to regenerate any thumbs right now, if you set a quicksetting for new galleries - holler if you need help with that, okay?
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Ok Andy, thanks for your answer and your assistance.
I already set a quicksetting for my new galleries, that's ok, but the problem is: how do I update my previously uploaded galleries ?
...sorry if I misunderstood your words, my english is a bit week, and I don't understand "holler"
David
It's a case of horses for courses, but IMHO what's so great about square thumbs (and why I've jumped through the BZT script hoops in the past) is it gives a cleaner, more uniform, IMHO more professional look to the smugmug styled galleries. Sucks that you had so much trouble, though--I thought I'd read ealrier that you could just re-do the watermarks to the same one you already had & that would trigger the thumb generation.
http://www.chrislaudermilkphoto.com/