Bare bones equipment for weddings/portraits, the role of "second shooter"

lisarhinehart · March 9, 2009

What would you recommend for starting to build up very basic equipment for wedding photography and possibly portraits? I am self taught, starting small (budget and experience) and moving forward as I am able, with this hobby. Again, not thinking big time or big money-- slow and steady.

I currently focus on nature photography and have a cannon rebel with the factory and macro lens. I would like some direction as to what I type of equipment I should begin looking into, should I want to begin exploring weddings or portraiture.

I'm thinking a zoom lens, speed-lights, several batteries, a tripod... any specific recs would be very much appreciated. I am also thinking it would be good to find someone who I could "second shoot" for to gain some practice and learn from. How do I find someone like that?

--Lisa

Candid Arts · March 10, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

What would you recommend for starting to build up very basic equipment for wedding photography and possibly portraits? I am self taught, starting small (budget and experience) and moving forward as I am able, with this hobby. Again, not thinking big time or big money-- slow and steady.

I currently focus on nature photography and have a cannon rebel with the factory and macro lens. I would like some direction as to what I type of equipment I should begin looking into, should I want to begin exploring weddings or portraiture.

I'm thinking a zoom lens, speed-lights, several batteries, a tripod... any specific recs would be very much appreciated. I am also thinking it would be good to find someone who I could "second shoot" for to gain some practice and learn from. How do I find someone like that?

--Lisa

I was curious as to the same thing. A co-dgrinner started a thread that I kinda took over, just happened to be that way. Anyways...7 pages later A LOT of information was revealed. Might want to check it out.

Check it out here.

Hope this helps!

General consensus was:
Flash Bracket
multiple flashes
diffuser
light meter
RF wireless triggers
light stand(s) (for multiple flashes)
umbrellas (for those flashes)
+ any accessories for the hooking up of equipment.

I (and many others) provide many links to a lot of product in the above linked thread.

Some good lenses to look at are the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, the EF-70-200 f/2.8 L IS USM, 24-105 f/4 L IS USM.

Flashes (speed-lights), 580 EX II, 430 EXII, 430 EX, 420 EX.

Tripod...I would look in Manfrotto legs and ball head. Giotto makes good stuff. Check my signature for the models I have. Also, search around B&H or here.

Battery, definitely get a battery pack with extra batteries, this is a must have.

Art Scott · March 10, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

What would you recommend for starting to build up very basic equipment for wedding photography and possibly portraits? I am self taught, starting small (budget and experience) and moving forward as I am able, with this hobby. Again, not thinking big time or big money-- slow and steady.

I currently focus on nature photography and have a cannon rebel with the factory and macro lens. I would like some direction as to what I type of equipment I should begin looking into, should I want to begin exploring weddings or portraiture.

I'm thinking a zoom lens, speed-lights, several batteries, a tripod... any specific recs would be very much appreciated. I am also thinking it would be good to find someone who I could "second shoot" for to gain some practice and learn from. How do I find someone like that?

--Lisa

EDIT: CANDID ARTS beat me to it...take a look at his link.......end EDIT..........

I'll try to link to things I actually recommend....most links will lead to Ebay....just because it is easy to find things on there..........................

Camera - hopefully you already own..if so please let us know what it is..........

Flash unit - the best one you can afford by your camera manufacturer or a dedicated flash by Sigma 530, Metz, or Sunpak one with a very large guide number....

Tripod - the best you can afford - do not do the discount store type - you'll be sorrry - I like Giottos, I have a MT9180 and a Giottos P-Pod linking here to a Giottos Mt9360 very much like my 9180 and very close in price and I have had mine almost 5 yrs.......

A flash bracket - here are 2 that will not break the bank but will do the job and last for many many years....
Stroboframe Pro-RL and Custom Brackets Pro-M ..... right now I believe that Custom brackets has a lot ot offer but I like the Pro-M

An incident Flash meter can save your behind at times....I do 99.9% of my shooting of portraits, models and weddings in manual mode and I meter my shots a lot, I have been metering with a handheld for my whole career......and i still do....I do not chimp because i do not have time to and it DOES NOT LOOK PROFESSIONAL....
a decent light meter Sekonic L-358 o other brands tro look at on ebay are: Polaris, Shepard FM 1000, Minolta Flash Meter lll / lV .....all that I have listed will meter both flash and ambient together.....all will meter flash alone, some will meter flash alone or ambient alone....

A flash modifier.....I do not like the gary fong brand...they are heavy and only fit a particular flash and i own 3 styles of flash units for my cameras.....I like and use a lumiquest Softbox , they have a very informative site also....LUMIQUEST HOME PAGE ........there are DIY ones that Ziggy53 will recommend and each does work....

A good sturdy backpack or Pelican, Storm or SeaHorse hard case......for weddings and such I am movingfrom aLowePro backpack to a Pelican Deep Case with wheels....just my preference I still use my backpack for nature photography if I need more than I can carry in my home put together military pistol belt with suspenders...this rig was made for motorcycling mostly.....

Batteries for cameras - have at least 4 spares....I actually have 16 for me....but IK may beaway from electricity for a week at a time.....

Batteries for flash units - have at least 3X the AA's need to make it work or at least 2 quantum or Black Box power cells....after Learning of the Black Box I will be going wioth them over the Quantums..........

Spend some time learning lighting at www.stobist.com and learn post processing thru the Scott Kelby Training (photoshop guru, editor of Photoshop User....his books are written as a easy to follow recipe......)..............

Won't need full blown Photoshop unless you already have......but would recommend getting Adobe Photoshop LightRoom 2 andlearning to shoot in raw..........aalso ScottKelby's Book "lightRoom 2 for Digital Photographers"..........

A decent computer with a min of 2 gb of ram and hardrives for back ups....at least 3 deep.....my computer breakdown is as follows......"C" drive has all working programs and operating system.....nothing stored and i have 2 total clones stored in 2 different places away from my house.......for storage of photos.....I have a working drive and 2 back ups.....then I have a drive with all dng and the finished photos ... with 2 back ups......as i add to any main drive i re-clone and keep everything curent by the week then once a monthI do a clone of all off property drives.....that way i keep one driver updated weekly and then the off proerty is done monthly.......so if I loose the 2 on property I still can be up and going tomorrow asifnothing happened....................

This will get you started in the right direction and some will fill in with what they do not like about what I recommend and what works well for them.....this has worked well for me for over 25+ years and I am still learning and and still trading out equipment as I find something that works better......learn to use one flash unit them moveup to 2 and 3 as your talent progresses

Scott_Quier · March 10, 2009

I have to

with Art on most of his points ... and where I disagree, well that's just nits:D

First, read the resources found in the Wedding Photography Resources sticky. You'll find my thoughts there (and in the link in my siggy) and I, naturally think that's the best one there

'cause I wrote it.

Fast glass - this should come before a body upgrade. If you go with zooms, get one or two with a constant f/2.8 aperture. I'm partial to the Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS and the EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS - but that's a $3,000 (more or less) investment right there. As a second shooter, the first of these is where I would start. Of course, you can also look at the Tamron and/or Sigma versions of these. No question, these good optics, they just don't have the IS. And, opinions differ as to whether the IS is worth the cost at these focal lengths. I think it makes a difference - and I've done tests under actual shooting conditions. If you go with primes - I can't help you much there as I don't often use them, especially for event work. Anyway, an f/1.4 aperture is easy/cheap to get in most of the focal lengths in which you will be interested: 30mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, and 200mm will cover 95% of what you will need to shoot.

You may find that you want to upgrade your camera body - not because your's can't take good photos, but because your's may not be responsive enough to get the job done. Start up time, time between shots, buffer size - these are the things that can cause you to miss the shot. Even an upgrade to a 30D would be a significant upgrade. If you can swing it, a 40D or 50D might be better.

Like Art says, a good dedicated flash is a good idea. For Canon, I would recommend the 580EX II, but there are other options as well (see Art's comments).

If you are going to use on-camera flash, a flash bracket is almost a requirement. Where Art and I differ is on the choice of a bracket. I like the Newton Bracket products, and the Di100FR2 Flash Rotator in particular. I do wish Robert Newton would change the name of this device - it actually allows the camera to rotate under the flash as it should - it's not a flash flipper. It's light, durable, and does the job. I've had a pair of these for a couple of years now and love them.

Flash modifiers. See Ziggy's post in this thread for more details on this. This is, again, a differing of opinion between Art and me - it's all good.

Flash Batteries - lots of rechargeable batteries. At least three sets.

I always arrive at the job with at least 3 spare camera batteries. This is in addition to the two I have in the battery grip on each camera. I've had to dip into the spares once and having them along saved my bacon!

For portrait work, I can't think of a better place for you to start your investigations/research than a good long study of the Strobist blog. Check out the posts in his Lighting 101 - lots of good info there.

lisarhinehart · March 10, 2009

A novice with potential-- think bare bones and uber-basic
First off, I thank you for your quick and thoughtful responses. I am very impressed with your knowledge base and willingness to help someone that you have never met. You have given me some really great resources to look into and I really appreciate that.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I was not being modest in any way when I classified my self as basic, self taught and starting small, I’m beginning to think that may have been an overstatement, considering the caliber of the photographers on dgrin. I am certainly feeling “over my head” as far as what is the norm on this site— especially after reading responses to my post. That is good and challenging, and hopefully I will be able to fit in here, and learn. I have a lot to learn.
<o:p></o:p>
Even if I did have some of the equipment you suggested, I don’t know that I would be able to use it. Even when reading the manual from my rebel I got lost, it’s another language, which d-grinners seem to speak fluently. Maybe I need to read a for dummies book or post on a dgrin site for novices with potential.
<o:p></o:p>
A little more background on me: I started selling my (mostly) nature photography 2 years ago. I made enough profit in the first year to pay off my inventory (25 matted framed 8x10 enlargements), 150 note cards, EZ-up tent, business cards and other supplies. I made enough profit my second year to buy a Cannon Rebel and pay for this site. I am looking to see what to purchase with my third year’s profits (once I get there) with a long term goal of being a second shooter for weddings (maybe) or portraits (maybe). I am looking to spend likely $700 or so on equipment and asking for suggestions of the most essential bare-bones items.
<o:p></o:p>
My equipment is Canon Digital Rebel XT EOS, SLR. I have the factory lens and recently purchased a Canon Macro EF-S 60mm 1:2.8 USM. Now that I probably come across as pathetic you may not want to view my galleries, but are welcome to at www.lisarhinehart.smugmug.com. If you view them in “critique” you can see I mostly used a point and shoot, so bear that in mind. I think I have done well with limited resources, and am excited to get a few more and learn some more, and see what I can do.
<o:p></o:p>
You are all high quality, true professionals—you probably own your own business, amazing equipment and have this as your full time job. I am just starting out and would be (one day) second shooting for someone local, with no aspirations of becoming a professional—I love my day job. Bearing that in mind, what do you think would be essential for me?
<o:p></o:p>
I welcome your feedback and hope that this establishes where I’m coming from

Scott_Quier · March 10, 2009

First - to make life easier for everyone, don't color the text of your posts

lisarhinehart wrote:

First off, I thank you for your quick and thoughtful responses. I am very impressed with your knowledge base and willingness to help someone that you have never met. You have given me some really great resources to look into and I really appreciate that.

I was not being modest in any way when I classified my self as basic, self taught and starting small, I’m beginning to think that may have been an overstatement, considering the caliber of the photographers on dgrin. I am certainly feeling “over my head” as far as what is the norm on this site— especially after reading responses to my post. That is good and challenging, and hopefully I will be able to fit in here, and learn. I have a lot to learn.

Everyone starts in the same place you are now. I don't think there's anyone born with the knowledge. If I can learn the buzz words and what they mean - believe me so can you. Don't sweat it. As for fitting in here - we're all friendly. Are you friendly?:D No problems then - Welcome

!

lisarhinehart wrote:

Even if I did have some of the equipment you suggested, I don’t know that I would be able to use it. Even when reading the manual from my rebel I got lost, it’s another language, which d-grinners seem to speak fluently. Maybe I need to read a for dummies book or post on a dgrin site for novices with potential.

I firmly believe one has to be seriously twisted to be able to read the manuals that come with equipment. You can get after market books or you can ask questions here - lots of people here more than happy to help out. Learning to use equipment is just that - a learning. You had the same "problem" when you picked up your first camera. It's no different.

lisarhinehart wrote:

A little more background on me: I started selling my (mostly) nature photography 2 years ago. I made enough profit in the first year to pay off my inventory (25 matted framed 8x10 enlargements), 150 note cards, EZ-up tent, business cards and other supplies. I made enough profit my second year to buy a Cannon Rebel and pay for this site. I am looking to see what to purchase with my third year’s profits (once I get there) with a long term goal of being a second shooter for weddings (maybe) or portraits (maybe). I am looking to spend likely $700 or so on equipment and asking for suggestions of the most essential bare-bones items.

My equipment is Canon Digital Rebel XT EOS, SLR. I have the factory lens and recently purchased a Canon Macro EF-S 60mm 1:2.8 USM. Now that I probably come across as pathetic you may not want to view my galleries, but are welcome to at www.lisarhinehart.smugmug.com. If you view them in “critique” you can see I mostly used a point and shoot, so bear that in mind. I think I have done well with limited resources, and am excited to get a few more and learn some more, and see what I can do.

So, I took a quick look at your gallery. There's no surprise you were able to sell.

Your work gives additional force to the claim that "It's not the hardware, but the software that makes the difference!" (software being the brain and eye behind the camera)

lisarhinehart wrote:

You are all high quality, true professionals—you probably own your own business, amazing equipment and have this as your full time job. I am just starting out and would be (one day) second shooting for someone local, with no aspirations of becoming a professional—I love my day job. Bearing that in mind, what do you think would be essential for me?

I welcome your feedback and hope that this establishes where I’m coming from

I have photogarphy business, but it's not my 9-5. I bought the equipment I needed when I needed it to get the product I believed my clients expected of me. Sounds like you are doing the same thing. No issues there!

tenoverthenose · March 10, 2009

I think it depends a lot on how the lead wants the second to shoot. I like my second to have a fast telephoto for candids and no flash. The way I look at it, everyone looks at me as the lead. My second is responsible for getting the candids that I'm too busy to get, while everyone is looking at me. In this case, I just give my second a fast lens like a 85/1.8. It focuses quickly and has great subject isolation in crowds. I also give my second a 35/2 to use for wider shots. Those two lens can cover most shots if you know how to use them. For receptions I will also have the second use a flash, but I like the primes best because of the existing light.

But thats just my style

Art Scott · March 10, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

I have to with Art on most of his points ... and where I disagree, well that's just nits:D

Nits......You are now saying I have lice.......wellllllll Scott if we were in the same room.....I might hafta...........

First, read the resources found in the Wedding Photography Resources sticky. You'll find my thoughts there (and in the link in my siggy) and I, naturally think that's the best one there 'cause I wrote it.

Fast glass - this should come before a body upgrade. If you go with zooms, get one or two with a constant f/2.8 aperture. I'm partial to the Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS and the EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS - but that's a $3,000 (more or less) investment right there. As a second shooter, the first of these is where I would start. Of course, you can also look at the Tamron and/or Sigma versions of these. No question, these good optics, they just don't have the IS. And, opinions differ as to whether the IS is worth the cost at these focal lengths. I think it makes a difference - and I've done tests under actual shooting conditions. If you go with primes - I can't help you much there as I don't often use them, especially for event work. Anyway, an f/1.4 aperture is easy/cheap to get in most of the focal lengths in which you will be interested: 30mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, and 200mm will cover 95% of what you will need to shoot.

Yup I left out glass.....dang guys I had been staring at 80 something photos trying to judge peeps much betta than I at thses here challenges......
So for glass....I be a minimalist.......I started out back in the day of cave men with 1 lens (50mmf1.2) but quickly bought the first Vivatar Series 1 70-210 zoom to hit town,in fact it came out of the truck of the distributors car before he even showed it to the 1st store owner.....I was hooked.
Now I use 2 lenses a 24-70 f2.8 and a 70-210 f2.8....but for over 25 yrs I shot everything with just the 70-210.....yup everything .... portraits (in peoples homes), weddings, concerts, publicity shots,airshows, animals and even landscapes.....was it easy, not in the beginning.....now it is second nature........next camera will not see a 24-70 but the Sigma 17-70 asI want and need the extra bit of wideness for a crop body

You may find that you want to upgrade your camera body - not because your's can't take good photos, but because your's may not be responsive enough to get the job done. Start up time, time between shots, buffer size - these are the things that can cause you to miss the shot. Even an upgrade to a 30D would be a significant upgrade. If you can swing it, a 40D or 50D might be better.

YUP YUP YUP!!!!!!!..........maybe a nikon D300 but I did not mention it...................

Like Art says, a good dedicated flash is a good idea. For Canon, I would recommend the 580EX II, but there are other options as well (see Art's comments).

first you say I have lice now you're gonna make me blush

If you are going to use on-camera flash, a flash bracket is almost a requirement. Where Art and I differ is on the choice of a bracket. I like the Newton Bracket products, and the Di100FR2 Flash Rotator in particular. I do wish Robert Newton would change the name of this device - it actually allows the camera to rotate under the flash as it should - it's not a flash flipper. It's light, durable, and does the job. I've had a pair of these for a couple of years now and love them.

yeah I left off the newton, rss and some others.....only because Lisa said very basic and well that Newton is not what I deem basic or inexpensive......:D:D

Flash modifiers. See Ziggy's post in this thread for more details on this. This is, again, a differing of opinion between Art and me - it's all good.
not just Art and you.....but art and 90% of the
others....rofl
if we all use the same goodies then there would only be one good maker and all our pix would look the same toocause we would all mimic each other

Flash Batteries - lots of rechargeable batteries. At least three sets.

YUP YUP YUP

I always arrive at the job with at least 3 spare camera batteries. This is in addition to the two I have in the battery grip on each camera. I've had to dip into the spares once and having them along saved my bacon!

YUP YUP YUP

For portrait work, I can't think of a better place for you to start your investigations/research than a good long study of the Strobist blog. Check out the posts in his Lighting 101 - lots of good info there.

What Scott said

Agreements anddisagreements and fun stuff above in bold.........Go Scott, Go Scott, Go Scott Go

Qarik · March 10, 2009

wow..your nature shots are wonderful.

truly good stuff.

imo you need mid zoom type 2.8 lens (17-55mm or 24-70mm etc) but this can cost you a lot. Your 60mm mcro lens can do quite well though.

One flash

One gary fong diffuser (there is so much discussion on various DYI or other diffusers...all have pros and cons..but this one is used by a lot pro wedding guys and make a tremendous difference)

That's it for a begginer 2nd shooter type.

jeffreaux2 · March 10, 2009

I was in your shoes just a few short years ago.

I began with a Xti, a 50mm F1.8 ($80), a Tamron 28-75 F2.8 ($340 ish), and a 580EXII flash ($400 w/rebate).

I was nervous about the investment in gear, and also about what I had spent on a Smugmug pro account. To tally all of that up....including the camera I had about a $2k investment. To my surprise, I earned enough from my very first portrait client to pay for the Smugmug account and the 50mm. My next client paid for the tamron lens.....and it only got better from there.

Last year I was able to begin a major equipment upgrade. I bought a 70-200mm F2.8IS zoom, a 17-55mm F2.8 zoom, another 580 flash, an STE2 trigger to enable off camera flash, and just recently a Canon 50D camera.

All together I figure that I have around $7000 in gear in my bag. This...of course, is a sizeable investment for me....as I only do this part time. I have shot 7 weddings in the last two years. Not that many....but enough.....and already have two planned for this year.

This will be a big year for me. A turning point of sorts. I am not planning anything new....or planning to do any more work than I have in the past, but my confidence in myself (read= pricing) has caught up to my work. If you are "into" photography, it can all be very fullfilling.

My story is representative of many of the other fine photographers who frequent Dgrin....and we have each and all had some bearing on the success of one another....even if only in a small part.

You can start as big...or small as you like.....and grow from there.

- My very first portrait client.

-My latest portrait session...

sherijohnson · March 10, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

What would you recommend for starting to build up very basic equipment for wedding photography and possibly portraits? I am self taught, starting small (budget and experience) and moving forward as I am able, with this hobby. Again, not thinking big time or big money-- slow and steady.

I currently focus on nature photography and have a cannon rebel with the factory and macro lens. I would like some direction as to what I type of equipment I should begin looking into, should I want to begin exploring weddings or portraiture.

I'm thinking a zoom lens, speed-lights, several batteries, a tripod... any specific recs would be very much appreciated. I am also thinking it would be good to find someone who I could "second shoot" for to gain some practice and learn from. How do I find someone like that?

--Lisa

everything you have, you need two of including your camera, flash, lenses, etc. plenty of batteries, memory cards.

jeffreaux2 · March 10, 2009

sherijohnson wrote:

everything you have, you need two of including your camera, flash, lenses, etc. plenty of batteries, memory cards.

Not neccessarily....at least not for a portrait business. For wedding work, I would agree...somewhat.

A spare camera...and batteries for sure.....plenty memory-yes. As far as doubles for ALL of your lenses....NO.

For wedding work,
Just be sure that you have a good, fast wide to medium zoom.....and a back up plan in case that fails. Another zoom in THAT range....or a prime (30mm or 50mm)that you could skate by with would do the trick.

If you had an equipment failure during a portrait session, it wouldnt be unreasonable to reschedule. Embarrassing maybe, but not the end of the world.

A wedding...on the other hand is a one shot deal.

lisarhinehart · March 10, 2009

Thanks, can I get away with used equiptment
Thanks for the encouragement and welcoming me in-- it means a lot to me:D. You have all given me a lot of food for thought. Now I’m off to research prices etc. Do you really think I can get away with used? I’m nervous about the lack of warranty and possibility of purchasing a damaged product. Thanks!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Art Scott · March 10, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement and welcoming me in-- it means a lot to me:D. You have all given me a lot of food for thought. Now I’m off to research prices etc. Do you really think I can get away with used? I’m nervous about the lack of warranty and possibility of purchasing a damaged product. Thanks!<o:p></o:p>

All you need to do is make sure you have a resonable amount of time with a warranty...say 30 days from an individual and 60-90 days from a reputable retailer, e-tailer or if coming off ebay see if you can get a square deal warranty..........

I think I sorta answered this in your other thread in cameras...might ask a mod to meld them together since both cover pretty much the same things...............

Matt S · March 11, 2009

I am really surprised only one person mentioned a back up camera body. To me that's a very big deal, especially for a wedding shooter (granted the OP mentioned being a second shooter, but still a good idea). Other backups come in handy too. My flash trigger died on a shoot a week ago, without missing a heartbeat I yanked it off and slapped on a spare shoe mount flash and continued on with the shoot firing everything via slave modes. Had I no other flash or means to trigger I would have had a dozen very unhappy clients waiting for me to figure it out. You may not need to duplicate everything, but you do have to have a back up plan for everything!!

To Lisa: I am glad to see you look at this seriously, you have asked important questions and received great advice. Now go get em.

Scott_Quier · March 11, 2009

Matt S wrote:

I am really surprised only one person mentioned a back up camera body. To me that's a very big deal, especially for a wedding shooter (granted the OP mentioned being a second shooter, but still a good idea). Other backups come in handy too. My flash trigger died on a shoot a week ago, without missing a heartbeat I yanked it off and slapped on a spare shoe mount flash and continued on with the shoot firing everything via slave modes. Had I no other flash or means to trigger I would have had a dozen very unhappy clients waiting for me to figure it out. You may not need to duplicate everything, but you do have to have a back up plan for everything!!

To Lisa: I am glad to see you look at this seriously, you have asked important questions and received great advice. Now go get em.

- Hi Matt!

Second body - good idea. Hmmmmm .... where did I read that before? Oh, I know, in post #4!

I suggested the OP read threads linked in the resources sticky and, specifically, my thoughts.

But, you're right - a backup plan (Plan "B") is a must. One does not need to duplicate (have 2 copies of) everything in their kit. But, it is nice to have some over-lap or a way to cover if your first-string equipment goes on strike. For example, as suggested by Jeff, a couple or three primes (of appropriate FL) will nicely cover a faulting zoom. And, as implied by your great example, one needs to KNOW their equipment and how to use it in different ways.

urbanaries · March 11, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

Second body - good idea. Hmmmmm .... where did I read that before? Oh, I know, in post #4! .

Dontcha know Scott, we need backups to the advice about backups!

sherijohnson · March 11, 2009

my point was that one lens is not going to cut it, I have multiple lenses for both of my cameras but not identical lenses for each though if money was unlimited....there is no telling what I would be toting. Oh, one can dream.

Lisa.... your smugmug link didn't work.

Scott_Quier · March 11, 2009

urbanaries wrote:

Dontcha know Scott, we need backups to the advice about backups!

OK - I'll catch up eventually.

sherijohnson wrote:

my point was that one lens is not going to cut it, I have multiple lenses for both of my cameras but not identical lenses for each though if money was unlimited....there is no telling what I would be toting. Oh, one can dream.

Lisa.... your smugmug link didn't work.

Gottcha!

As for the link - worked for me yesterday and today.

Matt S · March 11, 2009

Alright Scott!!! Now who is to say that when I said I was surprised that ONLY one person mentioned a backup body I wasn't referring to your post?

(Ok so I missed that in my skimming, but still It could have been you) Ha ha:D

And yes you might need backups to your mention of backup while someone else gets their back up.

Ok I had better stop now!!!

jeffreaux2 · March 11, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement and welcoming me in-- it means a lot to me:D. You have all given me a lot of food for thought. Now I’m off to research prices etc. Do you really think I can get away with used? I’m nervous about the lack of warranty and possibility of purchasing a damaged product. Thanks!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

FWIW,

If you can buy used Tamron lenses, they carry a 6 year warranty. Just be sure to get a the original sales reciept...and confirmation that it is under 6 years old when you buy.

lisarhinehart · March 12, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

I think I sorta answered this in your other thread in cameras...might ask a mod to meld them together since both cover pretty much the same things...............

Yeah, I wasn't sure where to post weddings or equiptment so I put one on both.

lisarhinehart · March 12, 2009

smug mug link

sherijohnson wrote:

Lisa.... your smugmug link didn't work.

Yikes, that's scarey. I just used it and it worked for me, also others have reached it and given me feedback.

lisarhinehart · March 12, 2009

A huge twist in this thread-- (excitement, shock) a wedding opp
:eek1 Now there is a huge twist/shove in my whole researching equipment for possible wedding scenarios in the distant future… My sister-in-law is getting married on August 22 and has asked me to do the pics for her. It is last minute so I don’t know who else she could get, plus the photographer that people usually use around here is not very good and couples usually end up with a few usable pics, literally. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Some plusses: She isn’t picky and doesn’t expect much. She, and her future hubby, are a really cute couple that will likely give me some really good shots for promo and seem to have a beautiful location chosen (garden in the afternoon). I know her and what she likes, I also know who are her closest friends and family members. She loves the candid shots I take at our family events, and knows my level of experience/inexperience. Equipment is to be given in lieu of payment, not sure how much yet, but it’s on the table. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Some minuses: She’s family so if she doesn’t like what I do that could be awkward for a long time. I was not planning on doing anything like this for a long time and feel rushed to figure things out--(I have sooo much to learn). If it rains we are indoors- yuck, but maybe having a real speed light would help? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I am new to the forum, but I have poked around a bit and noticed that, especially on the wedding forum, it seems like there is much discouragement from taking opportunities like this. This was running through my head when she asked me. Also running through my head were my little wish list items that all of you have helped me to create and that this would be a way to start acquiring some of them and building a wedding portfolio. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I’m a little scared to ask, but advice, anyone? Plus, perhaps I should post another thread since the topic is so different? --Lisa

Moogle Pepper · March 12, 2009

Hey Lisa

You can always tell your sister in law that you can do it if you or her cannot find a photographer. Shooting family member's weddings can be scary, at first, and well do you really want to be shooting the wedding when you can be celebrating one of your family member's wedding? On the flip side it can also open a can of goods as you will be seeing their wedding in a different perspective.

I am new to the forum, but I have poked around a bit and noticed that, especially on the wedding forum, it seems like there is much discouragement from taking opportunities like this. This was running through my head when she asked me. Also running through my head were my little wish list items that all of you have helped me to create and that this would be a way to start acquiring some of them and building a wedding portfolio.

This makes me wonder what you are trying to get at. Do you mean photographing family member's weddings? Or wedding photography in general?

I can't speak for everyone, but generally, though it might not look like it but the topics here are to encourage and enlighten other users. Especially Wedding photography which can be very daunting if you are new to the field, it is really better to be see all the pros and cons, so you know if you are up to task.

Matt S · March 12, 2009

Lisa i would say this is the right thread.

Shooting for family is how I got started with weddings. I did it unofficially though, and refused to be the official photographer. That way it's no stress, and you can watch the pro in action. Plus you get to put your camera away and just enjoy the party if you like. Your concerns about it going bad and what would that mean in the future are valid, but probably not likely. It really could be the perfect opportunity for you.

As to the warning off you see here and elsewhere, I really think that has to do with people trying to make new photographers understand how big a deal a wedding can be. I can tell you it's a whole different kind of pressure when you have to deliver. Still everyone must start somewhere and if you can't second shoot for someone then this may be your ticket. Just make sure the excitement of being picked to do a job doesn't cloud your judgement as to wether or not your up to it.

Someone made a comparison to golf on this forum and I though it quite good. Just about anyone can hit a nice straight 250+ yard drive once or twice in a round of golf. A pro does it off every tee.

Now I sound like the naysayer!!!

Sorry I don't mean to be. I am only urging caution. Only you will know if you should do it or not. Personally if you think your up to it, I would say go for it.

Keep us updated.

Scott_Quier · March 12, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

I am new to the forum, but I have poked around a bit and noticed that, especially on the wedding forum, it seems like there is much discouragement from taking opportunities like this. This was running through my head when she asked me. Also running through my head were my little wish list items that all of you have helped me to create and that this would be a way to start acquiring some of them and building a wedding portfolio. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I’m a little scared to ask, but advice, anyone? Plus, perhaps I should post another thread since the topic is so different? --Lisa

I'm hoping the "discouragement" you sense is more in line with "please know what you are getting yourself in for" rather than "you're new and don't know a thing about wedding photography so go away and leave it to the pros."

Advice:

Get it in writing! - can't stress this enough. Write up a contract that spells out:
- You are inexperienced,
- You may screw it up - I don't think so but life happens
- What happens if you do - NOTHING .... give them no recourse
- What your compensation will be for shooting the wedding and party. Remember, as a shooter, you will be working and will not be able to enjoy either event.
Read Wedding Photography Resources. Lots of good information there, paying particular attention to the "Tips & Tricks" and to my "Thoughts on Photographing a Wedding".
Look at (study) the work of others for inspiration - particularly the posing of groups - for inspiration. Visit the web-sites of the photogs. Some will have only the cream on display. Others, like me, will have entire weddings in a series of galleries (BTW, I'm no where close to being the best photog here, but you are welcome to view my galleries).
Between now and your SIL's wedding, attend a couple or three weddings. Travel if you have to. Watch what the photog is doing. This can be a lesson in what to do or in what not to do. But, it'll help either way. You can learn a lot just by exercising your skills as a critical observer.
Develop a back-up plan for every contingency you can think of.
Develop, on paper, you ideal kit. Now, trim that down to what you will need. See what you can fund (purchase) and what you will have to rent or borrow.

P.S. - you have PM

geospatial_junkie · March 12, 2009

Personally, I would stay as far away from this as possible. Family and work often can cause a big family issue. Remember, even if they sign a contract knowing that you are inexperienced... they will still be upset if the photos do not turn out. This happened at my cousins wedding (one of his best friends was the photographer.... big mistake... they are no longer friends).

I would thank them for their vote in confidence, but say I would like to keep my professional and family life separate. Now... if you were to be a ghost shooter at the wedding or a family member with a camera then great! No pressure and you can experiment. Also, don't you want to have fun and visit with your family members during this time period?

lisarhinehart · March 12, 2009

Looking for 2nd shooter opp and basic equiptment
The “discouragement” is along the lines of what Scott described—a kind of “it’s harder than it seems, know what you are getting yourself into, leave it to the pros if you aren’t ready” type of thing-- also, the idea that mixing family/friends and business can make things difficult, too, as GJ mentioned.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I’m wondering if my best bet wouldn’t be getting very basic equipment in my price range. In particular, I’m thinking as several of you mentioned: Tamron 17-50, 430 ex, and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:metricconverter ProductID="50 mm">50 mm</st1:metricconverter> 1.8, extra batteries and memory cards and try it out, ideally as a second shooter. Maybe borrowing a friend's rebel as a back up.
<o:p> </o:p>
*My sister in law would have a big WHAT?!? If she read this post and probably say something along the lines of, “You are being too serious, don’t do all of that!!!” but I think it would be a good idea anyway. Again, she is not at all picky. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Is there a forum where I can post that I am interested in second shooting this spring or early summer to get my feet wet in my area? Also would you just rec posting on dgrin about the equipment I’m looking for and ask for specifics after I look into them a little more, maybe even check them out in person at a local photography shop?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I was able to get a few nice shots with my point and shoot, but like Matt’s golf reference, it wasn’t consistent-- it was too hard to make the camera capture what I saw. The more experience and equipment I have that I am able to use well, the more consistent and positive my results will be. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
--Lisa

Candid Arts · March 12, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

In particular, I’m thinking as several of you mentioned: Tamron 17-50, 430 ex, and <st1:metricconverter productid="50 mm">50 mm</st1:metricconverter> 1.8, extra batteries and memory cards and try it out, ideally as a second shooter. Maybe borrowing a friend's rebel as a back up.
<o:p></o:p>
I was able to get a few nice shots with my point and shoot, but like Matt’s golf reference, it wasn’t consistent-- it was too hard to make the camera capture what I saw. The more experience and equipment I have that I am able to use well, the more consistent and positive my results will be. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
--Lisa

First of all, may I HIGHLY suggest the 50mm f/1.4 USM over the 50mm f/1.8. better bokeh, A LOT faster focusing, 1/2 stop faster, better IQ...

This is something that was suggested to me by another pro on this site in reference to the same type of situation. If they don't have a lot of money to invest in a pro-photographer ($1500 or so and up), then don't let the pressure be on you. Tell them to spend what they can on a "day-after" session with a pro. Get a solid 2 or so hours in with a pro for $500 (or whatever they can afford). You shoot the wedding as a friend/family member with a camera, give them what you got, and call it good (if they feel the need to compensate you for what you did, can't stop them). But leave the pro shots up to a pro. Because as you might take a great photo on that day, and it'll capture the essence of the day when you first look at it, how will it look in 20 years? Will you still get that raw emotion from the day? As it is possible, it's less likely with less pictures. Where as a pro can do that, and that is what they are paying for.

Might want to take a look through this thread where I got that info from. There is a lot of good info there. And the motivation for me starting that thread can be found here (also good info).

Moogle Pepper · March 12, 2009

lisarhinehart wrote:

<o:p></o:p>
Is there a forum where I can post that I am interested in second shooting this spring or early summer to get my feet wet in my area? Also would you just rec posting on dgrin about the equipment I’m looking for and ask for specifics after I look into them a little more, maybe even check them out in person at a local photography shop?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I was able to get a few nice shots with my point and shoot, but like Matt’s golf reference, it wasn’t consistent-- it was too hard to make the camera capture what I saw. The more experience and equipment I have that I am able to use well, the more consistent and positive my results will be. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
--Lisa

Here you go:
http://dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

We, at Dgrin, can help you in almost all manners of Photography and Camera equipment! So just ask away!

Bare bones equipment for weddings/portraits, the role of "second shooter"

Comments