What I really like about this challenge is that it introduced so many more DGrinners to this genre of photography. There were posts both on this challenge forum and in the Street & PJ forum and will hopefully spark continuing interest and expansion of this group.
So part of the caliber of the entries is related to the many entries from inexperienced (to the genre) photographers. Secondly, many of the regulars on the forum are relative (there's that word again! ) newbies to the genre itself as this forum is a recent addition to DGrin.
So even before the judging proceeds, I believe the challenge has been successful on many fronts. Certainly has been a fun exercise.
There was another side to it. It got me interested in participating in a challenge. It was harder than I thought it would be and turned out to be fun. I might even do it again.
There was another side to it. It got me interested in participating in a challenge. It was harder than I thought it would be and turned out to be fun. I might even do it again.
Rutt, while you may be as bad as you think you are, you're not as bad as you think everyone thinks you are... You can always count on knowing that I know that you know what you mean...
It's not seen as lazy around here to shoot in color and convert your image to bw. It's seen as the right way to do it. It leaves you all the options in the final conversion.
Sorry.....I didn't mean to imply anyone was lazy. Just that prior to digital, I had to work harder with black and white film to have a good print, no I don't .
Please forgive me if I offended you or anyone else! That was not my intent.
I love digital and love having the option to have a photo in color or black and white!
Stephanie
Inspiration is everywhere you look....... Beauty is in the smallest details.......... Love is a blessing.............................. My camera is my soul to the world.....
Thanks for the response. I love the black and white grainy filter, but no that is not how I shot my photos. I used the monotone setting within the camera to shoot in. I am not sure why the photos seem fuzzy to me, though I am sure you could give me a wonderul bit of advise if only I could load them up. I rarely shoot in raw as I am still learning how to use that program and about that. It scares me really.
As for the photos, I will try once more to upload one and see if I can get some critique. I am so so sorry I missed this challenge, it was a good one to get me out of my box. Regardless, I got out of the box, though nothing submitted, still a victory for me.
Stephanie,
I notice you shoot with a Olympus E620, that's what I shoot with and so I"m familiar with the art filter "black and white grainy". Is this how you shot it? I know that setting usually has extreme contrast and is very grainy. is that what you mean about fuzzy, very grainy? Because you can't fix that really, and it's one of my favorite things about my Olympus E620.
I also discovered through a dgrin thread that if you shoot in RAW you can go to the Olympus Masters program and apply the b&w art filter to your shot and have just a smidge more control over it (but not much).
If you don't like the fuzz/grain then don't use the filter and just convert (converting is harder to do in my opinion and it's hard to get it right, so definately not the lazy way, not if you want to do it right anyway--which I still haven't nailed, but I'm currently in the learning process). FYI for my entry for this challenge, I shot RAW and converted (not using the art filter).
Hope this helps somewhat.
Stephanie
Inspiration is everywhere you look....... Beauty is in the smallest details.......... Love is a blessing.............................. My camera is my soul to the world.....
As for the photos, I will try once more to upload one and see if I can get some critique. I am so so sorry I missed this challenge, it was a good one to get me out of my box. Regardless, I got out of the box, though nothing submitted, still a victory for me.
I can not submit a photo!!!!!
There is a paper clip icon above the thread box for attachments. But I did do this last week and it was not easy. Once you figure it out, you can still post in the Street and PJ forum. People there will be happy to rip you to shreds (said only half jokingly ).
Also note that some folks entered full captions instead of the required "username - title" format. Instead of DQing these, I edited the captions so only the first part was left as a title. This is to avoid influencing the judges' decision since the images themselves are supposed to tell the story this round, not the captions.
Alritey, I'm in need of a little clarification. Forgive me while I blabber on for a sec. Call me simple minded, but for this challenge I said to myself 'newspaper'. What would I see in a newspaper. And once I narrowed down what I thought would be my entry, I gave it a title. I think it was, "Olympic Torch runs through small town Devon". I say I think because it was crunched to "Olympic Torch". My confusion is, and I don't mean to pick on anyone, what the difference was in the first two entries titles compared to mine. I don't want to have this issue again. It would break my heart to ever be DQ'd, even if my entry isn't a strong one, because I really value the feedback that everyone leaves.
Lengthy titles irk me personally, but I usually let them pass. It just started to get out of hand this round--captions were really becoming captions, not titles.
Sheepishly, I can't give a great reason as to why I left the first two alone other than they were the first two and the trend didn't dawn on me until I started seeing it occur more frequently in the later entries. Apologies for that. Looking back, I would have edited the first, but not the second. I can buy the second as a title; it's just generic enough. If still too long.
Lengthy titles irk me personally, but I usually let them pass. It just started to get out of hand this round--captions were really becoming captions, not titles.
Sheepishly, I can't give a great reason as to why I left the first two alone other than they were the first two and the trend didn't dawn on me until I started seeing it occur more frequently in the later entries. Apologies for that. Looking back, I would have edited the first, but not the second. I can buy the second as a title; it's just generic enough. If still too long.
Neither do I particularly, but she had a whole album title that was a paragraph long... "When the Pawn...."
You would definitely have a difficult time with the Tidewater Tales by John Barth. The table of contents was over 30 pages long, if I recall correctly. Some chapter headings being almost a page in length. My first attempt at reading it failed. The second, I absolutely loved it.
Also note that some folks entered full captions instead of the required "username - title" format. Instead of DQing these, I edited the captions so only the first part was left as a title. This is to avoid influencing the judges' decision since the images themselves are supposed to tell the story this round, not the captions.
I really wish you hadn't done this, with all due respect.
I spend a lot of time on titling my work, for better or for worse. If there is a length limit to titles, by all means enforce it, and DQ mine if necessary, but please don't edit what I have created, even if it is a steaming pile of :bs.
I would no more have a moderator edit my titles than edit my image. If I did poorly on either or both (as I did this particular challenge), well, my results are up there, naked for the world, and the judges of the challenge, to see.
You have made apparent your dislike for long titles/captions, and, by all means, use that a criteria when you are judging! But I think that moderators editing titles (and apparently not all of them, by your own admission) is a bad precedent to set.
Mark, apologies if you were offended. That was certainly not my intent. A few titles were full-on sentences. Some of them more than one sentence long, punctuated accordingly. It just got out of hand this round.
I can understand why it did, this being a PJ round and many people thinking "newspaper" when uploading shots. But there's a fine line between titling an image to help the story and leaning on a title to fill in the gaps the image might have missed. I wanted the judges to focus on the images, since our goal is to learn more about photography here, and not be distracted by heavy text. It began to feel like the focus was moving more to explaining the images, rather than letting the images tell the story.
I found editing a good compromise, and you may certainly disagree. This round was unique, so I don't expect the issue to arise again. I've kept my personal irks out of my all my decisions here, and it was the same for this decision. I didn't edit because I don't like long titles. I edited for the reasons outlined above. I never make any decision lightly, despite my often joking and light tone here.
Now that the judging has completed, please feel free to change your caption back to the way you'd like it to appear.
Mark, apologies if you were offended. That was certainly not my intent. A few titles were full-on sentences. Some of them more than one sentence long, punctuated accordingly. It just got out of hand this round.
I can understand why it did, this being a PJ round and many people thinking "newspaper" when uploading shots. But there's a fine line between titling an image to help the story and leaning on a title to fill in the gaps the image might have missed. I wanted the judges to focus on the images, since our goal is to learn more about photography here, and not be distracted by heavy text. It began to feel like the focus was moving more to explaining the images, rather than letting the images tell the story.
I found editing a good compromise, and you may certainly disagree. This round was unique, so I don't expect the issue to arise again. I've kept my personal irks out of my all my decisions here, and it was the same for this decision. I didn't edit because I don't like long titles. I edited for the reasons outlined above. I never make any decision lightly, despite my often joking and light tone here.
Now that the judging has completed, please feel free to change your caption back to the way you'd like it to appear.
First, no worries about offending me. I was a car salesman for 7 years and work in an IT call center for 5 years running now. My skin's so thick you could grill off it. And for the record, my entry and title were both crap. (Can I say crap? Guess I just did.)
I am at this point, more concerned about the principles at stake for future challenges. I believe that entrants should have a reasonable right to expect that their entries will be solely judged upon what they enter, which includes the image and the title, as long as it follows the letter and the spirit of the contest rules.
How would you feel if you won a contest, only to find that it was based on a different crop than what you entered? As importantly, how would you feel if you lost because someone edited your image without your knowledge? We don't edit others images, we shouldn't be changing titles on people.
More concerning to me is that some titles were edited but not others. How is that remotely fair to anyone? Fair is fair: the rules apply the same across the board, not selectively. If there are to be rules to title length or content, then by all means, put them in the contest rules for the next challenge so that everyone knows what they are.
Otherwise, if someone enters a paragraph long title, so what? You don't like it, and the judges and other challengers won't like it, and the entrant likely won't win, and will either start shortening titles or stop submitting based on the (quite excellent) feedback both here and in the gallery.
Ok, said my piece. Now back to doing taxes. (No wonder I'm in a fightin' mood! :lol)
Anyone who knows me, knows how much I love the dgrin community and these challenges. We have so many excellent photographers and talented people who are generous in their sharing.
Having said that, let me say a few things that may be bold and controversial, but I mean them in a helpful way
1. I believe that PJ is our weakest skill as a community (with a few exceptions of course)
2. I also believe that this challenge validates my point in #1. Although there were some really good PJ shots, imo, there far less good shots than in any previous challenge.
3. Given #1 and #2 above, it would have been helpful to have judges that were experienced and expert in this style.
4. BD is our resident expert in this area, and I would like hear his and other dgrin PJ experts (you know who you are) express your opinions on the submitted photos.
Respectfully,
Dan
Well I supose if BD wanted to express his opinion on submitted photos then I guess he would... You know the DGRIN challenges are open to any DGRIN member... even resident experts.
And Dan you really need to make sure you have your facts straight before you make a statement about judges and their particular area of expertise. FYI I was a US Navy Photojournalist. I was trained at the Defense Information School in Fort Meade Maryland where all Department of Defense PJ's are trained... I have had photos used and published by major news outlets as well as DOD news outlets, I even had one of my photos used as the cover for a Civilian Magazine... So don't assume you know who has experience and who doesn't...
What do you think you know about Photojournalism Dan? Your submission was actually very good, it was actually in my top 15 choices... It just didn't make the final cut... would you like a critique Dan? Focus should have been on the old guy who could be looking at you or the kid, needs to be cropped much tighter, left bottom and right, the headlight on the car is a complete distraction and useless information. The image would be better if shot vertical very tight. anyway thats technical... what does the image really say, what's the story... Boy, on his way to School, skateboards past Elderly man on sidewalk, Anytown USA... now you want the impact to be that there is a huge generation gap and that the old guy is thoroughly disgusted by the sight of the skateboarding kid with the low hanging pants... Well the shot just doesn't convey that message well enough... Now if you had captured the old guy confronting the kid or maybe a different angle where you could really tell the old guy was looking at the kid in a disgusting manner then that would be a shot... There is your critique Dan... If anyone else would like one don't hesitate, just ask... I'll be more than happy to oblige.
If you want to discuss your own short comings thats fine, but don't tell the entire community they suck at something, thats just way to presumptuous and arrogant of you.
Fair enough, Mark. I have apologized a couple times already, but I apologize again.
No worries, just had to make my point. (Tilting at windmills a speciality. )
I notice that the new "Collect" feature is turned on in the Challenge galleries. Is there an official dgrin-challenges stance on this feature being turned on or off? Just curious.
I notice that the new "Collect" feature is turned on in the Challenge galleries. Is there an official dgrin-challenges stance on this feature being turned on or off? Just curious.
Not really, since the feature is less than 24 hours old. Disabled for the time being. Folks are free to voice their opinion about it in the challenges discussion thread.
Comments
So part of the caliber of the entries is related to the many entries from inexperienced (to the genre) photographers. Secondly, many of the regulars on the forum are relative (there's that word again!
So even before the judging proceeds, I believe the challenge has been successful on many fronts. Certainly has been a fun exercise.
And you should definitely do more..
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Sorry.....I didn't mean to imply anyone was lazy. Just that prior to digital, I had to work harder with black and white film to have a good print, no I don't .
Please forgive me if I offended you or anyone else! That was not my intent.
I love digital and love having the option to have a photo in color or black and white!
Inspiration is everywhere you look.......
Beauty is in the smallest details..........
Love is a blessing..............................
My camera is my soul to the world.....
_________________________________
Olympus E-620
Thanks for the response. I love the black and white grainy filter, but no that is not how I shot my photos. I used the monotone setting within the camera to shoot in. I am not sure why the photos seem fuzzy to me, though I am sure you could give me a wonderul bit of advise if only I could load them up. I rarely shoot in raw as I am still learning how to use that program and about that. It scares me really.
As for the photos, I will try once more to upload one and see if I can get some critique. I am so so sorry I missed this challenge, it was a good one to get me out of my box. Regardless, I got out of the box, though nothing submitted, still a victory for me.
I can not submit a photo!!!!!
Inspiration is everywhere you look.......
Beauty is in the smallest details..........
Love is a blessing..............................
My camera is my soul to the world.....
_________________________________
Olympus E-620
There is a paper clip icon above the thread box for attachments. But I did do this last week and it was not easy. Once you figure it out, you can still post in the Street and PJ forum. People there will be happy to rip you to shreds (said only half jokingly
Alritey, I'm in need of a little clarification. Forgive me while I blabber on for a sec.
Nelson Lehner
Dreamin' of a resolution!:D
Sheepishly, I can't give a great reason as to why I left the first two alone other than they were the first two and the trend didn't dawn on me until I started seeing it occur more frequently in the later entries. Apologies for that.
Fair enough Kerry. Short and sweet from now on.
Nelson Lehner
Dreamin' of a resolution!:D
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
Strangely, I don't, but it never occurred to me her titles might have something to do with it.
www.HoofClix.com / Personal Facebook / Facebook Page
and I do believe its true.. that there are roads left in both of our shoes..
You would definitely have a difficult time with the Tidewater Tales by John Barth. The table of contents was over 30 pages long, if I recall correctly. Some chapter headings being almost a page in length. My first attempt at reading it failed. The second, I absolutely loved it.
I really wish you hadn't done this, with all due respect.
I spend a lot of time on titling my work, for better or for worse. If there is a length limit to titles, by all means enforce it, and DQ mine if necessary, but please don't edit what I have created, even if it is a steaming pile of :bs.
I would no more have a moderator edit my titles than edit my image. If I did poorly on either or both (as I did this particular challenge), well, my results are up there, naked for the world, and the judges of the challenge, to see.
You have made apparent your dislike for long titles/captions, and, by all means, use that a criteria when you are judging! But I think that moderators editing titles (and apparently not all of them, by your own admission) is a bad precedent to set.
There, I'm off my soapbox now.
I can understand why it did, this being a PJ round and many people thinking "newspaper" when uploading shots. But there's a fine line between titling an image to help the story and leaning on a title to fill in the gaps the image might have missed. I wanted the judges to focus on the images, since our goal is to learn more about photography here, and not be distracted by heavy text. It began to feel like the focus was moving more to explaining the images, rather than letting the images tell the story.
I found editing a good compromise, and you may certainly disagree. This round was unique, so I don't expect the issue to arise again. I've kept my personal irks out of my all my decisions here, and it was the same for this decision. I didn't edit because I don't like long titles. I edited for the reasons outlined above. I never make any decision lightly, despite my often joking and light tone here.
Now that the judging has completed, please feel free to change your caption back to the way you'd like it to appear.
First, no worries about offending me. I was a car salesman for 7 years and work in an IT call center for 5 years running now. My skin's so thick you could grill off it.
I am at this point, more concerned about the principles at stake for future challenges. I believe that entrants should have a reasonable right to expect that their entries will be solely judged upon what they enter, which includes the image and the title, as long as it follows the letter and the spirit of the contest rules.
How would you feel if you won a contest, only to find that it was based on a different crop than what you entered? As importantly, how would you feel if you lost because someone edited your image without your knowledge? We don't edit others images, we shouldn't be changing titles on people.
More concerning to me is that some titles were edited but not others. How is that remotely fair to anyone? Fair is fair: the rules apply the same across the board, not selectively. If there are to be rules to title length or content, then by all means, put them in the contest rules for the next challenge so that everyone knows what they are.
Otherwise, if someone enters a paragraph long title, so what? You don't like it, and the judges and other challengers won't like it, and the entrant likely won't win, and will either start shortening titles or stop submitting based on the (quite excellent) feedback both here and in the gallery.
Ok, said my piece. Now back to doing taxes. (No wonder I'm in a fightin' mood! :lol)
Well I supose if BD wanted to express his opinion on submitted photos then I guess he would... You know the DGRIN challenges are open to any DGRIN member... even resident experts.
And Dan you really need to make sure you have your facts straight before you make a statement about judges and their particular area of expertise. FYI I was a US Navy Photojournalist. I was trained at the Defense Information School in Fort Meade Maryland where all Department of Defense PJ's are trained... I have had photos used and published by major news outlets as well as DOD news outlets, I even had one of my photos used as the cover for a Civilian Magazine... So don't assume you know who has experience and who doesn't...
What do you think you know about Photojournalism Dan? Your submission was actually very good, it was actually in my top 15 choices... It just didn't make the final cut... would you like a critique Dan? Focus should have been on the old guy who could be looking at you or the kid, needs to be cropped much tighter, left bottom and right, the headlight on the car is a complete distraction and useless information. The image would be better if shot vertical very tight. anyway thats technical... what does the image really say, what's the story... Boy, on his way to School, skateboards past Elderly man on sidewalk, Anytown USA... now you want the impact to be that there is a huge generation gap and that the old guy is thoroughly disgusted by the sight of the skateboarding kid with the low hanging pants... Well the shot just doesn't convey that message well enough... Now if you had captured the old guy confronting the kid or maybe a different angle where you could really tell the old guy was looking at the kid in a disgusting manner then that would be a shot... There is your critique Dan... If anyone else would like one don't hesitate, just ask... I'll be more than happy to oblige.
If you want to discuss your own short comings thats fine, but don't tell the entire community they suck at something, thats just way to presumptuous and arrogant of you.
Regards
Winston
No worries, just had to make my point. (Tilting at windmills a speciality.
I notice that the new "Collect" feature is turned on in the Challenge galleries. Is there an official dgrin-challenges stance on this feature being turned on or off? Just curious.