John gave me a good idea. What is the lens that you typically have on your camera during a wedding?
Sure you might use a macro for the rings and boquet or a zoom during the ceremony, but what is on your camera most of the time? I'm assuming your answer will be a "fast prime" (if I'm understanding it correctly as being a primary lens that is fast and good in low light) What specifically? --Lisa
That depends on how many camera bodies you are bringing.
But for me I have my 24-70 on my main body, and the back up, my 30D, has the 70-200 or the macro.
Standard zoom (17-55, 17-50, 24-70, 28-75, etc.) will do most of the work in a wedding. I still use the standard zoom but I'm trying to switch to primes - 35L and 85L. There are so many instances where extra light is needed and both fast primes and flash are extremely useful for weddings. Getting fast primes that make a difference over a standard zoom is definitely more expensive, like more than twice the cost of the best standard zoom (17-55 IS is probably $800 used, and 24-70L is about $900 used; 35L is $950-$1k used and 85L is $1450-$1600 used). The 17-55 has definite advantages over the 24-70L for crop sensor cameras, most notably the IS. Tamron's 28-75 may be sharp but the AF is far inferior to Canon USM lenses.
I still think the best choice would be Canon 17-55 IS, 580EX, with maybe Sigma 30 f/1.4 or Canon 50 f/1.4 or Canon 85 f/1.8 for a fast prime..
I am going to be doing a lot of shooting for my families/friends weddings this summer and this is what I chose.. I hope it helps . Please keep in mind that I am shooting FF with a Canon 5D so it may be different if you are using a crop.
24-70
85 1.8
200L
430EX
I would like to get the 135L and the 85L but remodeling my house won't allow for that at this time. I think this setup is pretty solid to get any pictures you are looking for at a wedding/reception.
I am going to be doing a lot of shooting for my families/friends weddings this summer and this is what I chose.. I hope it helps . Please keep in mind that I am shooting FF with a Canon 5D so it may be different if you are using a crop.
24-70
85 1.8
200L
430EX
I would like to get the 135L and the 85L but remodeling my house won't allow for that at this time. I think this setup is pretty solid to get any pictures you are looking for at a wedding/reception.
Now I just have to figure out how to use everything! I thank you for all of your help and have one final request-- where can I go to learn how to use this stuff?
Now I just have to figure out how to use everything! I thank you for all of your help and have one final request-- where can I go to learn how to use this stuff?
You're the best. --Lisa
Read the manual on the flash.
For the flash, lens, and diffuser: SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT.
That's honestly the best way. Just shoot, change something, check the result, change something again and check the result. See what does what.
Just a side note on the "Tammy"
I think you made the right choice going with the brand glass.
I had a "Tammy" 17-55 or maybe it was 18-70 2.8 the CA was horrible and I could never get the focus synced
I had a Sigma 70-200 2.8, also bad CA and slower focus than the brand glass.
On the GF LS I bought it a year os so ago, used it once and it has stared at me ever since creating a $48 dust ring on my hutch.
Congrats on the new gear! I still love my Tamron and will defend my (ridiculously sharp and responsive) copy with my dying breath, but since you had the money it was a no-brainer to go with the efs 17-55 - I think I've heard more good things about that lens than any other piece of glass in the lineup!
Enjoy - and post some pictures taken with your new goodies!!!!
Btw, there's a great sticky in the "technique" forum about the functions, capabilities, complexities and foibles of the Canon flash system - it's a wonderful how-to guide that demystifies a lot of the finer points of using them. You'll have a lot of fun with your flash once you get to know it!
Getting started with my great new equipment
So I've bought the canon 17-55, 580 exII, and fong cloud and attached them to my Rebel-- now I have to learn to use everything! I also know that I need to know a lot more about manual settings as prior to this point I've used auto, which is clearly not going to work well with my new stuff. So this is me both playing with the new equipment and trying to use AV, TV, and focus points-- results are shaky, but hopefully on their way up.
I would like some tips for the future as I will be working on my SIL's engagement shots soon. I could also use encouragement if you see anything you like as I am in need of a little confidence as I am self taught and needing motivation to push myself to learn this more sophisticated stuff.
One of the first things I wanted to do was see how the lens captured detail at a distance-- I was impressed
1. f7.1, 1/250
Next I wanted to see how it did with portraits-- again, good (I'm thinking using my flash would have eliminated shadows on her face).
2. f7.1, 1/400
Next I tried the lens indoors with the flash set to auto mode and pointing indirectly at the subject in a fairly dark room-- more shadow than I'd like but still MUCH better than my factory lens and flash which were my previous options.
3. f4.0, 1/60
Next I tried using the Fong Cloud in the same room-- I actually really like this lighting... I'm sure the 580 is capable of much better, but again compared to my other option-- much better
4. f4.0, 1/60
(She's getting tired of posing, if you can't tell)
5. f4.0, 1/60
I decided to try a different room-- this one has better lighting
6.
Next I went outdoors to try to get a shot of a frog at our pond. He isn't used to me yet, and typically jumps in-- but with this new zoom lens, I thought it was worth a try. I cropped this a little and it is still very clear.
7. f3.2, 1/500
In short, this stuff allows me to take much better pictures than I could have and I thank you all for your great advice as I am very happy with my recent purchases. Here are a few that didn't turn out.
Probably because we were indoors and at the far end of the room-- pretty far from the light, also he was moving (rocking to be exact).
8. f 2.8, 1/13
His skin tone seems to be off as well.
9. f4.0, 1/60
This seems to light and washed out. Which probably has more to do with the time of day (see the arch's shadow) than anything else. How can I compensate for too much light, ie a picture taken at mid-day?
10. f6.3, 1/250
Well thanks for taking the time to read this long post. I look forward to hearing from you. --Lisa
One thing that helps is putting numbers next to the images, it makes referencing them for critique a bit easier for us.
I'll just say a couple quick things...On the photos of the kids, the focus seems to be a little of in some places. Are you using f/2.8 and maybe rocking back and forth a little? The one of the girl laying on the bed (tired of posing shot) is good however I think I would have liked to see the entire top of her head instead of being cut off.
Girl with hose seems to be focused on hose instead of girls face.
Tilted shot of girl seems about 1/2 stop under exposed, plus the shadow on the back wall doesn't do much for me. Possibly try using OCF (Off Camera Flash). For this you'll need either a hotshoe cord or some sort of wireless triggering system.
Boy and Girl sticking tongue out, girls seems way OOF and boy seems slightly OOF. I again go back to are you using f/2.8 and rocking back and fourth maybe?
Boy in Different room, seems way OOF.
I'd like to know what the settings were on these photos. to get some idea of shutter speed and aperture.
The frog has excellent detail and color. IMO your best shot of the test series. Excellent composition, excellent color, decent contrast. My only nitpick might be that the flower is a little bright.
The 580, indoors, should be able to reach about as far as you need it to. Try adjusting it to fire for 2nd Curtain, and maybe bumping your FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) or switching to manual mode and making the flash just put out more power.
You have the lens I want, and it will be my next purchase. Your shots are more proof that I want this lens. Keep playing with it all and keep posting. Good luck. Congrats on the new equipment.
out of focus in need of technical knowlege and practice
CA, I'm really happy that you were the first one to respond, as you were constructive and kind. Thanks for the tip on numbering, I went back and edited those in as well as my settings which I'm imagining are atrocious.
I agree about being out of focus. I think I was so excited about having good light indoors that I didn't even take much notice of the lack of clarity. I do love low apps as I love the bokeh, saturation and glow of light-- I think I do need to go easy on it, though.
I think a lot of that has to do with me needing to master the TV, AV and focus points on my camera. All of these are things I have really only played with this past week (I know-- how could I have a rebel for almost year and use it like a point and shoot? bad).
I think I was using auto focus on these shots as the kids kept moving and I obviously wasn't keeping up with adjusting focus points accordingly. The frog however stayed still and I got the focus on his eyes-- the same place I would typically focus in a portrait. I believe I only have 7 focus points, and they aren't really in the best places, as I typically need them a third of the way in and they bisect the viewfinder diagonally and horizontally. What I mean is that I typically have the eyes in the top third and not in the center-- that would more be nose focus-- not so flattering. But maybe I'm missing somethign with focus points.
I posted my lack of technical knowlege on another dgrin forum and they've recommended a book, so I think that will help. Once I know what I'm doing I will need to get adept at making adjustments quickly and accurately. I need A LOT of practice. A local wedding photog is giving $30/hr private lessons for canon rebel users, so I'm thinking I'll need this after I read the book. I'm not impressed with her work, but I'm sure she can teach me a whole lot about the technical side.
I have no idea about an off camera flash-- the cost and trouble of managing it when I'm having enough difficulty with the AV, TV and focus points. I'm thinking those are most important at this point.
#7 I thought about going in photoshop and de-saturating the dandilion. I think I will. I agree that it's the best image. I'm used to doing macro nature, so I get the frog-- the whole lanscape and portrait is relatively new to me. I need to continue to push myself out of my comfort zone and practice doing so.
CA, I'm really happy that you were the first one to respond, as you were constructive and kind. Thanks for the tip on numbering, I went back and edited those in. I may go back in and edit in my settings as well.
I noticed that, and that will help. Thank you.
I agree about being out of focus. I think I was so excited about having good light indoors that I didn't even take much notice of the lack of clarity. I do love f2.8 as I love the bokeh, saturation and glow of light-- I think I do need to go easy on it, though.
There is nothing wrong with using f/2.8. It's great, and why you bought that lens. Just gotta make sure that you focus on where you want the focus to be, as well as steady yourself as to not move. Remember, even at the same aperture, your DOF will change as your subject get's closer or further from the lens.
I think a lot of that has to do with me needing to master the TV, AV and focus points on my camera. All of these are things I have really only played with this past week (I know-- how could I have a rebel for almost year and use it like a point and shoot? bad). I think I was using auto focus on these shots as the kids kept moving and I obviously wasn't keeping up with adjusting focus points accordingly. The frog however stayed still and I got the focus on his eyes-- the same place I would typically focus in a portrait.
focus points are amazing and can be your best friend. Get used to pushing that button to activate them and the dial to switch to the one you want. They come in handy ALL the time. I don't use Tv very often. My camera is always on Av or M. Auto focus is just fine to use, I use it all the time, just gotta make sure that you set your focus point and don't let the camera pic which point to use. You're smarter than the camera in what you want focus on.
I posted my lack of technical knowlege on another dgrin forum and they've recommended a book, so I think that will help. Once I know what I'm doing I will need to get adept at making adjustments quickly and accurately. I need A LOT of practice. A local wedding photog is giving $30/hr private lessons for canon rebel users, so I'm thinking I'll need this after I read the book. I'm not impressed with her work, but I'm sure she can teach me a whole lot about the technical side.
I have no idea about an off camera flash-- the cost and trouble of managing it when I'm having enough difficulty with the AV, TV and focus points. I'm thinking those are most important at this point.
OCF is something you'll want to play with, but yes, once you get the flash down and your camera. I'm just learning it myself, and finding out that it fixes so many problems that on camera flash creates.
#7 I thought about going in photoshop and de-saturating the dandilion. I think I will. I agree that it's the best image. I'm used to doing macro nature, so I get the frog-- the whole lanscape and portrait is relatively new to me. I need to continue to push myself out of my comfort zone and practice doing so.
Thanks for your feedback. --Lisa
I wouldn't de-saturate it, I would just do some burning on it. The color I like, it's just too bright. So try the burning tool and I think you'll be set.
I posted my lack of technical knowlege on another dgrin forum and they've recommended a book, so I think that will help. Once I know what I'm doing I will need to get adept at making adjustments quickly and accurately. I need A LOT of practice. A local wedding photog is giving $30/hr private lessons for canon rebel users, so I'm thinking I'll need this after I read the book. I'm not impressed with her work, but I'm sure she can teach me a whole lot about the technical side.
if you are not impressed with her work do not pay her your money to teach you to shoot like her. Might take a little more time but shoot and shoot and keep coming her for help. I have been doing that for little over a year now and have jumped leaps and bounds as far as technical know how and quality of pictures.
Actually surprised you are getting useful pictures with your 580 and rebel in AV and TV modes. Something I still have failed to do with either a rebel XT and now my 50D.
What I do now is set my camera to manual, set a shutter and or aperature to what I need or want. Set the other to an acceptable value. Set ISO as needed, low as possible of course. Then trust the 430ex to expose the subject properly.
Of course there is A LOT I need to learn about using a flash.
So for something like #8 I would have set a shutter speed high enough to freeze his motion, maybe start around 1/500 (?). Then give myself a little buffer in aperture, say f/4 or so. Set ISO as low as possible, remembering what the in camera light monitor is showing will be the background. Then shoot the picture. With a moving subject my focus selection would either be AI focus, or AI servo mode so (hopefully) the camera's auto focus compensates for moving subject.
Okay, critiques....
#2. I agree some fill flash would have been nice to kill shadows and give a catchlight to her eyes. Basically direct flash and FEC of -1 stop or so. I am still experimenting with fill flash myself but starting to have success like that.
#3. Impressive if that was a dark room and direct flash. Maybe we have different definitions of dark. Of course I started with a rebel and 50mm f/1.4 shooting in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit for a couple days without flash, DARK!
The shadow in this seems light and fairly soft considering.
#4. Cute picture. Likely suffering from DOF issues. Catchlights from the lightsphere are nice. Cute pose. I actually prefer the lighting I get from my reflector though. Seems shadows under the chins are pretty harsh.
BTW my reflector is a partially finished DIY scoop similar to the one Ziggy brags about.
#5. I like #5. Not sure about sharpness seems fine to me. Maybe eyes could be a little sharper. Those dark eyes are rough though. I would love to see them lightened up (the brown) to really make them stand out.
#6. The backlighting is a little rough on the right hand side of his head (his left). The backlighting makes it tricky. I might have liked a darker background but likely not possible with that window there.
#7. Not sure why you called the 17-55 a zoom lens. it is no longer then the 18-55 lens that generally comes with rebel camera kits.
I would likely darken the entire background. try a gradient filter in whatever PP program you use. hat would be easiest without getting into masks or local adjustment brushes.
#8. I already commented on above.
#9. Seems a little soft to me. Will not comment on colours since I know my monitor is not calibrated and is likely off by a fair amount.
#10. Reduce exposure in post. Then of course setting a black point makes a huge difference. Using lightroom I generally hit the auto exposure button as a beginning. I tend to like bumping up the black slider to get some clipping then get back my details using the fill slider. Of course then comes fine tuning with clarity. Depending on picture I tend to use the vibrancy or saturation slider, but the current set I am working on I have to go to the H/S/L and tweak individual colours.
Trust me, that picture isnot so bad. My current pictures are all overexposed by 2/3-1 stop and have almost no contrast when i am starting on them. Finished they are looking nice though.
i also shoot RAW and purposefully overexposed them though. I used spot metering on chest, face, or ATV with +1/3 or +2/3 exposure compensation leaving me with horribly blown reflections and skies. But with shooting RAW those areas are coming back very nicely.
Last comment.
Posting for feedback lie this would be better in it's own thread. Most likely people forum since your kids are not getting married yet
I have met a fellow smugger in my area who shared many mutual friends so I might be abel to second shoot for him this summer. He is shooting a wedding a few blocks from my home, so i hope he will let me tag along. We havn't met in person yet, so I doubt it.
T-I wanted to take some time to really review them as they were so detailed and therefore could prove useful. problem is when i took the time (tonight- the pics were gone! (I recently erased my smugmug alblums that had junk in them forgetting about this post, and possibly a few others).
T- you are right-- I decided not to meet with the photog who sin't very good. learning from her coudl really mess me up
I have posted some pics in the people forum, which also may be erased by now-- tea party, fairy! !
I don't see the trigger release built into it. It does look identical but I wouldn't use this one without that release built onto the handle.
The trigger release is an option, at least for the ALZO one. When I purchased mine, I added the trigger release and the cord to trigger the flash from the hotshoe to my order.
GaryB “The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
Lisa. One last recommendation, if you don't think you'll get to be a second or third shooter at a wedding before your SIL's wedding, I recommend going to http://www.jerryday.com and check out his Complete guide to Wedding Photography (I think that's what it's called). I purchased this and found it very informative, especially when it comes to posing for the formal shots. The photographer in the video takes you on 2 wedding shoots and explains everything he does, to a point. After the first shoot, he has the same couple in his studio, and explains the posing part, and the main thing he strsses in the video, is "if it bends, bend it". For the price of the DVD, I think it is worth the money spent, as you will have something to go back to, to refresh your memory before you go on future wedding shoots.
Also, when you're ready to buy your next camera, check out http://www.digicombos.com I purchased my Nikon D300 setup from them, and if I ever decide to buy another camera, I will definately buy from them again. The thing I like about them, is you pick the kit you want, and they let you substitute items that you might already have for something else. Hope this helps in the future.
GaryB “The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
They had fun, I had fun. I'm glad that I found a few local spots that work well for a background. I'm also excited that I took that big first step.
I'm interested in C&C, and your oppinion of best and worst shots. The couple is more intersted in flattering shots than technically correct exposures, but hopefully I have a couple that come close in both ways.
I'm also open for ideas of where to go from here. My ideas are to:
1. Review understanding exposure now that I have some practice.
2. Learn how to use me 580exII as it will make more consistant/better fill light
3. Get some more practice second shooting
4. Buy cs4 or lightroom (does this include the bridge?)
5. Figure out how to help consistancy from shot to shot
Remember to:
1. Keep out of the shade in the evening unless using fill (duh!)
2. Let the couple know that solid colors tend to photgraph best (her dress doesn't jive with busier backgrounds)
3. Slow down and see how the light is affecting their faces, not just the background (I know obvious, but I think the nerves got the best of me)
4. Slow down enough to give them time alone to get more candids, I was so focused on their goal (shot for the newspaper) that I took lots of those.
5. Stress the importance of arriving on time to get the best light (they were 45 min late)
First of all, may I say that your exposure for a majority of the shots are good. Little bright on some and a little dark on some, but over all...good.
The biggest thing I noticed right away, even before scrolling through the photos (just looking at thumbs) was that most of the shots the couple is dead center in the frame. Compositionaly makes for a boring photo. You do have a couple where you put them off to the side, which is nice, and also gave the camera a tilt, which can be very effective. It seems like some of your B&W's are a little gray/washed out. Might want to bring the blacks up a little so you have a true black in there versus dark grays... Also watch your cropping. In a few photos you have the top of a head cut off, or side of an arm or hand... Another good idea is to have the couple look off camera. Having the couple stare straight into the camera is usually not that pleasing to the eye, however sometimes it does work great.
Over all I think you did a fairly decent job with the shots. My biggest nit would be the couple in the center of the frames. I'd venture to say maybe 95% of the shots they are in the center or close enough to be deemed as the center.
Congrats on the first gig though...keep practicing...
Table of Contents:
1. So my friend/relative is getting married, and they've asked me to shoot the wedding. Should I do it? What should I charge?
2. What sort of gear do I need? Is my gear good enough?
3. I'm ready to start a really-real grown-up photography business in the US. What do I need to do?
4. Now that I'm a real business, how much should I charge?
5. Do I offer a CD of printable images with my packages?
6. Should I shoot RAW or JPG?
7. Should I shoot primes or zooms?
8. How do I become a second shooter?
9. In what mode should I shoot?
Just a little update, I recently invested in some gear (see my footer) and used it to take a few shots today of my daughter trying on her flower girl dress for my SIL's wedding. You can check them out at http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=136702.
I also have 2 second shooting dates coming up this month. Exciting stuff! Thanks for all of your support in getting me this far-- you are the best!
I am a little late to the discussion, but here is my 2 cents.......
I'd skip weddings.
There are hundreds, possibly thousands of less stressful, more profitable ways to make money with a camera.
Easily, the most profitable events I ever photographed were little league and hockey team pics. If you have kids involved in anything, you know what I am talking about.
High School seniors were a close 2nd at my shop.
One year, when I did my budget, I figured out how many hours it took to do a wedding vs high school senior vs sports shots (team type memory mates). Even though my average wedding sale was +$2600, it was the least profitable, per hour spent doing the work.
The woman that bought my studio has the right idea. She only shoots kids and seniors, the occasional family and is trying to work into sports type photos.
Comments
That depends on how many camera bodies you are bringing.
But for me I have my 24-70 on my main body, and the back up, my 30D, has the 70-200 or the macro.
www.tednghiem.com
I still think the best choice would be Canon 17-55 IS, 580EX, with maybe Sigma 30 f/1.4 or Canon 50 f/1.4 or Canon 85 f/1.8 for a fast prime..
24-70
85 1.8
200L
430EX
I would like to get the 135L and the 85L but remodeling my house won't allow for that at this time. I think this setup is pretty solid to get any pictures you are looking for at a wedding/reception.
.... and backups, right?
Here is a wedding website I created for a customer as a value-add. Comments appreciated.
Founding member of The Professional Photography Forum as well.
My new gear has arrived:
580 Ex II
Canon EFS 17-55 IS
Fong Cloud
Now I just have to figure out how to use everything! I thank you for all of your help and have one final request-- where can I go to learn how to use this stuff?
You're the best. --Lisa
My Website
www.tednghiem.com
Read the manual on the flash.
For the flash, lens, and diffuser: SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT.
That's honestly the best way. Just shoot, change something, check the result, change something again and check the result. See what does what.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
I think you made the right choice going with the brand glass.
I had a "Tammy" 17-55 or maybe it was 18-70 2.8 the CA was horrible and I could never get the focus synced
I had a Sigma 70-200 2.8, also bad CA and slower focus than the brand glass.
On the GF LS I bought it a year os so ago, used it once and it has stared at me ever since creating a $48 dust ring on my hutch.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Enjoy - and post some pictures taken with your new goodies!!!!
Btw, there's a great sticky in the "technique" forum about the functions, capabilities, complexities and foibles of the Canon flash system - it's a wonderful how-to guide that demystifies a lot of the finer points of using them. You'll have a lot of fun with your flash once you get to know it!
So I've bought the canon 17-55, 580 exII, and fong cloud and attached them to my Rebel-- now I have to learn to use everything! I also know that I need to know a lot more about manual settings as prior to this point I've used auto, which is clearly not going to work well with my new stuff. So this is me both playing with the new equipment and trying to use AV, TV, and focus points-- results are shaky, but hopefully on their way up.
I would like some tips for the future as I will be working on my SIL's engagement shots soon. I could also use encouragement if you see anything you like as I am in need of a little confidence as I am self taught and needing motivation to push myself to learn this more sophisticated stuff.
One of the first things I wanted to do was see how the lens captured detail at a distance-- I was impressed
1. f7.1, 1/250
Next I wanted to see how it did with portraits-- again, good (I'm thinking using my flash would have eliminated shadows on her face).
2. f7.1, 1/400
Next I tried the lens indoors with the flash set to auto mode and pointing indirectly at the subject in a fairly dark room-- more shadow than I'd like but still MUCH better than my factory lens and flash which were my previous options.
3. f4.0, 1/60
Next I tried using the Fong Cloud in the same room-- I actually really like this lighting... I'm sure the 580 is capable of much better, but again compared to my other option-- much better
4. f4.0, 1/60
(She's getting tired of posing, if you can't tell)
5. f4.0, 1/60
I decided to try a different room-- this one has better lighting
6.
Next I went outdoors to try to get a shot of a frog at our pond. He isn't used to me yet, and typically jumps in-- but with this new zoom lens, I thought it was worth a try. I cropped this a little and it is still very clear.
7. f3.2, 1/500
In short, this stuff allows me to take much better pictures than I could have and I thank you all for your great advice as I am very happy with my recent purchases. Here are a few that didn't turn out.
Probably because we were indoors and at the far end of the room-- pretty far from the light, also he was moving (rocking to be exact).
8. f 2.8, 1/13
His skin tone seems to be off as well.
9. f4.0, 1/60
This seems to light and washed out. Which probably has more to do with the time of day (see the arch's shadow) than anything else. How can I compensate for too much light, ie a picture taken at mid-day?
10. f6.3, 1/250
Well thanks for taking the time to read this long post. I look forward to hearing from you. --Lisa
My Website
I'll just say a couple quick things...On the photos of the kids, the focus seems to be a little of in some places. Are you using f/2.8 and maybe rocking back and forth a little? The one of the girl laying on the bed (tired of posing shot) is good however I think I would have liked to see the entire top of her head instead of being cut off.
Girl with hose seems to be focused on hose instead of girls face.
Tilted shot of girl seems about 1/2 stop under exposed, plus the shadow on the back wall doesn't do much for me. Possibly try using OCF (Off Camera Flash). For this you'll need either a hotshoe cord or some sort of wireless triggering system.
Boy and Girl sticking tongue out, girls seems way OOF and boy seems slightly OOF. I again go back to are you using f/2.8 and rocking back and fourth maybe?
Boy in Different room, seems way OOF.
I'd like to know what the settings were on these photos. to get some idea of shutter speed and aperture.
The frog has excellent detail and color. IMO your best shot of the test series. Excellent composition, excellent color, decent contrast. My only nitpick might be that the flower is a little bright.
The 580, indoors, should be able to reach about as far as you need it to. Try adjusting it to fire for 2nd Curtain, and maybe bumping your FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) or switching to manual mode and making the flash just put out more power.
You have the lens I want, and it will be my next purchase. Your shots are more proof that I want this lens. Keep playing with it all and keep posting. Good luck. Congrats on the new equipment.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
CA, I'm really happy that you were the first one to respond, as you were constructive and kind. Thanks for the tip on numbering, I went back and edited those in as well as my settings which I'm imagining are atrocious.
I agree about being out of focus. I think I was so excited about having good light indoors that I didn't even take much notice of the lack of clarity. I do love low apps as I love the bokeh, saturation and glow of light-- I think I do need to go easy on it, though.
I think a lot of that has to do with me needing to master the TV, AV and focus points on my camera. All of these are things I have really only played with this past week (I know-- how could I have a rebel for almost year and use it like a point and shoot? bad).
I think I was using auto focus on these shots as the kids kept moving and I obviously wasn't keeping up with adjusting focus points accordingly. The frog however stayed still and I got the focus on his eyes-- the same place I would typically focus in a portrait. I believe I only have 7 focus points, and they aren't really in the best places, as I typically need them a third of the way in and they bisect the viewfinder diagonally and horizontally. What I mean is that I typically have the eyes in the top third and not in the center-- that would more be nose focus-- not so flattering. But maybe I'm missing somethign with focus points.
I posted my lack of technical knowlege on another dgrin forum and they've recommended a book, so I think that will help. Once I know what I'm doing I will need to get adept at making adjustments quickly and accurately. I need A LOT of practice. A local wedding photog is giving $30/hr private lessons for canon rebel users, so I'm thinking I'll need this after I read the book. I'm not impressed with her work, but I'm sure she can teach me a whole lot about the technical side.
I have no idea about an off camera flash-- the cost and trouble of managing it when I'm having enough difficulty with the AV, TV and focus points. I'm thinking those are most important at this point.
#7 I thought about going in photoshop and de-saturating the dandilion. I think I will. I agree that it's the best image. I'm used to doing macro nature, so I get the frog-- the whole lanscape and portrait is relatively new to me. I need to continue to push myself out of my comfort zone and practice doing so.
Thanks for your feedback. --Lisa
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I noticed that, and that will help. Thank you.
There is nothing wrong with using f/2.8. It's great, and why you bought that lens. Just gotta make sure that you focus on where you want the focus to be, as well as steady yourself as to not move. Remember, even at the same aperture, your DOF will change as your subject get's closer or further from the lens.
focus points are amazing and can be your best friend. Get used to pushing that button to activate them and the dial to switch to the one you want. They come in handy ALL the time. I don't use Tv very often. My camera is always on Av or M. Auto focus is just fine to use, I use it all the time, just gotta make sure that you set your focus point and don't let the camera pic which point to use. You're smarter than the camera in what you want focus on.
OCF is something you'll want to play with, but yes, once you get the flash down and your camera. I'm just learning it myself, and finding out that it fixes so many problems that on camera flash creates.
I wouldn't de-saturate it, I would just do some burning on it. The color I like, it's just too bright. So try the burning tool and I think you'll be set.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
if you are not impressed with her work do not pay her your money to teach you to shoot like her. Might take a little more time but shoot and shoot and keep coming her for help. I have been doing that for little over a year now and have jumped leaps and bounds as far as technical know how and quality of pictures.
Actually surprised you are getting useful pictures with your 580 and rebel in AV and TV modes. Something I still have failed to do with either a rebel XT and now my 50D.
What I do now is set my camera to manual, set a shutter and or aperature to what I need or want. Set the other to an acceptable value. Set ISO as needed, low as possible of course. Then trust the 430ex to expose the subject properly.
Of course there is A LOT I need to learn about using a flash.
So for something like #8 I would have set a shutter speed high enough to freeze his motion, maybe start around 1/500 (?). Then give myself a little buffer in aperture, say f/4 or so. Set ISO as low as possible, remembering what the in camera light monitor is showing will be the background. Then shoot the picture. With a moving subject my focus selection would either be AI focus, or AI servo mode so (hopefully) the camera's auto focus compensates for moving subject.
Okay, critiques....
#2. I agree some fill flash would have been nice to kill shadows and give a catchlight to her eyes. Basically direct flash and FEC of -1 stop or so. I am still experimenting with fill flash myself but starting to have success like that.
#3. Impressive if that was a dark room and direct flash. Maybe we have different definitions of dark. Of course I started with a rebel and 50mm f/1.4 shooting in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit for a couple days without flash, DARK!
The shadow in this seems light and fairly soft considering.
#4. Cute picture. Likely suffering from DOF issues. Catchlights from the lightsphere are nice. Cute pose. I actually prefer the lighting I get from my reflector though. Seems shadows under the chins are pretty harsh.
BTW my reflector is a partially finished DIY scoop similar to the one Ziggy brags about.
#5. I like #5. Not sure about sharpness seems fine to me. Maybe eyes could be a little sharper. Those dark eyes are rough though. I would love to see them lightened up (the brown) to really make them stand out.
#6. The backlighting is a little rough on the right hand side of his head (his left). The backlighting makes it tricky. I might have liked a darker background but likely not possible with that window there.
#7. Not sure why you called the 17-55 a zoom lens. it is no longer then the 18-55 lens that generally comes with rebel camera kits.
I would likely darken the entire background. try a gradient filter in whatever PP program you use. hat would be easiest without getting into masks or local adjustment brushes.
#8. I already commented on above.
#9. Seems a little soft to me. Will not comment on colours since I know my monitor is not calibrated and is likely off by a fair amount.
#10. Reduce exposure in post. Then of course setting a black point makes a huge difference. Using lightroom I generally hit the auto exposure button as a beginning. I tend to like bumping up the black slider to get some clipping then get back my details using the fill slider. Of course then comes fine tuning with clarity. Depending on picture I tend to use the vibrancy or saturation slider, but the current set I am working on I have to go to the H/S/L and tweak individual colours.
Trust me, that picture isnot so bad. My current pictures are all overexposed by 2/3-1 stop and have almost no contrast when i am starting on them. Finished they are looking nice though.
i also shoot RAW and purposefully overexposed them though. I used spot metering on chest, face, or ATV with +1/3 or +2/3 exposure compensation leaving me with horribly blown reflections and skies. But with shooting RAW those areas are coming back very nicely.
Last comment.
Posting for feedback lie this would be better in it's own thread. Most likely people forum since your kids are not getting married yet
Enjoy the new toys.
Thanks for all your comments
I have met a fellow smugger in my area who shared many mutual friends so I might be abel to second shoot for him this summer. He is shooting a wedding a few blocks from my home, so i hope he will let me tag along. We havn't met in person yet, so I doubt it.
T-I wanted to take some time to really review them as they were so detailed and therefore could prove useful. problem is when i took the time (tonight- the pics were gone! (I recently erased my smugmug alblums that had junk in them forgetting about this post, and possibly a few others).
T- you are right-- I decided not to meet with the photog who sin't very good. learning from her coudl really mess me up
I have posted some pics in the people forum, which also may be erased by now-- tea party, fairy!
Good night!
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The trigger release is an option, at least for the ALZO one. When I purchased mine, I added the trigger release and the cord to trigger the flash from the hotshoe to my order.
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
Also, when you're ready to buy your next camera, check out http://www.digicombos.com I purchased my Nikon D300 setup from them, and if I ever decide to buy another camera, I will definately buy from them again. The thing I like about them, is you pick the kit you want, and they let you substitute items that you might already have for something else. Hope this helps in the future.
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
Here is a link to my first engagement shoot:
http://www.lisarhinehart.smugmug.com/gallery/8630721_jbNQ3
They had fun, I had fun. I'm glad that I found a few local spots that work well for a background. I'm also excited that I took that big first step.
I'm interested in C&C, and your oppinion of best and worst shots. The couple is more intersted in flattering shots than technically correct exposures, but hopefully I have a couple that come close in both ways.
I'm also open for ideas of where to go from here. My ideas are to:
1. Review understanding exposure now that I have some practice.
2. Learn how to use me 580exII as it will make more consistant/better fill light
3. Get some more practice second shooting
4. Buy cs4 or lightroom (does this include the bridge?)
5. Figure out how to help consistancy from shot to shot
Remember to:
1. Keep out of the shade in the evening unless using fill (duh!)
2. Let the couple know that solid colors tend to photgraph best (her dress doesn't jive with busier backgrounds)
3. Slow down and see how the light is affecting their faces, not just the background (I know obvious, but I think the nerves got the best of me)
4. Slow down enough to give them time alone to get more candids, I was so focused on their goal (shot for the newspaper) that I took lots of those.
5. Stress the importance of arriving on time to get the best light (they were 45 min late)
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The biggest thing I noticed right away, even before scrolling through the photos (just looking at thumbs) was that most of the shots the couple is dead center in the frame. Compositionaly makes for a boring photo. You do have a couple where you put them off to the side, which is nice, and also gave the camera a tilt, which can be very effective. It seems like some of your B&W's are a little gray/washed out. Might want to bring the blacks up a little so you have a true black in there versus dark grays... Also watch your cropping. In a few photos you have the top of a head cut off, or side of an arm or hand... Another good idea is to have the couple look off camera. Having the couple stare straight into the camera is usually not that pleasing to the eye, however sometimes it does work great.
Over all I think you did a fairly decent job with the shots. My biggest nit would be the couple in the center of the frames. I'd venture to say maybe 95% of the shots they are in the center or close enough to be deemed as the center.
Congrats on the first gig though...keep practicing...
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/728814/0
Table of Contents:
1. So my friend/relative is getting married, and they've asked me to shoot the wedding. Should I do it? What should I charge?
2. What sort of gear do I need? Is my gear good enough?
3. I'm ready to start a really-real grown-up photography business in the US. What do I need to do?
4. Now that I'm a real business, how much should I charge?
5. Do I offer a CD of printable images with my packages?
6. Should I shoot RAW or JPG?
7. Should I shoot primes or zooms?
8. How do I become a second shooter?
9. In what mode should I shoot?
*moderator-- maybe this should become a sticky?
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Hello friends.
Just a little update, I recently invested in some gear (see my footer) and used it to take a few shots today of my daughter trying on her flower girl dress for my SIL's wedding. You can check them out at http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=136702.
I also have 2 second shooting dates coming up this month. Exciting stuff! Thanks for all of your support in getting me this far-- you are the best!
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I'd skip weddings.
There are hundreds, possibly thousands of less stressful, more profitable ways to make money with a camera.
Easily, the most profitable events I ever photographed were little league and hockey team pics. If you have kids involved in anything, you know what I am talking about.
High School seniors were a close 2nd at my shop.
One year, when I did my budget, I figured out how many hours it took to do a wedding vs high school senior vs sports shots (team type memory mates). Even though my average wedding sale was +$2600, it was the least profitable, per hour spent doing the work.
The woman that bought my studio has the right idea. She only shoots kids and seniors, the occasional family and is trying to work into sports type photos.
Tom B