manual sort upload choice top or bottom of gallery

dennismullen

My old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending.
Because Ascending / Descending with Manual Sort isn't available in the new smugmug the unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first!

This bug has blown the order of my pictures in every gallery.
Some galleries have hundreds of pictures that took many hours to arrange.

Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort is needed as it determines whether newly uploaded pictures are placed at the top or bottom of the gallery.

Not only has this change messed up all my galleries but I have to drag every new upload from the bottom of the gallery to the top now.
This is no easy task when a gallery has hundreds of pictures, waiting for all the picture thumbnails in Organizer to refresh, etc.

Please fix the option to have a choice of where new uploads are put in Manual Sort by allowing the 1-9 / 9-1 choice like it was in the old smugmug.

Allen

I would think you'd want to set "auto" sort like that. On legacy you turned "auto" off and ALL manual sorts were a one time shot.

dennismullen

I choose to manually sort my pictures, more or less, newest first in the gallery so do not want Auto Sort.
Dropping new pictures to the bottom of the gallery is as far from where I want them as possible.

If you have hundreds of pictures in the gallery the only way to move the new picture to the top of the gallery is with the organizer.
You have to wait a very long time for all the thumbnails to draw and drag the picture from the bottom to the top.

When you unveil smugmug just opening "Gallery Settings" blows the order of your pictures in that gallery. A Major BUG!

There is more about this here...

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237730

Cheers,

HeroOfCanton

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for explaining what you'd like to see happen. I don't know enough about the original code to reliably say whether or not the way you had it working before was by design, was a bug or was just an oversight on our part, on the surface having manual sort and an option for ascending and descending would seem to be mutually exclusive. However, I certainly can see the appeal of what your saying and how it would be useful to you and your situation.

That said, this is a feature request, not a bug. I understand that it isn't how it was working before and that it's not how you'd like it to work, but that doesn't mean it's a bug. Take the 'Map This' option, for example. We got rid of it in the new SmugMug, that it doesn't exist isn't a bug and bringing it back would be a feature request (one that has been requested, actually.) The sorting is working as intended, you want to add functionality and that's fine, that's still a feature request. I will pass this along to those that make feature decisions and let them know of your use case. I completely agree with you that, in your situation, it would be helpful to have back. However, I will temper that by saying that we'd love to please everyone, but we simply can't. Like always, I can't make any guarantees that this gets implemented.

Allow me to sum up: You want the ability, in essence, to choose where newly uploaded images go, either to the beginning or the end of the gallery. Yes?

dennismullen

Plainly the way the old smugmug worked was by design. You call this a feature request and not a bug because it is more convenient.
Again I get a response refusing to acknowledge that everyone who unveils from the old smugmug with a gallery setting of Manual Sort and Descending will get their picture order scrambled when they use Gallery Settings!

Big Problem!

Richard

The ability to choose top or bottom used to be there and it was useful. I too would like to see it restored.

In any event, migration must not be allowed to change the existing sort order of legacy galleries, regardless of how that order was created. Unless the user chooses to change the sort after migration, I fail to see how altering the existing order can be considered a feature and not a bug.

mbonocore

Richard wrote: »

The ability to choose top or bottom used to be there and it was useful. I too would like to see it restored.

In any event, migration must not be allowed to change the existing sort order of legacy galleries, regardless of how that order was created. Unless the user chooses to change the sort after migration, I fail to see how altering the existing order can be considered a feature and not a bug.

This is in Feature Request. Dennis asked for reimplementing of the Manual Sort Ascending/Descending in this thread. That is a feature request.

Dennis' original issue reported in a sperate thread is being investigated, but has yet to be recreated.

dennismullen

I'm also asking for the arrange check box back which was was quick and easy.

It's interesting that a gallery keeps the old settings after unveiling and uploaded pictures are dropped at the top of the gallery until the owner makes the mistake of using Gallery Settings.
Everyone who unveils from the old smugmug with a gallery setting of Manual Sort and Descending will get their picture order scrambled when they use Gallery Settings and from then on uploaded pictures are sent to the bottom of the gallery!

Cheers,

WinsomeWorks

dennismullen wrote: »

My old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending.
Because Ascending / Descending with Manual Sort isn't available in the new smugmug the unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first!

This bug has blown the order of my pictures in every gallery.
Some galleries have hundreds of pictures that took many hours to arrange.

Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort is needed as it determines whether newly uploaded pictures are placed at the top or bottom of the gallery.

Not only has this change messed up all my galleries but I have to drag every new upload from the bottom of the gallery to the top now.
This is no easy task when a gallery has hundreds of pictures, waiting for all the picture thumbnails in Organizer to refresh, etc.

Please fix the option to have a choice of where new uploads are put in Manual Sort by allowing the 1-9 / 9-1 choice like it was in the old smugmug.

Ok, I really need to hear something "from above" saying it's an accepted bug (that simply accessing gallery settings when I unveil will cause all my photos to be re-arranged if I had manual sort) and that it will be fixed!!!! I will, in upcoming weeks, be starting to figure out what all I need to do, save, write down, or change in Legacy before trying the New Smug (because I have a huge site). But this is one thing that will make the entire process horrendous for me. I have many hundreds of galleries. Not only will having to re-arrange every single gallery make me extremely ticked... I don't even know how I'd find the time to do it. Please, please, please, please, please, SmugMug-- put this in Bug Reporting if you're really breaking everyone's gallery arrangements in this case when we unveil, because it's disingenuous to call it a "feature" to simply decide NOT to break our arrangements... especially when you're not telling people that's what unveiling will do to them!!!! It's extremely nasty to do that to your long-term paying customers. Just don't break our arrangements, and get this on the Bug list fast, before you get a lot more people angry. No matter how the old tools worked compared to the new, you can certainly get something in place that doesn't ruin what arrangements we had!

dennismullen

Still a big pain.
Makes me curse every day!

dennismullen

No Manual Sort / Decending Problems
The unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings if your old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first.
This is because new smugmug is missing the option to choose a gallery setting of Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort and defaults to Ascending (1-9).

The bug also occurs when a quick setting from the old smugmug includes this setting.
Trying to use the old quick setting in the new smugmug causes the same situation where the picture order gets rearranged again.

Also the old quick setting can not be deleted.

Cheers,

dennismullen

Still not addressed!

WinsomeWorks

dennismullen wrote: »

The unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings if your old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first.
This is because new smugmug is missing the option to choose a gallery setting of Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort and defaults to Ascending (1-9).

The bug also occurs when a quick setting from the old smugmug includes this setting.
Trying to use the old quick setting in the new smugmug causes the same situation where the picture order gets rearranged again.

Also the old quick setting can not be deleted.

Cheers,

Good Grief!!! Is this still not even on the Active Bug list? This is one of the 3 biggest reasons I can't even start the migration process. I can only migrate once, right? So all of my galleries set this way would have to be manually re-arranged once migrated to New SmugMug. I just cannot for the life of me see how this was implemented wrong in New SmugMug, and/or why it is not near the very top of the priority list.

Richard

I would also like to hear an update on this problem. Like Anna, I won't even consider migrating till I hear that this has been resolved.

Michael?

LPC

I'd like to hear of one other person who has experienced this as I don't think anyone else has reported it yet in all this time. The crucial and extremely particular order of photographs in all of my galleries, meticulously arranged in Legacy, have not been broken on the new site. The initial problem I had was quickly resolved. Believe me I would be practically suicidal if the order in my galleries had been changed and all my galleries are manual sort only.

So, has anyone else actually experienced this?

WinsomeWorks

LPC wrote: »

I'd like to hear of one other person who has experienced this as I don't think anyone else has reported it yet in all this time. The crucial and extremely particular order of photographs in all of my galleries, meticulously arranged in Legacy, have not been broken on the new site. The initial problem I had was quickly resolved. Believe me I would be practically suicidal if the order in my galleries had been changed and all my galleries are manual sort only.

So, has anyone else actually experienced this?

Pretty sure Al has talked about this, but we'd have to ask him for sure. And plenty of others too, but I don't have time to look for the threads now.

dennismullen

LPC wrote: »

I'd like to hear of one other person who has experienced this as I don't think anyone else has reported it yet in all this time. The crucial and extremely particular order of photographs in all of my galleries, meticulously arranged in Legacy, have not been broken on the new site. The initial problem I had was quickly resolved. Believe me I would be practically suicidal if the order in my galleries had been changed and all my galleries are manual sort only.

So, has anyone else actually experienced this?

You have already announced how you don't consider this a problem because you prefer your gallery to default to ascending and this problem is when your gallery is set to Manual Sort and Descending.

LPC

I just think i'ts odd how no one else seems to be having the problem when they migrate and Smugmug have already said that they can't recreate it (as mentioned here - http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=240012&highlight=manual+sort).
If you search for it in the forums all you get is one person reporting it and two people who are worried that it might happen to them when you would expect to find thread after thread. Seems strange - is there only one person using Smugmug who uses Manaul Sort/Descending?

WinsomeWorks

quick settins,bug, manual sort, descending / ascending
[ETA: that silly title was not supposed to be the title. It was supposed to be the tags. And I spelled one wrong. Great. Could someone remove that title? Thanks!]

LPC wrote: »

I just think i'ts odd how no one else seems to be having the problem when they migrate and Smugmug have already said that they can't recreate it (as mentioned here - http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=240012&highlight=manual+sort).
If you search for it in the forums all you get is one person reporting it and two people who are worried that it might happen to them when you would expect to find thread after thread. Seems strange - is there only one person using Smugmug who uses Manaul Sort/Descending?

I think what you're not realizing is that probably most people who've migrated (many of whom never show up on DGrin anyway) may not have ever gone into their Gallery Settings yet on New Smug. And the great majority of people probably have their galleries set in the opposite order, the one that has been kept as an option (or rather default) in New Smug. so all of those people will be fine (for now, until they go into Settings & save, & if they had the now-non-existing option set before, they may not even realize it's now missing because they went into Settings for some other reason, not for re-organizing their pics. So they "save". After that, it could take awhile til they even figure out what it was that mixed their photos up. So it could be months down the road til a lot of people get mad about this.

Just because not knowing it's a bug may be the experience of the majority, doesn't mean it's not a huge PITA bug for a small minority. That small minority, of whom Dennis & Richard & I may be part, have a right to expect SmugMug to not completely rearrange 10s of 1000s of our photos, as we'll already have enough freaking work to keep us busy w/o that kind of silliness!

One more thing that seems to be completely forgotten in this discussion of whether it's a bug or not-- & Dennis has made this clear enough times so I don't get why the insistence on "it's not a bug": The Quick Settings-- umm, since we have them already set for 100s of galleries, and yet one of the Quick Setting options got accidentally (I must assume) removed, that is a real, honest, ridiculous problem. I mean, in that case what do you really want the person to do???? Go in & manually fix hundreds of galleries because of a design flaw that should be easily fixed? I'm only assuming the removal of that option was an accident (i.e. BUG) because who would actually plan to make one option in Quick Settings not carry over from Legacy Smug... and keep all the others intact??! Yes, right. No one who was really paying attention to what that would mean. If New Smug is really designed that way, who is it that's making a ridiculous assumption that no one would want to do manual / ascending? And find me someone who truly believes that everyone who had that setting in hundreds of galleries wants that to get all screwed up the first time they save gallery settings!! Probably the design flaw was done by an engineer who just wasn't comparing the old settings side-by-side and/or didn't see why they were important to keep the same.

mbonocore

Dennis, this isn't a bug, and is in the Feature Request list. Merging the two threads

dennismullen

mbonocore wrote: »

Dennis, this isn't a bug, and is in the Feature Request list. Merging the two threads

Saying it isn't a bug doesn't make it so.

I explain everything very carefully but you just don't read it.

The unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings if your old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first.
This is because new smugmug is missing the option to choose a gallery setting of Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort and defaults to Ascending (1-9).

The bug also occurs when a quick setting from the old smugmug includes this setting.
Trying to use the old quick setting in the new smugmug causes the same situation where the picture order gets rearranged again.

Also the old quick setting can not be deleted.

mbonocore

dennismullen wrote: »

The unveiled gallery breaks when you open Gallery Settings if your old smugmug galleries were set to Manual Sort and Descending causing all the pictures to be rearranged oldest first.
This is because new smugmug is missing the option to choose a gallery setting of Ascending / Descending in Manual Sort and defaults to Ascending (1-9).

Yes, I do understand that, but adding this functionality will prevent the issue you describe. Either way, the solution is the same.

WinsomeWorks

mbonocore wrote: »

Yes, I do understand that, but adding this functionality will prevent the issue you describe. Either way, the solution is the same.

When you say "adding this functionality", what do you mean exactly? Which one? There are 2 things missing, and they're both breaking already-worked-on gallery sorts migrated from Legacy. If the ascending option gets added again, since it was missed in New Smug, that's great. But it also needs to be included in the Quick settings options. Also, like I said in Post #19, there's simply no justification for calling it a feature & letting it grow mold in Feature Requests, because a missing element that screws up the order of gazillions of galleries isn't just some frilly feature. Here's how you know it's a BUG: " because who would actually plan to make one option in Quick Settings not carry over from Legacy Smug... and keep all the others intact??! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > " < (quoted from my post) Only someone who did not understand the important reason for keeping the same setting: so that people can migrate safely without worrying about the mountain of work you're creating for them by goofing with basic stuff like sort order. It's really sad how little care a person is getting who has gazillions of galleries that can't cross over correctly & no one will help him or help prevent other hapless people from falling into the same mess. The SmugMug I knew used to show a lot more care than that.

Your insistence on dropping this into Features (for no good reason) is yet one more thing that keeps me & others from migrating!! It's just so incredibly frustrating how little care we're feeling around here, especially when yet another week goes by with so few fixes. That tells me this one will be months, maybe years down the road! So when I'm forced to migrate, you're gonna give me & others hours of needless work just because you can, instead of just fixing this promptly. Every time I start to get hopeful, I have to waste time re-explaining something that then still never makes it to the correct list, a list which is already 2 pages long & shrunk by maybe a couple fixes this week (not counting the stuff that's supposed to be on it & isn't) AAaaaaaaaargh!!

mbonocore

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

When you say "adding this functionality", what do you mean exactly? Which one? There are 2 things missing, and they're both breaking already-worked-on gallery sorts migrated from Legacy. If the ascending option gets added again, since it was missed in New Smug, that's great. But it also needs to be included in the Quick settings options. Also, like I said in Post #19, there's simply no justification for calling it a feature & letting it grow mold in Feature Requests, because a missing element that screws up the order of gazillions of galleries isn't just some frilly feature. Here's how you know it's a BUG: " because who would actually plan to make one option in Quick Settings not carry over from Legacy Smug... and keep all the others intact??! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > " < (quoted from my post) Only someone who did not understand the important reason for keeping the same setting: so that people can migrate safely without worrying about the mountain of work you're creating for them by goofing with basic stuff like sort order.

Your insistence on dropping this into Features (for no good reason) is yet one more thing that keeps me & others from migrating!! It's just so incredibly frustrating how little care we're feeling around here, especially when yet another week goes by with so few fixes. That tells me this one will be months, maybe years down the road! So when I'm forced to migrate, you're gonna give me & others hours of needless work just because you can, instead of just fixing this promptly. Every time I start to get hopeful, I have to waste time re-explaining something that then still never makes it to the correct list, a list which is already 2 pages long & shrunk by maybe a couple fixes this week (not counting the stuff that's supposed to be on it & isn't) AAaaaaaaaargh!!

Bug - Functionality that is there, that isn't working properly

Feature - Functionality that is not there, but is requested.

As I have stated many many times, the label of bug vs request has ZERO impact on when it gets addressed. So lobbying to have it labled a bug does nothing to help get this addressed. In fact, the time I have to keep coming back to keep responding does, because it takes time away from me making a case to the people that will have this on their plate. We have received this, and it will be prioritized accordingly. I promise. Bug vs Feature will have zero impact on the state of it.

WinsomeWorks

mbonocore wrote: »

Bug - Functionality that is there, that isn't working properly

Feature - Functionality that is not there, but is requested.

As I have stated many many times, the label of bug vs request has ZERO impact on when it gets addressed. So lobbying to have it labled a bug does nothing to help get this addressed. In fact, the time I have to keep coming back to keep responding does, because it takes time away from me making a case to the people that will have this on their plate. We have received this, and it will be prioritized accordingly. I promise. Bug vs Feature will have zero impact on the state of it.

It doesn't look that way. I edited my post. The SmugMug I used to know didn't treat people's time that way. That's why there should evidently be either a 3rd area, or a change of definition, to save what's left of Smug's integrity:

Bug - Functionality that is there, that isn't working properly

Quick Fix Needed -- Former Functionality that should still be there because when missing, it breaks stuff in transition, and shouldn't need to be begged for once again since we've already been there, done that.

Feature - Functionality that is not there, but is requested.

mbonocore

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

It doesn't look that way. I edited my post. The SmugMug I used to know didn't treat people's time that way. That's why there should evidently be either a 3rd area, or a change of definition, to save what's left of Smug's integrity:

Bug - Functionality that is there, that isn't working properly

Quick Fix Needed -- Former Functionality that should still be there because when missing, it breaks stuff in transition, and shouldn't need to be begged for once again since we've already been there, done that.

Feature - Functionality that is not there, but is requested.

Many bugs/features actually are quick fixes, based on how many people it affects. I have just a small handful who have reported this, and they are all here. This has never been brought up via help@smugmug, only the couple people here. I know it's important to you, and I have made that very clear in my dgrin issue review meetings.

Richard

mbonocore wrote: »

Yes, I do understand that, but adding this functionality will prevent the issue you describe. Either way, the solution is the same.

OK, so let me see if I've got this right. There are two issues: (1) the sort order breaks when migrating if the gallery is set to manual/descending and (2) in the new software, there is no choice about whether new pics are placed at the top or bottom in a manual sort gallery. Right, so far?

So is SmugMug now acknowledging that issue (1) exists and proposing to solve it by creating a feature will also address issue (2) if and when it is implemented?

Sorry if this beating a dead horse, but there is a huge difference between the above statement and a previous statement that issue (1) could not be recreated and (by implication) may not exist. Although I would like to see issue (2) addressed, it's not a show-stopper for me. Issue (1) is, so I'm looking for a promise from SmugMug that migrating is not going to screw up the manual sort order of any of my galleries.

dennismullen

Richard wrote: »

OK, so let me see if I've got this right. There are two issues: (1) the sort order breaks when migrating if the gallery is set to manual/descending and (2) in the new software, there is no choice about whether new pics are placed at the top or bottom in a manual sort gallery. Right, so far?

So is SmugMug now acknowledging that issue (1) exists and proposing to solve it by creating a feature will also address issue (2) if and when it is implemented?

Sorry if this beating a dead horse, but there is a huge difference between the above statement and a previous statement that issue (1) could not be recreated and (by implication) may not exist. Although I would like to see issue (2) addressed, it's not a show-stopper for me. Issue (1) is, so I'm looking for a promise from SmugMug that migrating is not going to screw up the manual sort order of any of my galleries.

Smugmug seems willing to let customers loose there picture arrangements, as happened to me, rather then fix this.

There is a third problem. (3) If you saved a quick setting with Manual Sort and Descending in legacy smugmug it follows you to new smugmug.
If you use it it sets up the same scenario again and looses your picture order, as happened to me, and quick settings can not be deleted.

The obvious solution is to put the choice of Ascending / Descending back.

Cheers,

Allen

There's no such thing as " Manual Sort and Descending" in legacy. There's "none and ascending" which
has been documented many times as needed for manual sort to stick.

Richard

The two settings I see are auto sort and sort direction. I have auto sort set to none usually, which is what I mean by manual. Sort direction is set to ascending or descending and I use both in different galleries depending on where I want new uploads to go. I don't use quick settings at all. I just want the existing order of the pics to be respected when I migrate.

dennismullen

Allen wrote: »

There's no such thing as " Manual Sort and Descending" in legacy. There's "none and ascending" which
has been documented many times as needed for manual sort to stick.

In Manual Sort the use of Ascending / Descending, also known as (1-9) / (9-1), is just a switch to determine if newly uploaded pictures are dropped to the top or bottom of the gallery.

This is how it worked in legacy smugmug.

Cheers,