I have used Bay Photo printing in Santa Rosa and they are fantastic. Their B/W is awesome.
I am happy to see Smugmug use them with our needs in mind
I have not yet tried the watercolor, but that will be ordered this week. I am interested in seeing just how this looks in hand.
This is good news, although right after I set my portfolio pricing for Bay Photos, the whole site went into read only mode. Hope I didn't break it
Quick question, is there any documentation yet that explains what takes precedence over what when setting the prices. It used to make sense to me with one print vendor. I could set my portfolio pricing and then didn't have to do anything with new galleries unless I wanted to override the portfolio pricing. Now with two vendors set up, I'm assuming I'll need to indicate in each gallery which vendor to use?
Finally, I don't work for SmugMug, I'm not releated to anyone who works for SmugMug, I don't have any friends that work for SmugMug. As a pro subscriber, here is my thought on the previous power user issues with not having access to the new print lab. I pay a premium to have all of the features of SmugMug available to me all the time. If SmugMug offered all the Pro Features to Power users, what would be the incentive for me to spend $90 more per year for the service? To be honest, I don't sell all that much, but I like having the features available to me so that if someone actually did want to buy some prints, I could have options.
Quick question, is there any documentation yet that explains what takes precedence over what when setting the prices.
No, but there probably should be.
We recommend that everyone prices Bay Photo at the portfolio level AND EZ Prints at the portfolio level. Even if it's just to zero out all the items on the lab you don't intend to use. That way there won't be any holes to allow at-cost sales inadvertently.
When you go to gallery level pricing, it will inherit the portfolio pricing for whichever lab you have selected for that gallery. You just have to type in prices you want DIFFERENT than the portfolio pricing for that particular lab.
Image pricing is only available for the lab you currently have selected for the gallery containing the image. (But, we will store that price list so that if you switch labs for the gallery, and later switch back, that image will get the original lab's prices again. )
We also store the second price list at the gallery and portfolio level, but of course only one is active at a time, depending on which lab is selected.
Remember all this is only applicable for the Prints tab of the pro pricing page. The Merchandise and Download tabs only have a single price list for each level, and no lab choice.
Clear as mud?
Here's an example, in case it helps:
I set a 4x6 lustre at the portfolio level for Bay Photo as $6. I set a 4x6 lustre at the portfolio level for EZ Prints as $5. I choose Bay Photo as my portfolio lab, so the price my customers see is $6.
I could set one gallery as EZ Prints, and the customer would see $5 for that gallery.
If I wanted special prices for a certain gallery, I'd simply choose my lab and override whichever prices I need to. I might set a gallery to Bay Photo and set the 4x6 lustre price to $10. Or, I might set a gallery to EZ Prints and set the 4x6 lustre price to $0.21. That item will then be available at-cost to visitors.
One gotcha to keep in mind: The base price for Bay Photo prints will change depending on whether you have enabled Color Correction. So if you had color correction turned off for Bay Photo, and set your 5x7 price as $1.50, you'd run into a problem if you later turned color correction on. That is because SmugMug's non-color-corrected price is $1.15, but the color corrected price is $1.75. If this happens in your pricing, we'll show a clear error next to that item on your pricing page and the item won't be available for purchase until you set a price at least as high as SmugMug's default price.
Quick question, is there any documentation yet that explains what takes precedence over what when setting the prices. It used to make sense to me with one print vendor. I could set my portfolio pricing and then didn't have to do anything with new galleries unless I wanted to override the portfolio pricing. Now with two vendors set up, I'm assuming I'll need to indicate in each gallery which vendor to use?
Sorry, we aren't clear enough yet on the help pages. You can save two price lists in your Portfolio, one for each print lab. The last vendor you selected and saved will be the default for new galleries. But you can set the vendor for that gallery to the other vendor and it will automatically take the proper list.
SmugMug Product Manager
0
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
Hopefully we don't overload poor Bay Photo with our initial round of prints.
This is actually something we're monitoring closely and explains many of our decisions to roll this out gently. Bay Photo is in a new building with more equipment and space, but we want to be careful.
That actually made pretty good sense. I guess it is time to start reworking prices. I just lowered my print prices. My customers are going to be thrilled to see those prices start to creep back up again.
We recommend that everyone prices Bay Photo at the portfolio level AND EZ Prints at the portfolio level. Even if it's just to zero out all the items on the lab you don't intend to use. That way there won't be any holes to allow at-cost sales inadvertently.
No surprise, I have a few questions. While I do most of my own printing, when using an outside printer I have been pretty successful soft proofing to their ICC profile, and specifying no color correction.
After reading the raves about Bay Photos color correction, I am wondering about a work flow, and looking for your recommendations.
Option 1: Simply processing my images using my calibrated monitor, and sending them to bay, and let them color correct. Will this also include any adjustment needed for different printers / paper?
Option 2: Obtain Bay Photos ICC profiles, and continue to soft proof, and print without color correction.
Option 3: Soft proof to Bay Photos ICC profiles, and let them color correct.
With quality being the priority which of these if any would you recommend?
Once I get your input, I'll run some test prints, and post my results.
I hope this is something you guys can change in the future. For me, it will pretty much mean that I won't ever offer the pro lab. I don't want to raise all my prices in order to add some new products. And I'm sure I'm not alone there. I understand that combining them might be troublesome, but I hope you find a way. I do understand that I'm not the market you're targeting with this addition though.
I assume that right now an order could have prints from Bay and merchandise from EZprints, right? Any real reason "Pro Lab Prints" couldn't just be another tab in the purchase options?
I hope this is something you guys can change in the future. For me, it will pretty much mean that I won't ever offer the pro lab. I don't want to raise all my prices in order to add some new products. And I'm sure I'm not alone there. I understand that combining them might be troublesome, but I hope you find a way. I do understand that I'm not the market you're targeting with this addition though.
I assume that right now an order could have prints from Bay and merchandise from EZprints, right? Any real reason "Pro Lab Prints" couldn't just be another tab in the purchase options?
Dave
Dave,
I can't speak for SmugMug, but I am very excited about the Bay Photo option, but I realize my emphasis is quality not price.
But as a thought, is it possible for you to separate the images your willing to pay a higher price for from those you where price is the bigger consideration?
I'm not sure exactly how I am going to set my site up, but for me I don't think it will a big deal to separate galleries, for the two printers.
OK, I'll admit - I'm a prosumer. I find this all very good and I'm happy the integration has taken place especially if I get into doing more non-sports photography.
Having said that - can someone give me a quick primer on:
Benefits/uses of giclee watercolor vs. Lustre
Benefits/uses of metalic vs. Lustre
I'm trying to get an understanding of the types of photos (and thus the customer audience) that would benefit by these better finishing techniques.
0
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
No surprise, I have a few questions. While I do most of my own printing, when using an outside printer I have been pretty successful soft proofing to their ICC profile, and specifying no color correction.
After reading the raves about Bay Photos color correction, I am wondering about a work flow, and looking for your recommendations.
Option 1: Simply processing my images using my calibrated monitor, and sending them to bay, and let them color correct. Will this also include any adjustment needed for different printers / paper?
Option 2: Obtain Bay Photos ICC profiles, and continue to soft proof, and print without color correction.
Option 3: Soft proof to Bay Photos ICC profiles, and let them color correct.
With quality being the priority which of these if any would you recommend?
Once I get your input, I'll run some test prints, and post my results.
Thanks!
Sam
Hey Sam,
Very good questions. I've always been fanatical about color correcting my own shots, so before the pro lab tests we ran I would never have considered letting the lab do it. And we have 3 people at SmugMug who color correct orders for returned prints.
But after seeing how well they color correct, even I just let them do it for events like weddings. And our 3 color correctors often just send the order through Bay (that was also part of our testing).
We've been meeting with groups of wedding photographers in pretty much all-day sessions with them graciously giving us their time. Bay Photo (or whcc) was basically the #1 request most of them had. They don't want to spend time editing more than, say, 35 photographer's favorites per event. They're okay using something like Lightroom to get the photos good enough for display, then letting the lab correct them to print standards when an order comes.
What we heard from all of them is they can make more money shooting than saving on color correction. The only question that caused furrowed brows was how to do good enough color correction for display without dying of boredome.
OK, I'll admit - I'm a prosumer. I find this all very good and I'm happy the integration has taken place especially if I get into doing more non-sports photography.
Having said that - can someone give me a quick primer on:
Benefits/uses of giclee watercolor vs. Lustre
Benefits/uses of metalic vs. Lustre
I'm trying to get an understanding of the types of photos (and thus the customer audience) that would benefit by these better finishing techniques.
Giclee watercolor is an artsy sort of print. People love them for portraits that they will frame and put on their wall for instance. It is on a paper that feels like traditional art paper, and is printed in a more "soft" and artistic method.
Metallic has become my new favorite "standard" finish. It is a glossy finish, and it almost looks 3d. The photos really "pop", I especially love it for prints with vibrant colors. You really should print a sample (even a 4x6) to see it. It is really quite cool.
Those are my non-expert opinions after having placed tons of orders for testing.
Very good questions. I've always been fanatical about color correcting my own shots, so before the pro lab tests we ran I would never have considered letting the lab do it. And we have 3 people at SmugMug who color correct orders for returned prints.
But after seeing how well they color correct, even I just let them do it for events like weddings. And our 3 color correctors often just send the order through Bay (that was also part of our testing).
We've been meeting with groups of wedding photographers in pretty much all-day sessions with them graciously giving us their time. Bay Photo (or whcc) was basically the #1 request most of them had. They don't want to spend time editing more than, say, 35 photographer's favorites per event. They're okay using something like Lightroom to get the photos good enough for display, then letting the lab correct them to print standards when an order comes.
What we heard from all of them is they can make more money shooting than saving on color correction. The only question that caused furrowed brows was how to do good enough color correction for display without dying of boredome.
Baldy,
Thanks for your response. My primary concern today is fine art prints, including, abstracts, landscapes, and B&W. That said, (I'm not holding you to it) which if any of the three options would recommend, at least to start with?
Also, I haven't looked, can I find ICC profiles on their website?
Swank! I'm trying to decide which pano to test print.
In setting up prices for this, I realize I did it on the gallery level. I wish there were a way to apply gallery pricing to my portfolio pricing, just in case. (Couldn't figure it out for the life of me, and I didn't feel like manually entering everything again. )
I assume that right now an order could have prints from Bay and merchandise from EZprints, right? Any real reason "Pro Lab Prints" couldn't just be another tab in the purchase options?
Dave
We're definitely still open to the idea, but this is a first release and it complicates the UI considerably both for the Pro and the customer. EZ Prints does professional-quality printing that we are quite happy with. Bay Photo adds hand color correction, higher quality packaging, shipping from a different location, and different products.
We don't want to distinguish between them by calling one "Pro" and one not, especially because many of your customers probably wouldn't understand the difference. So if we are able to figure out a solution, we want the control to be in your hands rather than theirs.
But as a thought, is it possible for you to separate the images your willing to pay a higher price for from those you where price is the bigger consideration?
Definitely possible, but I never really know what pictures anyone might be interested in. I'm not exactly selling art... For the most part, people are buying pictures of themselves. My customers are generally not going to be interested in the brand of paper used. Every now and then someone will order a pretty big print. I'd like to be able to offer some of Bay Photo's offerings, but stick with EZprints for 4x6 standard glossy prints, etc.
This really isn't such a big deal to me since I might go years before anyone would order a pro lab print from me if I was offering them side by side with the cheaper EZprints option. But it is annoying to find out I won't use this service because it won't intergrate well into my site after months and months of hype.
Looking forward to coupons and packages... and hoping they are implemented in a way that I can actually use. [:)]
I did not have time to read through this entire post so forgive me if this is duplication but...
When I went into gallery pricing I noticed "gallery" and "image"
Under Gallery it gave me the option of both EZ Prints and Bayphoto
Under image it only displays EZ Prints
Is this intentional?
Is there a reason for that?
Is it going to change later on to offer both?
Should I care if you offer both? :-)
Seriously, I'm not sure I understand why EZ only for a single image.
Now: THANK YOU Smugmug for your never ending dedication to excellence.
Markjay
The gallery is set for one of the printers only. Once that gallery is set that way, you can only modify individual prices for that printer. You can't mix images in the same gallery across the two printers. So, you can have custom Bay Photo pricing for a single image if you set the whole gallery for Bay Photo first.
Andy, what option did you use for printing this amazing thing? It looks like a metallic print, but mounted (did they mount it or did you?). Or is it canvas? ...or is it not part of this roll-out?
Andy, what option did you use for printing this amazing thing? It looks like a metallic print, but mounted (did they mount it or did you?). Or is it canvas? ...or is it not part of this roll-out?
this was a big tease It's metallic mounted on gator board. We hope that in a future release, we'll have cool add-ons like gator, foamcore, and even plexi and some others. Stay tuned!
this was a big tease It's metallic mounted on gator board. We hope that in a future release, we'll have cool add-ons like gator, foamcore, and even plexi and some others. Stay tuned!
I have a few "face mounted" plexiglass prints in my garage from 10+ years ago. One from film, the other was a ceiba chrome (sp?) print from a Kodachrome slide. Its a really neat way to display a print! And protect it too.
For now, boxes will have our sticker on them that says to email our help desk if there are any issues. There will be some new cool shipping options in the future, we hope!
New lab looks great, can't wait to order a few samples
Are there any plans to introduce the option for drop-shipping? IE, plain boxes, no mention of Bay Photo or Smugmug?
First of all thank you guys for all the hard work and getting things rolling I do have a few questions on products and the added features of a pro lab and if smugmug is going to be able to incorporate these options into the ordering process
Are we going to be able to order with textures, borders/vignettes,
Also I see that Andy says we do not have the option to have photos mounted. Is this going to be incorporated soon.
If so how soon, before Wedding season?
Are we going to be able to order with textures, borders/vignettes,
Also I see that Andy says we do not have the option to have photos mounted. Is this going to be incorporated soon.
If so how soon, before Wedding season?
Yes on mounting options. Unsure about textures, borders, vignettes etc.
How soon? It's in the plan, we need to let the dust settle here, then get moving on this. Not giving a date yet, sorry.
this was a big tease It's metallic mounted on gator board. We hope that in a future release, we'll have cool add-ons like gator, foamcore, and even plexi and some others. Stay tuned!
Of course it was. Didn't mean to get ahead of the game. I look forward to that option rolling out in the future.
In the meantime, what you've just given us is very cool! Thankee!
Comments
I am happy to see Smugmug use them with our needs in mind
I have not yet tried the watercolor, but that will be ordered this week. I am interested in seeing just how this looks in hand.
Website
Quick question, is there any documentation yet that explains what takes precedence over what when setting the prices. It used to make sense to me with one print vendor. I could set my portfolio pricing and then didn't have to do anything with new galleries unless I wanted to override the portfolio pricing. Now with two vendors set up, I'm assuming I'll need to indicate in each gallery which vendor to use?
Finally, I don't work for SmugMug, I'm not releated to anyone who works for SmugMug, I don't have any friends that work for SmugMug. As a pro subscriber, here is my thought on the previous power user issues with not having access to the new print lab. I pay a premium to have all of the features of SmugMug available to me all the time. If SmugMug offered all the Pro Features to Power users, what would be the incentive for me to spend $90 more per year for the service? To be honest, I don't sell all that much, but I like having the features available to me so that if someone actually did want to buy some prints, I could have options.
Don
My Galleries
My Photo Blog
www.tednghiem.com
No, but there probably should be.
We recommend that everyone prices Bay Photo at the portfolio level AND EZ Prints at the portfolio level. Even if it's just to zero out all the items on the lab you don't intend to use. That way there won't be any holes to allow at-cost sales inadvertently.
When you go to gallery level pricing, it will inherit the portfolio pricing for whichever lab you have selected for that gallery. You just have to type in prices you want DIFFERENT than the portfolio pricing for that particular lab.
Image pricing is only available for the lab you currently have selected for the gallery containing the image. (But, we will store that price list so that if you switch labs for the gallery, and later switch back, that image will get the original lab's prices again. )
We also store the second price list at the gallery and portfolio level, but of course only one is active at a time, depending on which lab is selected.
Remember all this is only applicable for the Prints tab of the pro pricing page. The Merchandise and Download tabs only have a single price list for each level, and no lab choice.
Clear as mud?
Here's an example, in case it helps:
I set a 4x6 lustre at the portfolio level for Bay Photo as $6. I set a 4x6 lustre at the portfolio level for EZ Prints as $5. I choose Bay Photo as my portfolio lab, so the price my customers see is $6.
I could set one gallery as EZ Prints, and the customer would see $5 for that gallery.
If I wanted special prices for a certain gallery, I'd simply choose my lab and override whichever prices I need to. I might set a gallery to Bay Photo and set the 4x6 lustre price to $10. Or, I might set a gallery to EZ Prints and set the 4x6 lustre price to $0.21. That item will then be available at-cost to visitors.
One gotcha to keep in mind: The base price for Bay Photo prints will change depending on whether you have enabled Color Correction. So if you had color correction turned off for Bay Photo, and set your 5x7 price as $1.50, you'd run into a problem if you later turned color correction on. That is because SmugMug's non-color-corrected price is $1.15, but the color corrected price is $1.75. If this happens in your pricing, we'll show a clear error next to that item on your pricing page and the item won't be available for purchase until you set a price at least as high as SmugMug's default price.
Any lingering confusion?
-Anne
Mistress of Help
Sorry, we aren't clear enough yet on the help pages. You can save two price lists in your Portfolio, one for each print lab. The last vendor you selected and saved will be the default for new galleries. But you can set the vendor for that gallery to the other vendor and it will automatically take the proper list.
No surprise, I have a few questions.
After reading the raves about Bay Photos color correction, I am wondering about a work flow, and looking for your recommendations.
Option 1: Simply processing my images using my calibrated monitor, and sending them to bay, and let them color correct. Will this also include any adjustment needed for different printers / paper?
Option 2: Obtain Bay Photos ICC profiles, and continue to soft proof, and print without color correction.
Option 3: Soft proof to Bay Photos ICC profiles, and let them color correct.
With quality being the priority which of these if any would you recommend?
Once I get your input, I'll run some test prints, and post my results.
Thanks!
Sam
I hope this is something you guys can change in the future. For me, it will pretty much mean that I won't ever offer the pro lab. I don't want to raise all my prices in order to add some new products. And I'm sure I'm not alone there. I understand that combining them might be troublesome, but I hope you find a way. I do understand that I'm not the market you're targeting with this addition though.
I assume that right now an order could have prints from Bay and merchandise from EZprints, right? Any real reason "Pro Lab Prints" couldn't just be another tab in the purchase options?
Dave
Dave,
I can't speak for SmugMug, but I am very excited about the Bay Photo option, but I realize my emphasis is quality not price.
But as a thought, is it possible for you to separate the images your willing to pay a higher price for from those you where price is the bigger consideration?
I'm not sure exactly how I am going to set my site up, but for me I don't think it will a big deal to separate galleries, for the two printers.
Sam
Having said that - can someone give me a quick primer on:
Benefits/uses of giclee watercolor vs. Lustre
Benefits/uses of metalic vs. Lustre
I'm trying to get an understanding of the types of photos (and thus the customer audience) that would benefit by these better finishing techniques.
Very good questions. I've always been fanatical about color correcting my own shots, so before the pro lab tests we ran I would never have considered letting the lab do it. And we have 3 people at SmugMug who color correct orders for returned prints.
But after seeing how well they color correct, even I just let them do it for events like weddings. And our 3 color correctors often just send the order through Bay (that was also part of our testing).
We've been meeting with groups of wedding photographers in pretty much all-day sessions with them graciously giving us their time. Bay Photo (or whcc) was basically the #1 request most of them had. They don't want to spend time editing more than, say, 35 photographer's favorites per event. They're okay using something like Lightroom to get the photos good enough for display, then letting the lab correct them to print standards when an order comes.
What we heard from all of them is they can make more money shooting than saving on color correction. The only question that caused furrowed brows was how to do good enough color correction for display without dying of boredome.
Giclee watercolor is an artsy sort of print. People love them for portraits that they will frame and put on their wall for instance. It is on a paper that feels like traditional art paper, and is printed in a more "soft" and artistic method.
Metallic has become my new favorite "standard" finish. It is a glossy finish, and it almost looks 3d. The photos really "pop", I especially love it for prints with vibrant colors. You really should print a sample (even a 4x6) to see it. It is really quite cool.
Those are my non-expert opinions after having placed tons of orders for testing.
Baldy,
Thanks for your response. My primary concern today is fine art prints, including, abstracts, landscapes, and B&W. That said, (I'm not holding you to it) which if any of the three options would recommend, at least to start with?
Also, I haven't looked, can I find ICC profiles on their website?
Sam
In setting up prices for this, I realize I did it on the gallery level. I wish there were a way to apply gallery pricing to my portfolio pricing, just in case. (Couldn't figure it out for the life of me, and I didn't feel like manually entering everything again.
We're definitely still open to the idea, but this is a first release and it complicates the UI considerably both for the Pro and the customer. EZ Prints does professional-quality printing that we are quite happy with. Bay Photo adds hand color correction, higher quality packaging, shipping from a different location, and different products.
We don't want to distinguish between them by calling one "Pro" and one not, especially because many of your customers probably wouldn't understand the difference. So if we are able to figure out a solution, we want the control to be in your hands rather than theirs.
Definitely possible, but I never really know what pictures anyone might be interested in. I'm not exactly selling art... For the most part, people are buying pictures of themselves. My customers are generally not going to be interested in the brand of paper used. Every now and then someone will order a pretty big print. I'd like to be able to offer some of Bay Photo's offerings, but stick with EZprints for 4x6 standard glossy prints, etc.
This really isn't such a big deal to me since I might go years before anyone would order a pro lab print from me if I was offering them side by side with the cheaper EZprints option. But it is annoying to find out I won't use this service because it won't intergrate well into my site after months and months of hype.
Looking forward to coupons and packages... and hoping they are implemented in a way that I can actually use. [:)]
Dave
http://www.bayphoto.com/profiles/3E_9_4_2007_1.icc
I did not have time to read through this entire post so forgive me if this is duplication but...
When I went into gallery pricing I noticed "gallery" and "image"
Under Gallery it gave me the option of both EZ Prints and Bayphoto
Under image it only displays EZ Prints
Is this intentional?
Is there a reason for that?
Is it going to change later on to offer both?
Should I care if you offer both? :-)
Seriously, I'm not sure I understand why EZ only for a single image.
Now: THANK YOU Smugmug for your never ending dedication to excellence.
Markjay
Canon AE1 - it was my first "real camera"
Canon 20D - no more film!
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A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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New lab looks great, can't wait to order a few samples
Are there any plans to introduce the option for drop-shipping? IE, plain boxes, no mention of Bay Photo or Smugmug?
Are we going to be able to order with textures, borders/vignettes,
Also I see that Andy says we do not have the option to have photos mounted. Is this going to be incorporated soon.
If so how soon, before Wedding season?
for you" and there/ their is no grammar check yet so please forgive me Jesus did.
My Web site:
http://Glory2Jesus4Photography.smugmug.com/
My blog: http://glory2jesus4photography.blogspot.com/
In the future, custom label maybe? Boutique packaging as well.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
How soon? It's in the plan, we need to let the dust settle here, then get moving on this. Not giving a date yet, sorry.
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custom labels or boutique packaging would be great! looking forward to it
Of course it was.
In the meantime, what you've just given us is very cool! Thankee!