Thanks to everyone who gave me advice on cloning out unwanted items in Photoshop. I'll give it a try again later on...
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
A perfect example is Porter's entry itself. I thought it had far higher level of difficulty than most entries in the competition and it was right on the theme too, which is why I was surprised that it was not selected. Would her entry have been selected, had she been a longtime member on this board with a win or 2 under her belt? Something to think about …
The problem with Porter's entry was that it was more about showing off a lot of funny-looking props (eyes under the bed, fake spider webs, a plastic skeleton, spiders, a dog, etc.) than creating a compelling image. If this were a contest to decorate your neighborhood's haunted house walk for the kiddies, Porter would have won hands down. But as a photograph, the end result looked cluttered. The dog's feet are cut off at the bottom of the image (and shouldn't a witch have a black cat, not a dog?) , there's a distracting white line coming in diagonally from the lower-left corner, the crinkly black background material is clearly identifiable as crinkly black background material (instead of an abstract black color or, even better, an appropriate dungeon-like setting), and the line between the red floor and black background slopes up diagonally to the left for no discernable reason. The overall effect is cheap and haphazard.
The good part of this photo is the witch herself. She is wearing effective makeup, lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus, although it's hard to tell because she is so small in the overall picture. If Porter had shot a close-up portrait of the witch herself striking that pose, he (she?) might very well be in the finals right now. Imagine this crop as a much bigger picture:
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
The problem with Porter's entry was that it was more about showing off a lot of funny-looking props (eyes under the bed, fake spider webs, a plastic skeleton, spiders, a dog, etc.) than creating a compelling image. If this were a contest to decorate your neighborhood's haunted house walk for the kiddies, Porter would have won hands down. But as a photograph, the end result looked cluttered. The dog's feet are cut off at the bottom of the image (and shouldn't a witch have a black cat, not a dog?) , there's a distracting white line coming in diagonally from the lower-left corner, the crinkly black background material is clearly identifiable as crinkly black background material (instead of an abstract black color or, even better, an appropriate dungeon-like setting), and the line between the red floor and black background slopes up diagonally to the left for no discernable reason. The overall effect is cheap and haphazard.
The good part of this photo is the witch herself. She is wearing effective makeup, lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus, although it's hard to tell because she is so small in the overall picture. If Porter had shot a close-up portrait of the witch herself striking that pose, he (she?) might very well be in the finals right now. Imagine this crop as a much bigger picture:
Well, since you asked... I suppose this won't make me any friends, but surely I'm not the only one who's supposed to have a thick skin about criticism, right? So here we go:
Curious Camel – Specious. There is nothing really wrong with this photo, but nothing particularly interesting, unusual, or compelling about it, either. Nor is it outstanding on a technical level. There's good detail in the hair, but the overall image (as viewed on my monitor) seems flat, dull, and a bit underexposed, with a lack of contrast between shadows and highlights.
I really don't know how to respond to your feelings of my entry except to say I am sorry that you did not feel it was worthy to be in the finals. I to have had my fair share of not getting chosen and trying to understand why.
I got some great advise from a man I consider to be my brother and that is that you should be having fun. I try to make that one of goals when working on my entries. Other goals are of course to learning something from it if I win or loose.
Finally, I have several photos I put up to get feedback on and this was one of them. I had a version of this with more light that I personally liked better but the people that I asked on smugmug and my friends all chose this one so that's why I decided on it.
I've sat on my hands for 24hrs, but I just have to say something.
Manbou - may I respectfully request that you remember that the photographers who took the images you're critiquing are no doubt READING this? Maybe it's not intentional, but I find your sometimes almost hostile tone makes it sound like you're talking in abstract about 3rd parties who will never see the comments instead of people who are right there "in the room" - I know if I were reading about myself, I would likely feel quite defensive not necessarily because of WHAT you're saying, but how you're saying it (and believe me, I have a VERY thick skin - my entire professional life as a singer is about putting myself out there to be subjectively judged, so it's not like I'm some delicate flower!)
Please note that I am NOT saying don't discuss and don't critique, but I think there are ways of doing that which can allow the person on the receiving end to feel they've had helpful input rather than been raked over the coals.
Your image didn't make it. Some of the others did. Life goes on, the sun will come up tomorrow, no babies or animals have been harmed and multiple opinions can coexist. Right????!!?? The ensuing discussion has been good (and once again demonstrates that dgrin is possibly the most civil place on the internet), but... can't we rustle up some sportsmanship and a bit of tact here?
I've sat on my hands for 24hrs, but I just have to say something.
Manbou - may I respectfully request that you remember that the photographers who took the images you're critiquing are no doubt READING this? Maybe it's not intentional, but I find your sometimes almost hostile tone makes it sound like you're talking in abstract about 3rd parties who will never see the comments instead of people who are right there "in the room" - I know if I were reading about myself, I would likely feel quite defensive not necessarily because of WHAT you're saying, but how you're saying it (and believe me, I have a VERY thick skin - my entire professional life as a singer is about putting myself out there to be subjectively judged, so it's not like I'm some delicate flower!)
Please note that I am NOT saying don't discuss and don't critique, but I think there are ways of doing that which can allow the person on the receiving end to feel they've had helpful input rather than been raked over the coals.
Your image didn't make it. Some of the others did. Life goes on, the sun will come up tomorrow, no babies or animals have been harmed and multiple opinions can coexist. Right????!!?? The ensuing discussion has been good (and once again demonstrates that dgrin is possibly the most civil place on the internet), but... can't we rustle up some sportsmanship and a bit of tact here?
Thanks.
Amen!
Karin
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
The problem with Porter's entry was that it was more about showing off a lot of funny-looking props (eyes under the bed, fake spider webs, a plastic skeleton, spiders, a dog, etc.) than creating a compelling image. If this were a contest to decorate your neighborhood's haunted house walk for the kiddies, Porter would have won hands down. But as a photograph, the end result looked cluttered. The dog's feet are cut off at the bottom of the image (and shouldn't a witch have a black cat, not a dog?) , there's a distracting white line coming in diagonally from the lower-left corner, the crinkly black background material is clearly identifiable as crinkly black background material (instead of an abstract black color or, even better, an appropriate dungeon-like setting), and the line between the red floor and black background slopes up diagonally to the left for no discernable reason. The overall effect is cheap and haphazard.
The good part of this photo is the witch herself. She is wearing effective makeup, lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus, although it's hard to tell because she is so small in the overall picture. If Porter had shot a close-up portrait of the witch herself striking that pose, he (she?) might very well be in the finals right now. Imagine this crop as a much bigger picture:
Gee, "thanks" for your criticism. I'm sure you meant it in a helpful way. These are all things I'll take into consideration.
No one has to fake praise for my images but I don't see why you used "cheap" and "haphazard" seems a little beyond constructive criticism. I know why I didn't make the finals round- but thanks for rubbing more dirt in it.
Stop tearing other photos down and get on with your life- this is supposed to be fun for everyone involved.
The Mammas Are in The House
Uh ohhhhhhhhhh, you gots all the mamas on your tail now...run for cover....:hide:hide:hide:lynnsite Diva's in "the house"...rofl
Seriously... I must agree.. there is a line between constructive criticism and then tearing others work down under a microscope in front of everyone which just appears to be anger because yours did not place... so let it go...:argue
So, does anyone else notice Shatch looks like Nicolas Cage? or at least the avatar he or she uses does...lol
can you tell I am bored.... I really need to get back to work...
The problem with Porter's entry was that it was more about showing off a lot of funny-looking props (eyes under the bed, fake spider webs, a plastic skeleton, spiders, a dog, etc.) than creating a compelling image. If this were a contest to decorate your neighborhood's haunted house walk for the kiddies, Porter would have won hands down. But as a photograph, the end result looked cluttered. The dog's feet are cut off at the bottom of the image (and shouldn't a witch have a black cat, not a dog?) , there's a distracting white line coming in diagonally from the lower-left corner, the crinkly black background material is clearly identifiable as crinkly black background material (instead of an abstract black color or, even better, an appropriate dungeon-like setting), and the line between the red floor and black background slopes up diagonally to the left for no discernable reason. The overall effect is cheap and haphazard.
The good part of this photo is the witch herself. She is wearing effective makeup, lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus, although it's hard to tell because she is so small in the overall picture. If Porter had shot a close-up portrait of the witch herself striking that pose, he (she?) might very well be in the finals right now. Imagine this crop as a much bigger picture:
Ummm, that is a bit harsh. You don't have to like somebody's work, however I think there are better ways to critique them. I don't think any Photographer would appreciate the kind of words you are using for expressing your feelings towards their work.
What an interesting thread this has turned out to be! I thought maybe I'd get back to what it started out to be....my image ,which obviosly wasn't a planned image (Captivating Fawn) how could you possibly plan that? Anyway, this innocent little newborn???not quite sure, was abandoned one morning in my back yard. Now, it is not unusual for me to see deer on my property, but this was a first. It actually happened the same morning Aaron posted the new mini challenge theme, "unexpected" and my thoughts for this picture was to enter it there, but it spoke "fair" to me also, so I figured I'd give it a shot. (I did have a different idea in my mind, but it never panned out.)
I have to tell you I watched this poor little thing all morning, hoping and praying that his mother would come back for him, because I knew if she didn't, the coyotes that we hear almost nightly would surely find him. I called my brother who is a Forester in a nearby county forest preserve, to ask him what I should do, he said I needed to let nature take it's course, not what I wanted to hear. Long story short, sometime between 2:45 and 3:00 after I had just brought out some water in a dish for him, he was gone. I feel pretty sure that mom came back for him, and there were no sounds of coyotes that night, so I am hoping that it all turned out okay.
Sorry for the rambling......
Lastly, I just wanted to add that I too have had ups and downs in these challenges, but it is fun, and if it weren't for these challenges i probably would not be growing in my love for photography. I think the majority of the dgrinners here truly care and want to help others improve their skills. So to everyone that has helped me, whether you know you did or not, I thank you.
Karin
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
NO Way..
I wanna see.... so it is a he... cool.. you never can tell from the avatars people use... I get worried about offending someone not knowing who they really are..
So... where are the commercials.. I wanna see................. our very own silver screen star here on the DG... what a bunch of talent I never knew was here.. first Mrs. Stage Diva and now Mr. T.V Guy.... awesome..
Neat Karin
Thanks for the share... whaaaaaaaa.. cry:cry now I am wondering if he made it back to his momma.. man it is Bambi tears all over again.. you were so blessed to be able to get that close to Bambi in the wild... wow... and it is as if the opportunity just came to you... it sure turned out to be a special photo and now I have to go look at it again now that I know the story of this little guy...
I get deer here in my back yard too.. I need to try and photograph them some time... they are hard to approach without spooking them...
Thanks for the share... whaaaaaaaa.. cry:cry now I am wondering if he made it back to his momma.. man it is Bambi tears all over again.. you were so blessed to be able to get that close to Bambi in the wild... wow... and it is as if the opportunity just came to you... it sure turned out to be a special photo and now I have to go look at it again now that I know the story of this little guy...
I get deer here in my back yard too.. I need to try and photograph them some time... they are hard to approach without spooking them...
Kat
Yeah, I really was that close to him, no cropping of image involved. i could have pet him, but I didn't want to scare him, or get human scent on him in case that would freak the momma out, ya never know!
Karin
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
Thanks for the Vid
thanks for the vid,, going to watch it now.. I love this guy,, love his personality and humor too.. I have his books.. thanks for the share...
Nice
That was an awesome video.. really puts things into perspective.. thanks for the share and it was fitting with all that has transpired on the boards of late.
I would say...!
Gee, "thanks" for your criticism. I'm sure you meant it in a helpful way. These are all things I'll take into consideration.
No one has to fake praise for my images but I don't see why you used "cheap" and "haphazard" seems a little beyond constructive criticism. I know why I didn't make the finals round- but thanks for rubbing more dirt in it.
Stop tearing other photos down and get on with your life- this is supposed to be fun for everyone involved.
You know, Porter, I did say your photo was good enough to make the finals if you had just cropped it differently. That's not such a bad thing to say, is it?
I even took the time to download your photo, crop it, and re-host it on the Internet just so I could show you what I meant. Moreover, nothing I said attacked you as a person, or even your technical skill as a photographer. To the contrary, I said your main subject was "lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus".
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
All done!
My comments are now all posted in the gallery,
If anyone has questions or feels that I was not explanatory enough in my thoughts please let me know I will be glad to try and clarify. I hope I was able to help by contributing my thoughts about all of the images vs. just the ones that I put on the final list.
You know, Porter, I did say your photo was good enough to make the finals if you had just cropped it differently. That's not such a bad thing to say, is it?
I even took the time to download your photo, crop it, and re-host it on the Internet just so I could show you what I meant. Moreover, nothing I said attacked you as a person, or even your technical skill as a photographer. To the contrary, I said your main subject was "lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus".
Whether intentionally or not, the language and the tone you used came across as needlessly hurtful. Critique is great, but you don't have to actively make people feel bad in the process of doing so. Words like "cheap", "haphazard" and "random" have an extremely negative implication and it's hard to hear anything positive you may say once comments like that have been made.
Please let go of this. WINNING THE CHALLENGES IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. Come up with a new photograph for next time, post for feedback to see if people see something differently than you did, and have some fun. That's what this place is about.
[edited to remove needless sarcasm. Apologies for letting my usually measured tone get away from me]
Tone is tricky on the Internet. I'm certain we all know this, so let's try to keep it in mind.
Manbou, I appreciate your feedback on the photos. You have some good points and interesting opinions that could help photographers grow and try new things. Admittedly, your tone doesn't always read well and could move a bit more to the constructive end of the spectrum, but the content is good. I find it's helpful to lead with the positive and segue in to the critique. It makes things easier to swallow for those receiving the critique, which helps your message get through. Seems a waste to critique so thoroughly if people aren't going to listen, and though this depends largely on personality, it's a fairly successful tactic. A good place to start if your goal is to really be heard.
Everyone puts a lot of work into the images they enter here and so sensitivities can run high. We all wonder sometimes why our image didn't make it, what was "wrong" with it. We're human. And so are the judges. Feelings are always going to play a roll here—even in choice and preference—and I hope we all keep that in mind. Nothing is "wrong" with the images we create here. What may look incorrect to one person's photographic eye may have been an intentional experiment by the shooter. You never know. Assumptions can hinder all our learning here, and our experimenting. And our fun.
This is a place to play and try new things and learn what works or doesn't work for a general audience. And maybe your goal isn't to shoot for a general audience. That's okay, too.
For everyone: we have all asked for more critiques and feedback. Well, we just got a good dose. I would say be careful what you ask for, but I'm caffeinated. Instead I'll say we have a great community here, but the world outside isn't always going to be as accomodating. Critiques aren't always going to be nice. It's tough—we artists can be a sensitive lot—but it's your choice what you take out of any critique or compliment. Listen to it. Learn from it. Move on.
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The good part of this photo is the witch herself. She is wearing effective makeup, lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus, although it's hard to tell because she is so small in the overall picture. If Porter had shot a close-up portrait of the witch herself striking that pose, he (she?) might very well be in the finals right now. Imagine this crop as a much bigger picture:
Yes, indeed.
Just wanted to make sure everyone could read it.
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My SmugMug
Manbou - may I respectfully request that you remember that the photographers who took the images you're critiquing are no doubt READING this? Maybe it's not intentional, but I find your sometimes almost hostile tone makes it sound like you're talking in abstract about 3rd parties who will never see the comments instead of people who are right there "in the room" - I know if I were reading about myself, I would likely feel quite defensive not necessarily because of WHAT you're saying, but how you're saying it (and believe me, I have a VERY thick skin - my entire professional life as a singer is about putting myself out there to be subjectively judged, so it's not like I'm some delicate flower!)
Please note that I am NOT saying don't discuss and don't critique, but I think there are ways of doing that which can allow the person on the receiving end to feel they've had helpful input rather than been raked over the coals.
Your image didn't make it. Some of the others did. Life goes on, the sun will come up tomorrow, no babies or animals have been harmed and multiple opinions can coexist. Right????!!?? The ensuing discussion has been good (and once again demonstrates that dgrin is possibly the most civil place on the internet), but... can't we rustle up some sportsmanship and a bit of tact here?
Thanks.
Amen!
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
Gee, "thanks" for your criticism. I'm sure you meant it in a helpful way. These are all things I'll take into consideration.
No one has to fake praise for my images but I don't see why you used "cheap" and "haphazard" seems a little beyond constructive criticism. I know why I didn't make the finals round- but thanks for rubbing more dirt in it.
Stop tearing other photos down and get on with your life- this is supposed to be fun for everyone involved.
Uh ohhhhhhhhhh, you gots all the mamas on your tail now...run for cover....:hide:hide:hide:lynnsite Diva's in "the house"...
Seriously... I must agree.. there is a line between constructive criticism and then tearing others work down under a microscope in front of everyone which just appears to be anger because yours did not place... so let it go...:argue
So, does anyone else notice Shatch looks like Nicolas Cage? or at least the avatar he or she uses does...lol
can you tell I am bored.... I really need to get back to work...
Kat
Los Angeles dance photographer
Website: http://www.allenparseghian.com
Steven does his own commercials ya know....he is quite the star
I have to tell you I watched this poor little thing all morning, hoping and praying that his mother would come back for him, because I knew if she didn't, the coyotes that we hear almost nightly would surely find him. I called my brother who is a Forester in a nearby county forest preserve, to ask him what I should do, he said I needed to let nature take it's course, not what I wanted to hear. Long story short, sometime between 2:45 and 3:00 after I had just brought out some water in a dish for him, he was gone. I feel pretty sure that mom came back for him, and there were no sounds of coyotes that night, so I am hoping that it all turned out okay.
Sorry for the rambling......
Lastly, I just wanted to add that I too have had ups and downs in these challenges, but it is fun, and if it weren't for these challenges i probably would not be growing in my love for photography. I think the majority of the dgrinners here truly care and want to help others improve their skills. So to everyone that has helped me, whether you know you did or not, I thank you.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
I wanna see.... so it is a he... cool.. you never can tell from the avatars people use... I get worried about offending someone not knowing who they really are..
So... where are the commercials.. I wanna see................. our very own silver screen star here on the DG... what a bunch of talent I never knew was here.. first Mrs. Stage Diva and now Mr. T.V Guy.... awesome..
Kat
Thanks for the share... whaaaaaaaa..
I get deer here in my back yard too.. I need to try and photograph them some time... they are hard to approach without spooking them...
Kat
Yeah, I really was that close to him, no cropping of image involved. i could have pet him, but I didn't want to scare him, or get human scent on him in case that would freak the momma out, ya never know!
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2009/archives/3433
Please take a peek you will be glad you did....and WOW to this thread!
By the way, My AVATAR is ME!!! haha
thanks for the vid,, going to watch it now.. I love this guy,, love his personality and humor too.. I have his books.. thanks for the share...
oh, and nice to meet your avatar... lol
Kat
That was an awesome video.. really puts things into perspective.. thanks for the share and it was fitting with all that has transpired on the boards of late.
I would say...!
Kat
I even took the time to download your photo, crop it, and re-host it on the Internet just so I could show you what I meant. Moreover, nothing I said attacked you as a person, or even your technical skill as a photographer. To the contrary, I said your main subject was "lit well, exposed well, and apparently in good focus".
My comments are now all posted in the gallery,
If anyone has questions or feels that I was not explanatory enough in my thoughts please let me know I will be glad to try and clarify. I hope I was able to help by contributing my thoughts about all of the images vs. just the ones that I put on the final list.
Thanks!
Sean
Website: Tom Price Photography
Blog: Capturing Photons
Facebook: Tom Price Photography
Whether intentionally or not, the language and the tone you used came across as needlessly hurtful. Critique is great, but you don't have to actively make people feel bad in the process of doing so. Words like "cheap", "haphazard" and "random" have an extremely negative implication and it's hard to hear anything positive you may say once comments like that have been made.
Please let go of this. WINNING THE CHALLENGES IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. Come up with a new photograph for next time, post for feedback to see if people see something differently than you did, and have some fun. That's what this place is about.
[edited to remove needless sarcasm. Apologies for letting my usually measured tone get away from me]
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
Tone is tricky on the Internet. I'm certain we all know this, so let's try to keep it in mind.
Manbou, I appreciate your feedback on the photos. You have some good points and interesting opinions that could help photographers grow and try new things. Admittedly, your tone doesn't always read well and could move a bit more to the constructive end of the spectrum, but the content is good. I find it's helpful to lead with the positive and segue in to the critique. It makes things easier to swallow for those receiving the critique, which helps your message get through. Seems a waste to critique so thoroughly if people aren't going to listen, and though this depends largely on personality, it's a fairly successful tactic. A good place to start if your goal is to really be heard.
Everyone puts a lot of work into the images they enter here and so sensitivities can run high. We all wonder sometimes why our image didn't make it, what was "wrong" with it. We're human. And so are the judges. Feelings are always going to play a roll here—even in choice and preference—and I hope we all keep that in mind. Nothing is "wrong" with the images we create here. What may look incorrect to one person's photographic eye may have been an intentional experiment by the shooter. You never know. Assumptions can hinder all our learning here, and our experimenting. And our fun.
This is a place to play and try new things and learn what works or doesn't work for a general audience. And maybe your goal isn't to shoot for a general audience. That's okay, too.
For everyone: we have all asked for more critiques and feedback. Well, we just got a good dose. I would say be careful what you ask for, but I'm caffeinated.
Everyone, let's move on.
http://images.clipartof.com/small/36364-Clipart-Illustration-Of-Colorful-Butterflies-Frolicking-Above-Grass-In-Front-Of-A-Bursting-Sparkling-Blue-Sky.jpg
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