Long ago, Harry hosted a Challenge, For The Birds. It was clear as day in his mind that he wanted the challenge to be about bird photography for crying out loud. And bird photography is a difficult discipline, one that requires a lot of dedication. I think it's even possible that we've had a dgrin member die in the pursuit of bird pictures. For real.
So, wise guy that I am, I went to the local natural history museum and took a picture of a stuffed dodo or Carolina parakeet or some such and entered it. I thought it was clever, but in retrospect, I think Harry thought that I didn't really respect what he was up to.
I searched a bit, but couldn't find the post, so my memory will have to do.
I wanted to recall this incident by way of explaining the blunt critique I've been giving to the challenge entries. I love this type of photography and really want people to "get it". It's very hard and sometimes even emotionally challenging. It can require getting close to strangers who are in the midst of strong emotions. That's not polite. It can even get you in trouble. (Believe me, I've been there.)
So, please, don't take me too personally. They call this a "Challenge" and I want to see people challenge themselves on this one particularly.
Let me carry this a bit further - Part of the problem with this challenge is that it is inaccurately named and oddly defined - sorry, but...
IF this is a "photo journalism" challenge, it should NOT be limited to black and white - very, very little modern photo journalism is done in black and white. And IF it is a photo journalism challenge the entries should be examples of photo journalism - photographs as journalism, that is, photographs that either illustrate a news story, or themselves tell stories. These might be photos of fires, political rallies, tragedies, celebrations of public interest, funerals of public interest. They might be photos from picture stories. As Rutt as noted - and I understand his frustration - news photos are, overwhelmingly, photos of PEOPLE - unposed people. Yes, there are photos of collapsed buildings in Haiti, and traffic jams in where ever - but it is PEOPLE who make news. And photo journalism is about NEWS. Look at Rutt's photos in the gallery of the Haitian call center.
Now, as the challenge is set up, it is called Photo Journalism, yet it includes Street Photography - which is NOT photo journalism, and Documentary Photography - which can cross boundaries with photo journalism. In fact, Documentary Photography is, at its core, long-form photo journalism with much less formalism; i.e., it often includes posed photos.
Anyway, I'd suggest that the challenge be recalibrated: If it's a BLACK AND WHITE CANDIDS challenge, let's call it that. But if it's a photo journalism challenge, let's go back to the drawing board.
And whatever it is, let's focus on the people and have the challenge be really challenging.
Long ago, Harry hosted a Challenge, For The Birds. It was clear as day in his mind that he wanted the challenge to be about bird photography for crying out loud. And bird photography is a difficult discipline, one that requires a lot of dedication. I think it's even possible that we've had a dgrin member die in the pursuit of bird pictures. For real.
So, wise guy that I am, I went to the local natural history museum and took a picture of a stuffed dodo or Carolina parakeet or some such and entered it. I thought it was clever, but in retrospect, I think Harry thought that I didn't really respect what he was up to.
I searched a bit, but couldn't find the post, so my memory will have to do.
I wanted to recall this incident by way of explaining the blunt critique I've been giving to the challenge entries. I love this type of photography and really want people to "get it". It's very hard and sometimes even emotionally challenging. It can require getting close to strangers who are in the midst of strong emotions. That's not polite. It can even get you in trouble. (Believe me, I've been there.)
So, please, don't take me too personally. They call this a "Challenge" and I want to see people challenge themselves on this one particularly.
Rutt, I think your sharing a great deal of experiance and you're teaching many that have not been exposed to this type of photography. Dont worry about if someone takes it personal because if it wasn't you that offended them it wouldnt be long before they were offended by someone else here on Dgrin....so in otherwords, people that get offended dont seem to stick around much anyway.... those that take C&C and find something from it to grow will be here a long time....right?
I see what your saying about Harry's challenge, your saying get out and try right?
Alex, good thing your not the judge!....:D we better see lots of individual C&C anyway.
I can see PJ as a serious genre and I respect it. But I dont have a single clue of what's good or what not except what~and~how I perceive the image under my own opinion.
So, Alex or Anyone pls tell me if I'm wrong;
Imo, "PJ photography is a photo that accompanies a news story/article and should provoke an emotion."
So how can any photo we capture in the attempt to tell a story "NOT" be worthy of pj photography? To me it seems to be only a matter of skill in doing it, and also how one reads it. I dont see how it "can't" fit the theme or not....
Let me carry this a bit further - Part of the problem with this challenge is that it is inaccurately named and oddly defined - sorry, but...
IF this is a "photo journalism" challenge, it should NOT be limited to black and white - very, very little modern photo journalism is done in black and white. And IF it is a photo journalism challenge the entries should be examples of photo journalism - photographs as journalism, that is, photographs that either illustrate a news story, or themselves tell stories. These might be photos of fires, political rallies, tragedies, celebrations of public interest, funerals of public interest. They might be photos from picture stories. As Rutt as noted - and I understand his frustration - news photos are, overwhelmingly, photos of PEOPLE - unposed people. Yes, there are photos of collapsed buildings in Haiti, and traffic jams in where ever - but it is PEOPLE who make news. And photo journalism is about NEWS. Look at Rutt's photos in the gallery of the Haitian call center.
Now, as the challenge is set up, it is called Photo Journalism, yet it includes Street Photography - which is NOT photo journalism, and Documentary Photography - which can cross boundaries with photo journalism. In fact, Documentary Photography is, at its core, long-form photo journalism with much less formalism; i.e., it often includes posed photos.
Anyway, I'd suggest that the challenge be recalibrated: If it's a BLACK AND WHITE CANDIDS challenge, let's call it that. But if it's a photo journalism challenge, let's go back to the drawing board.
And whatever it is, let's focus on the people and have the challenge be really challenging.
Darn B.D.
If they change it to strictly black and white PJ, I will have to remove my "Gentrification" shot (street)! and back to the drawing board:)
it is a B&W challenge, Im not sure why you would enter something other than...
forget the b&w part of my comment. just if they change it to purely PJ I will remove it as it's more "street/documentary" than PJ--it doesn't have people in it. That's what I meant. But I do think it definately fits the Street/docu portion.
It is quite a broad category which is where the confusion likely comes into play. As is we've had some pretty healthy discussion in the PJ/street forum as to what constitutes street/pj.
Hope I didn't just add to the confusion.
forget the b&w part of my comment. just if they change it to purely PJ I will remove it as it's more "street/documentary" than PJ--it doesn't have people in it. That's what I meant. But I do think it definately fits the Street/docu portion.
It is quite a broad category which is where the confusion likely comes into play. As is we've had some pretty healthy discussion in the PJ/street forum as to what constitutes street/pj.
Hope I didn't just add to the confusion.
I think your entry is very theme worthy Liz. As for the guide lines for the challenge changing after being posted, (B&W to color), I don't see that happening. This challenge is no different then a lot of the others. It gets posted and people go through the pondering stage and read more into it then whats meant to. Or twist the meaning of the guidelines so that there entry fits. Or.......it goes on and on. I have that same struggle as everyone else with some of the challenges.
The bottom line is anticipating what the two judges interpretations are going to be. I definitely wouldn't want to be judging this round for my lack of experience in this genre.
The fact that this is a B&W challenge certainly does not mean PJ should always be B&W. We have B&W challenges every so often here. The goal is to challenge people on two levels: a new type of photography (for some) and a specific type of processing. They're just paired together this round.
Having started my career on a news copy desk, I stand by my earlier comment in this thread, which doesn't seem to be far off from your definition, B.D.
PJ tends to tell a story of some place, time, event, or person, and can elicit some emotional response from your viewer.
Do people make photos more interesting? Yes. But does including people automatically make it PJ? No.
As with every challenge, much depends upon judges' interpretation. The straight PJ shooters among us may disagree, but the main goal of these challenges is to encourage people to learn. If everyone participating comes out of this challenge having learned something more about PJ, it will have been a successful challenge.
Interesting recent comments. For me its always what my brain receives when my eyes read something. I for some reason seem to associate "PJ" with "Street," when the theme is very clearly only PJ. So..... Mine and very many others that I see in there are, imo, most definitely more what I would call Street, not at all PJ, (even yours imo BD!). Anyway, as I'm not going to be at any newsworthy events in before the deadline, I'll just leave mine there.... At least I had another afternoon of fun going out to hunt for it..
If everyone participating comes out of this challenge having learned something more about PJ, it will have been a successful challenge.
Yes, I think this is perfect. But I'm hoping that in this particular case, it takes many photographers and viewers way outside their emotional comfort zones.
Interesting recent comments. For me its always what my brain receives when my eyes read something. I for some reason seem to associate "PJ" with "Street," when the theme is very clearly only PJ. So..... Mine and very many others that I see in there are, imo, most definitely more what I would call Street, not at all PJ, (even yours imo BD!). Anyway, as I'm not going to be at any newsworthy events in before the deadline, I'll just leave mine there.... At least I had another afternoon of fun going out to hunt for it..
The category is street black and white--but the description right underneath it said the following:
"PJ, street, candid, whatever your name for it, your goal is to capture a scene as you find it. Give your viewers a sense of place, or a moment, or an unexpected discovery. Nothing staged, nothing cloned, just you, your camera, and your feet pounding the pavement. All shots must be in black and white, without toning."
FWIW.
The fact that this is a B&W challenge certainly does not mean PJ should always be B&W. We have B&W challenges every so often here. The goal is to challenge people on two levels: a new type of photography (for some) and a specific type of processing. They're just paired together this round.
Having started my career on a news copy desk, I stand by my earlier comment in this thread, which doesn't seem to be far off from your definition, B.D.
Do people make photos more interesting? Yes. But does including people automatically make it PJ? No.
As with every challenge, much depends upon judges' interpretation. The straight PJ shooters among us may disagree, but the main goal of these challenges is to encourage people to learn. If everyone participating comes out of this challenge having learned something more about PJ, it will have been a successful challenge.
OK. I know I am a newby and probably don't "understand" the ins and outs of PJ, but would somebody take a quick look at the photo I have posted for the challenge and tell me why or why not it doesn't fit into this challenge and/or PJ style photography. Photo and title(since there is no underlying stories for any of these photos) should say it all. C&C greatly appreciated and encouraged!!!!!
OK. I know I am a newby and probably don't "understand" the ins and outs of PJ, but would somebody take a quick look at the photo I have posted for the challenge and tell me why or why not it doesn't fit into this challenge and/or PJ style photography. Photo and title(since there is no underlying stories for any of these photos) should say it all. C&C greatly appreciated and encouraged!!!!!
looks acceptable to me.... I read a story from it.... so, good luck fwiw!
When I first read this challenge, I took it to mean the photo had to be shot in black and white, not color turned black and white.........anyway, while shooting I noticed my blacks look a little fuzzy........any suggestions? I have actually gotten quite lazy and always shoot color, then switch. Had I done that I don't think I would have a problem. Anyway, advise would be appreciated.
Stephanie
Stephanie
Inspiration is everywhere you look....... Beauty is in the smallest details.......... Love is a blessing.............................. My camera is my soul to the world.....
When I first read this challenge, I took it to mean the photo had to be shot in black and white, not color turned black and white.........anyway, while shooting I noticed my blacks look a little fuzzy........any suggestions? I have actually gotten quite lazy and always shoot color, then switch. Had I done that I don't think I would have a problem. Anyway, advise would be appreciated.
Stephanie
It's not seen as lazy around here to shoot in color and convert your image to bw. It's seen as the right way to do it. It leaves you all the options in the final conversion.
When I first read this challenge, I took it to mean the photo had to be shot in black and white, not color turned black and white.........anyway, while shooting I noticed my blacks look a little fuzzy........any suggestions? I have actually gotten quite lazy and always shoot color, then switch. Had I done that I don't think I would have a problem. Anyway, advise would be appreciated.
Stephanie
Stephanie,
I notice you shoot with a Olympus E620, that's what I shoot with and so I"m familiar with the art filter "black and white grainy". Is this how you shot it? I know that setting usually has extreme contrast and is very grainy. is that what you mean about fuzzy, very grainy? Because you can't fix that really, and it's one of my favorite things about my Olympus E620.
I also discovered through a dgrin thread that if you shoot in RAW you can go to the Olympus Masters program and apply the b&w art filter to your shot and have just a smidge more control over it (but not much).
If you don't like the fuzz/grain then don't use the filter and just convert (converting is harder to do in my opinion and it's hard to get it right, so definately not the lazy way, not if you want to do it right anyway--which I still haven't nailed, but I'm currently in the learning process). FYI for my entry for this challenge, I shot RAW and converted (not using the art filter).
Roldan—No EXIF.
MikeK—No "Date Taken" in EXIF.
scas—"Date Taken" shows a time a few hours before the challenge start. Double-check camera settings for future rounds.
And one mystery entry with no username:
Also note that some folks entered full captions instead of the required "username - title" format. Instead of DQing these, I edited the captions so only the first part was left as a title. This is to avoid influencing the judges' decision since the images themselves are supposed to tell the story this round, not the captions.
That mystery one would be mine. I wasn't paying attention to the fact that we weren't posting the entry under our Smugmug/Dgrin user name. Anywho...I can update it, or just take a pass on that one. I was sorry I couldn't find something more interesting than traffic anyway....
The entries were plentiful this round, and many were very good. Choosing ten images was an arduous task, but after much deliberation, I have chosen what I believe to be the ten best images.
:whew
Anyone who knows me, knows how much I love the dgrin community and these challenges. We have so many excellent photographers and talented people who are generous in their sharing.
Having said that, let me say a few things that may be bold and controversial, but I mean them in a helpful way
1. I believe that PJ is our weakest skill as a community (with a few exceptions of course)
2. I also believe that this challenge validates my point in #1. Although there were some really good PJ shots, imo, there far less good shots than in any previous challenge.
3. Given #1 and #2 above, it would have been helpful to have judges that were experienced and expert in this style.
4. BD is our resident expert in this area, and I would like hear his and other dgrin PJ experts (you know who you are) express your opinions on the submitted photos.
Well put, Dan. I tried to capture a few images for this challenge, but I realized that my captures were very lame and only tangentially qualified as PJ shots. I had some good training in PJ in college, which is probably why I am so critical of my own efforts in this area of photography. Barns, clouds, and doggies are so much easier!
More Photography . . . Less Photoshop [. . . except when I do it] Jeff Meyers
I'm not sure I'd put myself in the "you know who you are" category, but here goes. I thought about volunteering for the guest judge role, but didn't make it in time.
I can't do a composite image in PS to save me, so I'm not about to blanket criticise others about what I find moderately natural to do myself when I'm out taking pictures. For me, I would have taken the same shots in any instance as that's simply what I do. But as I said in the feedback thread, I truly appreciate how hard it was for many other DGrinners to move to this style.
There are several shots that I don't think fit the theme nor the intent. But there are also several excellent shots that I doubt will be well received. Nothing spectacular, but simple honest imagery.
I'm still learning to tell stories through spontaneous moments and agree that the community needs more practice.
Anyone who knows me, knows how much I love the dgrin community and these challenges. We have so many excellent photographers and talented people who are generous in their sharing.
Having said that, let me say a few things that may be bold and controversial, but I mean them in a helpful way
1. I believe that PJ is our weakest skill as a community (with a few exceptions of course)
2. I also believe that this challenge validates my point in #1. Although there were some really good PJ shots, imo, there far less good shots than in any previous challenge.
3. Given #1 and #2 above, it would have been helpful to have judges that were experienced and expert in this style.
4. BD is our resident expert in this area, and I would like hear his and other dgrin PJ experts (you know who you are) express your opinions on the submitted photos.
Respectfully,
Dan
I'll bite
#1 this is truly relative
#2 again relative
#3 this has never happend yet? why ask now?
#4 you get what you get.....
Now for my .02 (nothing personal)
I see no need for argument on this matter and zero reason to dismiss our 2 judges.
heck I can rewind and apply this arguemnt to any past DSS (not to mention the times I've been jaded/robbed...IMmostHO)
Thats just the name of the game Dan....
So obviously Trevor didnt get your entry? You yourself played judge in the past and have pasted up on a number of entries based on "your opinion", so I see no difference between this round and any other.
We Enter, We Judge, We Vote....
AND IMO PJ is no harder than any other genre, its all perspective. !!
I see no need for argument on this matter and zero reason to dismiss our 2 judges.
heck I can rewind and apply this arguemnt to any past DSS (not to mention the times I've been jaded/robbed...IMmostHO)
Thats just the name of the game Dan....
So obviously Trevor didnt get your entry? You yourself played judge in the past and have pasted up on a number of entries based on "your opinion", so I see no difference between this round and any other.
We Enter, We Judge, We Vote....
AND IMO PJ is no harder than any other genre, its all perspective. !!
Well obviously I totally disagree with your comments, but that's ok.
#3 I believe that in almost all previous challenges that our judges were "qualified to express critical opinions", but in this challenge we are all so weak (again with a few exceptions), that qualified feedback is important.
No one is "arguing" Aaron, and I am certainly not "dismissing" anyone, whatever that means. I am suggesting that in this particular genre (PJ) we are weak, and by acknowledging our weakness, we can get much better, especially if we 1. realize we are weak, and 2. get coaching from those that are strong.
Finally, everything is "relative". That was my whole point. Relatively speaking PJ is weak in this community as opposed to weddings or landscapes or wildlife. Naturally, judging will also be "relatively" weak.
By acknowledging the elephant in the room, one can create a possibility of moving forward.
Finaly, to interpret my comments as argumentative and dismissive is both argumentative and dismissive of you
Well obviously I totally disagree with your comments, but that's ok.
#3 I believe that in almost all previous challenges that our judges were "qualified to express critical opinions", but in this challenge we are all so weak (again with a few exceptions), that qualified feedback is important.
No one is "arguing" Aaron, and I am certainly not "dismissing" anyone, whatever that means. I am suggesting that in this particular genre (PJ) we are weak, and by acknowledging our weakness, we can get much better, especially if we 1. realize we are weak, and 2. get coaching from those that are strong.
Finally, everything is "relative". That was my whole point. Relatively speaking PJ is weak in this community as opposed to weddings or landscapes or wildlife. Naturally, judging will also be "relatively" weak.
By acknowledging the elephant in the room, one can create a possibility of moving forward.
here damn it
"dismissing" : to reject serious consideration of <dismissed the thought> to put out of judicial consideration
I see what you are saying, (a little better than before)
but Im happy to agree that we disagree, I will never back down from my opinion that this DSS is no different than any other DSS and all the variables are exactly the same.
PJ is nothing special over any other genre and its just as hard to hit a home run with any theme.... I think just as many people here hit a home run as any other DSS round before and there is no need to be dismissive of that opinion or to my argumentivenessnesssness....:D
now, what's the elephant in your point? skill in PJ?
again, relative!!! we are amateurs remember....
now lets move on to the argument of HDR and how bad it ruins a image.:D
I wouldn't say the community as a whole is weak in PJ style of shooting but I would agree that this particular group of entries is not the strongest example of PJ photography.
I also think there is wide misconception of PJ photography and much like any other category there are diverse thoughts and beliefs within the style itself.
It is all relative and dependent on the specific goals and circumstances of 1. the photographer and 2. the assignment. The challenges are loosely based themes and thus need to be judged as such. While it would be great for BD to comment on each image that is not a requirement for these challenges.
Those looking to improve their work in this style have a place on the forum to do so. There an entire category for street and PJ style images and there are members willing to provide their comments and thoughts on your shots if you post them.
"The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"
Comments
Let me carry this a bit further - Part of the problem with this challenge is that it is inaccurately named and oddly defined - sorry, but...
IF this is a "photo journalism" challenge, it should NOT be limited to black and white - very, very little modern photo journalism is done in black and white. And IF it is a photo journalism challenge the entries should be examples of photo journalism - photographs as journalism, that is, photographs that either illustrate a news story, or themselves tell stories. These might be photos of fires, political rallies, tragedies, celebrations of public interest, funerals of public interest. They might be photos from picture stories. As Rutt as noted - and I understand his frustration - news photos are, overwhelmingly, photos of PEOPLE - unposed people. Yes, there are photos of collapsed buildings in Haiti, and traffic jams in where ever - but it is PEOPLE who make news. And photo journalism is about NEWS. Look at Rutt's photos in the gallery of the Haitian call center.
Now, as the challenge is set up, it is called Photo Journalism, yet it includes Street Photography - which is NOT photo journalism, and Documentary Photography - which can cross boundaries with photo journalism. In fact, Documentary Photography is, at its core, long-form photo journalism with much less formalism; i.e., it often includes posed photos.
Anyway, I'd suggest that the challenge be recalibrated: If it's a BLACK AND WHITE CANDIDS challenge, let's call it that. But if it's a photo journalism challenge, let's go back to the drawing board.
And whatever it is, let's focus on the people and have the challenge be really challenging.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Rutt, I think your sharing a great deal of experiance and you're teaching many that have not been exposed to this type of photography. Dont worry about if someone takes it personal because if it wasn't you that offended them it wouldnt be long before they were offended by someone else here on Dgrin....so in otherwords, people that get offended dont seem to stick around much anyway.... those that take C&C and find something from it to grow will be here a long time....right?
I see what your saying about Harry's challenge, your saying get out and try right?
Alex, good thing your not the judge!....:D we better see lots of individual C&C anyway.
I can see PJ as a serious genre and I respect it. But I dont have a single clue of what's good or what not except what~and~how I perceive the image under my own opinion.
So, Alex or Anyone pls tell me if I'm wrong;
Imo, "PJ photography is a photo that accompanies a news story/article and should provoke an emotion."
So how can any photo we capture in the attempt to tell a story "NOT" be worthy of pj photography? To me it seems to be only a matter of skill in doing it, and also how one reads it. I dont see how it "can't" fit the theme or not....
I'm still up for comments though.
Darn B.D.
If they change it to strictly black and white PJ, I will have to remove my "Gentrification" shot (street)! and back to the drawing board:)
_________
it is a B&W challenge, Im not sure why you would enter something other than...
forget the b&w part of my comment. just if they change it to purely PJ I will remove it as it's more "street/documentary" than PJ--it doesn't have people in it. That's what I meant. But I do think it definately fits the Street/docu portion.
It is quite a broad category which is where the confusion likely comes into play. As is we've had some pretty healthy discussion in the PJ/street forum as to what constitutes street/pj.
Hope I didn't just add to the confusion.
_________
I think your entry is very theme worthy Liz. As for the guide lines for the challenge changing after being posted, (B&W to color), I don't see that happening. This challenge is no different then a lot of the others. It gets posted and people go through the pondering stage and read more into it then whats meant to. Or twist the meaning of the guidelines so that there entry fits. Or.......it goes on and on. I have that same struggle as everyone else with some of the challenges.
The bottom line is anticipating what the two judges interpretations are going to be. I definitely wouldn't want to be judging this round for my lack of experience in this genre.
Nelson Lehner
Dreamin' of a resolution!:D
Having started my career on a news copy desk, I stand by my earlier comment in this thread, which doesn't seem to be far off from your definition, B.D.
Do people make photos more interesting? Yes. But does including people automatically make it PJ? No.
As with every challenge, much depends upon judges' interpretation. The straight PJ shooters among us may disagree, but the main goal of these challenges is to encourage people to learn. If everyone participating comes out of this challenge having learned something more about PJ, it will have been a successful challenge.
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Yes, I think this is perfect. But I'm hoping that in this particular case, it takes many photographers and viewers way outside their emotional comfort zones.
The category is street black and white--but the description right underneath it said the following:
"PJ, street, candid, whatever your name for it, your goal is to capture a scene as you find it. Give your viewers a sense of place, or a moment, or an unexpected discovery. Nothing staged, nothing cloned, just you, your camera, and your feet pounding the pavement. All shots must be in black and white, without toning."
FWIW.
_________
www.focusedonyourmemories.com
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
looks acceptable to me.... I read a story from it.... so, good luck fwiw!
www.focusedonyourmemories.com
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Stephanie
Inspiration is everywhere you look.......
Beauty is in the smallest details..........
Love is a blessing..............................
My camera is my soul to the world.....
_________________________________
Olympus E-620
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Stephanie,
I notice you shoot with a Olympus E620, that's what I shoot with and so I"m familiar with the art filter "black and white grainy". Is this how you shot it? I know that setting usually has extreme contrast and is very grainy. is that what you mean about fuzzy, very grainy? Because you can't fix that really, and it's one of my favorite things about my Olympus E620.
I also discovered through a dgrin thread that if you shoot in RAW you can go to the Olympus Masters program and apply the b&w art filter to your shot and have just a smidge more control over it (but not much).
If you don't like the fuzz/grain then don't use the filter and just convert (converting is harder to do in my opinion and it's hard to get it right, so definately not the lazy way, not if you want to do it right anyway--which I still haven't nailed, but I'm currently in the learning process). FYI for my entry for this challenge, I shot RAW and converted (not using the art filter).
Hope this helps somewhat.
_________
As a stern and blunt reviewer in the beginning, I'm very glad to see this. (Not so much as a competitor.
Four DQs this time:
Roldan—No EXIF.
MikeK—No "Date Taken" in EXIF.
scas—"Date Taken" shows a time a few hours before the challenge start. Double-check camera settings for future rounds.
And one mystery entry with no username:
Also note that some folks entered full captions instead of the required "username - title" format. Instead of DQing these, I edited the captions so only the first part was left as a title. This is to avoid influencing the judges' decision since the images themselves are supposed to tell the story this round, not the captions.
"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
-- Abraham Lincoln
:whew
Having said that, let me say a few things that may be bold and controversial, but I mean them in a helpful way
1. I believe that PJ is our weakest skill as a community (with a few exceptions of course)
2. I also believe that this challenge validates my point in #1. Although there were some really good PJ shots, imo, there far less good shots than in any previous challenge.
3. Given #1 and #2 above, it would have been helpful to have judges that were experienced and expert in this style.
4. BD is our resident expert in this area, and I would like hear his and other dgrin PJ experts (you know who you are) express your opinions on the submitted photos.
Respectfully,
Dan
http://danielplumer.com/
Facebook Fan Page
Jeff Meyers
I can't do a composite image in PS to save me, so I'm not about to blanket criticise others about what I find moderately natural to do myself when I'm out taking pictures. For me, I would have taken the same shots in any instance as that's simply what I do. But as I said in the feedback thread, I truly appreciate how hard it was for many other DGrinners to move to this style.
There are several shots that I don't think fit the theme nor the intent. But there are also several excellent shots that I doubt will be well received. Nothing spectacular, but simple honest imagery.
I'm still learning to tell stories through spontaneous moments and agree that the community needs more practice.
I'll bite
#1 this is truly relative
#2 again relative
#3 this has never happend yet? why ask now?
#4 you get what you get.....
Now for my .02 (nothing personal)
I see no need for argument on this matter and zero reason to dismiss our 2 judges.
heck I can rewind and apply this arguemnt to any past DSS (not to mention the times I've been jaded/robbed...IMmostHO)
Thats just the name of the game Dan....
So obviously Trevor didnt get your entry? You yourself played judge in the past and have pasted up on a number of entries based on "your opinion", so I see no difference between this round and any other.
We Enter, We Judge, We Vote....
AND IMO PJ is no harder than any other genre, its all perspective. !!
Well obviously I totally disagree with your comments, but that's ok.
#3 I believe that in almost all previous challenges that our judges were "qualified to express critical opinions", but in this challenge we are all so weak (again with a few exceptions), that qualified feedback is important.
No one is "arguing" Aaron, and I am certainly not "dismissing" anyone, whatever that means. I am suggesting that in this particular genre (PJ) we are weak, and by acknowledging our weakness, we can get much better, especially if we 1. realize we are weak, and 2. get coaching from those that are strong.
Finally, everything is "relative". That was my whole point. Relatively speaking PJ is weak in this community as opposed to weddings or landscapes or wildlife. Naturally, judging will also be "relatively" weak.
By acknowledging the elephant in the room, one can create a possibility of moving forward.
Finaly, to interpret my comments as argumentative and dismissive is both argumentative and dismissive of you
Love you man:D
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here damn it
"dismissing" : to reject serious consideration of <dismissed the thought> to put out of judicial consideration
I see what you are saying, (a little better than before)
but Im happy to agree that we disagree, I will never back down from my opinion that this DSS is no different than any other DSS and all the variables are exactly the same.
PJ is nothing special over any other genre and its just as hard to hit a home run with any theme.... I think just as many people here hit a home run as any other DSS round before and there is no need to be dismissive of that opinion or to my argumentivenessnesssness....:D
now, what's the elephant in your point? skill in PJ?
again, relative!!! we are amateurs remember....
now lets move on to the argument of HDR and how bad it ruins a image.:D
I agree and disagree with both of you!
I wouldn't say the community as a whole is weak in PJ style of shooting but I would agree that this particular group of entries is not the strongest example of PJ photography.
I also think there is wide misconception of PJ photography and much like any other category there are diverse thoughts and beliefs within the style itself.
It is all relative and dependent on the specific goals and circumstances of 1. the photographer and 2. the assignment. The challenges are loosely based themes and thus need to be judged as such. While it would be great for BD to comment on each image that is not a requirement for these challenges.
Those looking to improve their work in this style have a place on the forum to do so. There an entire category for street and PJ style images and there are members willing to provide their comments and thoughts on your shots if you post them.
Aaron Newman
Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion