I am not looking for a cheaper solution but for a best solution at the right price. To me, Paying $29 per gallery per year is not a big deal because it is part of the cost I figure into my prices. So I actually make money from my $29 investment. In top of that I am looking into the buzz the client experience creates and the viral possibilities it has.
I used to pay $1,200 a year for Pictage when I thought it was the right solution for my business and I was making close to $10k a year in print sales. Once it did not produce for me it was time to change and it was Smugmug what worked best for me. SM raised their prices without offering anything new for the added cost and it was time to start evaluating other solutions.
And It hasn't replace discs for me yet. I still give it because it is something tangible that I can use to promote my brand.
To be honest, I do not pay much attention to what some people say in their facebook page.
My feedback is 100% that my client love the presentation. No confusion at all. I have loaded all my 2013 weddings and engagements in both Smugmug and Pass.
That they fixed the print price does not bother me. It is around what I have it for reasons I will explain below. And some people loose sight that we are talking of gift prints. Those who think that can sell a 4x6 print in $15 don't need Pass. For the rest of all, Pass may be the right option. Yes, I would love to be able to set my prices, but I don't mind the prices they have set.
That said, Pass is a different mindset from other solutions like Pictage, Smugmug, etc.
If you are focus on selling prints online, then Pass is not an option for you. I am of the believe that the sale of 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 is really minimum for weddings so I am more for the client experience and viral marketing than actual prints.
The bottom line your decision need to be based in what work best for your business model and not in any loyalty that we may think we owe a company because we have used it for many years of because the people are nice.
Smugmug people are very nice and I am sure they are working hard to provide what they believe is the best solution they can think of. Once they unveil their new SM I will evaluate it and decide if it works for me or not. My quest is for the right solution for my business at the right price.
DawnyaLynn, let me ask you why do you say Smugmug is best for photographers?
Each solution has it pros and cons. None is perfect. But Smugmug does not offer me anything that their competition offers also.
The only things that got me to switch to Smugmug was that I could show larger images (client experience) and the low cost.
The low cost is gone and they no longer offer the best client experience. So I cannot agree with you that Smugmug is the best for photographers.
The fact is that Smugmug was created to compete with Flicker and not for pro photographers. What they have been doing is adding stuff little by little, just enough to keep pros interested. Hey, you could not ask much for $150 a year.
If Smugmug were a true pro solution we would have had a mobile app for our clients. We do not. We would have multiple folders so our clients could choose their album picks instead of having to use "favorites" for that. We have been asking that for years and I have given up. We have been asking to be able to upload an entire categorized event at one time and we still don't have that. To be honest, if Pictage were that expensive I would have saty with them as their new user interface is much better than anything out there. But they made the same mistake Smugmug is making now... they made their user base wait to long.
I've followed PASS for a while and to be honest, I don't get it. I'm not a wedding photographer and maybe that's why. But to me, PASS seems to be be more about spreading the word than sales and service. Sharing and the social aspect of photography come through on almost every page (the "Who is PASS for" says "If you love sharing your photos PASS is for you!" which comes across as a $29 a year Facebook-at least to me. I was also trying to figure out how I would benefit as a client-all I got was that I'd get a mobile app and it would be cool and I could share with my friends. That app looks like a scrolling Picstitch-can you even customize your look and feel so it's representative of your brand or are you stuck with theirs?
PASS talks a lot about freeing the photographer to focus on service and pricing on the front end instead of selling on the back end. Most wedding photographers I know already do that so PASS is nothing really ground breaking. Plus most photographers I know are offering their clients services after their event.
Maybe it would make more sense if I could see a real gallery but from all of what's on the front page, there are plenty of options that are far superior.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I've followed PASS for a while and to be honest, I don't get it. I'm not a wedding photographer and maybe that's why. But to me, PASS seems to be be more about spreading the word than sales and service. Sharing and the social aspect of photography come through on almost every page (the "Who is PASS for" says "If you love sharing your photos PASS is for you!" which comes across as a $29 a year Facebook-at least to me. I was also trying to figure out how I would benefit as a client-all I got was that I'd get a mobile app and it would be cool and I could share with my friends. That app looks like a scrolling Picstitch-can you even customize your look and feel so it's representative of your brand or are you stuck with theirs?
PASS talks a lot about freeing the photographer to focus on service and pricing on the front end instead of selling on the back end. Most wedding photographers I know already do that so PASS is nothing really ground breaking. Plus most photographers I know are offering their clients services after their event.
Maybe it would make more sense if I could see a real gallery but from all of what's on the front page, there are plenty of options that are far superior.
Ian, you are correct. As I said, Pass is mainly for wedding photographers and for those who don't care about selling prints online but about getting word of mouth marketing with their images. For those people it make a lot of sense.
Secondly, Pass users are those who are focused on client experience and not on print sales. And there isn't anything out there that even come close to how great is the Pass presentation and experience for the user.
The people you see there complaining are those who want both -great experience and big print sales while passing the files - and both is not possible.
In my opinion, it does not work as well for portrait photographers unless they also abandon the print sale model.
What you rather do... sell $1,000 a year in 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 or book $3k+ weddings? As a wedding photographer I'll take the second any day.
That is why they say that Pass liberate the photographer to concentrate in service. By not having to worry about doing minimal print sales but by focusing in getting weddings book which is were wedding photographers make their money.
In my opinion, for weddings, print sales is a loosing proposition. At least for most people.
Think about it, out of the 100 or so persons at a wedding who have any interest in the images? Your clients and their parents. Guest take their snapshots with their mobile phones and are happy.
Do you know many people that have large prints of someone else wedding in their living room?
So that is the foundation for Pass philosophy. If you are giving away the files you chances of print sales are minimal .
Pass is not for everyone, is not perfect, and does requires a certain mindset to have it work for you.
1. Great online experience looking at their wedding photographs.
2. Immediate download their images on High resolution.
3. They can easily share their images on social media.
4. They can share with others.
If you use it smartly it will create for you:
Great feedback from your client. That turns into great word of mouth marketing. If they share the images in Facebook your branding and information follows it so you get viral marketing. This can be huge. If you embed the galleries in your website you get traffic benefits to your website. If you give register the bridal party - most likely people that will be marrying soon - to see the galleries you get marketing.
ALso, you do not have to worry about burning, packaging and mailing discs.
Now, you can sell gift prints at prices that allows volume sales.
So the main focus for you is as a marketing tool to help you book more weddings.
1. Great online experience looking at their wedding photographs.
2. Immediate download their images on High resolution.
3. They can easily share their images on social media.
4. They can share with others.
If you use it smartly it will create for you:
Great feedback from your client. That turns into great word of mouth marketing. If they share the images in Facebook your branding and information follows it so you get viral marketing. This can be huge. If you embed the galleries in your website you get traffic benefits to your website. If you give register the bridal party - most likely people that will be marrying soon - to see the galleries you get marketing.
ALso, you do not have to worry about burning, packaging and mailing discs.
Now, you can sell gift prints at prices that allows volume sales.
So the main focus for you is as a marketing tool to help you book more weddings.
idk. I just don't see how PASS is better. Nothing it offers is better than say the top three or four photo sharing sites.
To me, PASS reads like a late night infommercial promising great return for not a lot of work. We all know wedding photography is a lot more than that.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
DawnyaLynn, let me ask you why do you say Smugmug is best for photographers?
Maybe I should have said for me at this point. I have researched it and have been following PASS, and researched other sites, and right now SmugMug is the best for me and what I want to do.
There are more options and the ability for someone like me to have some customization (code illiterate), is great. The unlimited storage, the print guarantee, etc...are all what keeps me with SmugMug. While I have photographed 3 weddings, I am not exclusively a wedding photographer, so PASS, does not work for me.
idk. I just don't see how PASS is better. Nothing it offers is better than say the top three or four photo sharing sites.
To me, PASS reads like a late night infommercial promising great return for not a lot of work. We all know wedding photography is a lot more than that.
Like I said, it isn't for everyone. But the user experience beats anything out there by a long mile. It is modern and user friendly. EVERY user that I have given a Pass gallery loves it and rave about it. So I benefit.
And like I said, I did a test offering a Smugmug gallery to the client and later "upgrading" them to a PAss gallery. I then asked them to give me their opinion of each one. Hands down, Pass won every single time.
So yes, Pass offer something better than every alternative out there.
If you don't think it makes a difference, then it is just not for you and you should continue to use that that works best for you. But every one of my clients see the difference and I cannot ignore their feedback.
James Geiger M. Ed.
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
You guys just got a new login page, what are you griping about? Wasn't that the number one feature that everyone has been waiting years for? Even though it was a little buggy they burned the midnight oil to get it to you!
You guys just got a new login page, what are you griping about? Wasn't that the number one feature that everyone has been waiting years for? Even though it was a little buggy they burned the midnight oil to get it to you!
Y'all really expect a lot....
And still not working properly on Chrome or Safari. It does not keep me logged in and I have to manually enter login information every time.
James Geiger M. Ed.
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
It is sad to see that every time a new feature or change is introduced bugs follow.
Bug #1 The new login screen. It has a keep me logged option that does not work on either Safari or Chrome.
Bug #2 adding galleries to an Event. Since you change the "look" of adding galleries to event, it does not work properly. Let sat I add a gallery yesterday to Mary & John event. And today I want to add two more galleries. If I only select the two galleries I want to add, it will delete from the events all the galleries they were previously added. I have to go back and select all the galleries. regardless if it already was added or not in order that all galleries stay in the event. That is not the way it was before.
I am very concerned that the few updates done to the system have come with bugs. It seems to me that there is an problem with quality control...
It is sad to see that every time a new feature or change is introduced bugs follow.
Bug #1 The new login screen. It has a keep me logged option that does not work on either Safari or Chrome.
Bug #2 adding galleries to an Event. Since you change the "look" of adding galleries to event, it does not work properly. Let sat I add a gallery yesterday to Mary & John event. And today I want to add two more galleries. If I only select the two galleries I want to add, it will delete from the events all the galleries they were previously added. I have to go back and select all the galleries. regardless if it already was added or not in order that all galleries stay in the event. That is not the way it was before.
I am very concerned that the few updates done to the system have come with bugs. It seems to me that there is an problem with quality control...
David, we have not been able to find any new cases of the workflow that may be causing users to be logged out, not to say that there isn't any...we just haven't been able to recreate. Is their one or 2 things you in your workflow you always seem to do when in your SmugMug site?
I haven't been able to recreate the event galleries issue you describe. If I go into an event, and add a gallery, I simply select that gallery, and it is populated in the event with the previous galleries. I tested with galleries over many Categories also. Any chance you can take a video of what you are seeing and send it over? Jing makes great screen recording software.
I can't help feeling a little nervous about this. Am I going to wake up on August 1st and find that my website is broken or is everything going to be exactly the same but I suddenly have a lot more options and the choice of whether or not to use them?
I can't help feeling a little nervous about this. Am I going to wake up on August 1st and find that my website is broken or is everything going to be exactly the same but I suddenly have a lot more options and the choice of whether or not to use them?
My guess is that we will have the options with the choice of whether or not to use them at first, and eventually get a deadline by which everyone will have to migrate to the new system or try some auto-migration. That is the point at which I imagine websites might be broken but it shouldn't come for some time. We will just have to wait until next week to find out for sure.
My guess is that we will have the options with the choice of whether or not to use them at first, and eventually get a deadline by which everyone will have to migrate to the new system or try some auto-migration. That is the point at which I imagine websites might be broken but it shouldn't come for some time. We will just have to wait until next week to find out for sure.
Yes, that's what I'm afraid of but I'll hold off on panic measures until I know more.
As Fryer Tuck from Robin Hood said, "Praise The Lord & Pass The Tax Rebate"... That's how excited I am :-)
Thank You Smugmug!!! I'm nervously but wholeheartedly looking forward to this!
i am in the wait and see mode. hoping and apprehensive at the same time. But looking forward to see whatever we get presented. My only hope is not like "these are the thing we have plan and you will see then soon..." That is what Pictage did and it cost them as a lot of people left them - me one of them - and I would hate to happen the same thing here.
What do I expect to see? I want to see a modern user interface for clients. A mason style display of my images. Easier way for my client to share images on social media.
I am excited to hear about the upcoming announcement. I do notice however that along with the excitement, Smugmuggers are also having some anxiety. Pro users have incorporated Smugmug as part of our business workflow and depend on it to manage their businesses.
Perhaps a few comments about what will NOT change, When new features will start to be available, and how long we can use our current configuration as it is without doing anything.
I think this will go a long way towards helping your customers look forward to the new changes without being worried that the new Smugmug will not work well for them.
So you want an announcement about the announcement? ;-) :-P
Just a simple announcement that clarifies whether on July 30 a whole bunch of new changes will go into effect OR on July 30 they will announce that these changes will be coming soon. It's very confusing me thinks. That's why most are concerned I think.
Comments
I am not looking for a cheaper solution but for a best solution at the right price. To me, Paying $29 per gallery per year is not a big deal because it is part of the cost I figure into my prices. So I actually make money from my $29 investment. In top of that I am looking into the buzz the client experience creates and the viral possibilities it has.
I used to pay $1,200 a year for Pictage when I thought it was the right solution for my business and I was making close to $10k a year in print sales. Once it did not produce for me it was time to change and it was Smugmug what worked best for me. SM raised their prices without offering anything new for the added cost and it was time to start evaluating other solutions.
And It hasn't replace discs for me yet. I still give it because it is something tangible that I can use to promote my brand.
To be honest, I do not pay much attention to what some people say in their facebook page.
My feedback is 100% that my client love the presentation. No confusion at all. I have loaded all my 2013 weddings and engagements in both Smugmug and Pass.
That they fixed the print price does not bother me. It is around what I have it for reasons I will explain below. And some people loose sight that we are talking of gift prints. Those who think that can sell a 4x6 print in $15 don't need Pass. For the rest of all, Pass may be the right option. Yes, I would love to be able to set my prices, but I don't mind the prices they have set.
That said, Pass is a different mindset from other solutions like Pictage, Smugmug, etc.
If you are focus on selling prints online, then Pass is not an option for you. I am of the believe that the sale of 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 is really minimum for weddings so I am more for the client experience and viral marketing than actual prints.
The bottom line your decision need to be based in what work best for your business model and not in any loyalty that we may think we owe a company because we have used it for many years of because the people are nice.
Smugmug people are very nice and I am sure they are working hard to provide what they believe is the best solution they can think of. Once they unveil their new SM I will evaluate it and decide if it works for me or not. My quest is for the right solution for my business at the right price.
Each solution has it pros and cons. None is perfect. But Smugmug does not offer me anything that their competition offers also.
The only things that got me to switch to Smugmug was that I could show larger images (client experience) and the low cost.
The low cost is gone and they no longer offer the best client experience. So I cannot agree with you that Smugmug is the best for photographers.
The fact is that Smugmug was created to compete with Flicker and not for pro photographers. What they have been doing is adding stuff little by little, just enough to keep pros interested. Hey, you could not ask much for $150 a year.
If Smugmug were a true pro solution we would have had a mobile app for our clients. We do not. We would have multiple folders so our clients could choose their album picks instead of having to use "favorites" for that. We have been asking that for years and I have given up. We have been asking to be able to upload an entire categorized event at one time and we still don't have that. To be honest, if Pictage were that expensive I would have saty with them as their new user interface is much better than anything out there. But they made the same mistake Smugmug is making now... they made their user base wait to long.
PASS talks a lot about freeing the photographer to focus on service and pricing on the front end instead of selling on the back end. Most wedding photographers I know already do that so PASS is nothing really ground breaking. Plus most photographers I know are offering their clients services after their event.
Maybe it would make more sense if I could see a real gallery but from all of what's on the front page, there are plenty of options that are far superior.
Ian, you are correct. As I said, Pass is mainly for wedding photographers and for those who don't care about selling prints online but about getting word of mouth marketing with their images. For those people it make a lot of sense.
Secondly, Pass users are those who are focused on client experience and not on print sales. And there isn't anything out there that even come close to how great is the Pass presentation and experience for the user.
The people you see there complaining are those who want both -great experience and big print sales while passing the files - and both is not possible.
In my opinion, it does not work as well for portrait photographers unless they also abandon the print sale model.
What you rather do... sell $1,000 a year in 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 or book $3k+ weddings? As a wedding photographer I'll take the second any day.
That is why they say that Pass liberate the photographer to concentrate in service. By not having to worry about doing minimal print sales but by focusing in getting weddings book which is were wedding photographers make their money.
In my opinion, for weddings, print sales is a loosing proposition. At least for most people.
Think about it, out of the 100 or so persons at a wedding who have any interest in the images? Your clients and their parents. Guest take their snapshots with their mobile phones and are happy.
Do you know many people that have large prints of someone else wedding in their living room?
So that is the foundation for Pass philosophy. If you are giving away the files you chances of print sales are minimal .
Pass is not for everyone, is not perfect, and does requires a certain mindset to have it work for you.
What does you client gets:
1. Great online experience looking at their wedding photographs.
2. Immediate download their images on High resolution.
3. They can easily share their images on social media.
4. They can share with others.
If you use it smartly it will create for you:
Great feedback from your client. That turns into great word of mouth marketing. If they share the images in Facebook your branding and information follows it so you get viral marketing. This can be huge. If you embed the galleries in your website you get traffic benefits to your website. If you give register the bridal party - most likely people that will be marrying soon - to see the galleries you get marketing.
ALso, you do not have to worry about burning, packaging and mailing discs.
Now, you can sell gift prints at prices that allows volume sales.
So the main focus for you is as a marketing tool to help you book more weddings.
idk. I just don't see how PASS is better. Nothing it offers is better than say the top three or four photo sharing sites.
To me, PASS reads like a late night infommercial promising great return for not a lot of work. We all know wedding photography is a lot more than that.
Maybe I should have said for me at this point. I have researched it and have been following PASS, and researched other sites, and right now SmugMug is the best for me and what I want to do.
There are more options and the ability for someone like me to have some customization (code illiterate), is great. The unlimited storage, the print guarantee, etc...are all what keeps me with SmugMug. While I have photographed 3 weddings, I am not exclusively a wedding photographer, so PASS, does not work for me.
Like I said, it isn't for everyone. But the user experience beats anything out there by a long mile. It is modern and user friendly. EVERY user that I have given a Pass gallery loves it and rave about it. So I benefit.
And like I said, I did a test offering a Smugmug gallery to the client and later "upgrading" them to a PAss gallery. I then asked them to give me their opinion of each one. Hands down, Pass won every single time.
So yes, Pass offer something better than every alternative out there.
If you don't think it makes a difference, then it is just not for you and you should continue to use that that works best for you. But every one of my clients see the difference and I cannot ignore their feedback.
Wendell
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
Why? Just because we're about a month away from the one year anniversary of the massive price increase and no major updates have been released?
C'mon - You know they don't talk about schedules or dates.
Y'all really expect a lot....
And still not working properly on Chrome or Safari. It does not keep me logged in and I have to manually enter login information every time.
Oh well ... my renewal was as painful as some ... but the lack of communication is ...
"Being a photographer is not about taking a photograph, it is about being curious about life."
~ Jared Platt
http://www.jamesgeigerphoto.com
You must have the patience of Job, sticking it out this long.
I hope they've got some sort of drag and drop in the works.
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
Bug #1 The new login screen. It has a keep me logged option that does not work on either Safari or Chrome.
Bug #2 adding galleries to an Event. Since you change the "look" of adding galleries to event, it does not work properly. Let sat I add a gallery yesterday to Mary & John event. And today I want to add two more galleries. If I only select the two galleries I want to add, it will delete from the events all the galleries they were previously added. I have to go back and select all the galleries. regardless if it already was added or not in order that all galleries stay in the event. That is not the way it was before.
I am very concerned that the few updates done to the system have come with bugs. It seems to me that there is an problem with quality control...
www.zblackwood.com
David, we have not been able to find any new cases of the workflow that may be causing users to be logged out, not to say that there isn't any...we just haven't been able to recreate. Is their one or 2 things you in your workflow you always seem to do when in your SmugMug site?
I haven't been able to recreate the event galleries issue you describe. If I go into an event, and add a gallery, I simply select that gallery, and it is populated in the event with the previous galleries. I tested with galleries over many Categories also. Any chance you can take a video of what you are seeing and send it over? Jing makes great screen recording software.
Thanks!
Michael
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Photo Blog
http://www.ustream.tv/smugmug
ERIC SCOTT PHOTOGRAPHY
commercial and architectural imagery
www.ericscottphotography.com
My guess is that we will have the options with the choice of whether or not to use them at first, and eventually get a deadline by which everyone will have to migrate to the new system or try some auto-migration. That is the point at which I imagine websites might be broken but it shouldn't come for some time. We will just have to wait until next week to find out for sure.
ERIC SCOTT PHOTOGRAPHY
commercial and architectural imagery
www.ericscottphotography.com
Yes, that's what I'm afraid of but I'll hold off on panic measures until I know more.
Thank You Smugmug!!! I'm nervously but wholeheartedly looking forward to this!
What do I expect to see? I want to see a modern user interface for clients. A mason style display of my images. Easier way for my client to share images on social media.
I am excited to hear about the upcoming announcement. I do notice however that along with the excitement, Smugmuggers are also having some anxiety. Pro users have incorporated Smugmug as part of our business workflow and depend on it to manage their businesses.
Perhaps a few comments about what will NOT change, When new features will start to be available, and how long we can use our current configuration as it is without doing anything.
I think this will go a long way towards helping your customers look forward to the new changes without being worried that the new Smugmug will not work well for them.
Vote for: SmugMug Two factor authentication
Just a simple announcement that clarifies whether on July 30 a whole bunch of new changes will go into effect OR on July 30 they will announce that these changes will be coming soon. It's very confusing me thinks. That's why most are concerned I think.