Dennis, this is a lower priority....no one seems to be affected but you. We can't take away all of our resources from other things to fix an issue that affects literally, a handful of users. I apologize.
Dennis, this is a lower priority....no one seems to be affected but you. We can't take away all of our resources from other things to fix an issue that affects literally, a handful of users. I apologize.
Michael,
I find this upsetting. I have not migrated yet to the new SmugMug because of this problem. If you have no intention of fixing it ever, it would help me with my future planning if you would just say so.
I find this upsetting. I have not migrated yet to the new SmugMug because of this problem. If you have no intention of fixing it ever, it would help me with my future planning if you would just say so.
I think it's safe to say he said so. Eventually they will get rid of legacy and migrate everybody to new smug. If that happens before this gets fixed, the point is moot.
I'd highly recommend starting to work on your new smug site. Otherwise you'll be under a time crunch when they announce legacy is going away.
You're going to spend many hours building your new smug site. This is just one more thing you'll need to do to get the new site up and running. Waiting for smugmug to make changes is just delaying the inevitable. I spent somewhere around 9 months from migrating to unveiling my new site. You're not going to want to start the process when they announce you have 1 week... or just migrating you without warning, AKA smugmug style.
I find this upsetting. I have not migrated yet to the new SmugMug because of this problem. If you have no intention of fixing it ever, it would help me with my future planning if you would just say so.
Richard, I would not rely on this issue being fixed as a barometer as to weather you should unveil or not.
I would suggest finding a different way to sort your galleries.
You're not going to want to start the process when they announce you have 1 week... or just migrating you without warning, AKA smugmug style.
Dave
I have pretty high confidence that SM will give ample warning before forcing migration on anyone. But I have to agree that it looks like they're not going to fix this one before that time comes.
Richard, I would not rely on this issue being fixed as a barometer as to weather you should unveil or not.
I would suggest finding a different way to sort your galleries.
If I have understood this problem correctly, the issue is that the existing sort order of a number of my galleries is going to get scrambled when I migrate, namely those galleries with the current settings Auto Sort: None, Sort Direction: Ascending. So I have not even migrated yet. I realize that I can manually re-sort before unveiling, but I had been hoping to avoid that unnecessary work.
I have pretty high confidence that SM will give ample warning before forcing migration on anyone. But I have to agree that it looks like they're not going to fix this one before that time comes.
If I have understood this problem correctly, the issue is that the existing sort order of a number of my galleries is going to get scrambled when I migrate, namely those galleries with the current settings Auto Sort: None, Sort Direction: Ascending. So I have not even migrated yet. I realize that I can manually re-sort before unveiling, but I had been hoping to avoid that unnecessary work.
Understood Richard. You are right. You will have plenty of notice before you would need to migrate off of Legacy.
Regarding the arranging bug, I've filed that and I will have Bonocore add it to his list of things, where ever that is. From my testing, it only effects manual arranged, descending sorted galleries. I tested manual, ascending and auto arranged and they all come out in the same order going from legacy to new SmugMug.
I've thought of a possible work-around to the migration bug, but I have no way of safely testing it. It assumes that the scrambling is due something that is determined solely during the migration process. By temporarily changing the sort order setting at migration time, perhaps we can dodge the bullet.
Use a vulnerable legacy gallery (autosort: none, sort order: descending) that has been populated.
Change its sort order to ascending, but don't add anything new to the gallery or change the photo arrangement.
Migrate the gallery and make sure that it is configured for manual sort.
Check to see that the migrated gallery does not rearrange itself as it did in your testing.
Go back to the legacy gallery and change the sort order back to descending, and make sure that nothing has changed there or in the new gallery either.
It would be great if you could give this a try in your testing environment and let us know whether it works. We would still have to deal with the issue of where new additions go in the new version, but to me that's a minor annoyance rather than a royal PITA.
I could care less about the migration bug now. That bell can't be un-rung for me. I was screwed when I migrated and was trying to save the grief for others.
Michael has never read and grasped the problem judging by his description of it in the bug list.
I've been begging for the choice of top of gallery for newly uploaded pictures in manual sort ever since you took it away with the new smugmug!
It can't be that hard to implement and it is a pain to have to keep dragging every newly uploaded picture from the bottom to the top of the gallery.
I've thought of a possible work-around to the migration bug, but I have no way of safely testing it. It assumes that the scrambling is due something that is determined solely during the migration process. By temporarily changing the sort order setting at migration time, perhaps we can dodge the bullet.
Use a vulnerable legacy gallery (autosort: none, sort order: descending) that has been populated.
Change its sort order to ascending, but don't add anything new to the gallery or change the photo arrangement.
Migrate the gallery and make sure that it is configured for manual sort.
Check to see that the migrated gallery does not rearrange itself as it did in your testing.
Go back to the legacy gallery and change the sort order back to descending, and make sure that nothing has changed there or in the new gallery either.
It would be great if you could give this a try in your testing environment and let us know whether it works. We would still have to deal with the issue of where new additions go in the new version, but to me that's a minor annoyance rather than a royal PITA.
Thanks.
I've gone through the steps you've outlined here and it appears that nothing changes on migration to NSM, the ascending sort order is preserved and switching to descending after migration changes the order on Legacy and NSM.
You have set up the scenario correctly. You think everything is OK. Now go to Gallery Settings and change something (or not) and save.
Your carefully arranged pictures will change to sorted by date oldest first.
If you manually sort your pictures again and try to use a quick setting saved in the old smugmug with those settings in gallery settings it will break and rearrange your pictures again.
And you can't delete this faulty quick setting!.
Even if this problem didn't exist having uploaded pictures go to the bottom of the gallery instead of the top is a pain.
In old smugmug you could choose where they went by the setting of ascending / descending.
Bingo. There's the lynchpin, I see the problem now. I went into that gallery's settings, didn't change anything but saved it and now the images look like: http://screencast.com/t/Yi7Kih8ghHQ which is to say, they are in reverse order from what I manually arranged them to.
I'll have to dig some more into what exactly is happening here. It looks like it is reverse from what I arranged them to, I can't imagine I lucked into arranging them in descending chronological order originally, but I'll check.
You will see that if you try to use a quick setting saved in old smugmug with the settings sort none and descending carried over to new smugmug that it will show it is setting none and descending which isn't possible so it breaks and defaults to none ascending.
This is the clue that the setting is imbedded in the gallery settings when you unveil and doesn't show up till you try to use Gallery Settings. The illogical setting causes the default to none ascending because none descending isn't possible. (And I wish it was.)
I've gone through the steps you've outlined here and it appears that nothing changes on migration to NSM, the ascending sort order is preserved and switching to descending after migration changes the order on Legacy and NSM.
Month after month of the misery of having to go to the bottom of huge galleries to move a newly uploaded picture when the gallery is set to Sort Manually.
Why is the choice of placing newly uploaded pictures on top of the gallery, instead of the bottom, when the gallery is set to Sort Manually such a problem?
It's like the designers don't even use the program!
Dennis linked me to this thread from another topic and I wanted to make sure the discussion on this happened here ...
I clearly understand the frustration of having this thread open for 2 years now with no resolution, and almost a year without any update. As previously mentioned, a bug report was filed about the re-sorting issue when you save gallery settings with no changes. I'm going to see if we can get someone to work on this, as it should definitely be fixed. It should not re-sort just because you opened gallery settings. Your manual sort order should remain, as you would expect it to. I'll try to keep you updated as I work with engineering on this.
As to the issue of being able to upload to the beginning of a gallery vs. the end. I concur that this is not an issue for small galleries, but is certainly a valid concern on large galleries in which having to scroll, wait, scroll, wait, is not ideal. The option for Manually sorting but still having an order (Ascending or Descending) is extremely confusing to users and one reason why this was removed in New SmugMug. Because of that, if we were to implement uploading to the top of the gallery, we would not do it in the same fashion that we did it with Old SmugMug. However, this is a valid idea and I've gone ahead and created this feature request on our Feedback Forums: http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723/suggestions/9583080. Feel free to head on over there to vote for it!
With that said, the placement of new uploads is a very personal decision. While we have thousands of feature requests that we'd love to work on, we've been focusing our development on improving SmugMug for the majority of our customers. The number of users requesting this feature is very small and at this time we won't be able to work on implementing it. Since it is a very valid request I'm going to continue to leave it open on both here and on the Feedback Forums but I did want to be upfront on where we stand with implementing this. If we see the interest in this request rise, we'll be sure to bump it up on our radar.
... As previously mentioned, a bug report was filed about the re-sorting issue when you save gallery settings with no changes. I'm going to see if we can get someone to work on this, as it should definitely be fixed. It should not re-sort just because you opened gallery settings. Your manual sort order should remain, as you would expect it to...
Please understand this problem with your sort being lost only happens once, and only happens to a gallery that was set for manual sort and descending in Old SM and then migrating. It happens because there is no option in New SM to accommodate the old settings, and the obvious cure is to implement it in New SM.
I just voted for this...I have this frustration as well; galleries that are sorted by position and I have to drag new entries to the top, laboriously. Thanks, Dennis, for your persistence, though it sounds like we're likely stuck.
Please understand this problem with your sort being lost only happens once, and only happens to a gallery that was set for manual sort and descending in Old SM and then migrating
Yep! it should recognize that the gallery has been manually sorted to a specific order, and honor that order. Sort Order in New SM is set to "Position", and since you're not in the Organizer, the position shouldn't change. The positions should match what they were in Old SM.
It happens because there is no option in New SM to accommodate the old settings, and the obvious cure is to implement it in New SM.
There are 2 separate issues here: one is that there's a bug causing sort-order to change when no change to the sort order was set; the other is that there's a feature request to be able to choose where new uploads are placed in the gallery. These are separate topics and should not be linked. The way that Old SM did this is not intuitive nor ideal and is extremely confusing to users. If we were to implement this feature request, we would not do it in the way that Old SM did it; the most obvious implementation would be an option for "New Upload Placement: Beginning/End". We'll fix the bug and I'll make sure to update this thread when it's complete.
I sure hope this fix is coming in the next few days if people really have to migrate pronto. I'm pretty sure this whole thing would affect gazillions of my galleries & I'm going to have enough mountains of work on my plate w/o having to worry about this as well. It's yet another thing that's kept me at bay.
Yep! it should recognize that the gallery has been manually sorted to a specific order, and honor that order. Sort Order in New SM is set to "Position", and since you're not in the Organizer, the position shouldn't change. The positions should match what they were in Old SM.
There are 2 separate issues here: one is that there's a bug causing sort-order to change when no change to the sort order was set; the other is that there's a feature request to be able to choose where new uploads are placed in the gallery. These are separate topics and should not be linked. The way that Old SM did this is not intuitive nor ideal and is extremely confusing to users. If we were to implement this feature request, we would not do it in the way that Old SM did it; the most obvious implementation would be an option for "New Upload Placement: Beginning/End". We'll fix the bug and I'll make sure to update this thread when it's complete.
I have a New SM gallery that I have never changed the gallery settings in.
Uploaded files are put at the top because it still has the Manual and Descending settings from Old SM.
It's hard to believe fixing this would be so hard. Just put it back the way it was!
I sure hope this fix is coming in the next few days if people really have to migrate pronto.
I've got an engineer actively working on it, however, since Sort Position is extremely important (as you've shown here), we want to make sure we get it right and don't introduce any other bugs. My hope is to have it fixed before the end of next week, hopefully sooner.
I completely understand why it would be useful to have uploads be placed at the top of the gallery, however, the way it was done in Legacy is a horrible experience. Who would think that setting "Sort Direction" to "Descending" would make uploads appear at the top. It should be something like an "Upload Location" "Top or Bottom" option. Because it's a separate option, it becomes much more complicated. We want New SmugMug to be easy to understand so we're not going to be introducing things that are confusing, just because they're easy.
I'll let you know when we have more on the bug fix.
I've got an engineer actively working on it, however, since Sort Position is extremely important (as you've shown here), we want to make sure we get it right and don't introduce any other bugs. My hope is to have it fixed before the end of next week, hopefully sooner.
...
I'll let you know when we have more on the bug fix.
Aaron,
The scrambling bug is one of the reasons I've waited so long, though laziness is probably the main reason. Still, I'm a little unclear on the current status. If I understood the problem, it was something that happened at migration time and kicked in when gallery settings were touched. Now it looks as if all accounts have been migrated by SM, that is, there is no longer an explicit migration step that the user takes. Right? So does that mean that, pending a fix, the old autosort=none/sort order=descending galleries will get screwed up whenever the new gallery settings are touched in the preview? I've started playing in the sandpile (doesn't quite rise to sandbox, IMO ) and haven't seen a problem yet, but then I'm only at the site style and hierarchy stage and haven't touched gallery settings yet.
The scrambling bug is one of the reasons I've waited so long, though laziness is probably the main reason. Still, I'm a little unclear on the current status. If I understood the problem, it was something that happened at migration time and kicked in when gallery settings were touched. Now it looks as if all accounts have been migrated by SM, that is, there is no longer an explicit migration step that the user takes. Right? So does that mean that, pending a fix, the old autosort=none/sort order=descending galleries will get screwed up whenever the new gallery settings are touched in the preview? I've started playing in the sandpile (doesn't quite rise to sandbox, IMO ) and haven't seen a problem yet, but then I'm only at the site style and hierarchy stage and haven't touched gallery settings yet.
You are correct, everyone has been moved to the Sandbox so they can get comfortable with the New SmugMug, however this re-arrangement bug only happens when you open the Gallery Settings while in "New SmugMug Preview" (the sandbox). Basically what happens is New SmugMug flips the sort direction to Ascending when you click save, even though it doesn't show it as an option at all (since manual order doesn't have a direction, the UI hides the option).
If you're in need of going into gallery settings I would recommending clicking "back to old smugmug" first, then going into the settings there.
I've got an engineer actively working on it, however, since Sort Position is extremely important (as you've shown here), we want to make sure we get it right and don't introduce any other bugs. My hope is to have it fixed before the end of next week, hopefully sooner.
Comments
This is with QA to investigate. I will update the title when they give me more detailed information.
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
Still waiting!
Cheers,
Dennis, this is a lower priority....no one seems to be affected but you. We can't take away all of our resources from other things to fix an issue that affects literally, a handful of users. I apologize.
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I find this upsetting. I have not migrated yet to the new SmugMug because of this problem. If you have no intention of fixing it ever, it would help me with my future planning if you would just say so.
I think it's safe to say he said so. Eventually they will get rid of legacy and migrate everybody to new smug. If that happens before this gets fixed, the point is moot.
I'd highly recommend starting to work on your new smug site. Otherwise you'll be under a time crunch when they announce legacy is going away.
You're going to spend many hours building your new smug site. This is just one more thing you'll need to do to get the new site up and running. Waiting for smugmug to make changes is just delaying the inevitable. I spent somewhere around 9 months from migrating to unveiling my new site. You're not going to want to start the process when they announce you have 1 week... or just migrating you without warning, AKA smugmug style.
Dave
Richard, I would not rely on this issue being fixed as a barometer as to weather you should unveil or not.
I would suggest finding a different way to sort your galleries.
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
If I have understood this problem correctly, the issue is that the existing sort order of a number of my galleries is going to get scrambled when I migrate, namely those galleries with the current settings Auto Sort: None, Sort Direction: Ascending. So I have not even migrated yet. I realize that I can manually re-sort before unveiling, but I had been hoping to avoid that unnecessary work.
Understood Richard. You are right. You will have plenty of notice before you would need to migrate off of Legacy.
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
- Use a vulnerable legacy gallery (autosort: none, sort order: descending) that has been populated.
- Change its sort order to ascending, but don't add anything new to the gallery or change the photo arrangement.
- Migrate the gallery and make sure that it is configured for manual sort.
- Check to see that the migrated gallery does not rearrange itself as it did in your testing.
- Go back to the legacy gallery and change the sort order back to descending, and make sure that nothing has changed there or in the new gallery either.
It would be great if you could give this a try in your testing environment and let us know whether it works. We would still have to deal with the issue of where new additions go in the new version, but to me that's a minor annoyance rather than a royal PITA.Thanks.
Getting started on DGrin? Go here first!
Contact a Support Hero: http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/emails/new
Michael has never read and grasped the problem judging by his description of it in the bug list.
I've been begging for the choice of top of gallery for newly uploaded pictures in manual sort ever since you took it away with the new smugmug!
It can't be that hard to implement and it is a pain to have to keep dragging every newly uploaded picture from the bottom to the top of the gallery.
Cheers,
Any update?
Thx.
I have asked Canton for any additional information he has found. I will let you know soon.
Facebook
Google+
Twitter
Photo Blog
I've been busy and, to be honest, completely forgot about this thread. I'm sorry.
I will look into this, this week.
Getting started on DGrin? Go here first!
Contact a Support Hero: http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/emails/new
I've gone through the steps you've outlined here and it appears that nothing changes on migration to NSM, the ascending sort order is preserved and switching to descending after migration changes the order on Legacy and NSM.
Getting started on DGrin? Go here first!
Contact a Support Hero: http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/emails/new
Why is the choice of placing newly uploaded pictures on top of the gallery, instead of the bottom, when the gallery is set to Sort Manually such a problem?
It's like the designers don't even use the program!
I clearly understand the frustration of having this thread open for 2 years now with no resolution, and almost a year without any update. As previously mentioned, a bug report was filed about the re-sorting issue when you save gallery settings with no changes. I'm going to see if we can get someone to work on this, as it should definitely be fixed. It should not re-sort just because you opened gallery settings. Your manual sort order should remain, as you would expect it to. I'll try to keep you updated as I work with engineering on this.
As to the issue of being able to upload to the beginning of a gallery vs. the end. I concur that this is not an issue for small galleries, but is certainly a valid concern on large galleries in which having to scroll, wait, scroll, wait, is not ideal. The option for Manually sorting but still having an order (Ascending or Descending) is extremely confusing to users and one reason why this was removed in New SmugMug. Because of that, if we were to implement uploading to the top of the gallery, we would not do it in the same fashion that we did it with Old SmugMug. However, this is a valid idea and I've gone ahead and created this feature request on our Feedback Forums: http://feedback.smugmug.com/forums/17723/suggestions/9583080. Feel free to head on over there to vote for it!
With that said, the placement of new uploads is a very personal decision. While we have thousands of feature requests that we'd love to work on, we've been focusing our development on improving SmugMug for the majority of our customers. The number of users requesting this feature is very small and at this time we won't be able to work on implementing it. Since it is a very valid request I'm going to continue to leave it open on both here and on the Feedback Forums but I did want to be upfront on where we stand with implementing this. If we see the interest in this request rise, we'll be sure to bump it up on our radar.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Please understand this problem with your sort being lost only happens once, and only happens to a gallery that was set for manual sort and descending in Old SM and then migrating. It happens because there is no option in New SM to accommodate the old settings, and the obvious cure is to implement it in New SM.
Cheers,
There are 2 separate issues here: one is that there's a bug causing sort-order to change when no change to the sort order was set; the other is that there's a feature request to be able to choose where new uploads are placed in the gallery. These are separate topics and should not be linked. The way that Old SM did this is not intuitive nor ideal and is extremely confusing to users. If we were to implement this feature request, we would not do it in the way that Old SM did it; the most obvious implementation would be an option for "New Upload Placement: Beginning/End". We'll fix the bug and I'll make sure to update this thread when it's complete.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
DayBreak, my Folk Music Group (some free mp3s!) http://daybreakfolk.com
Uploaded files are put at the top because it still has the Manual and Descending settings from Old SM.
It's hard to believe fixing this would be so hard. Just put it back the way it was!
Cheers,
I've got an engineer actively working on it, however, since Sort Position is extremely important (as you've shown here), we want to make sure we get it right and don't introduce any other bugs. My hope is to have it fixed before the end of next week, hopefully sooner.
I completely understand why it would be useful to have uploads be placed at the top of the gallery, however, the way it was done in Legacy is a horrible experience. Who would think that setting "Sort Direction" to "Descending" would make uploads appear at the top. It should be something like an "Upload Location" "Top or Bottom" option. Because it's a separate option, it becomes much more complicated. We want New SmugMug to be easy to understand so we're not going to be introducing things that are confusing, just because they're easy.
I'll let you know when we have more on the bug fix.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
The scrambling bug is one of the reasons I've waited so long, though laziness is probably the main reason. Still, I'm a little unclear on the current status. If I understood the problem, it was something that happened at migration time and kicked in when gallery settings were touched. Now it looks as if all accounts have been migrated by SM, that is, there is no longer an explicit migration step that the user takes. Right? So does that mean that, pending a fix, the old autosort=none/sort order=descending galleries will get screwed up whenever the new gallery settings are touched in the preview? I've started playing in the sandpile (doesn't quite rise to sandbox, IMO
You are correct, everyone has been moved to the Sandbox so they can get comfortable with the New SmugMug, however this re-arrangement bug only happens when you open the Gallery Settings while in "New SmugMug Preview" (the sandbox). Basically what happens is New SmugMug flips the sort direction to Ascending when you click save, even though it doesn't show it as an option at all (since manual order doesn't have a direction, the UI hides the option).
If you're in need of going into gallery settings I would recommending clicking "back to old smugmug" first, then going into the settings there.
Former SmugMug Product Team
aaron AT aaronmphotography DOT com
Website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com
My SmugMug CSS Customizations website: http://www.aaronmphotography.com/Customizations
Any update?
Still working on it. We'll update the thread as soon as the fix is live.