I also like the dots. And I want to start using the new design NOW!
While I like a number of the new changes I would prefer it to stay in pre-alpha for as long as it takes for SmugMug to make significant leaps ahead -> to get it right. This goes way beyond a pretty face lift, but addresses core issues such as making things more flexible for users to design their own unique gallery sites. More customization with fewer user scripts/coding/tweaks needed is Huge! And to get to that level is no small undertaking. We are talking significant structural changes. Extra themes, dots on a page or lack of clutter is simply icing on the cake (lipstick on a pig). Rather the things being talked about go far beyond the current look. So be patient. I actually hope it takes a really Looooong time with many iterations and thoughtful development every step of the way. Working with software as a profession there are usually two options: quick and dirty or the the Right Way which most often is more painful and time consuming. But the later is best in almost every case unless making some emergency fix/patch.
When you go in for surgery or are having major work done on your car do you want them to just get over with really fast or do it right?
Do you ever get upgraded software and think what's really change besides a basic face lift? On the other hand how about a new version that you are truly excited about based on new functionality?
Changing "Size" to "Auto" in the lightbox makes no sense at all. Unless you
know what it means most visitors will never change the size.
What's just as bad is I can't open the size I want without picking it after
open the lightbox.
Again I ask, why the cute circle with an "X" and not just say "close". Most
visitors probaly won't even see it and it is very important viewing videos.
I guess icons/symbols are great for geeks but most visitors have no idea
what they mean. Download and info are good examples. There's plenty of
room to just put in the words.
I hate the page dots, many times I ask a viewer how many thumbs they see and what page they're on so I can coordinate viewing along with them.
Please move that obnoxious buy button to the same line as the gallery title
and slideshow and out of the description box so we can use the full width
of the description box.
While I like a number of the new changes I would prefer it to stay in pre-alpha for as long as it takes for SmugMug to make significant leaps ahead -> to get it right. This goes way beyond a pretty face lift, but addresses core issues such as making things more flexible for users to design their own unique gallery sites. More customization with fewer user scripts/coding/tweaks needed is Huge! And to get to that level is no small undertaking. We are talking significant structural changes. Extra themes, dots on a page or lack of clutter is simply icing on the cake (lipstick on a pig). Rather the things being talked about go far beyond the current look. So be patient. I actually hope it takes a really Looooong time with many iterations and thoughtful development every step of the way. Working with software as a profession there are usually two options: quick and dirty or the the Right Way which most often is more painful and time consuming. But the later is best in almost every case unless making some emergency fix/patch.
When you go in for surgery or are having major work done on your car do you want them to just get over with really fast or do it right?
Do you ever get upgraded software and think what's really change besides a basic face lift? On the other hand how about a new version that you are truly excited about based on new functionality?
Lightbox navigation
One of the biggest "suggestions" I get from my clients (besides the difficulty in figuring out how to buy prints and finding an online price list) is the lightbox navigation. They want the navigation to work like facebook, in that when you click on a lightbox image it should go to the next image - instead of closing the lightbox. Can this be changed? Or at least allow an easy way for pros to customize this behavior?
Other recommendations for customization:
- Expose Ajax events for us to react to when customizing.
- Server side customization would be the ultimate, but I would imagine that would be too much of an infrastructure change for you guys.
One of the biggest "suggestions" I get from my clients (besides the difficulty in figuring out how to buy prints and finding an online price list) is the lightbox navigation. They want the navigation to work like facebook, in that when you click on a lightbox image it should go to the next image - instead of closing the lightbox. Can this be changed? Or at least allow an easy way for pros to customize this behavior?
I find it very easy to navigate the lightbox with the right/left arrow keys. Are you aware that you can do this? Have you told your clients they can use these?
I, too, hope that the customization of the new design allows us to more easily isolate the main image. Sometimes Smugmug style looks like "we have to cram the monitor, omg no negative space allowed!" In the current design I have tried and tried to put more space around the main image, but it always looks ugly and doesn't work right and I think it's just because of the way the page code works, and it's tough to not have any control over the size, spacing, and space around the thumbnail bloc. Again, those comments are for the current design as I have not attempted to customize the new design (if that's even possible yet).
And although I've mentioned it before, I sure hope we get more layouts. After recommending Smugmug to people, after showing them around I have actually had people tell me they will not, because of the severe current limitations in layout. Some people...no, a lot of people...don't want a thumbnail bloc on the left side. They want it somewhere else. Above. Below. To the right. Farther from the main image. Eliminated entirely with only prev/next navigation, with big image centered.
Yet those options are out there...outside Smugmug. When I look at the flexible, versatile, more cleanly minimal layout/theme options available on Squarespace and the very rapidly rising 500px.com, I just get jealous. But for now I stand by Smugmug.
No offense to the extremely hard-working team at Smugmug and if I missed an announcement of mo' better themes please feel free to school me on that.
I second all of this. Ideally smugmug would eventually move to a true template layout such as like what photoshelter or tumblr offer, but I think sites such as 500px are going to be very popular due to their design.
Perhaps it would be easier to customize given the current limitations if there could be a per-gallery setting (and site default) for the grid size of thumbnails (along with the size of those thumbnails), such as 1x6, 3x4, etc, as an additional option to the fit-to-browser-size we have now.
I second all of this. Ideally smugmug would eventually move to a true template layout such as like what photoshelter or tumblr offer, but I think sites such as 500px are going to be very popular due to their design.
Perhaps it would be easier to customize given the current limitations if there could be a per-gallery setting (and site default) for the grid size of thumbnails (along with the size of those thumbnails), such as 1x6, 3x4, etc, as an additional option to the fit-to-browser-size we have now.
Yes, I fully agree with more customizable templates described in that SM feature request. Making SM more modular and less tightly coupled to only one layout option is simply good business and software design. And for this target audience and customer base of photographers/artists design flexibility huge! Why for example should eveyone have to have the same galley view as everyone else on SM - thumbs to the left large primary photo to the right? That's how I know a SM site = they are all the same! There needs to be more layout options within any given theme.
I liked this part in particular:
PhotoShelter as an example of a competitor’s product which is doing something along the lines of what I imagine. They have various standardized ‘widgets’ which users can drop in to their templated markup which provide the basic functions like photo-display, photo-switching, etc.
This goes back to a flexible infrastructure. Put the hooks in for various widgets like a page navigator widget. Do you want dots on a page or numbers? Let the widget chosen determine that vs. some hardcoded static theme which then has to be hacked to change (if even possible). Do you want thumbs on the left or right or maybe not at all along with the primary image (eg - separate gallery thumbs page)? Let the galllery layout widget chosen snap into that theme. So same theme (colors, graphics) with different layout options.
From a business standpoint this makes perfect sense in this ever increasingly competitive area of photo hosting. Why not offer things which are cutting edge in terms of design. Then SM will not only keep current customers happy but gain a larger market share as well vs. becoming that site which ppl are migrating away from as their needs grow. Become a leader in this regard and dare I say some will be willing to pay more for services rendered.
I find the way that the 'full information' EXIF display opens a new browser tab is irksome. Is this necessary? It makes navigation back to the gallery and image of interest more difficult than it need be.
Is there any good reason why this can't be displayed in a popup like the other two forms of EXIF information?
I find it very easy to navigate the lightbox with the right/left arrow keys. Are you aware that you can do this? Have you told your clients they can use these?
The hallmark of a great (or even good) design is one that needs no explanation. The current navigation controls are too hard to find (people - i.e. casual users that have no interest in a "design" other than to get at what they want) have very short attention spans and very little patients - so a good UI must account for that.
I find the way that the 'full information' EXIF display opens a new browser tab is irksome. Is this necessary? It makes navigation back to the gallery and image of interest more difficult than it need be.
Is there any good reason why this can't be displayed in a popup like the other two forms of EXIF information?
Completely agree. Any time the new design takes more clicks than the old one, you know something is going in the wrong direction, imho. No extra clicks anywhere, please!!
Photo Info Popup
The date shown in Photo Info Popup EXIF data is the date modified, not the data taken.
Both are on the extra data page. This needs to be date taken.
"See full info" now requires clicking to the second page to find it. It needs to be on the 1st.
I noticed I can now copy the date and time from the popup now without having to pull up
the full page. Great!!
Completely agree. Any time the new design takes more clicks than the old one, you know something is going in the wrong direction, imho. No extra clicks anywhere, please!!
Yes, that huge new page popup is really annoying and unnecessary for viewing EXIF details.
I just tried out the new design and thought I'd share my feedback. In general, I very much like the new look. The things I'd like to see changed have already been mentioned by other folks, but I wanted to second them:
1) I hate the little dots to navigate through the pages on small galleries. I'd like to have the option to always use the page number navigation that is shown on large galleries.
2) I miss the navigation that allowed me to scroll through images without moving the mouse (the prev/next links that used to be above the main photo in the gallery). That is the primary way I've navigated through a gallery, and watching over other people's shoulders, it seems they use that navigation as well.
3) I also have used gallery descriptions to create "pages" (HTML-only galleries). I believe you've indicated that you'll likely provide another way to get at that functionality, but it's very important to me.
4) I would prefer to have an option to allow anonymous comments.
5) My preference is to retain page and image navigation above the thumbnails/photo rather than below them, to ensure that they're always visible.
I find the way that the 'full information' EXIF display opens a new browser tab is irksome. Is this necessary? It makes navigation back to the gallery and image of interest more difficult than it need be.
Is there any good reason why this can't be displayed in a popup like the other two forms of EXIF information?
Agreed, it should just make the window larger. Or better yet, the first page that comes up should have a little more info, and the 2nd tab should just be the full information. No link to an external page needed.
Agreed, it should just make the window larger. Or better yet, the first page that comes up should have a little more info, and the 2nd tab should just be the full information. No link to an external page needed.
Yes, and in fact that's what it does now in the old version. No need to go backwards or add extra popups.
Yes, and in fact that's what it does now in the old version. No need to go backwards or add extra popups.
nope. its pretty much exactly the same as its always been.
basic info:
detailed info:
clicking the 'Photo Information' text in the old info popup will take you to the external page. The external page is there for folks that want to link directly to the exif. it doesnt show any additional information from whats available in the exif floatie. we just made it easier to find in the new design.
What's happening with the thumbnails in galleries that causes IE9 to warn about only secure content being shown? The first page of thumbnails shows fine, but clicking to the next page (and then even back to the first page) and they don't show. Clicking "Show all content" makes things work fine.
Ray, I too would like to see SM better support video. Specifically, there are three changes that are very important to me:
The autosize has always been buggy. Even if it wasn't, I would like to have the option to specify the default display size for video. I do like the new way for the client to change the size; it is much more intuitive than the old way.
Clients find it confusing when a gallery contains both photos and video. I would like to have a gallery style that provides two tabs; one for photos and one for videos. Each would contain options/actions appropriate for that media. For example, in the photo tab the client could view the photos in a slideshow. In the video tab, the client could set up and view a playlist.
If I want to promote a video via Facebook I currently have to upload to Vimeo or YouTube, and embed from there. I would really like to be able to embed my SM video in Facebook so it would play there, rather than linking back to my site. I suppose this is an issue with the current SM player?
I like the idea that new gallery styles are being worked on. The problem is it appears that only photos are taken into consideration, with a thumbnail mentality. I use SmugMug strictly for video files in password protected galleries for my clients. The thumbnail idea is less useful than a "text view" where I can add in longer filenames and descriptions. These would be able to be sorted by date or alphabetical. Currently SmugMug seems to be relying on a purely visual approach based around thumbnails.
Can we get a style worked on that is more centered around video files and the information related to them. Something that will allow my clients to find their content fast and know if they are on version 1, 2, 3 or 20
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere (I can't find it)... And I can't locate an example in the sneak peak format on my site, but - is video going to remain flash-based? Is there an example link someone could post so I can see how video will look on the new site?
Related - and will video be viewable on Blackberry? Certain friends are dying to know.
Thanks.
The dots for pages bother me too. It's Mystery Meat Navigation, which requires you to hover or click in order to find out what those buttons do.
"Mystery meat navigation (also abbreviated MMN) is a term coined and popularized by author, web designer, and usability analyst Vincent Flanders to describe user interfaces (especially in web sites) in which it is inordinately difficult for users to discern the destinations of navigational hyperlinks—or, in severe cases, even to determine where the hyperlinks are. The typical form of MMN is represented by menus composed of unrevealing icons that are replaced with explicative text only when the mouse cursor hovers over them."
The irony is that Webpagesthatsuck.com uses Smugmug to host at least some of it's images.
If I'm scrolled down some the lightbox view cuts off the top of the photo. Shouldn't the
lightbox page adjust to show the whole photo including the nav bar at the top just like
the current design?
The dots for pages bother me too. It's Mystery Meat Navigation, which requires you to hover or click in order to find out what those buttons do.
But is it really mystery meat anymore if it's a concept used by a product millions of people use? The dots-indicating-pages scheme is a core part of Apple's iOS used by the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. Some elements of the new version of Mac OS X use it too. Similar schemes are sneaking into non-Apple products as well (and i'm not sure if Apple came up with that or just popularized it). In fact most of the icons used in the new Smugmug layout are the same or very similar to standard icons used by iOS. So someone familiar with iOS (millions of people, for better or worse) will know what most of the new Smugmug icons mean without having to mouse over them or needing a label next to them.
So in reading through all the comments in this thread, I've got a sneaky suspicion I could determine who uses iPhones/iPads just by their reaction to the dots and icons.
But is it really mystery meat anymore if it's a concept used by a product millions of people use? The dots-indicating-pages scheme is a core part of Apple's iOS used by the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. Some elements of the new version of Mac OS X use it too. Similar schemes are sneaking into non-Apple products as well (and i'm not sure if Apple came up with that or just popularized it). In fact most of the icons used in the new Smugmug layout are the same or very similar to standard icons used by iOS. So someone familiar with iOS (millions of people, for better or worse) will know what most of the new Smugmug icons mean without having to mouse over them or needing a label next to them.
So in reading through all the comments in this thread, I've got a sneaky suspicion I could determine who uses iPhones/iPads just by their reaction to the dots and icons.
If use/ownership of an iPhone/iPad is required to understand what the links mean, then, yes, it is Mystery Meat. I look at a lot of webpages in the course of a workweek, and Smugmug's new design is the only one I've seen where dots instead of page numbers is the norm. And if Smugmug is designing around iPhone/iPad users at the expense of the rest of the world, well, I think that is a significant mistake.
If use/ownership of an iPhone/iPad is required to understand what the links mean, then, yes, it is Mystery Meat. I look at a lot of webpages in the course of a workweek, and Smugmug's new design is the only one I've seen where dots instead of page numbers is the norm. And if Smugmug is designing around iPhone/iPad users at the expense of the rest of the world, well, I think that is a significant mistake.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that their new design is good or bad, just highlighting where their obvious inspiration is coming from. iOS devices are frequently praised for being intuitive to use without needing prior instruction. But an iPhone is not a webpage, so it's hard to say how well that sort of thing will translate, which I think it why they're showing us this work-in-progress. Now's their chance to see how well (or not well) some of those ideas adapt to a photo gallery website and make adjustments as needed.
I got stumped today, I had a heckuva time figuring out how to feature a picture in a gallery. The option of Gallery at the top of the page was where I looked first. It was not there. It took exasperation for me to try Edit to find the tool. To me that was not very intuitive. It also reminds me that in one area it is called "Feature Photo" and another "Gallery Cover" it should be the same term I think.
Comments
While I like a number of the new changes I would prefer it to stay in pre-alpha for as long as it takes for SmugMug to make significant leaps ahead -> to get it right. This goes way beyond a pretty face lift, but addresses core issues such as making things more flexible for users to design their own unique gallery sites. More customization with fewer user scripts/coding/tweaks needed is Huge! And to get to that level is no small undertaking. We are talking significant structural changes. Extra themes, dots on a page or lack of clutter is simply icing on the cake (lipstick on a pig). Rather the things being talked about go far beyond the current look. So be patient. I actually hope it takes a really Looooong time with many iterations and thoughtful development every step of the way. Working with software as a profession there are usually two options: quick and dirty or the the Right Way which most often is more painful and time consuming. But the later is best in almost every case unless making some emergency fix/patch.
When you go in for surgery or are having major work done on your car do you want them to just get over with really fast or do it right?
Do you ever get upgraded software and think what's really change besides a basic face lift? On the other hand how about a new version that you are truly excited about based on new functionality?
My Smugmug Gallery
know what it means most visitors will never change the size.
What's just as bad is I can't open the size I want without picking it after
open the lightbox.
Again I ask, why the cute circle with an "X" and not just say "close". Most
visitors probaly won't even see it and it is very important viewing videos.
I guess icons/symbols are great for geeks but most visitors have no idea
what they mean. Download and info are good examples. There's plenty of
room to just put in the words.
I hate the page dots, many times I ask a viewer how many thumbs they see and what page they're on so I can coordinate viewing along with them.
Please move that obnoxious buy button to the same line as the gallery title
and slideshow and out of the description box so we can use the full width
of the description box.
My Website index | My Blog
Agree wholeheartedly!
One of the biggest "suggestions" I get from my clients (besides the difficulty in figuring out how to buy prints and finding an online price list) is the lightbox navigation. They want the navigation to work like facebook, in that when you click on a lightbox image it should go to the next image - instead of closing the lightbox. Can this be changed? Or at least allow an easy way for pros to customize this behavior?
Other recommendations for customization:
- Expose Ajax events for us to react to when customizing.
- Server side customization would be the ultimate, but I would imagine that would be too much of an infrastructure change for you guys.
Thanks.
www.ofmemories.com
photographer.sherwinjames.com
I find it very easy to navigate the lightbox with the right/left arrow keys. Are you aware that you can do this? Have you told your clients they can use these?
My Smugmug Gallery
I second all of this. Ideally smugmug would eventually move to a true template layout such as like what photoshelter or tumblr offer, but I think sites such as 500px are going to be very popular due to their design.
Perhaps it would be easier to customize given the current limitations if there could be a per-gallery setting (and site default) for the grid size of thumbnails (along with the size of those thumbnails), such as 1x6, 3x4, etc, as an additional option to the fit-to-browser-size we have now.
Yes, I fully agree with more customizable templates described in that SM feature request. Making SM more modular and less tightly coupled to only one layout option is simply good business and software design. And for this target audience and customer base of photographers/artists design flexibility huge! Why for example should eveyone have to have the same galley view as everyone else on SM - thumbs to the left large primary photo to the right? That's how I know a SM site = they are all the same! There needs to be more layout options within any given theme.
I liked this part in particular:
This goes back to a flexible infrastructure. Put the hooks in for various widgets like a page navigator widget. Do you want dots on a page or numbers? Let the widget chosen determine that vs. some hardcoded static theme which then has to be hacked to change (if even possible). Do you want thumbs on the left or right or maybe not at all along with the primary image (eg - separate gallery thumbs page)? Let the galllery layout widget chosen snap into that theme. So same theme (colors, graphics) with different layout options.
From a business standpoint this makes perfect sense in this ever increasingly competitive area of photo hosting. Why not offer things which are cutting edge in terms of design. Then SM will not only keep current customers happy but gain a larger market share as well vs. becoming that site which ppl are migrating away from as their needs grow. Become a leader in this regard and dare I say some will be willing to pay more for services rendered.
My Smugmug Gallery
Is there any good reason why this can't be displayed in a popup like the other two forms of EXIF information?
The hallmark of a great (or even good) design is one that needs no explanation. The current navigation controls are too hard to find (people - i.e. casual users that have no interest in a "design" other than to get at what they want) have very short attention spans and very little patients - so a good UI must account for that.
www.ofmemories.com
photographer.sherwinjames.com
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
The date shown in Photo Info Popup EXIF data is the date modified, not the data taken.
Both are on the extra data page. This needs to be date taken.
"See full info" now requires clicking to the second page to find it. It needs to be on the 1st.
I noticed I can now copy the date and time from the popup now without having to pull up
the full page. Great!!
Still does not show what Canon lens is used.
My Website index | My Blog
This annoys me, too.
Yes, I also agree. Too difficult to choose sizes.
My Smugmug Gallery
Yes, that huge new page popup is really annoying and unnecessary for viewing EXIF details.
My Smugmug Gallery
1) I hate the little dots to navigate through the pages on small galleries. I'd like to have the option to always use the page number navigation that is shown on large galleries.
2) I miss the navigation that allowed me to scroll through images without moving the mouse (the prev/next links that used to be above the main photo in the gallery). That is the primary way I've navigated through a gallery, and watching over other people's shoulders, it seems they use that navigation as well.
3) I also have used gallery descriptions to create "pages" (HTML-only galleries). I believe you've indicated that you'll likely provide another way to get at that functionality, but it's very important to me.
4) I would prefer to have an option to allow anonymous comments.
5) My preference is to retain page and image navigation above the thumbnails/photo rather than below them, to ensure that they're always visible.
Agreed, it should just make the window larger. Or better yet, the first page that comes up should have a little more info, and the 2nd tab should just be the full information. No link to an external page needed.
agreed as well.
CSS Block To Flow Down To Children Folders/Pages/Galleries
[URL="http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723-smugmug/suggestions/1104583-a-bulk-
gallery-download-button-for-my-visitors"]bulk download option for clients[/URL]
Yes, and in fact that's what it does now in the old version. No need to go backwards or add extra popups.
My Smugmug Gallery
nope. its pretty much exactly the same as its always been.
basic info:
detailed info:
clicking the 'Photo Information' text in the old info popup will take you to the external page. The external page is there for folks that want to link directly to the exif. it doesnt show any additional information from whats available in the exif floatie. we just made it easier to find in the new design.
My Website index | My Blog
Related - and will video be viewable on Blackberry? Certain friends are dying to know.
Thanks.
"Mystery meat navigation (also abbreviated MMN) is a term coined and popularized by author, web designer, and usability analyst Vincent Flanders to describe user interfaces (especially in web sites) in which it is inordinately difficult for users to discern the destinations of navigational hyperlinks—or, in severe cases, even to determine where the hyperlinks are. The typical form of MMN is represented by menus composed of unrevealing icons that are replaced with explicative text only when the mouse cursor hovers over them."
The irony is that Webpagesthatsuck.com uses Smugmug to host at least some of it's images.
lightbox page adjust to show the whole photo including the nav bar at the top just like
the current design?
My Website index | My Blog
But is it really mystery meat anymore if it's a concept used by a product millions of people use? The dots-indicating-pages scheme is a core part of Apple's iOS used by the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. Some elements of the new version of Mac OS X use it too. Similar schemes are sneaking into non-Apple products as well (and i'm not sure if Apple came up with that or just popularized it). In fact most of the icons used in the new Smugmug layout are the same or very similar to standard icons used by iOS. So someone familiar with iOS (millions of people, for better or worse) will know what most of the new Smugmug icons mean without having to mouse over them or needing a label next to them.
So in reading through all the comments in this thread, I've got a sneaky suspicion I could determine who uses iPhones/iPads just by their reaction to the dots and icons.
If use/ownership of an iPhone/iPad is required to understand what the links mean, then, yes, it is Mystery Meat. I look at a lot of webpages in the course of a workweek, and Smugmug's new design is the only one I've seen where dots instead of page numbers is the norm. And if Smugmug is designing around iPhone/iPad users at the expense of the rest of the world, well, I think that is a significant mistake.
It looks promising so far but it's just the galleries and without customization.
http:/www.rodephoto.com
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that their new design is good or bad, just highlighting where their obvious inspiration is coming from. iOS devices are frequently praised for being intuitive to use without needing prior instruction. But an iPhone is not a webpage, so it's hard to say how well that sort of thing will translate, which I think it why they're showing us this work-in-progress. Now's their chance to see how well (or not well) some of those ideas adapt to a photo gallery website and make adjustments as needed.
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