That would be me
I am truly sorry you feel that way, but I assure you that their is no attitude or "Middle Glass Finger".
Michael
I didn't mean to be ugly toward you as a person, it was just an overall feeling...Last summer when many of us questioned the price increase and nothing (much) to show for it that was already after a year+ wait for something to come out of darkroom... So now 2011, 2012 and who knows for 2013 that is a very long time in the tech world for a new version of an Internet product.
Now if what we are being told is true, a total rewrite of SM then maybe that's worth it, but I don't think anyone can fault us for being cynical as we have been told "it's going to be great" for numerous years.
That being said, I don't get up and kick my dog every morning because Smugmug looks dated and [insert fabulous UI photo service here] looks great. I'm going to try and not fuss about it again till December when my renewal time is here.
Then I check on Facebook, Twitter or Google+ for updates from SM and often I get the new guy holding his expense glass up in the air and it looks to me as if that's the new attitude the middle glass finger
Yikes, I'm sorry we're giving that impression. Unfortunately, that's going to happen a lot because we have Google Glass-wearing photographers visiting SmugMug often, and they stick them on our dogs and employees for photo ops.
For example, Thomas Hawk made this post this morning of Michael Bonocore and his dog Rocky that went viral:
...Unfortunately, that's going to happen a lot because we have Google Glass-wearing photographers visiting SmugMug often...
I think Havanese is referring to "The Bonocore", and I couldn't agree more. It's offensive. Everybody knows it's Internet software, how fast it turns, everyone knows the stakes. Most people are very loyal subscribers, and here's this 'guy' doing gimmicky poses for photos. 721 posts he's logged on Dgrin. I believe that's less than the number of "The Bonocore" photos he's starred in.
I think Havanese is referring to "The Bonocore", and I couldn't agree more. It's offensive. Everybody knows it's Internet software, how fast it turns, everyone knows the stakes. Most people are very loyal subscribers, and here's this 'guy' doing gimmicky poses for photos. 721 posts he's logged on Dgrin. I believe that's less than the number of "The Bonocore" photos he's starred in.
Andy logged 721 in a weekend.
Less goofing - more reality. Please.
Malte
Understood Malte...I do have many other jobs here at SmugMug. Luckily we have a great team of Support Heroes that handle most of the intake of questions here. I try to stay out of their way unless I am needed. They do a fantastic job, and they love handling support questions here, so I let them do what they love to do (and trust me, they love their jobs).
I think Havanese is referring to "The Bonocore", and I couldn't agree more. It's offensive. Everybody knows it's Internet software, how fast it turns, everyone knows the stakes. Most people are very loyal subscribers, and here's this 'guy' doing gimmicky poses for photos. 721 posts he's logged on Dgrin. I believe that's less than the number of "The Bonocore" photos he's starred in.
Andy logged 721 in a weekend.
Less goofing - more reality. Please.
Malte
While I understand where you are coming from, I personally enjoy seeing SmugMuggers enjoying themselves and having fun. If they were all just serious all the time I doubt creative, highly talented, and motivated people would want to work there for long.
I feel the concept of "Work hard and play hard" is extremely important for an organization such as SmugMug where highly skilled developers pretty much have their pick of companies to work for. It is clear to me from posts by Baldy and Bonocore that the SM crew is working extremely hard and is excited about what they are working on. I personally can't really ask for anything more and will just need to continue being patient as I feel we'll be better off in the long run as SM customers.
If SmugMug was just serious all the time, I envision they would lose that magic that has kept me a customer for years and just turn into another company that is all about the bottom line.
I feel SM has been taking a lot of heat lately and I'm sure it keeps that fire lit for them but I also know that being appreciated for what they do can help morale as well Cheers guys!
Sincerely happy customer for many years to come,
Dave Veffer
While I understand where you are coming from I personally enjoy seeing SmugMuggers enjoying themselves and having fun. If they were all just serious all the time I doubt creative, highly talented, and motivated people would want to work there for long.
I feel the concept of "Work hard and play hard" is extremely important for an organization such as SmugMug where highly skilled developers pretty much have their pick of companies to work for. It is clear to me from posts by Baldy and Bonocore that the SM crew is working extremely hard and is excited about what they are working on. I personally can't really ask for anything more and will just need to continue being patient as I feel we'll be better off in the long run as SM customers.
If SmugMug was just serious all the time I envision they would lose that magic that has kept me a customer for years and just turn into another company that is all about the bottom line.
I feel SM has been taking a lot of heat lately and I'm sure it keeps that fire lit for them but I also know that being appreciated for what they do can help morale as well Cheers guys!
Sincerely happy customer for many years to come,
Dave Veffer
Very nicely said ToxMox, completely agree with you.
Thank you for the kind words Caroline and Dave. I can tell you from being an employee for 6 months, that besides working insanely hard, SmugMug employees LOVE Photography to the bone, and we enjoy sharing our passion with our loyal customers.
While I understand where you are coming from, I personally enjoy seeing SmugMuggers enjoying themselves and having fun. If they were all just serious all the time I doubt creative, highly talented, and motivated people would want to work there for long.
I feel the concept of "Work hard and play hard" is extremely important for an organization such as SmugMug where highly skilled developers pretty much have their pick of companies to work for. It is clear to me from posts by Baldy and Bonocore that the SM crew is working extremely hard and is excited about what they are working on. I personally can't really ask for anything more and will just need to continue being patient as I feel we'll be better off in the long run as SM customers.
If SmugMug was just serious all the time, I envision they would lose that magic that has kept me a customer for years and just turn into another company that is all about the bottom line.
I feel SM has been taking a lot of heat lately and I'm sure it keeps that fire lit for them but I also know that being appreciated for what they do can help morale as well Cheers guys!
Sincerely happy customer for many years to come,
Dave Veffer
Thank you, Dave. It's true that most people at SmugMug either came from companies like Google or had offers from them, and the overriding reason they chose us was their love of photography. So after some really long hours, our favorite thing to do is go out and shoot!
Baldy ~ Are we getting closer to the new smugmug updates? Anything? Throw us a crumb or something???
Hi Cindy,
I know you don't want to hear about how we cannot give you a time frame, but alas, we cannot. But I can tell you that the team is burning the midnight oil in SmugMug HQ a couple of nights a week, even on the weekends. This team is pretty excited!
I've decided to stick around another year although I did drop down to Portfolio for now. May even drop lower since I'm doing so few sales through SM nowadays.
I sure hope we are all blown away whenever the big reveal comes. C'mon Smuggy!
I've decided to stick around another year although I did drop down to Portfolio for now. May even drop lower since I'm doing so few sales through SM nowadays.
I sure hope we are all blown away whenever the big reveal comes. C'mon Smuggy!
Renewal Due - Why Stay?
Obviously I am a little behind the update curve and this thread has been somewhat informative as I pondering why I should continue my subscription given the price increase has yielded few enhancements.
The "update" offered nothing substantial to assist with my decision making process as to stay or seek an alternative. I am not particularly interested in comparisons on how other sites / organizations perform product development or releases. I am not paying them ~$300.00 for a subscription; therefore, I dont care.
I dont pay for "passionate" posts, cute usernames and face painted super heros. I pay for a product should be flexible enough to meet my needs as a small freelance photographer and product enhancements that keep pace with industry trends and other competitors offerings. I dont see it.
Not defining a launch date "for the next big thing" or offering a list of product enhancements is simply a copout and if secrecy is thought of as cute marketing ploy - I'm not buying it. Ok. Great - burning the midnight oil (who isnt these days?). Lots of talk, posting and "feeling" but little action.
Recently, I spent four - six hours using the free trial in PhotoShelter. Within that short time frame, I have been to customize the my potential site far more easily than I can in SM. More options. More intutive interface. In the SM world, I would need spend MORE to achieve the same result. Plus, the order fulfillment process was simple enough even a non-IT customer can complete with ease (which, btw, is the biggest complaints I received from my customers when trying to order on SM).
What will I do? Dont know. Been with SM for two years. Make the leap of faith, renew, and trust all the talk, posting and "feeling" will result in a value added product that reinforces my belief the subscription investment is worth it? will it meet my goals? Better service MY customers? Dont know. Cant answer. Have no real concrete information.
Like many, I am frustrated over a price increase (with little value add to go with it), but more importantly dissappointed in the secrecy approach to keep existing customers "hanging". Its time to stand up and say - here it is! and the date is now!
Obviously I am a little behind the update curve and this thread has been somewhat informative as I pondering why I should continue my subscription given the price increase has yielded few enhancements.
The "update" offered nothing substantial to assist with my decision making process as to stay or seek an alternative. I am not particularly interested in comparisons on how other sites / organizations perform product development or releases. I am not paying them ~$300.00 for a subscription; therefore, I dont care.
I dont pay for "passionate" posts, cute usernames and face painted super heros. I pay for a product should be flexible enough to meet my needs as a small freelance photographer and product enhancements that keep pace with industry trends and other competitors offerings. I dont see it.
Not defining a launch date "for the next big thing" or offering a list of product enhancements is simply a copout and if secrecy is thought of as cute marketing ploy - I'm not buying it. Ok. Great - burning the midnight oil (who isnt these days?). Lots of talk, posting and "feeling" but little action.
Recently, I spent four - six hours using the free trial in PhotoShelter. Within that short time frame, I have been to customize the my potential site far more easily than I can in SM. More options. More intutive interface. In the SM world, I would need spend MORE to achieve the same result. Plus, the order fulfillment process was simple enough even a non-IT customer can complete with ease (which, btw, is the biggest complaints I received from my customers when trying to order on SM).
What will I do? Dont know. Been with SM for two years. Make the leap of faith, renew, and trust all the talk, posting and "feeling" will result in a value added product that reinforces my belief the subscription investment is worth it? will it meet my goals? Better service MY customers? Dont know. Cant answer. Have no real concrete information.
Like many, I am frustrated over a price increase (with little value add to go with it), but more importantly dissappointed in the secrecy approach to keep existing customers "hanging". Its time to stand up and say - here it is! and the date is now!
Best Regards,
W. Jones
Hi Wendell,
I will be responding to you on Google+ as well. I understand the frustrations. I really do. But we have made a decision to not discuss timing on products and features, or discuss what we have on the agenda, because we have been burned before. We do believe however, that if you stick with us, you will be glad you did. And remember, we do have unlimited Storage for all your backup needs, which some of our competitors do not have.
Thanks for the reply. Burned? Interesting. If the product and services are superior to all others in the marketplace it's a non-issue. Sounds like the paying customer is suffering due to past failures and fear. If I remember correctly, SM justification for the significant price increase was related to an increase data storage costs; therefore, I don't see the unlimited storage as adding much value to my assessment. That operational cost has been passed along to the customers.
I respect the decision and hopeful the next big thing ... Whenever it does happen ... Is truly to the delight of the SM customer base (and my paying customers).
"… but more importantly dissappointed in the secrecy approach to keep existing customers "hanging". Its time to stand up and say - here it is! and the date is now! Best Regards, W. Jones "
Amen
As a long time faithful Smugger who whole heartedly has planned to stick around, I can't help but shout loudly "Amen". Come on SM! The long drawn out wait & excuses are getting very very old. My hope is beginning to diminish rather quickly... much like a setting sun :-(
I can understand no disclosing what's coming... Hec, I even defended smugmug when the prices went up. But I am loosing faith...
But what I cannot understand how paying more has yielded lower customer support.
I went over to support to report an issue I have been having and I was surprised to see that customer support chat is no longer available. Nor there is a phone number we can call for support. Sony was left with the only option of submitting a support ticket. Well, I said, no biggie as in the past bathe support "heroes" answer pretty fast, even in the wee hours of the morning. Well, guess what, I has been over 24 hours since then, no answer.
Very bad form.
We get a price hike without anything new to justify it. We give Smugmug the benefit of the doubt and wait... And wait.... And wait... And wait... And to make matter worst, we are getting less than we had for more money. Bad support is about the only thing I will not accept.
I wish I didn't renew my subscription. honestly. I am very dissapointed. And I have began to look and test new alternatives.
So, Smugmug, you better deliver something so amazing that you blow us away. You better do it soon. I dont want to see window dressings to a very poorly design and fragmented system. Otherwise it will be hasta la vista baby...
Well this post by Baldy in a different thread seems to indicate that at least one new "feature" is hung up due to a legal battle (and we all know how fast legal proceedings are). My four years with a SM Pro account were fine but after the announcement of the price increase, I decided it was time for me to move on. There was no longer a significant price difference between SM and Photoshelter so I switched. Your mileage will vary, of course, but in six months with Photoshelter I've received more inquiries than the previous time with Smugmug. At this point, I'm pretty happy with my move.
I wish SM the best with the eventual update. In fact, I still have a personal SM account. The easiest thing would have been to stay. The right thing for me, however, was to leave.
I'm a little late to this thread but thanks for the update. I'm certainly not the oldest SM customer here but posts like this are part of the reason why I stay loyal to SM. I look forward to seeing whatever comes next.
I can understand no disclosing what's coming... Hec, I even defended smugmug when the prices went up. But I am loosing faith...
But what I cannot understand how paying more has yielded lower customer support.
I went over to support to report an issue I have been having and I was surprised to see that customer support chat is no longer available. Nor there is a phone number we can call for support. Sony was left with the only option of submitting a support ticket. Well, I said, no biggie as in the past bathe support "heroes" answer pretty fast, even in the wee hours of the morning. Well, guess what, I has been over 24 hours since then, no answer.
Very bad form.
We get a price hike without anything new to justify it. We give Smugmug the benefit of the doubt and wait... And wait.... And wait... And wait... And to make matter worst, we are getting less than we had for more money. Bad support is about the only thing I will not accept.
I wish I didn't renew my subscription. honestly. I am very dissapointed. And I have began to look and test new alternatives.
So, Smugmug, you better deliver something so amazing that you blow us away. You better do it soon. I dont want to see window dressings to a very poorly design and fragmented system. Otherwise it will be hasta la vista baby...
That doesn't sound like SmugMug support at all, I'm sorry you had that experience. My guess is that your email never arrived in the inbox beacause we answer hundreds and hundres of support tickets each day and usually within minutes. We are staffed nearly 24/7/365. The live chat box is not always available and only staffed certain times of the day which you can see on the link below.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I can assure you that the Customer Support hasn't faltered. Give us another try . You can email us help @ smugmug.com or fill out the form on this help page. http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/emails/new
Yikes, I'm sorry we're giving that impression. Unfortunately, that's going to happen a lot because we have Google Glass-wearing photographers visiting SmugMug often, and they stick them on our dogs and employees for photo ops.
For example, Thomas Hawk made this post this morning of Michael Bonocore and his dog Rocky that went viral:
First, I do not understand... that legal battle was fought and lost several years ago. I remember it because there were several companies involved including the one I used then, Pictage. So are you telling me Smugmug is being sued again for the same thing that it was sued several years ago?
This is what I am concerned about Smugmug.
To me Smugmug was born to be the paid competition to Flicker way back then.
Then, on the way they discover that the pros loved the way images looked at Smugmug, meaning big. While every other pro service was showing small previews to protect pros' copyright, some prefered the large display Smugmug offered. But wait, you could not sell through Smugmug. And the light went ON at Smugmug: "let's find a way to make them happy and we will have more clients" they said. And Smugmug Pro was born.
But here is the problem. Smugmug was made to work for pros using a sledge hammer. he only three real advantages Smugmug Pro offered to Pros was large display, choice of lab and lower cost. But the way the backend works, well, sucks. That to say that it is not really design for Pros but just made to work for Pros.
Most of the stuff Smugmug offers is great for consumer and amateurs but not for working pros.
Just one example how Smugmug is not efficient:
If I want to categorize my images for a wedding in the different aspects of the days (ceremony, reception, getting ready, etc) I have to create a gallery for each one and upload a gallery at the time. That forces me to be slaved next to a computer and makes the upload process of a wedding take forever. Not good for the bottom line. But we justified it because Smugmug was cheap and the images looked good.
Then, I have to go and create an event in a different area of Smugmug and pull the galleries into that event. Time consuming, redundant and laborious.
Smugmug pride itself i the deep level of customization. Well, that shows me that Smugmug still thinking of the amaterur and not on the Pro. I think if you ask us we want something that looks good and it is efficient, that does not tie us down in more administration work. Yes, you have Pros endorsing Smugmug, but they do not do it themselves but have employees that take care of this things.
Even the way clients purchase prints seems to be a after thought that was made to "fit" in their system.
Smugmug is no longer the great value that once was at $150. At double the price is where everyone else is now, even Pictage. Many other solutions now offer larger displays. So, what we getting for $300 a year? The same as everyone else. With one blog post, Smugmug took away the main reason many used Smugmug: it was s decent, cheap solution to the competition.
Hec, With Simply Studio Manegement I get a great lab, no commission, unlimited uploads and galleries, studio management, marketing tools, accounting for the same I am paying for Smugmug. Is like getting Smugmug, Quickbooks, Mailchimp, and ShootQ for $299 a year! And you pay no commission!!! So, you see, right now, Smugmug is not the best (never was) and not the cheaper. So, why should I stay with Smugmug? Well, you have to give me real reasons.
What do I expect to see to stay with Smugmug? A well thought out solution and design coherently for Pros. To save us time and makes us money.
So far, I am sad to say, I haven't see any indications of Smugmug going into that direction.
I have no problem if Smugmug wants to abandon the Pro market and want to concentrate is amateurs. But please, tell us now.
I don't want to leave, but can't justify staying on at the pro level unless my old rate is grandfathered in. At least until the big grand release happens. My renewal is in September.
It's a pain to set up elsewhere, but I feel as though SM is forcing me into it. I can't stay for 'feelings' or 'excitement'. That would be a ridiculous business decision.
If SM wants to keep their old customers, such as those of us who have used SM for 5+ years, while we are being actively recruited by other site hosts offering sweet deals and two month full pro level free trials, SM might consider grandfathering more in at their old rate. Then, when the big release happens, the rate increase could kick in for that group when their renewal dates come up.
Everything I want, such as those wedding categories mentioned above, and an easier shopping experience for clients, is already available for half the price or less by competitors. It's a bad business decision to pay more for less, so I think I'm just going to go down to the cheapest option when renewal comes up, and then link all current weddings and e session clients to another site for their shopping. Having both the cheapest Sm site as well as the $150 Z. site for a year is still less expensive than staying with my current SM pro setup. Then, after all this years weddings are on the new site and the transition is made, my old Sm site will expire and be gone. It's the one year and three month plan the SM is forcing me into, since business is business.
I am not afraid of dates. My clients get a deadline for me to deliver what I promise. In writing. Frankly, SM refusing to commit to dates feels like a huge cop out, especially when the price has doubled.
If the shopping experience was better, such as allowing mobile users to buy from tablets, the site might have kept paying for itself. But right now, the experience is plain horrible for most clients, whom Google anylitics tells me are using mobile devices.
The overall sales reflect that fact. At the old price, most years, the site paid for itself, but no longer. When the shopping is easier, profits go up.
There are two ways for SM to turn a profit. One is by charging more to photographers who are paying them to host.
The other is to make the shopping experience the easiest and best out there, on all devices, so that their 15 percent take of each sale is multiplied by many millions.
Sadly, SM took the first, far less profitable and shortsighted option, rather than the latter. But we all have to do what we feel is best for our own businesses.
Shopping experience! Last night, I received yet another complaint (via FB) from a customer attempting to place order and could not. Upon investigation, its appears my price lists were completely messed up and not active. How? Got nary a clue. Of course, it took a good solid hour to recreate and activate. Certainly not an intuitive process to setup. I supposed that I may have screwed them up as I continue my comparison to other competitors. You know ... play with a feature in Zenfolio, Photoshelter and compare it to SM. Who knows. Bottom-line another lost sale.
The recent blog on why I am not selling enough was interesting - the theme was ... Well ... Subscriber you aren't setting up your site correctly. You must do this ... Do that ... Buy button here ... Activate this ... Etc. God forbid the standard site and pages have the appropriate features, buttons and settings already activated, visible, present and ready to roll. No "tweaking" required.
Price increase, lawsuits, secrecy, delays, etc. things that make you go hmmmmm ...
If I want to categorize my images for a wedding in the different aspects of the days (ceremony, reception, getting ready, etc) I have to create a gallery for each one and upload a gallery at the time. That forces me to be slaved next to a computer and makes the upload process of a wedding take forever. Not good for the bottom line. But we justified it because Smugmug was cheap and the images looked good.
.
Hi David,
Thank you for your feedback. It is hard to hear that you do not think we cater to the pros out there, but what we strive is to create a product that is both beneficial for all types of photographers. Pros, weekend warriors, beginners, part timers, hobbyists. I hope you feel some of our upcoming changes help alliviate your pain points.
Just a side note for what you describe above. This is what I do when I have to split my wedding photos into separate galleries for Pre Ceremony, Ceremony, Portraits, etc. I upload all my photos into one main gallery, and then sort that gallery by time captured. I simply use the Move To Another Gallery tool to then move them over into each new gallery. I just need to use Shift+Click to select all the photos I need with 2 clicks, since they are sorted by time.
The recent blog on why I am not selling enough was interesting - the theme was ... Well ... Subscriber you aren't setting up your site correctly. You must do this ... Do that ... Buy button here ... Activate this ... Etc. God forbid the standard site and pages have the appropriate features, buttons and settings already activated, visible, present and ready to roll. No "tweaking" required.
I apologize for the lost sale. I would like to help you make sure it doesn't happen again. I can take a look and see if I can dig up any information about changes in your pricelists. That may help you identify when you changed it.
Thank you for your feedback. It is hard to hear that you do not think we cater to the pros out there, but what we strive is to create a product that is both beneficial for all types of photographers. Pros, weekend warriors, beginners, part timers, hobbyists. I hope you feel some of our upcoming changes help alliviate your pain points.
Just a side note for what you describe above. This is what I do when I have to split my wedding photos into separate galleries for Pre Ceremony, Ceremony, Portraits, etc. I upload all my photos into one main gallery, and then sort that gallery by time captured. I simply use the Move To Another Gallery tool to then move them over into each new gallery. I just need to use Shift+Click to select all the photos I need with 2 clicks, since they are sorted by time.
Hope this helps.
Michael
I appreciate your input as another way to categorize. I do my categorization in Lightroom using keywords and export them by folder which is what I upload to Smugmug.
Miachael, Smugmug tries to caters to the pro but because it is trying to please everyone it falls short of pleasing anyone, except those who just use Smugmug to display photos.
Those who make a living from weddings have certain needs that are not either met by Smugmug or met in a very poorly manner. Like I said, is like SM saw an opportunity from Pros that like how their images look big and added some features to keep them happy.
But like I said, that was easily justified by the low cost of SM. But once you raised the prices with nothing in return, it is very hard to justify using a fragmented system for Pros- galleries in one place and events in another. To many clicks.
Instead of trying to please everyone, SM may have to define to whom is really for and do a rocking system for them.
Just think what was the reaction of SM users when the price was raised. Do you remember how Twitter went crazy? Now, consider what would happen if what SM finally give us is a facelift or some lame features? So SM better do something that is light years ahead of everyone if you want to impress those who are SM agnostic.
I am sure you will agree with me that one of the most important thing of any system is client experience. I personally want to give my clients am stellar experience when they come to see their images. That is one of the reasons why I moved from Pictage to Smugmug. The biggest complaint I had from my clients about Pictage was that they could not appreciate their photos because Pictage would display small. With SM I could share larger images. But that is just one part. The mobile experience is another.
I am willing to pay more if my clients are happy. happy clients are great referral source.
So I conducted a test.
I uploaded several galleries to Smugmug and a new system called Pass to get client experience feedback.
I first released their SM event and allowed them to view it for several day. So SM was the first experience they had.
Then, few days later I sent them their event using Pass to see how they responded. I told them I needed their feedback about their experience with each system.
This is a typical response: "I like this new gallery (Pass) much better than another one (SM). I like how it looks, and it's definitely easier to use."
Now Pass is more expensive ($29) per gallery per year, but as a Pro I am willing to pay more for something that provide a stellar experience to my client and produce larger benefits in the long run.
Now, I share this in the hope that SM will give us Pros, a system that respond to our needs.
Have you seen the problems they have with Pass, I too have been on the fence about using SmugMug and Pass, but I just can not justify paying $29 per gallery per year, plus the fact that the print prices are set and there are only 3 sizes offered. And since I have been on the fence, I have been reading everything in their facebook group. There are problems galore, everyday, seems to be every hour. I am happy with SmugMug, sure I was looking at cheaper alternative, but PASS, is not it. Everytime I search for another alternative, I find myself sticking with SmugMug. Do I wish they would hurry up with the changes that are coming, yes, do I think they are way behind on that yes. But for me with no coding skills, (so my own website is out of the question), and as someone who wants my site to look different, even if it is a little bit, (unlike PASS, where it all looks the same) and the ability to offer many different print sizes and finishes, plus set my prices, keeps me at SmugMug.
And right now PASS is so confusing to photographers, and clients alike that in each gallery photographers have taken to creating how to files to have at the top of every gallery. I think SmugMug Sharing is also better because when you share a photo from SmugMug, your link stays with it. (to facebook) and it is a size you determine. With Pass, your link stays, but it is a thumbnail sized and you have to click through to see it at a bigger size.
I could go on and on, but really comparing SmugMug to Pass is like comparing Apples to Oranges, and for me spending a set rate versus, a rate per gallery (or event) is much better, especially since I shoot a lot of landscape, as a personal thing, along with sports for my childrens' school, I don't want to have to pay 29 dollars to show off my personal projects for longer than 30 days.
And one more thing about PASS, if you have anyone set to a VIP, when the gallery is about to expire, they also get a renewal notice, (to upgrade the gallery for $29), so if you set your client, plus the vendors (if it was a wedding) they will all get the "renewal notice" and PASS has no desire or plans to change this. So remember when you say you are not getting what you want here, there are drawbacks to every hosting site. I believe that SmugMug is one of the best for photographers, and while PASS may try to give you what you want, they are first and foremost in it for them, they not as photographer friendly as SmugMug.
If you do the math, and say I had 5 clients in one month, so if I wanted to offer them all that PASS has to offer, I would have to upgrade each client's gallery for a year with only 10 years cold storage, to the tune of $29 each. (for a total of $145 that month) At the end of that year, renewal notices would got out. With SmugMug, you pay a set fee per month or year, it is constant, your photos are active as long as you want them to be active, and you could have 100 galleries or 1 gallery a month. It is totally up to you, and you don't have to worry about paying to keep the gallery active longer than 30 days, or passing the additional $29 on to your clients.
Comments
I didn't mean to be ugly toward you as a person, it was just an overall feeling...Last summer when many of us questioned the price increase and nothing (much) to show for it that was already after a year+ wait for something to come out of darkroom... So now 2011, 2012 and who knows for 2013 that is a very long time in the tech world for a new version of an Internet product.
Now if what we are being told is true, a total rewrite of SM then maybe that's worth it, but I don't think anyone can fault us for being cynical as we have been told "it's going to be great" for numerous years.
That being said, I don't get up and kick my dog every morning because Smugmug looks dated and [insert fabulous UI photo service here] looks great. I'm going to try and not fuss about it again till December when my renewal time is here.
Fuji X shooter
Thoughts and Images
For example, Thomas Hawk made this post this morning of Michael Bonocore and his dog Rocky that went viral:
https://plus.google.com/+ThomasHawk/posts/H8wPMKJDRC9
I think Havanese is referring to "The Bonocore", and I couldn't agree more. It's offensive. Everybody knows it's Internet software, how fast it turns, everyone knows the stakes. Most people are very loyal subscribers, and here's this 'guy' doing gimmicky poses for photos. 721 posts he's logged on Dgrin. I believe that's less than the number of "The Bonocore" photos he's starred in.
Andy logged 721 in a weekend.
Less goofing - more reality. Please.
Malte
Understood Malte...I do have many other jobs here at SmugMug. Luckily we have a great team of Support Heroes that handle most of the intake of questions here. I try to stay out of their way unless I am needed. They do a fantastic job, and they love handling support questions here, so I let them do what they love to do (and trust me, they love their jobs).
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I feel the concept of "Work hard and play hard" is extremely important for an organization such as SmugMug where highly skilled developers pretty much have their pick of companies to work for. It is clear to me from posts by Baldy and Bonocore that the SM crew is working extremely hard and is excited about what they are working on. I personally can't really ask for anything more and will just need to continue being patient as I feel we'll be better off in the long run as SM customers.
If SmugMug was just serious all the time, I envision they would lose that magic that has kept me a customer for years and just turn into another company that is all about the bottom line.
I feel SM has been taking a lot of heat lately and I'm sure it keeps that fire lit for them but I also know that being appreciated for what they do can help morale as well
Sincerely happy customer for many years to come,
Dave Veffer
http://plusdave.com
Very nicely said ToxMox, completely agree with you.
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Baldy ~ Are we getting closer to the new smugmug updates? Anything? Throw us a crumb or something???
Hi Cindy,
I know you don't want to hear about how we cannot give you a time frame, but alas, we cannot. But I can tell you that the team is burning the midnight oil in SmugMug HQ a couple of nights a week, even on the weekends. This team is pretty excited!
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I sure hope we are all blown away whenever the big reveal comes. C'mon Smuggy!
Great to hear Nick!
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Obviously I am a little behind the update curve and this thread has been somewhat informative as I pondering why I should continue my subscription given the price increase has yielded few enhancements.
The "update" offered nothing substantial to assist with my decision making process as to stay or seek an alternative. I am not particularly interested in comparisons on how other sites / organizations perform product development or releases. I am not paying them ~$300.00 for a subscription; therefore, I dont care.
I dont pay for "passionate" posts, cute usernames and face painted super heros. I pay for a product should be flexible enough to meet my needs as a small freelance photographer and product enhancements that keep pace with industry trends and other competitors offerings. I dont see it.
Not defining a launch date "for the next big thing" or offering a list of product enhancements is simply a copout and if secrecy is thought of as cute marketing ploy - I'm not buying it. Ok. Great - burning the midnight oil (who isnt these days?). Lots of talk, posting and "feeling" but little action.
Recently, I spent four - six hours using the free trial in PhotoShelter. Within that short time frame, I have been to customize the my potential site far more easily than I can in SM. More options. More intutive interface. In the SM world, I would need spend MORE to achieve the same result. Plus, the order fulfillment process was simple enough even a non-IT customer can complete with ease (which, btw, is the biggest complaints I received from my customers when trying to order on SM).
What will I do? Dont know. Been with SM for two years. Make the leap of faith, renew, and trust all the talk, posting and "feeling" will result in a value added product that reinforces my belief the subscription investment is worth it? will it meet my goals? Better service MY customers? Dont know. Cant answer. Have no real concrete information.
Like many, I am frustrated over a price increase (with little value add to go with it), but more importantly dissappointed in the secrecy approach to keep existing customers "hanging". Its time to stand up and say - here it is! and the date is now!
Best Regards,
W. Jones
Hi Wendell,
I will be responding to you on Google+ as well. I understand the frustrations. I really do. But we have made a decision to not discuss timing on products and features, or discuss what we have on the agenda, because we have been burned before. We do believe however, that if you stick with us, you will be glad you did. And remember, we do have unlimited Storage for all your backup needs, which some of our competitors do not have.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I respect the decision and hopeful the next big thing ... Whenever it does happen ... Is truly to the delight of the SM customer base (and my paying customers).
Again, thanks for your time and response.
Your customer base awaits ...
Wendell
As a long time faithful Smugger who whole heartedly has planned to stick around, I can't help but shout loudly "Amen". Come on SM! The long drawn out wait & excuses are getting very very old. My hope is beginning to diminish rather quickly... much like a setting sun :-(
But what I cannot understand how paying more has yielded lower customer support.
I went over to support to report an issue I have been having and I was surprised to see that customer support chat is no longer available. Nor there is a phone number we can call for support. Sony was left with the only option of submitting a support ticket. Well, I said, no biggie as in the past bathe support "heroes" answer pretty fast, even in the wee hours of the morning. Well, guess what, I has been over 24 hours since then, no answer.
Very bad form.
We get a price hike without anything new to justify it. We give Smugmug the benefit of the doubt and wait... And wait.... And wait... And wait... And to make matter worst, we are getting less than we had for more money. Bad support is about the only thing I will not accept.
I wish I didn't renew my subscription. honestly. I am very dissapointed. And I have began to look and test new alternatives.
So, Smugmug, you better deliver something so amazing that you blow us away. You better do it soon. I dont want to see window dressings to a very poorly design and fragmented system. Otherwise it will be hasta la vista baby...
I wish SM the best with the eventual update. In fact, I still have a personal SM account. The easiest thing would have been to stay. The right thing for me, however, was to leave.
Blog: http://blog.scolephoto.com
GibsonVisuals Photography
Placerville, California
That doesn't sound like SmugMug support at all, I'm sorry you had that experience. My guess is that your email never arrived in the inbox beacause we answer hundreds and hundres of support tickets each day and usually within minutes. We are staffed nearly 24/7/365. The live chat box is not always available and only staffed certain times of the day which you can see on the link below.
http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/684824-where-is-the-help-desk-chat-box-
I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I can assure you that the Customer Support hasn't faltered. Give us another try
http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/emails/new
Support Hero
Completely off topic, but how do the dogs react to Google Glass?
anything can be amazing
Chaselton, my dog couldn't comprehend when I told him "Just say, Glass, take a picture"
#EpicFail
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
This is what I am concerned about Smugmug.
To me Smugmug was born to be the paid competition to Flicker way back then.
Then, on the way they discover that the pros loved the way images looked at Smugmug, meaning big. While every other pro service was showing small previews to protect pros' copyright, some prefered the large display Smugmug offered. But wait, you could not sell through Smugmug. And the light went ON at Smugmug: "let's find a way to make them happy and we will have more clients" they said. And Smugmug Pro was born.
But here is the problem. Smugmug was made to work for pros using a sledge hammer. he only three real advantages Smugmug Pro offered to Pros was large display, choice of lab and lower cost. But the way the backend works, well, sucks. That to say that it is not really design for Pros but just made to work for Pros.
Most of the stuff Smugmug offers is great for consumer and amateurs but not for working pros.
Just one example how Smugmug is not efficient:
If I want to categorize my images for a wedding in the different aspects of the days (ceremony, reception, getting ready, etc) I have to create a gallery for each one and upload a gallery at the time. That forces me to be slaved next to a computer and makes the upload process of a wedding take forever. Not good for the bottom line. But we justified it because Smugmug was cheap and the images looked good.
Then, I have to go and create an event in a different area of Smugmug and pull the galleries into that event. Time consuming, redundant and laborious.
Smugmug pride itself i the deep level of customization. Well, that shows me that Smugmug still thinking of the amaterur and not on the Pro. I think if you ask us we want something that looks good and it is efficient, that does not tie us down in more administration work. Yes, you have Pros endorsing Smugmug, but they do not do it themselves but have employees that take care of this things.
Even the way clients purchase prints seems to be a after thought that was made to "fit" in their system.
Smugmug is no longer the great value that once was at $150. At double the price is where everyone else is now, even Pictage. Many other solutions now offer larger displays. So, what we getting for $300 a year? The same as everyone else. With one blog post, Smugmug took away the main reason many used Smugmug: it was s decent, cheap solution to the competition.
Hec, With Simply Studio Manegement I get a great lab, no commission, unlimited uploads and galleries, studio management, marketing tools, accounting for the same I am paying for Smugmug. Is like getting Smugmug, Quickbooks, Mailchimp, and ShootQ for $299 a year! And you pay no commission!!! So, you see, right now, Smugmug is not the best (never was) and not the cheaper. So, why should I stay with Smugmug? Well, you have to give me real reasons.
What do I expect to see to stay with Smugmug? A well thought out solution and design coherently for Pros. To save us time and makes us money.
So far, I am sad to say, I haven't see any indications of Smugmug going into that direction.
I have no problem if Smugmug wants to abandon the Pro market and want to concentrate is amateurs. But please, tell us now.
It's a pain to set up elsewhere, but I feel as though SM is forcing me into it. I can't stay for 'feelings' or 'excitement'. That would be a ridiculous business decision.
If SM wants to keep their old customers, such as those of us who have used SM for 5+ years, while we are being actively recruited by other site hosts offering sweet deals and two month full pro level free trials, SM might consider grandfathering more in at their old rate. Then, when the big release happens, the rate increase could kick in for that group when their renewal dates come up.
Everything I want, such as those wedding categories mentioned above, and an easier shopping experience for clients, is already available for half the price or less by competitors. It's a bad business decision to pay more for less, so I think I'm just going to go down to the cheapest option when renewal comes up, and then link all current weddings and e session clients to another site for their shopping. Having both the cheapest Sm site as well as the $150 Z. site for a year is still less expensive than staying with my current SM pro setup. Then, after all this years weddings are on the new site and the transition is made, my old Sm site will expire and be gone. It's the one year and three month plan the SM is forcing me into, since business is business.
I am not afraid of dates. My clients get a deadline for me to deliver what I promise. In writing. Frankly, SM refusing to commit to dates feels like a huge cop out, especially when the price has doubled.
If the shopping experience was better, such as allowing mobile users to buy from tablets, the site might have kept paying for itself. But right now, the experience is plain horrible for most clients, whom Google anylitics tells me are using mobile devices.
The overall sales reflect that fact. At the old price, most years, the site paid for itself, but no longer. When the shopping is easier, profits go up.
There are two ways for SM to turn a profit. One is by charging more to photographers who are paying them to host.
The other is to make the shopping experience the easiest and best out there, on all devices, so that their 15 percent take of each sale is multiplied by many millions.
Sadly, SM took the first, far less profitable and shortsighted option, rather than the latter. But we all have to do what we feel is best for our own businesses.
The recent blog on why I am not selling enough was interesting - the theme was ... Well ... Subscriber you aren't setting up your site correctly. You must do this ... Do that ... Buy button here ... Activate this ... Etc. God forbid the standard site and pages have the appropriate features, buttons and settings already activated, visible, present and ready to roll. No "tweaking" required.
Price increase, lawsuits, secrecy, delays, etc. things that make you go hmmmmm ...
Now off to recover the lost sale ...
Hi David,
Thank you for your feedback. It is hard to hear that you do not think we cater to the pros out there, but what we strive is to create a product that is both beneficial for all types of photographers. Pros, weekend warriors, beginners, part timers, hobbyists. I hope you feel some of our upcoming changes help alliviate your pain points.
Just a side note for what you describe above. This is what I do when I have to split my wedding photos into separate galleries for Pre Ceremony, Ceremony, Portraits, etc. I upload all my photos into one main gallery, and then sort that gallery by time captured. I simply use the Move To Another Gallery tool to then move them over into each new gallery. I just need to use Shift+Click to select all the photos I need with 2 clicks, since they are sorted by time.
Hope this helps.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I apologize for the lost sale. I would like to help you make sure it doesn't happen again. I can take a look and see if I can dig up any information about changes in your pricelists. That may help you identify when you changed it.
Michael
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I appreciate your input as another way to categorize. I do my categorization in Lightroom using keywords and export them by folder which is what I upload to Smugmug.
Miachael, Smugmug tries to caters to the pro but because it is trying to please everyone it falls short of pleasing anyone, except those who just use Smugmug to display photos.
Those who make a living from weddings have certain needs that are not either met by Smugmug or met in a very poorly manner. Like I said, is like SM saw an opportunity from Pros that like how their images look big and added some features to keep them happy.
But like I said, that was easily justified by the low cost of SM. But once you raised the prices with nothing in return, it is very hard to justify using a fragmented system for Pros- galleries in one place and events in another. To many clicks.
Instead of trying to please everyone, SM may have to define to whom is really for and do a rocking system for them.
Just think what was the reaction of SM users when the price was raised. Do you remember how Twitter went crazy? Now, consider what would happen if what SM finally give us is a facelift or some lame features? So SM better do something that is light years ahead of everyone if you want to impress those who are SM agnostic.
I am sure you will agree with me that one of the most important thing of any system is client experience. I personally want to give my clients am stellar experience when they come to see their images. That is one of the reasons why I moved from Pictage to Smugmug. The biggest complaint I had from my clients about Pictage was that they could not appreciate their photos because Pictage would display small. With SM I could share larger images. But that is just one part. The mobile experience is another.
I am willing to pay more if my clients are happy. happy clients are great referral source.
So I conducted a test.
I uploaded several galleries to Smugmug and a new system called Pass to get client experience feedback.
I first released their SM event and allowed them to view it for several day. So SM was the first experience they had.
Then, few days later I sent them their event using Pass to see how they responded. I told them I needed their feedback about their experience with each system.
This is a typical response: "I like this new gallery (Pass) much better than another one (SM). I like how it looks, and it's definitely easier to use."
Now Pass is more expensive ($29) per gallery per year, but as a Pro I am willing to pay more for something that provide a stellar experience to my client and produce larger benefits in the long run.
Now, I share this in the hope that SM will give us Pros, a system that respond to our needs.
And right now PASS is so confusing to photographers, and clients alike that in each gallery photographers have taken to creating how to files to have at the top of every gallery. I think SmugMug Sharing is also better because when you share a photo from SmugMug, your link stays with it. (to facebook) and it is a size you determine. With Pass, your link stays, but it is a thumbnail sized and you have to click through to see it at a bigger size.
I could go on and on, but really comparing SmugMug to Pass is like comparing Apples to Oranges, and for me spending a set rate versus, a rate per gallery (or event) is much better, especially since I shoot a lot of landscape, as a personal thing, along with sports for my childrens' school, I don't want to have to pay 29 dollars to show off my personal projects for longer than 30 days.
And one more thing about PASS, if you have anyone set to a VIP, when the gallery is about to expire, they also get a renewal notice, (to upgrade the gallery for $29), so if you set your client, plus the vendors (if it was a wedding) they will all get the "renewal notice" and PASS has no desire or plans to change this. So remember when you say you are not getting what you want here, there are drawbacks to every hosting site. I believe that SmugMug is one of the best for photographers, and while PASS may try to give you what you want, they are first and foremost in it for them, they not as photographer friendly as SmugMug.
If you do the math, and say I had 5 clients in one month, so if I wanted to offer them all that PASS has to offer, I would have to upgrade each client's gallery for a year with only 10 years cold storage, to the tune of $29 each. (for a total of $145 that month) At the end of that year, renewal notices would got out. With SmugMug, you pay a set fee per month or year, it is constant, your photos are active as long as you want them to be active, and you could have 100 galleries or 1 gallery a month. It is totally up to you, and you don't have to worry about paying to keep the gallery active longer than 30 days, or passing the additional $29 on to your clients.