DSS #25 Foul or Fair - Unofficial Feedback Thread

hawkeye978 · May 18, 2009

Here is the official gallery to give your C&C for DSS#25

Gallery Found Here

This unofficial feedback thread is a catch-all of sorts, lets make it happen:thumb

Anyway, Lets get #25 Feedback started!!

This thread is:

a place to post a list of your top ten favorites. (be heard, and let everyone know what images moved you.)
a place to post your "the making of my image"
a place to ask someone "how did they do that?"(for us all to see:D )

Feedback is an important part of the photographic process. While those selected as finalists get feedback from the judges and those who vote, others are never quite sure where they stand. So share your thoughts both in this thread and with comments in the actual gallery. Constructive criticism should always be welcome.

As pointed out last month it's easy to post thumbnails (with help from our Moderator).

With the image selected in the gallery, copy its URL from your browser, add "-Th.jpg" to the end, delete the jumble of numbers and letters preceding the hashtag (#), change "gallery" to "photos" and that's it.

Example

Change this url

http://challenges.smugmug.com/gallery/7821877_VUfQz#508585564_r5YQB

To this

http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/508585564_r5YQB-Th.jpg[/URL]

Happy Feedbacking :scratch

michswiss · May 18, 2009

Congrats and good luck to all the entrants. Here are my selections in gallery order. Apparently, I like foul more than fair! :hang

ps, I gotta say, creating the thumbnails is a lot of cutting and pasting.

Velvet-Art · May 18, 2009

Well, what a tough challenge this was for me, I had blank-mind-itus for most of it, couldnt come up with anything, not even the scratch of an idea until I was awoke @7 am by the rain beating on the window, looked out the blinds and a glimmer of an idea hit me. I dont think my entry is strong, but I'd rather try anything than just give up.

Anyway, here's my top 10 in gallery order;

Tim

manbou · May 18, 2009

DSS #25: I didn't make the finals; please give me feedback!
Well, I got shut out of the finals, so anyone want to give me some feedback on why?

Here's my entry, "Fathoms Below":

I think this is a pretty cool photo, and a photographer friend of mine agreed, so I had high hopes for this one. Obviously I'm biased, but frankly I think it's better than some of the finalist selections. The only reason I can come up with for why it didn't get picked is that I named it "Fathoms Below" instead of something like "Fair Lady, Foul Fish" to play up the contest theme more.

So, what am I missing? Tell me why this didn't make the cut.

This was my first contest, and I want to do better next time. Thanks.

Tango · May 18, 2009

manbou wrote:

Well, I got shut out of the finals, so anyone want to give me some feedback on why?

Here's my entry, "Fathoms Below":

I think this is a pretty cool photo, and a photographer friend of mine agreed, so I had high hopes for this one. Obviously I'm biased, but frankly I think it's better than some of the finalist selections. The only reason I can come up with for why it didn't get picked is that I named it "Fathoms Below" instead of something like "Fair Lady, Foul Fish" to play up the contest theme more.

So, what am I missing? Tell me why this didn't make the cut. This was my first contest, and I want to do better next time. Thanks.

MAYBE THIS WILL HELP...JOIN MY FIGHT AGAINTS THE BLIND JUDGES!
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=122160

pyroPrints.com · May 18, 2009

manbou wrote:

Well, I got shut out of the finals, so anyone want to give me some feedback on why?

So, what am I missing? Tell me why this didn't make the cut. This was my first contest, and I want to do better next time. Thanks.

Listen man, that's just how it goes sometimes. I'm sure we've all felt that way at least once (hell, i'm in the same boat as you this round), but you keep shooting and trying to get better.

If you want honest feedback on your photo: it's not bad, but it's also not amazing. Of course, that's roughly how I feel about my photo this round as well. So in closing, keep on truckin'. You'll get it =c)

manbou · May 18, 2009

pyroPrints.com wrote:

If you want honest feedback on your photo: it's not bad, but it's also not amazing.

Oh, sure. I'm not saying it's the world's greatest photo. Just good enough to make the finals of this contest. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" >

I am not saying my photo is good and everyone else's isn't. In my opinion, "Enchanted" is the best photo this round, and I think Shatch will deservedly win. But I just don't see what is so special about some of the other finalist photos. In fact some of them have specific flaws that I had thought would keep them from reaching the finals. (I could single out examples, but I won't. Unless you really twist my arm.)

I guess it really is a crap shoot after all.<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJUSTIN%7E1.WEI%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style>

silversx80 · May 18, 2009

My take is that it's entirely subjective judging (other than meeting the requirements of the challenge). Also remember, sometimes the "perfect" shot isn't.

Anyway, the last round was my first submission. I figured that as long as I went into it with the intention of giving my best, I'd still win because I expanded my knowledge and went outside of my comfort zone.

Tango · May 18, 2009

manbou wrote:

Oh, sure. I'm not saying it's the world's greatest photo. Just good enough to make the finals of this contest. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="" >

I am not saying my photo is good and everyone else's isn't. In my opinion, "Enchanted" is the best photo this round, and I think Shatch will deservedly win. But I just don't see what is so special about some of the other finalist photos. In fact some of them have specific flaws that I had thought would keep them from reaching the finals. (I could single out examples, but I won't. Unless you really twist my arm.)

I guess it really is a crap shoot after all.<LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJUSTIN%7E1.WEI%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List> <STYLE> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} b\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </STYLE><STYLE>  </STYLE>

Humor us... maybe give us specifics? which do you refer too?

I really am paying attention since i didnt vote for Shatch this round, im surely an idiot and could use your help....

JAG · May 18, 2009

:lurk

cjmchch · May 18, 2009

manbou wrote:

Well, I got shut out of the finals, so anyone want to give me some feedback on why?

Here's my entry, "Fathoms Below":

I think this is a pretty cool photo, and a photographer friend of mine agreed, so I had high hopes for this one. Obviously I'm biased, but frankly I think it's better than some of the finalist selections. The only reason I can come up with for why it didn't get picked is that I named it "Fathoms Below" instead of something like "Fair Lady, Foul Fish" to play up the contest theme more.

So, what am I missing? Tell me why this didn't make the cut. This was my first contest, and I want to do better next time. Thanks.

Realistically there are only two people who can answer you honestly so maybe you could pm them and ask them to critique your photo. In their eyes it may be very good, but they obvioulsy prefer others for whatever reason.

I'd be interested to know if your photographer friend critiqued your photo in comparison to every other image presented here or whether it was a blind critique on the image itself?

If you're here to compete get used to three things.......boxing, wrestling and honesty. Your photography will come out the other end all the better for being exposed to it from within this room, and trust me, every single person here is subjected to it.

DeuceFour · May 18, 2009

Oh Me too!!! :lurk

Katmitchell · May 18, 2009

Here Here...
I agree with Silver and cjmchch..

The best thing you can do in any art is develop thick skin.. I learn more from the critiques than anything else, without the scrutiny then the photography skills would never grow...

so, with that said and honesty being our best friend... here is my critique on why I would not have voted your photo in personally..

First,, it is well shot... and you did a great job on the color and I like that shadow descending straight down connecting the subjects, so your photographer friend has a point as far as technique goes.. however, as far as the "theme" goes it does not fit at all... (your "idea" for it fits yes)........... but you did not pull that off..

The girl is not fair looking at all.. she looks like she was shot in comical form.
"look" at the expression on her face..... her mouth is turned down and you blew her skin completely out with harsh white light and her hair comes nowhere near fair and gorgeous because it is not even styled, it is flat and stringy and harsh looking.. her neck is stout and bulging and the outfit she is dressed in is casual and plain, not fair and it does not contrast well with the water at all.

you captured the fish nicely and I love the way it blends with the water, but I don't think foul when I look at a pretty fish. Plus your subject takes no notice of the fish, she is looking the other way, it looks as if you captured someone on film bored and goofy looking up at lights..

I hope this helps.. you said you wanted honesty and there it is....
however, this is just my two cents.. keep shooting and keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with the judges.... there is simply variety of judges... and each judge judges differently , some judge on how the photo impacts them, some judge on pure theme, and others still judge on overall technique, etc.... I personally "don't believe in bad judges" as they are being honest from their (personal perspective).

That's what makes it hard, finding a balance in the way you shoot to make is appeasing as possible to all... and keep in mind as a photographer, your photo art will be judged in the same way out in the real world too, some will love it and others will hate it, even if it is a great photo.. that's the nature of art...

I mean in the last round the judges put mine in the top selection and still, it only managed to garner 2 votes from this crowd... that's just the way it is.. it makes me want to shoot again and again.. so get out there and get involved in the next round.. it is plain to see you have skill, so keep sharing it, and helping us learn from your critiques on our stuff in return...

I hope I helped..

Kind Regards,

Kat

Porter · May 18, 2009

Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained
It's not easy being green, I mean not being chosen for the finalist round. But it happens to everybody at one time or another. My consolation prize is that my entry is part of a larger project that I'm working on and not making the finalist group won't take away the satisfaction that I got from successfully creating my shot. I entered my image, "No Rest for the Wicked" in this Round- but really the shot has been on my schedule for a few weeks and just happened to fit into the theme. My image didn't make anyone's top ten list but that doesn't mean I'm pulling it from my book.

If you're here just for winning, you'll be disappointed- no matter how good you are. You've got to find another reason for entering contests.

That being said, I do wish that the images could be posted without usernames- to be sure everyone got a fair shake ya know- even people who don't post on message boards and aren't well known. There'd be no doubt that there was any bias based on who is friend with who.

"Fathoms Below" was an interesting image, I liked her cute expression.

shatch · May 18, 2009

AaronNelson wrote:

Humor us... maybe give us specifics? which do you refer too?

I really am paying attention since i didnt vote for Shatch this round, im surely an idiot and could use your help....

:cry
And I thought you were my friend...

D

shatch · May 18, 2009

I've been gone from DGRIN since about last October (ugly travel schedule). But when I was participating in every contest prior to that, I learned a lot. I remember the first year of contests, I used to look at the top banner photos and dream of having one show up there. I went for months thinking my entries were good enough to make the cut, but they didn't. I would study the winners and other blogs, and keep shooting. Finally, I remember the day when I finally had a photo make it to the top. That was a happy day. But even after that, I have had many photos not make the cut. Art is subjective. But with an open mind for learning and some tough skin, you will learn a lot from the amazing participants of this great site. One other tool to consider is the "Whipping Post". But be warned, the critiques are very deep and thorough...and subjective. But open up and you will grow by leaps and bounds.

Best wishes and keep shooting!

michswiss · May 19, 2009

I haven't made it through to a finals round yet either. I'm quite proud of many of the shots I put forward, other times I give myself a headslap for the stupidity of the submission. I've come to think that my style of photography won't lend itself well to these sort of competitions. I'm no master of PP and do very little editing.

But does this stop me? Duh, I'm a glutton for punishment and this forum is MUCH better (IMHO) than the Whipping Post for measuring personal progress. The Themes force me to go out into the streets with an objective I might not otherwise have looked for and that by itself helps me improve.

I'm on a short trip without my photo library. I'm going to be interested in thoughts and alternative colouring to my shot. I don't think I was courageous or respectful enough to show the viewer the reality of the subject.

Now to go find a Prism for #26...

manbou · May 19, 2009

AaronNelson wrote:

Humor us... maybe give us specifics? which do you refer too?

I really am paying attention since i didnt vote for Shatch this round, im surely an idiot and could use your help....

Well, since you asked... I suppose this won't make me any friends, but surely I'm not the only one who's supposed to have a thick skin about criticism, right? So here we go:

Curious Camel – Specious. There is nothing really wrong with this photo, but nothing particularly interesting, unusual, or compelling about it, either. Nor is it outstanding on a technical level. There's good detail in the hair, but the overall image (as viewed on my monitor) seems flat, dull, and a bit underexposed, with a lack of contrast between shadows and highlights.

Fashiznitsngrins - You Dirty Rat! Yes, it's interesting, funny, and well-exposed. But the hat, cigar, and smoke, even if they were actually part of the original photograph, certainly look like they were added in post-processing. The effect is to make the image look like a Fark.com Photoshop contest entry, not an actual photograph.

cmorganphotography - Flower Power. This is a very nice-looking photo with an interesting mix of colors, a nice pose by the model, a nice visual pun between the flowers surrounding her and the flower pattern on her blouse, and an appropriately light and airy feeling overall. The photo is ruined, however, by an uneven, overbearing white vignette that destroys the beautiful and delicate effect of the underlying image.

dlplumer - Who Is The Fairest Of Them All. I like the silhouette of the bird, but the entire empty left side of the photo severely weakens the photo's overall composition. This would be a much better photo if it were cropped into a vertical (portrait) format around the silhouette.

JAG - Year Old Minced Garlic. This is an interesting idea for a photo, executed with good composition and exposure. The jar of garlic (and the woman's reaction to it) is the subject. Yet the garlic is out of focus, and instead our eyes are drawn to the bottles on the inside of the refrigerator door, which are in perfect focus.

In my opinion, the really outstanding photos among the finalists include the following:

shatch - Enchanted
Halite - Rain, Rain Go Away!
jeffmeyers - Two Fair Fowl

Finally, I would like to say that I do have a thick skin. I'm not banging my fists on the table and crying about not making the cut. I'm merely curious about how and why the selections were made. Unless we are meant to treat these challenges as a completely random lottery, surely that is a valid subject for discussion.

Tango · May 19, 2009

shatch wrote:

:cry
And I thought you were my friend...

D

what can i say,

(honestly, i thought your entry was spectacular! far better than i could ever attempt with all that fancy wizardry)

Tango · May 19, 2009

manbou wrote:

Well, since you asked... I suppose this won't make me any friends, but surely I'm not the only one who's supposed to have a thick skin about criticism, right? So here we go:

Curious Camel – Specious. There is nothing really wrong with this photo, but nothing particularly interesting, unusual, or compelling about it, either. Nor is it outstanding on a technical level. There's good detail in the hair, but the overall image (as viewed on my monitor) seems flat, dull, and a bit underexposed, with a lack of contrast between shadows and highlights.

Fashiznitsngrins - You Dirty Rat! Yes, it's interesting, funny, and well-exposed. But the hat, cigar, and smoke, even if they were actually part of the original photograph, certainly look like they were added in post-processing. The effect is to make the image look like a Fark.com Photoshop contest entry, not an actual photograph.

cmorganphotography - Flower Power. This is a very nice-looking photo with an interesting mix of colors, a nice pose by the model, a nice visual pun between the flowers surrounding her and the flower pattern on her blouse, and an appropriately light and airy feeling overall. The photo is ruined, however, by an uneven, overbearing white vignette that destroys the beautiful and delicate effect of the underlying image.

dlplumer - Who Is The Fairest Of Them All. I like the silhouette of the bird, but the entire empty left side of the photo severely weakens the photo's overall composition. This would be a much better photo if it were cropped into a vertical (portrait) format around the silhouette.

JAG - Year Old Minced Garlic. This is an interesting idea for a photo, executed with good composition and exposure. The jar of garlic (and the woman's reaction to it) is the subject. Yet the garlic is out of focus, and instead our eyes are drawn to the bottles on the inside of the refrigerator door, which are in perfect focus.

In my opinion, the really outstanding photos among the finalists include the following:

shatch - Enchanted
Halite - Rain, Rain Go Away!
jeffmeyers - Two Fair Fowl

Finally, I would like to say that I do have a thick skin. I'm not banging my fists on the table and crying about not making the cut. I'm merely curious about how and why the selections were made. Unless we are meant to treat these challenges as a completely random lottery, surely that is a valid subject for discussion.

i dont think you need to worry about making friends im sure you will do a fine job at it.

now you must understand that i cannot grasp why you seem to rip apart many entries but hold yours in such great regard... i simply hated it, the expression ruined the whole thing from my pov.... i just dont get it...does it smell bad where she is standing? or is she sitting? is she scared? or lost..is she suppose to be underwater? or just against a big aquarium window? maybe if you poured a bucket of water on her and got that expression then i might see some point to it....i just dont get it.... so you see, many people see things differently and you must allow yourself to be respectful of the judges choices no matter how perfect you think you are....

good luck, peace

dlplumer · May 19, 2009

dlplumer - Who Is The Fairest Of Them All. I like the silhouette of the bird, but the entire empty left side of the photo severely weakens the photo's overall composition. This would be a much better photo if it were cropped into a vertical (portrait) format around the silhouette.

Thanks manbou. How's this:

JAG · May 19, 2009

manbou "JAG - Year Old Minced Garlic. This is an interesting idea for a photo, executed with good composition and exposure. The jar of garlic (and the woman's reaction to it) is the subject. Yet the garlic is out of focus, and instead our eyes are drawn to the bottles on the inside of the refrigerator door, which are in perfect focus."

Now this is what I love so much about this group! We all can have different interpretations of the same picture. I did realize that the garlic was OOF as my depth of field was very difficult to obtain since I had to put the camera on the shelf of the fridge then set the timer and grab the garlic while freezing an expression on my face(I am not very blessed with coordination

).

However after doing number of shots of this concept, (and letting all the cold out of the frig...

), I kept coming back to this shot as the foulness of the aroma was over powering and it was the expression that the whole thing for me. I took a gamble with the judges as I rather liked the oof of the garlic. I felt it led to a certain depth of the picture...but that is my opinion. I do appreciate your opinion too and can understand it. As for your photo. Although it made for an interesting photo...I didn't make a strong connection to the theme either because of the facial expression she gave. I do hope you keep trying the challenges though!

I have been doing the dss since #1 and have only won once. And out of 25 entries...this is only my 4th one to make it to the finals. Not even 25%. I have learned tons and I have had a couple entries that not only got a ton of positive feedback during C&C, but didn't make the cut with the judges...for whatever reason. That is when I go to the whipping post to really bring me back to earth. But its all ok. Cause I am having a blast doing these "CHALLENGES". They are ment to challenge us...not so much compete. The prizes and praises are just gravy to the satisfaction of composing a piece of art that satifies ourselves!

Hey Dan! I like your original minimulist space better!!!

sherstone · May 19, 2009

JAG wrote:

Hey Dan! I like your original minimulist space better!!!

Me too!

EDIT: hmmm oh wait maybe I misinterpreted this one wrong -- I actually mean that I like your "original" version better than the modified crop. (hope that makes more sense)

Just a quick note:

Yes I am once again one of the "blind" judges this round and I am actually motivated to critique each and every image this last round including the ones that I chose in the end. Please bear with me though, as I have run out of time today and plan on starting and hopefully completing my comments on the images tomorrow.

I will say this though each of us interprets the themes differently. If an image "speaks" to me in some way and it fits my personal version of the themes then ding ding ding - it gets my attention. There are several images that I chose that I can see glaringly obvious flaws in them (technically) but this was superseded by how an image made me feel and how well I felt it "fit" into my own interpretation of themes. Does this mean I am right... FAR from it its just my own little opinion that is all.

So far this thread has been an interesting read

Sean.

Katmitchell · May 19, 2009

What are you thinking Dan
No way.. I have to disagree on this one... I liked the original composition better..
yes, too much negative space can be bad, but you used it right and the space is full of beautiful bokeh coloration that balanced it well, not to mention I liked the way that it gave us the feeling of the bird entering into a frame of space.. two made my top for this vote and this was one of them... put it back Dan..put it back>> your gonna lead me to drinking already..:lynnsite:slosh

Kat

Bad cropped birdie!!!

dlplumer wrote:

dlplumer - Who Is The Fairest Of Them All. I like the silhouette of the bird, but the entire empty left side of the photo severely weakens the photo's overall composition. This would be a much better photo if it were cropped into a vertical (portrait) format around the silhouette.

Thanks manbou. How's this:

Tentacion · May 19, 2009

Totally agree with the interesting read....Thanks Manbou for stirring up things, and getting the intellectual juices flowing....Sometimes it is nice to read the banter, and see how everyone's visual perceptions vary.

I'm glad you didn't say anything about my photo

....but I will say, that even if it hadn't been chosen here, I am very proud to say that it has been selected "Editor's Pick" at another site..

Ahhhhhh, today is a good day to go gently into the night....

:ivar

.

Peace All, have a great one, be back in a few days to check in...lol
Donna P.

sherstone · May 19, 2009

Katmitchell wrote:

No way.. I have to disagree on this one... I liked the original composition better..

That is what I thought I was saying -- I think maybe I misinterpreted it.
I updated my original post to clarify what I mean.

manbou · May 19, 2009

dlplumer wrote:

Thanks manbou. How's this:

That's the basic idea, although I'd tweak it just a bit differently:

Sometimes balancing out an object on one side with negative space on the other side is a good idea. But in this photo, the negative space formed between the silhouette and the frame of the picture is interesting and engaging. When you make the frame really wide, the tension between the silhouette and the frame is lost, and little is gained.

Your crop of the original image, above, was still too tall and wide to create this tension between border and subject. (And you actually cropped out some of the silhouette on the right side, making the problem even worse!) That may be why no one liked your crop better than the original; in some ways, it was the "worst of both worlds".

Thanks for responding well to criticism and not flipping out!

Katmitchell · May 19, 2009

No Sean
I was not disagreeing with "you"........ I was disagreeing with the critique that Manbou gave it and then the altered post that Dan posted...

Kat

manbou · May 19, 2009

Tentacion wrote:

Totally agree with the interesting read....Thanks Manbou for stirring up things, and getting the intellectual juices flowing....Sometimes it is nice to read the banter, and see how everyone's visual perceptions vary.

Thank you. Also, please note that I said something positive about every single photo I criticized, not to be "nice", but to be accurate. There IS something good about all these photos. However, I also found things to criticize about some of them, and I did so, in as constructive, specifc, technical, and impersonal a way as I possibly could. (For example, I didn't make any simplistic, unhelpful comments like "I hated it!")

It always amuses me when people talk a good game about criticism being a way to learn and grow, but then get outraged when someone actually dares to provide some of it. Thankfully, that hypocritical and immature attitude seems to be almost completely absent here at Dgrin.

JAG · May 19, 2009

Manbou your crop is nice. I like that too. But I still think that the minimalist aproach that Dan took in his original post works also with this image. I like it because 1...the space gives a place for the bird to go...as if it was walking into the frame. 2....the colors of the background are rather calming effect and the bokeh is wonderful, which actually makes the viewer have an emotion when veiwing the siloette. 3...the picture in a whole gives the impression of evening and perhaps the fowl is walking back home to the nest after whatever a fowl does for the day. Giving a story in the picture. Your version makes it a great siloette of a fowl...yet lacks the story of why is it so dark? Now again...this is my opinion...but still as valid as I like your version too, but it takes the story away.

VisualXpressions · May 19, 2009

manbou wrote:

Well, I got shut out of the finals, so anyone want to give me some feedback on why?

Here's my entry, "Fathoms Below":

I think this is a pretty cool photo, and a photographer friend of mine agreed, so I had high hopes for this one. Obviously I'm biased, but frankly I think it's better than some of the finalist selections. The only reason I can come up with for why it didn't get picked is that I named it "Fathoms Below" instead of something like "Fair Lady, Foul Fish" to play up the contest theme more.

So, what am I missing? Tell me why this didn't make the cut. This was my first contest, and I want to do better next time. Thanks.

I wasn't impressed with the shot... I am guessing the subject is supposed to look like she is under water... It does not, it looks like she is standing in front of an aquarium with an out of focus fish swimming above her head... The look on her face looks contrived or forced... I'm not convinced it speaks to the title of being stuck fathoms below... I don't really see how the shot speaks to the theme at all?

Any way... my 2 cents for what it's worth... There isn't any one thing anybody can tell you to do in order to win or make the finals in these challenges... I will say this, the times I have won or made the finals were with themes I had a vision for and I new what I wanted to shoot and how I wanted it to look, and I worked toward that end result... Shots of opportunity I might take during the contest period that might have a connection to the theme rarely got a nod...

Have fun! and keep shooting...

Winston

DSS #25 Foul or Fair - Unofficial Feedback Thread

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