I like the 'Simon' analogy. He isn't tactful, but he usually speaks the truth and keeps American Idol from becoming a complete fawnfest. It would be preferable to have tactful criticism, but I'll take the honest, thoughtful tactless criticism over silence. I like the passion that this conversation has stirred up. I hope we can all keep it focused on the photos.
Dan in this case "the problem" (thats the quote i keep hearing so i thought i could use it too) is the judges are being disrepected, the system is getting mocked, and opinions are getting flung out there as if its gospel...i agreed with one or two statements from manbou, everything else was not of my opinion at all.... in fact i found most of them nothing but blind ignorance from someone with zero artistic leeway.
granted i said some poor words to manbou about his image, but i was not giving him a critique...i was just giving him my opinion to try and help him understand that it is possible that someone did not like his image....
i wont even get into the arrogance...i think that spoke for itself...
Dan and Halite, I certainly agree that things can get too politically correct hearts-and-butterflies-touchy-feely-everything-is-wonderful, and that is almost as bad as abusive name-calling. I like to look for a balance.
As a voice teacher, I'm known as unbelievably direct, sometimes to the point of bluntness. "She tells you like it is" is the feedback I usually get from students... and I wouldn't have it any other way. BUT (and here's the crux, and why I wrote what I did), it IS possible to do that with compassion and in a true spirit of support, rather than by pulling somebody down and humiliating them. The responses from my students indicate that it works for them!
I would venture to suggest that (among a few others in our midst), Greensquared has really mastered this skill - her clear and specific comments never pull punches and for sure avoid sugar-coating, but they also are never hurtful or seem to carry a sub-agenda. It's a gift which I respect enormously.
On that note, I think I've now said just about everything I have to on the subject (well, for now anyway )
"I would venture to suggest that (among a few others in our midst), Greensquared has really mastered this skill - her clear and specific comments never pull punches and for sure avoid sugar-coating, but they also are never hurtful or seem to carry a sub-agenda. It's a gift which I respect enormously."
You make one of my points very well Diva. It is a gift among a few. I also am a teacher. I coach individuals and groups daily, and have been doing so longer than I care to share. But most human beings have not been trained nor even exposed necessarily to tactful, compassionate, well formed constructive criticism. They just say what they think or they have learned to suppress what they think, or they say things to ingratiate themselves to others.
Look, I want to again make clear they I do not disagree with what you and others are saying. I just want to point out the positive in what transpired and possibly encourage others. It would certainly be wonderful if we could all provide constructive forthright criticism artistically, but I would rather get honest awkward feedback than inauthentic or no feedback. At least I think I would
I'll join you for that chocolate ice cream now.:D:D
"They just say what they think or they have learned to suppress what they think, or they say things to ingratiate themselves to others."
This may be the single most important, thought-provoking and absolutely true statement in this entire thread. I couldn't agree more.
As in most things, finding a balance is both the goal, and the hardest part to achieve. I submit that most of us get it wrong as often as we get it right, but maybe that's part of the process too?
Kat, I'm so broke my wife and I got married just for the rice.
However, a fun afternoon project is to create your own light tent using a cardboard box, old (clean!) t-shirts, and masking tape. Better than therapy and more useful, too.
Now Mark it took me some time to stop rolling on the floor and laughing at this one...!!! roflfor the rice? oh man you should have held out for a steak dinner or something..
so do share ...>> on the homemade light box... I gotta try that.. heck I don't even have an umbrella set up... it does sounds therapeutic.....:D
Now Mark it took me some time to stop rolling on the floor and laughing at this one...!!! roflfor the rice? oh man you should have held out for a steak dinner or something..
so do share ...>> on the homemade light box... I gotta try that.. heck I don't even have an umbrella set up... it does sounds therapeutic.....:D
Kat
Easy Peasy. Check here for the basics, modify as you see fit. There's no single "right way" to make a light tent. But total cost to me for one similar was my time and maybe $5 worth of materials. I believe you can also buy them from Adorama, etc. for starting at $30-$40 +
wrong, wrong, wrong... first, it has to be Blue Bell... there is no other ice cream.:D
Then... pick a flavor, they are all good. My favorite is Chocolate Covered Cherries
Easy Peasy. Check here for the basics, modify as you see fit. There's no single "right way" to make a light tent. But total cost to me for one similar was my time and maybe $5 worth of materials. I believe you can also buy them from Adorama, etc. for starting at $30-$40 +
too cool... thanks Mark.. I will have to put this together and try it... this would be awesome for the stock photography stuff..
I would venture to suggest that (among a few others in our midst), Greensquared has really mastered this skill - her clear and specific comments never pull punches and for sure avoid sugar-coating, but they also are never hurtful or seem to carry a sub-agenda. It's a gift which I respect enormously.
Diva, I just noticed this comment and wanted to say how very honored I am to receive it.
Just before Shay left our midst (for those who remember way back when in LPS), I sent him a PM saying almost exactly the same thing - that his thoughtful skill at constructive critique was something I truly admired. To receive such a compliment in return is truly an honor. I apologize for the critiques I was unable to complete. I have a tendency to take on way more than I can handle, and I hated to let you all down. I may need a bit of time off to regroup my life and deal with a few health issues, but I hope to return and be fully a part of the forum again!
wrong, wrong, wrong... first, it has to be Blue Bell... there is no other ice cream.:D
Then... pick a flavor, they are all good. My favorite is Chocolate Covered Cherries
Blue Bell? Blech! There ain't nothing like homemade...
Comments
granted i said some poor words to manbou about his image, but i was not giving him a critique...i was just giving him my opinion to try and help him understand that it is possible that someone did not like his image....
i wont even get into the arrogance...i think that spoke for itself...
As a voice teacher, I'm known as unbelievably direct, sometimes to the point of bluntness. "She tells you like it is" is the feedback I usually get from students... and I wouldn't have it any other way. BUT (and here's the crux, and why I wrote what I did), it IS possible to do that with compassion and in a true spirit of support, rather than by pulling somebody down and humiliating them. The responses from my students indicate that it works for them!
I would venture to suggest that (among a few others in our midst), Greensquared has really mastered this skill - her clear and specific comments never pull punches and for sure avoid sugar-coating, but they also are never hurtful or seem to carry a sub-agenda. It's a gift which I respect enormously.
On that note, I think I've now said just about everything I have to on the subject (well, for now anyway
And I still want some chocolate ice cream :patch
You make one of my points very well Diva. It is a gift among a few. I also am a teacher. I coach individuals and groups daily, and have been doing so longer than I care to share. But most human beings have not been trained nor even exposed necessarily to tactful, compassionate, well formed constructive criticism. They just say what they think or they have learned to suppress what they think, or they say things to ingratiate themselves to others.
Look, I want to again make clear they I do not disagree with what you and others are saying. I just want to point out the positive in what transpired and possibly encourage others. It would certainly be wonderful if we could all provide constructive forthright criticism artistically, but I would rather get honest awkward feedback than inauthentic or no feedback. At least I think I would
I'll join you for that chocolate ice cream now.:D:D
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This may be the single most important, thought-provoking and absolutely true statement in this entire thread. I couldn't agree more.
As in most things, finding a balance is both the goal, and the hardest part to achieve. I submit that most of us get it wrong as often as we get it right, but maybe that's part of the process too?
Good stuff, Dan.
Just joking Brian, really.... I thought what you said was funny...
Now Mark it took me some time to stop rolling on the floor and laughing at this one...!!!
so do share ...>> on the homemade light box... I gotta try that.. heck I don't even have an umbrella set up... it does sounds therapeutic.....:D
Kat
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I'm supposed to clean it?
Easy Peasy. Check here for the basics, modify as you see fit. There's no single "right way" to make a light tent. But total cost to me for one similar was my time and maybe $5 worth of materials. I believe you can also buy them from Adorama, etc. for starting at $30-$40 +
www.bf2015.smugmug.com
wrong, wrong, wrong... first, it has to be Blue Bell... there is no other ice cream.:D
Then... pick a flavor, they are all good. My favorite is Chocolate Covered Cherries
My SmugMug
too cool... thanks Mark.. I will have to put this together and try it... this would be awesome for the stock photography stuff..
Kat
Diva, I just noticed this comment and wanted to say how very honored I am to receive it.
Just before Shay left our midst (for those who remember way back when in LPS), I sent him a PM saying almost exactly the same thing - that his thoughtful skill at constructive critique was something I truly admired. To receive such a compliment in return is truly an honor. I apologize for the critiques I was unable to complete. I have a tendency to take on way more than I can handle, and I hated to let you all down. I may need a bit of time off to regroup my life and deal with a few health issues, but I hope to return and be fully a part of the forum again!
Blue Bell? Blech! There ain't nothing like homemade...
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#2 - BLUE BELL
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