I'll be first in line to sing SM praises if this is a success and I'll also be the guy throwing the rotten fruit and vegetables if it stinks.
Hey, just being honest.
I completely understand the need for SM to do things the way they have chosen. The bottom line though is that since you've chosen to go this route, rather than just "pretty up" the site, then all the promised features and updates need to be grand slams, or your customer base will evaporate.
I want it all to succeed, which is why I'm continuing my relationship with SM and renewing.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
So we made the boldest decision in our 11 years, to pause incremental development (except for back-end infrastructure to give us more uptime and speed) while we focused on a far more ambitious release than we had envisioned when we posted that thread.
So this has been part of the strategy all along. This is the first I hear of it. I thought the update had just snowballed on you. You should've told us man. We put our trust in you, you should've trusted us with this. I would still have been a customer.
So this has been part of the strategy all along. This is the first I hear of it. I thought the update had just snowballed on you. You should've told us man. We put our trust in you, you should've trusted us with this. I would still have been a customer.
Malte
Thanks for checking in Malte...I know you are no longer a SmugMug customer, but hopefully you will change your mind in the future.
I want it all to succeed, which is why I'm continuing my relationship with SM and renewing.
Thanks for continuing to be a part of the SmugMug family Glenn. I do know you will be a part of the rotten fruit throwing. I am building a shield, just in case :hide
Thanks for continuing to be a part of the SmugMug family Glenn. I do know you will be a part of the rotten fruit throwing. I am building a shield, just in case :hide
I promise to throw gently. No 100 mph fastballs!
And of course, my real point about that last post was to say I'm here to stay, good or bad, and that I do support SM.
But I will always give an honest opinion and voice concerns, quibbles, and snide remarks along with the kudos and lauds you all deserve.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
The fact that the new design is the first thing you see on the Smugmug home page is beyond stupid. It's been like that for years now. It's false advertising.
I'm still undecided on whether to move elsewhere or upgrade... though I have just finished downloading every gallery in anticipation of seeing nothing come renewal in July, so will make a bold decision then. Everything has been handled quite poorly, so you could hardly blame me If I jump ship.
Actually this new update thread leads me to believe we won't see this release in 2013, and you're buttering us up for another year or so.
On a slightly unrelated point, I'm going to be working on a site redesign over the next couple of months - I'm guessing its fair to say that we're unlikely to see a grand unveiling before summer? I appreciate no timescales want to be disclosed, just that if it is by some chance around the corner, I might as well hold off rather than putting in the hours getting things working then having to tweak it for the shiny new interface....
I'll be first in line to sing SM praises if this is a success and I'll also be the guy throwing the rotten fruit and vegetables if it stinks.
Hey, just being honest.
I completely understand the need for SM to do things the way they have chosen. The bottom line though is that since you've chosen to go this route, rather than just "pretty up" the site, then all the promised features and updates need to be grand slams, or your customer base will evaporate.
I want it all to succeed, which is why I'm continuing my relationship with SM and renewing.
Thank you, McQ, I wouldn't expect anything less. There's crazy adrenaline at SmugMug because so much is at stake. It isn't just about our customers either, but the engineers and designers who joined us just to work on this.
I know unemployment is high, but not for the best engineers and designers. There is crazy competition to get them at Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter and we have to have something very interesting for them to work on or they just go to one of those companies or a startup. They often ask the question, why should I be interested in working here when I can go do something really cool at Apple? So we have to put them under NDA and do a demo. So now that there are a number of them that are here just to work on this, we better get it right.
Having said that, I know very well by watching our own employees that we have several who passionately hate the iPhone and another group that passionately hates Android phones. It's inevitable that we'll see lots of haters on the forums just like Apple has, but hopefully were doing this well enough that the people who love it will really love it.
Thanks for the update... I actually found this thread after taking a very serious look at Squarespace. I must say it's very impressive! I thought I'd look into the status of the Smugmug update before doing anything.
My preference is to stay at Smugmug, as I've managed to get my site looking 99% of the way I want it with a matching blog with zero coding experience whatsoever. I really don't want to change everything over, but the swap does look really easy to do and Squarespace looks so easy to use, not that Smugmug isn't.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... "Wow me Smugmug! Make this wait worthwhile!"
Thank you, McQ, I wouldn't expect anything less. There's crazy adrenaline at SmugMug because so much is at stake. It isn't just about our customers either, but the engineers and designers who joined us just to work on this.
I know unemployment is high, but not for the best engineers and designers. There is crazy competition to get them at Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter and we have to have something very interesting for them to work on or they just go to one of those companies or a startup. They often ask the question, why should I be interested in working here when I can go do something really cool at Apple? So we have to put them under NDA and do a demo. So now that there are a number of them that are here just to work on this, we better get it right.
Having said that, I know very well by watching our own employees that we have several who passionately hate the iPhone and another group that passionately hates Android phones. It's inevitable that we'll see lots of haters on the forums just like Apple has, but hopefully were doing this well enough that the people who love it will really love it.
I completely get it. Took me a while, but I understand your situation. I really do believe in SM and wish only the best for everyone who has so much at stake here (you, your associates and employees, etc.). I know you guys have put it all on the line here.
In contrast, I have virtually nothing at stake, other than my own SM site, which is small beans in comparison.
Hey, I only wish I had some tangible skill to offer.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
As a selling Pro, I appreciate the update. I can't wait to see the new design and excitement it will bring. I have sold over 10,000 prints with SmugMug and look forward to 20,000 and beyond. SmugMug helped me grow my business by providing fantastic customer support, which makes me look like a hero to my customers. Thanks for all your hard work and I hope to see the new and improved SmugMug design soon.
As a selling Pro, I appreciate the update. I can't wait to see the new design and excitement it will bring. I have sold over 10,000 prints with SmugMug and look forward to 20,000 and beyond. SmugMug helped me grow my business by providing fantastic customer support, which makes me look like a hero to my customers. Thanks for all your hard work and I hope to see the new and improved SmugMug design soon.
Rich, I'm making my jealous face right now.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
Thanks for your post
Thank you for your post. I love SmugMug, and I really wish I knew anything about code, so I could get a gorgeous site like some I have seen. I love the fact that you can customize your individual site, so that it is not the same as the next person. There is another company heavily marketing their hosting service right now, and I extolled the virtues of SmugMug versus (them). When they first started marketing, I immediately thought of SmugMug. (and they don't even have print fullfillment) Anyways just wanted to let you know I did not know any updates were in the works, now that I have found out, I am ecstatic and I had no plans to leave to begin with, but this is icing on the cake for me. The customer service I have received when I had to chat with Heroes was excellent and trust me in the beginning, there were a lot of them. Thanks for working hard to give us an outstanding hosting site. It is greatly appreciated.
As a selling Pro, I appreciate the update. I can't wait to see the new design and excitement it will bring. I have sold over 10,000 prints with SmugMug and look forward to 20,000 and beyond. SmugMug helped me grow my business by providing fantastic customer support, which makes me look like a hero to my customers. Thanks for all your hard work and I hope to see the new and improved SmugMug design soon.
10,000 Prints?! Wow! That's alot! I don't even think I have sold 10 Congratulations on your successful business and thank you for the kind words. We look forward to helping you sell those 20,000 prints:D
Thank you for your post. I love SmugMug, and I really wish I knew anything about code, so I could get a gorgeous site like some I have seen. I love the fact that you can customize your individual site, so that it is not the same as the next person. There is another company heavily marketing their hosting service right now, and I extolled the virtues of SmugMug versus (them). When they first started marketing, I immediately thought of SmugMug. (and they don't even have print fullfillment) Anyways just wanted to let you know I did not know any updates were in the works, now that I have found out, I am ecstatic and I had no plans to leave to begin with, but this is icing on the cake for me. The customer service I have received when I had to chat with Heroes was excellent and trust me in the beginning, there were a lot of them. Thanks for working hard to give us an outstanding hosting site. It is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the update.
Thanks Baldy for giving us a bit more insight into the development of SM's new look and also thanks to Michael for convincing Baldy that we needed an update!
I'm very excited for the big rollout, whenever it happens (but hopefully soon!)
James Geiger M. Ed.
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
So do I have to be a Pro user to get a 'nice warm squishy, hang in there' reply?
I may be a basic customer, but I'm still a customer..
Are you referring to a phone call from Baldy? No, not at all. Baldy does not base who he contacts on the level of subscription they have. He does however, look over your photography to get a better understanding of what you like to shoot and how you use SmugMug. I think you will hear from anyone who has ever talked to Baldy, he is the most down to Earth head of a company you will ever meet. I can 100% back this, working closely with him over the last 6 months.
Are you referring to a phone call from Baldy? No, not at all. Baldy does not base who he contacts on the level of subscription they have. He does however, look over your photography to get a better understanding of what you like to shoot and how you use SmugMug. I think you will hear from anyone who has ever talked to Baldy, he is the most down to Earth head of a company you will ever meet. I can 100% back this, working closely with him over the last 6 months.
We even have many non SmugMug customers on this forum, especially in the photography related threads. I love talking to everyone, especially if it is all about our common passion, photography!
Dazzle and Passion
As one of the earliest SmugMug subscribers (10 years now I believe), I am loyal to a fault and have evangelized countless friends and family to become SmugMug customers.
I do not question whether I will be yanking my account and moving my humble family photo site elsewhere. I am here to stay.
I am proud to count Baldy and family as personal friends. Their passion for SmugMug borders on obsession, so I have no doubt that the long-awaited overhaul will be dazzling when we finally get our hands on it.
Now here's the "but". I must admit some concern over the cumulative effect on both the installed base and recruitment of new customers when incremental improvements are suspended for 2+ years while waiting to be dazzled. I also work in software, and two years is an eternity in this industry. Frankly, I cannot think of any other piece of software that could survive this much downtime without being branded "legacy", "obsolete" or even "irrelevant".
The pardon granted to SmugMug during this pause can be credited to it's subscription model and the many pro photographers whose success is tied to SmugMug's. After making the enormous effort to create and customize a site and upload thousands of photos, that investment becomes hard to abandon (a brilliantly sticky business model). But that stickiness is a two-edged sword. Once a customer is lost, it becomes very difficult to lure them back (even with tons of dazzle).
Even for this SmugMug loyalist, some disenchantment has crept into my psyche during the lull. Customization of my SmugMug site used to be an ongoing hobby for me. I was a frequent visitor to Dgrin, always looking for the latest new shiny thing that I might integrate. Now my visits to Dgrin are quite rare. My SmugMug addiction has been sidelined for a very long time during the wait, and my site is feeling more stale with each passing day. Not good.
In my mind, the word "passion" is synonymous with SmugMug - passionate founders, passionate developers and passionate customers. But passion can fade with neglect as attention turns elsewhere. Bring on the dazzle (and soon). We all want to feel the passion again.
As one of the earliest SmugMug subscribers (10 years now I believe), I am loyal to a fault and have evangelized countless friends and family to become SmugMug customers.
I do not question whether I will be yanking my account and moving my humble family photo site elsewhere. I am here to stay.
I am proud to count Baldy and family as personal friends. Their passion for SmugMug borders on obsession, so I have no doubt that the long-awaited overhaul will be dazzling when we finally get our hands on it.
Now here's the "but". I must admit some concern over the cumulative effect on both the installed base and recruitment of new customers when incremental improvements are suspended for 2+ years while waiting to be dazzled. I also work in software, and two years is an eternity in this industry. Frankly, I cannot think of any other piece of software that could survive this much downtime without being branded "legacy", "obsolete" or even "irrelevant".
The pardon granted to SmugMug during this pause can be credited to it's subscription model and the many pro photographers whose success is tied to SmugMug's. After making the enormous effort to create and customize a site and upload thousands of photos, that investment becomes hard to abandon (a brilliantly sticky business model). But that stickiness is a two-edged sword. Once a customer is lost, it becomes very difficult to lure them back (even with tons of dazzle).
Even for this SmugMug loyalist, some disenchantment has crept into my psyche during the lull. Customization of my SmugMug site used to be an ongoing hobby for me. I was a frequent visitor to Dgrin, always looking for the latest new shiny thing that I might integrate. Now my visits to Dgrin are quite rare. My SmugMug addiction has been sidelined for a very long time during the wait, and my site is feeling more stale with each passing day. Not good.
In my mind, the word "passion" is synonymous with SmugMug - passionate founders, passionate developers and passionate customers. But passion can fade with neglect as attention turns elsewhere. Bring on the dazzle (and soon). We all want to feel the passion again.
I would second this. I've been a SmugMug customer a few years now and have a few thousands of pictures (mostly sports) on my site. I know I'm not the biggest customers SM has, and could be one of the smaller ones in sales but it is bad when you go 2 years without any updates. I've made comments on the Uservoice a couple of times and one in particular item got a response from Anne 21 months ago saying something like "hope we can add this feature and win you back soon" and that feature hasn't been discussed or even put in a review status since. But, yet they were able to add new labs and increase the charge drastically for the customers. I'm ok with that, but sooner or later if some of the features us small photographers want are not added, you will lose more than just a couple of the $300 customers that help you keep doing this.
I know Baldy stated that he didn't want to put a timeline in writing do to trying to hit a moving target and I completely understand that as a programmer myself. But, I agree with one of the other comments who mentioned that better practice would have been to have 2 teams. One smaller team who kept adding features to the current system and one bigger team doing the revamp. This way, us customers wouldn't feel like we weren't getting anything for our $$$. One of the big changes I want is the ability to set expiration dates on Galleries. I would love if the gallery would have the expiration date on the layout somewhere that says "This gallery will expire on X." Being a programmer, and knowing you must have a common template to be able to make the changes you already have, it can't be hard to add a DB field for "exp_date" and then have an if statement on the page that says:
IF (exp_date <= "today - 7") echo "This gallery will close on X which is less than a week away."
ELSEIF (exp_date < exp_date) echo "This gallery will close on X."
ELSE echo "This gallery is closed, you will need to contact the photographer (contact link/info) to see how to order pictures from this gallery."
It isn't that hard to add something as simple as that to show people you are still working to make our sites better than just stopping for 2 years.
I've vented now, and feel a little better. I'm not going to run yet, but I believe more people will run if there isn't something released in the next couple of months. Even if you have to pull some developers off the new design and put them on some updates just to make customers happy DO IT!
Now here's the "but". I must admit some concern over the cumulative effect on both the installed base and recruitment of new customers when incremental improvements are suspended for 2+ years while waiting to be dazzled. I also work in software, and two years is an eternity in this industry. Frankly, I cannot think of any other piece of software that could survive this much downtime without being branded "legacy", "obsolete" or even "irrelevant".
The pardon granted to SmugMug during this pause can be credited to it's subscription model and the many pro photographers whose success is tied to SmugMug's. After making the enormous effort to create and customize a site and upload thousands of photos, that investment becomes hard to abandon (a brilliantly sticky business model). But that stickiness is a two-edged sword. Once a customer is lost, it becomes very difficult to lure them back (even with tons of dazzle).
Even for this SmugMug loyalist, some disenchantment has crept into my psyche during the lull. Customization of my SmugMug site used to be an ongoing hobby for me. I was a frequent visitor to Dgrin, always looking for the latest new shiny thing that I might integrate. Now my visits to Dgrin are quite rare. My SmugMug addiction has been sidelined for a very long time during the wait, and my site is feeling more stale with each passing day. Not good.
In my mind, the word "passion" is synonymous with SmugMug - passionate founders, passionate developers and passionate customers. But passion can fade with neglect as attention turns elsewhere. Bring on the dazzle (and soon). We all want to feel the passion again.
This post captured my feelings quite well. I've been a customers for several years and have sold thousands of photos via SmugMug (originally under a different account and now with current). I was irked by the price increase but understand we live in a world of you get what you pay for. Thus, I swallowed and looked forward to improvements. Then nothing happened. As my business grew things like not having ability to do multi-level sub-categories has become near maddening. The horrendous shopping experience for customers using mobile has hurt my sales opportunities. The overall shopping experience continues to be a big gripe of my customers.
While my annual renewal came up in April and my level of satisfaction fallen so low, I did an exhaustive search on alternatives. Sadly for me, happily for Smug, there were no good viable alternatives with Smug competitors. The only real alternative is to hire a firm to build a customer site based on drop in e-commerce solutions. I spec'd this out and even calling in some favors the best price I could negotiate was $4,500 for website and iOS app (market rate was closer to $10K). After thinking long and hard, I decided spending $6K on 300mm Prime Lens meant another $5K on website just wasn't in the cards this Spring. Thus I stayed. If a competitor had mobile app for my customers and nested sub-categories I would be gone. If I had extra $5K in my budget, I would have been gone. Not because I haven't been thrilled by what Smug offered me in years past but the limitations they currently force me to suffer.
Lastly, while I very much appreciate being kept informed, Baldy's post here pretty much rubbed salt in the wounds. The summary is, we raised prices to make super, great, fabulous new thing that we can't show you, can't tell you when till be available but trust us and just blame the lawyers. Seriously? This was not the message last fall. Then it was we need to raise prices to keep bringing you improvements, then nothing at all. You would do better in my book to say, "We believe we offer the best customer value proposition in the market today" period. This message only raises expectations, reminds me how you have failed in the last year and reduces my passion for Smug.
The world is moving toward mobile, more and more digital downloads, and customer customized shopping experiences. If Smug makes these advances in the next months or year, then I will regain my passion and be a huge advocate. If we only get more unfulfilled promises and blaming of lawyers, then it will be time to move on. My fingers are crossed.
Just an average long time paying customer
I'm just a customer, who pays the Pro account (in hopes of making sales), I'm not in the know, I'm not famous, I don't have my images on any famous website or magazine...I'm just a customer.
I put this screenshot image in a directory that I see at least once a week, I put it there August 31 2012.
I first started with SM because it felt like family, but with all growth comes a struggle to retain the common client...that's me. I know about dgrin but I would guess many SM customers have never been to the forums and I can say I only come where there is a problem and today was the first day I have been here in many months. My intent was to post a new article on the growing annoying feeling I get when you get up each day and read about
Better Google+ photos
Better 500px photos
Better Flickr photos
Changes to Adobe Revel
(even some would say better Facebook photos but I won't say that)
Then I check on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ for updates from SM and often I get the new guy holding his expense glass up in the air and it looks to me as if that's the new attitude the middle glass finger (I know that not fair as I don't know the man, just expressing what it looks like to me) instead of seeing say one of the canines from the office or real people doing a real job at Smugmug and I wonder has Smugmug gone to the elite class of photographers? are the mainstream average customers just a by product that can either stay or go like a gnat at a fish fry.
I'm paid up until December and I pride my stupid Tennessee loyalty for staying this long, but I hope to get rewarded for staying with SM as I like to think there is still a tech company that values me...a simple paying customer.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited May 23, 2013
Thanks, everyone. We feel your pain because we're SmugMug users too and I want my site to be sexy and cool.
Someone mentioned Squarespace, and someone else Flickr. I'm actually very jealous of what they were able to do and sometimes wonder where we'd be now if we had taken their approaches, because we could have shipped long ago.
In Squarespace's case, they made a decision to greenfield Squarespace 6. In other words, if you were a version 1-5 user, you registered for a new account and started over on version 6. That would have saved us a year, I'd guess, but the feedback we got was it was important to provide a migration path for settings, content, organization, sales reports, etc.--a much larger undertaking.
I think about this every time one of our current users loses patience and tells us so. And I ask the question to everyone we take under NDA and demo to, but they all say no greenfielding. Take care of your existing loyal customers first before you charge off seeking new ones and leave us in the cold.
And for Flickr, they were able to just spring the new design on their users with no opt-in. They've never offered much customization, and with this change they went live with a banner on your site that was someone else's photo as a placeholder. I'm not knocking either company because they're both great sites that we have a lot of respect for. We just didn't think that for our users we could spring it on you with no time to get familiar with it and change your customization, or greenfield it.
I hope this helps and isn't just me being defensive and giving excuses. We'll all find out when we launch....
Then I check on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ for updates from SM and often I get the new guy holding his expense glass up in the air and it looks to me as if that's the new attitude the middle glass finger (I know that not fair as I don't know the man, just expressing what it looks like to me) instead of seeing say one of the canines from the office or real people doing a real job at Smugmug and I wonder has Smugmug gone to the elite class of photographers? are the mainstream average customers just a by product that can either stay or go like a gnat at a fish fry.
.
That would be me
I am truly sorry you feel that way, but I assure you that their is no attitude or "Middle Glass Finger". I wish that was my glass, but sadly, I am often using big rental glass, because, I don't have much in the way of glass . From a personal perspective, it is a tough position for me to convey who I am here. In person, I am the guy who is always on photowalks and photo adventures...fun, carefree and always smiling. Unfortunately, it is not easy to show that side of me here on dgrin.
I was a loyal SmugMug Pro for 5 years before I got hired, and believe me, my excitement for the future of SmugMug is through the roof.
If you are ever in the San Francisco Bay Area, please let me know!
Comments
I'll be first in line to sing SM praises if this is a success and I'll also be the guy throwing the rotten fruit and vegetables if it stinks.
Hey, just being honest.
I completely understand the need for SM to do things the way they have chosen. The bottom line though is that since you've chosen to go this route, rather than just "pretty up" the site, then all the promised features and updates need to be grand slams, or your customer base will evaporate.
I want it all to succeed, which is why I'm continuing my relationship with SM and renewing.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
So this has been part of the strategy all along. This is the first I hear of it. I thought the update had just snowballed on you. You should've told us man. We put our trust in you, you should've trusted us with this. I would still have been a customer.
Malte
Thanks for checking in Malte...I know you are no longer a SmugMug customer, but hopefully you will change your mind in the future.
Michael
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Thanks for continuing to be a part of the SmugMug family Glenn. I do know you will be a part of the rotten fruit throwing. I am building a shield, just in case :hide
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I promise to throw gently. No 100 mph fastballs!
And of course, my real point about that last post was to say I'm here to stay, good or bad, and that I do support SM.
But I will always give an honest opinion and voice concerns, quibbles, and snide remarks along with the kudos and lauds you all deserve.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
I'm still undecided on whether to move elsewhere or upgrade... though I have just finished downloading every gallery in anticipation of seeing nothing come renewal in July, so will make a bold decision then. Everything has been handled quite poorly, so you could hardly blame me If I jump ship.
Actually this new update thread leads me to believe we won't see this release in 2013, and you're buttering us up for another year or so.
Smugmug, prove me wrong.
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
I know unemployment is high, but not for the best engineers and designers. There is crazy competition to get them at Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter and we have to have something very interesting for them to work on or they just go to one of those companies or a startup. They often ask the question, why should I be interested in working here when I can go do something really cool at Apple? So we have to put them under NDA and do a demo. So now that there are a number of them that are here just to work on this, we better get it right.
Having said that, I know very well by watching our own employees that we have several who passionately hate the iPhone and another group that passionately hates Android phones. It's inevitable that we'll see lots of haters on the forums just like Apple has, but hopefully were doing this well enough that the people who love it will really love it.
My preference is to stay at Smugmug, as I've managed to get my site looking 99% of the way I want it with a matching blog with zero coding experience whatsoever. I really don't want to change everything over, but the swap does look really easy to do and Squarespace looks so easy to use, not that Smugmug isn't.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... "Wow me Smugmug! Make this wait worthwhile!"
I completely get it. Took me a while, but I understand your situation. I really do believe in SM and wish only the best for everyone who has so much at stake here (you, your associates and employees, etc.). I know you guys have put it all on the line here.
In contrast, I have virtually nothing at stake, other than my own SM site, which is small beans in comparison.
Hey, I only wish I had some tangible skill to offer.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
www.richknechtphotography.com
Rich, I'm making my jealous face right now.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
Thank you for your post. I love SmugMug, and I really wish I knew anything about code, so I could get a gorgeous site like some I have seen. I love the fact that you can customize your individual site, so that it is not the same as the next person. There is another company heavily marketing their hosting service right now, and I extolled the virtues of SmugMug versus (them). When they first started marketing, I immediately thought of SmugMug. (and they don't even have print fullfillment) Anyways just wanted to let you know I did not know any updates were in the works, now that I have found out, I am ecstatic and I had no plans to leave to begin with, but this is icing on the cake for me. The customer service I have received when I had to chat with Heroes was excellent and trust me in the beginning, there were a lot of them. Thanks for working hard to give us an outstanding hosting site. It is greatly appreciated.
www.dawnyalynnphotography.smugmug.com
10,000 Prints?! Wow! That's alot! I don't even think I have sold 10
Michael
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Seriously Glenn....ME TOO.
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Thank you for the kind words Dawn! Glad to hear that you are as excited for the future as all of us here at SmugMug are.
Michael
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Thanks Baldy for giving us a bit more insight into the development of SM's new look and also thanks to Michael for convincing Baldy that we needed an update!
I'm very excited for the big rollout, whenever it happens (but hopefully soon!)
ERIC SCOTT PHOTOGRAPHY
commercial and architectural imagery
www.ericscottphotography.com
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
I may be a basic customer, but I'm still a customer..
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
Are you referring to a phone call from Baldy? No, not at all. Baldy does not base who he contacts on the level of subscription they have. He does however, look over your photography to get a better understanding of what you like to shoot and how you use SmugMug. I think you will hear from anyone who has ever talked to Baldy, he is the most down to Earth head of a company you will ever meet. I can 100% back this, working closely with him over the last 6 months.
Michael
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I simply meant I forum reply from you
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
Nope, I reply to everyone!
We even have many non SmugMug customers on this forum, especially in the photography related threads. I love talking to everyone, especially if it is all about our common passion, photography!
Michael
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This news to celebrate?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130501/09000922908/when-startups-need-more-lawyers-than-employees.shtml
/// www.affinityseattle.com /// <-yes, you want to check that out.
Sean,
Great article. Thanks for sharing!
Michael
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As one of the earliest SmugMug subscribers (10 years now I believe), I am loyal to a fault and have evangelized countless friends and family to become SmugMug customers.
I do not question whether I will be yanking my account and moving my humble family photo site elsewhere. I am here to stay.
I am proud to count Baldy and family as personal friends. Their passion for SmugMug borders on obsession, so I have no doubt that the long-awaited overhaul will be dazzling when we finally get our hands on it.
Now here's the "but". I must admit some concern over the cumulative effect on both the installed base and recruitment of new customers when incremental improvements are suspended for 2+ years while waiting to be dazzled. I also work in software, and two years is an eternity in this industry. Frankly, I cannot think of any other piece of software that could survive this much downtime without being branded "legacy", "obsolete" or even "irrelevant".
The pardon granted to SmugMug during this pause can be credited to it's subscription model and the many pro photographers whose success is tied to SmugMug's. After making the enormous effort to create and customize a site and upload thousands of photos, that investment becomes hard to abandon (a brilliantly sticky business model). But that stickiness is a two-edged sword. Once a customer is lost, it becomes very difficult to lure them back (even with tons of dazzle).
Even for this SmugMug loyalist, some disenchantment has crept into my psyche during the lull. Customization of my SmugMug site used to be an ongoing hobby for me. I was a frequent visitor to Dgrin, always looking for the latest new shiny thing that I might integrate. Now my visits to Dgrin are quite rare. My SmugMug addiction has been sidelined for a very long time during the wait, and my site is feeling more stale with each passing day. Not good.
In my mind, the word "passion" is synonymous with SmugMug - passionate founders, passionate developers and passionate customers. But passion can fade with neglect as attention turns elsewhere. Bring on the dazzle (and soon). We all want to feel the passion again.
I would second this. I've been a SmugMug customer a few years now and have a few thousands of pictures (mostly sports) on my site. I know I'm not the biggest customers SM has, and could be one of the smaller ones in sales but it is bad when you go 2 years without any updates. I've made comments on the Uservoice a couple of times and one in particular item got a response from Anne 21 months ago saying something like "hope we can add this feature and win you back soon" and that feature hasn't been discussed or even put in a review status since. But, yet they were able to add new labs and increase the charge drastically for the customers. I'm ok with that, but sooner or later if some of the features us small photographers want are not added, you will lose more than just a couple of the $300 customers that help you keep doing this.
I know Baldy stated that he didn't want to put a timeline in writing do to trying to hit a moving target and I completely understand that as a programmer myself. But, I agree with one of the other comments who mentioned that better practice would have been to have 2 teams. One smaller team who kept adding features to the current system and one bigger team doing the revamp. This way, us customers wouldn't feel like we weren't getting anything for our $$$. One of the big changes I want is the ability to set expiration dates on Galleries. I would love if the gallery would have the expiration date on the layout somewhere that says "This gallery will expire on X." Being a programmer, and knowing you must have a common template to be able to make the changes you already have, it can't be hard to add a DB field for "exp_date" and then have an if statement on the page that says:
IF (exp_date <= "today - 7") echo "This gallery will close on X which is less than a week away."
ELSEIF (exp_date < exp_date) echo "This gallery will close on X."
ELSE echo "This gallery is closed, you will need to contact the photographer (contact link/info) to see how to order pictures from this gallery."
It isn't that hard to add something as simple as that to show people you are still working to make our sites better than just stopping for 2 years.
I've vented now, and feel a little better. I'm not going to run yet, but I believe more people will run if there isn't something released in the next couple of months. Even if you have to pull some developers off the new design and put them on some updates just to make customers happy DO IT!
This post captured my feelings quite well. I've been a customers for several years and have sold thousands of photos via SmugMug (originally under a different account and now with current). I was irked by the price increase but understand we live in a world of you get what you pay for. Thus, I swallowed and looked forward to improvements. Then nothing happened. As my business grew things like not having ability to do multi-level sub-categories has become near maddening. The horrendous shopping experience for customers using mobile has hurt my sales opportunities. The overall shopping experience continues to be a big gripe of my customers.
While my annual renewal came up in April and my level of satisfaction fallen so low, I did an exhaustive search on alternatives. Sadly for me, happily for Smug, there were no good viable alternatives with Smug competitors. The only real alternative is to hire a firm to build a customer site based on drop in e-commerce solutions. I spec'd this out and even calling in some favors the best price I could negotiate was $4,500 for website and iOS app (market rate was closer to $10K). After thinking long and hard, I decided spending $6K on 300mm Prime Lens meant another $5K on website just wasn't in the cards this Spring. Thus I stayed. If a competitor had mobile app for my customers and nested sub-categories I would be gone. If I had extra $5K in my budget, I would have been gone. Not because I haven't been thrilled by what Smug offered me in years past but the limitations they currently force me to suffer.
Lastly, while I very much appreciate being kept informed, Baldy's post here pretty much rubbed salt in the wounds. The summary is, we raised prices to make super, great, fabulous new thing that we can't show you, can't tell you when till be available but trust us and just blame the lawyers. Seriously? This was not the message last fall. Then it was we need to raise prices to keep bringing you improvements, then nothing at all. You would do better in my book to say, "We believe we offer the best customer value proposition in the market today" period. This message only raises expectations, reminds me how you have failed in the last year and reduces my passion for Smug.
The world is moving toward mobile, more and more digital downloads, and customer customized shopping experiences. If Smug makes these advances in the next months or year, then I will regain my passion and be a huge advocate. If we only get more unfulfilled promises and blaming of lawyers, then it will be time to move on. My fingers are crossed.
I'm just a customer, who pays the Pro account (in hopes of making sales), I'm not in the know, I'm not famous, I don't have my images on any famous website or magazine...I'm just a customer.
I put this screenshot image in a directory that I see at least once a week, I put it there August 31 2012.
I first started with SM because it felt like family, but with all growth comes a struggle to retain the common client...that's me. I know about dgrin but I would guess many SM customers have never been to the forums and I can say I only come where there is a problem and today was the first day I have been here in many months. My intent was to post a new article on the growing annoying feeling I get when you get up each day and read about
Better Google+ photos
Better 500px photos
Better Flickr photos
Changes to Adobe Revel
(even some would say better Facebook photos but I won't say that)
Then I check on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ for updates from SM and often I get the new guy holding his expense glass up in the air and it looks to me as if that's the new attitude the middle glass finger (I know that not fair as I don't know the man, just expressing what it looks like to me) instead of seeing say one of the canines from the office or real people doing a real job at Smugmug and I wonder has Smugmug gone to the elite class of photographers? are the mainstream average customers just a by product that can either stay or go like a gnat at a fish fry.
I'm paid up until December and I pride my stupid Tennessee loyalty for staying this long, but I hope to get rewarded for staying with SM as I like to think there is still a tech company that values me...a simple paying customer.
thanks for letting me rant..
Fuji X shooter
Thoughts and Images
Someone mentioned Squarespace, and someone else Flickr. I'm actually very jealous of what they were able to do and sometimes wonder where we'd be now if we had taken their approaches, because we could have shipped long ago.
In Squarespace's case, they made a decision to greenfield Squarespace 6. In other words, if you were a version 1-5 user, you registered for a new account and started over on version 6. That would have saved us a year, I'd guess, but the feedback we got was it was important to provide a migration path for settings, content, organization, sales reports, etc.--a much larger undertaking.
I think about this every time one of our current users loses patience and tells us so. And I ask the question to everyone we take under NDA and demo to, but they all say no greenfielding. Take care of your existing loyal customers first before you charge off seeking new ones and leave us in the cold.
And for Flickr, they were able to just spring the new design on their users with no opt-in. They've never offered much customization, and with this change they went live with a banner on your site that was someone else's photo as a placeholder. I'm not knocking either company because they're both great sites that we have a lot of respect for. We just didn't think that for our users we could spring it on you with no time to get familiar with it and change your customization, or greenfield it.
I hope this helps and isn't just me being defensive and giving excuses. We'll all find out when we launch....
Thanks,
Baldy
That would be me
I am truly sorry you feel that way, but I assure you that their is no attitude or "Middle Glass Finger". I wish that was my glass, but sadly, I am often using big rental glass, because, I don't have much in the way of glass . From a personal perspective, it is a tough position for me to convey who I am here. In person, I am the guy who is always on photowalks and photo adventures...fun, carefree and always smiling. Unfortunately, it is not easy to show that side of me here on dgrin.
I was a loyal SmugMug Pro for 5 years before I got hired, and believe me, my excitement for the future of SmugMug is through the roof.
If you are ever in the San Francisco Bay Area, please let me know!
Michael
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