I think digital downloads are a great idea! more important than the info request option.
And as far as Smugmug goes, I hired them to host my photos, I could have chosen from others but I chose Smugmug because of there customer service, and ability to deal with customers at times for me. If I had the time and money I would be running my own servers and website, and have printers in house, but I don't, I use smugmug, and pay smugmug to do so. They IMO are a tool, just like my camera is a tool.
In the grand scheam of things, I can't belive that people are worried about getting more info about the customer! If someone used a photo in an inapropriat manor, I would hope that smugmug would turn the customers info over to the appropriat parties! they do afterall have that info somewhere.
Again my wish list!!!! and I think I speak for most pros when I write this.
1. Ability to make up photo pkgs!
2. Baseball / playing cards with photos on them, as well as magazine covers.
3. Digital downloads / CD with photos on them.
4. Coupons 10% off of order of $50 or more or something like that!
5. Another catagorie under sub-catagorie!! " for example, I would love to break down my lacrosse as such Lacrosse - Boys Lacrosse - Games at CHS - then Games.
In fact, it almost sounds like SmugMug is a stock image company using the Pro accounts as a 'pool' of images for people to peruse and purchase. Here's where I must confess I "missed it". I'd never really thought about it that way.
Just to be clear, we have no such offering or business model.
Just to be clear, we have no such offering or business model.
I wasn't insinuating that SmugMug is doing this in any formal manner and didn't mean it in a negative way, so apologies upfront if that's how is was taken.
What I meant was that people can go through multiple photographers galleries adding images to an 'open' shopping cart as they go and purchasing all the images at one time. Perhaps my wording was incorrect or confusing. That's just the way the current system is setup, and I never had thought about it that way. I assumed that everytime you went to a different pros page you would start with a fresh shopping cart.
There are many aspects to SmugMug that actually encourage this-most popular photos, photo searches etc. that certainly seemed to be designed to get pros the most exposure possible. I guess I never thought about people 'out-there' in cyber space buying my pics on face value.
This has given me something to think about...
Take care,
Mongrel
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
e-mail is fine with me
I find the e-mail contact info alone just fine. I really, really, really think smugmug needs to make the print ordering easier-- not more options or check boxes for customers.
I suspect I'm not the only one that gets the ol' e-mail or phone call from customers saying, "I'm trying to order prints but it won't let me!"
"Does it say, 'your shopping cart is empty'?" is always my first question. And the answer (so far) is "YES!".
Anyway, my point is that MANY of my customers can't even get to the print order page without my help (they get "your shopping cart is empty" when really it's a cookie issue-- and yes I have this prominently displayed-- in red-- above galleries with print ordering). Soooooo... if my customers can't even get to the print order site in the first place, well, you can see why an option to provide their mailing address is not much help (so I really am trying to stick to the original question).
This is a long way of saying, please change the "your shopping cart is empty" message to one that makes sense to the customer so they can actually order prints. Once that happens, I'm fine with just getting their e-mail addresses.
BTW: I had TWO "help I can't order prints" in the last week alone. Both of them were related to the good ol' (and useless) "your shopping cart is empty" message and both problems were actually due to cookies not being enabled.
BTW: I had TWO "help I can't order prints" in the last week alone. Both of them were related to the good ol' (and useless) "your shopping cart is empty" message and both problems were actually due to cookies not being enabled.
If it is a common problem that cookies aren't enabled when customers try to buy prints, isn't this something that Smugmug can detect and tell the user this directly right in the user interface? I've seen other web-sites that do this as I, myself, have cookies disabled for most sites. This would then prevent your support call and Smugmug's support call while communicating what must be done in order to make the cart work?
Dogwood, maybe you should put this feature request along with the data on the customer problems you are seeing over in either the feature request thread or the bug thread.
I dont sell nearly as many photos as some of the other pros on here, but personally I have never seen any need for any more information than I already get. Thats why I signed up with smugmug, so I dont have to worry about it. I know this isnt the feature request thread but this goes along with the customers information/purchase area. I would just like a notification when a purchase happens.
If it is a common problem that cookies aren't enabled when customers try to buy prints, isn't this something that Smugmug can detect and tell the user this directly right in the user interface? I've seen other web-sites that do this as I, myself, have cookies disabled for most sites. This would then prevent your support call and Smugmug's support call while communicating what must be done in order to make the cart work?
Dogwood, maybe you should put this feature request along with the data on the customer problems you are seeing over in either the feature request thread or the bug thread.
We can, and JT's already got this issue on his plate. Thanks!
BTW: I had TWO "help I can't order prints" in the last week alone. Both of them were related to the good ol' (and useless) "your shopping cart is empty" message and both problems were actually due to cookies not being enabled.
We can tell if they have cookies on or off, and javascript, too:
Customer info thoughts
I would take out the credit card portion of both the options. Put it in the general sentence ("under no circumstances is your credit card information shared"). In the options selections, it might imply that under certain selections CC info might be shared.
BTW...personally, I prefer option #2.
Finally, given the messaging capability of SM, is it possible to have these kinds of discussions highlighted as a message to Pro's. Frankly, I'm more photographer than forum user, and although I check my SM site daily (for sales info), I often forget to check DG for weeks...Just a thought...
We can tell if they have cookies on or off, and javascript, too:
Yeah, obviously I've brought this issue up before. But it's good to see the cookie info above the "shopping cart is empty" info-- that's new right? I would suggest the cookie info be the only thing folk see... but there's probably a reason it's not. And what's weird is the majority of folks without cookies enabled are using Safari in my experience.
Anyway-- don't want to hijack this thread (or Andy's vacation) anymore than I already have. Thanks for the responses.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited July 25, 2006
How about this wording?
SmugMug and (Pro's name) work as trusted partners to make sure your order is perfect. Both SmugMug and (Pro's name) will have your name and email to provide better service than either could alone.
Well, this is different, not sure if it's better or not, but I think it sounds better to me...
SmugMug and (Pro's name) work as trusted partners to make sure that you are completely satisfied with your order. Both SmugMug and (Pro's name) will have your name and email so that, together, we can provide you with the best in service.
"Smugmug and (Pro’s Name) work as trusted partners to ensure your order is perfect. Together, we will retain your name and email address in order to provide you with the quality service you expect and deserve."
...erm....
"I (or simply insert 'pros' name here) have\has chosen SmugMug to provide you with the highest quality products, service and customer support available. In order to facilitate this, we share the responsibility of keeping your personal information strictly confidential and assure you that you will never be 'spammed' or otherwise abused by providing it".
(after all...it is "all about me" isn't it?)
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
I also see the problem from both sides as of last night. I was forced to register at another site last week to view photos of a friends wedding. Now I am getting emails offering to sell me the wedding photos on DVD for $99. I am pretty sure that if I do not take the offer that in a week I will get another one offering prints. These are automated messages coming from the service not the photog as best I can tell.
Good marketing practice or not, it is a little annoying.
"I (or simply insert 'pros' name here) have\has chosen SmugMug to provide you with the highest quality products, service and customer support available. In order to facilitate this, we share the responsibility of keeping your personal information strictly confidential and assure you that you will never be 'spammed' or otherwise abused by providing it".
I think the part about assuring you won't be spammed is key and definitely needs a mention.
BaldyRegistered Users, Super ModeratorsPosts: 2,853moderator
edited July 26, 2006
One thing, to be clear:
Our law firm says that if you are to use an email address for marketing purposes (spam) you must provide the customer an opt-out.
So we have to modify our terms & conditions for pro accounts to say that the email address we share with pros can't be used for spam, else we'd have to provide the opt-out.
The law firm sent us a new terms and conditions doc, which I'm going over this afternoon and will share when we get it done.
Our law firm says that if you are to use an email address for marketing purposes (spam) you must provide the customer an opt-out.
So we have to modify our terms & conditions for pro accounts to say that the email address we share with pros can't be used for spam, else we'd have to provide the opt-out.
The law firm sent us a new terms and conditions doc, which I'm going over this afternoon and will share when we get it done.
Thanks,
Baldy
Doesn't the pro who's doing the marketing to your email accept the responsibility for offering the opt-out capability from their marketing at some point? Or can your T&C's be written to reflect that?
We just wanted an open discussion on our thought processes.
Sorry, Andy, I certainly appreciate the open dialog on this particular topic (or any topic), but when there's a thread started over 18 months ago with 10k views that is still on the front page (and only below the two main stickies in view count) - it must be important, yet nothing has happened...
I've basically resigned myself to the fact that smugmug isn't going to be a pro-level application anytime soon, if ever. So I use other sites for other purposes (Pictage, Exposure Manager) - but it kills me because in terms of customization and aesthetics nobody beats the mug.
I thought you might. But don't forget (and again, I know it's hard for you Andy since you're just the messenger) you've been posting some version of "stay tuned" for 18 months...
So in order to not completely threadjack this topic, let me say this:
jfriend is right on the money.
This dichotomy (between downplaying smugmug's involvement or not) is probably exactly why you guys brought this discussion out to us in the first place. So don't fight it - embrace it. Use Model #1 for everyone. Allow pros to choose Model #2 if they want it - isn't that part of why you have domain name options for pro accounts? And that's why I spent the time customizing my site the way I did - I can't get that level of control and branding anywhere else, except building it myself. And mind you, I'm a web developer by day, I could do it if I wanted to - but it just doesn't make sense for me. So give me Model #2 and the associated information.
I would very much like the address of my clients. I use the physical address to send thank you notes and holiday cards, and sometimes for direct marketing. I also like to send "surprise" photos, but can't do that easily with my Pro Account.
I don't understand the ethics question. If I were self-fulfilling the orders, I would have the clients' addresses. Other online services provide the physical issue.
Is the question one of Smug Mug branding versus our individual studio branding of the delivered product?
I would very much like the address of my clients. I use the physical address to send thank you notes and holiday cards, and sometimes for direct marketing. I also like to send "surprise" photos, but can't do that easily with my Pro Account.
I don't understand the ethics question. If I were self-fulfilling the orders, I would have the clients' addresses. Other online services provide the physical issue.
Is the question one of Smug Mug branding versus our individual studio branding of the delivered product?
Take care,
Lisa
Hi Lisa, read the posts by Baldy in this thread, our feelings are well laid out. I hope this helps!
Perhaps I can't find the posting anywhere, but what about adding a "contact me" section on each photog's page where the user can choose to enter name, address, phone, and/or email, etc. as well as a question. Posting this will, instead of generating a guest book comment, send an email to the photog's email address. You could possibly implement this on the checkout screen as well.
I personally would like to have the "contact me" page on my site so that I can remove my email address. This helps reduce the risk of computer bots scavenging for emails and then loading up the spam to my email account.
Perhaps I can't find the posting anywhere, but what about adding a "contact me" section on each photog's page where the user can choose to enter name, address, phone, and/or email, etc. as well as a question. Posting this will, instead of generating a guest book comment, send an email to the photog's email address. You could possibly implement this on the checkout screen as well.
I personally would like to have the "contact me" page on my site so that I can remove my email address. This helps reduce the risk of computer bots scavenging for emails and then loading up the spam to my email account.
Just an idea....
David
You can put this capability in your site for free by using tools like The Form Assembly.
Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance.
Comments
And as far as Smugmug goes, I hired them to host my photos, I could have chosen from others but I chose Smugmug because of there customer service, and ability to deal with customers at times for me. If I had the time and money I would be running my own servers and website, and have printers in house, but I don't, I use smugmug, and pay smugmug to do so. They IMO are a tool, just like my camera is a tool.
In the grand scheam of things, I can't belive that people are worried about getting more info about the customer! If someone used a photo in an inapropriat manor, I would hope that smugmug would turn the customers info over to the appropriat parties! they do afterall have that info somewhere.
Again my wish list!!!! and I think I speak for most pros when I write this.
1. Ability to make up photo pkgs!
2. Baseball / playing cards with photos on them, as well as magazine covers.
3. Digital downloads / CD with photos on them.
4. Coupons 10% off of order of $50 or more or something like that!
5. Another catagorie under sub-catagorie!! " for example, I would love to break down my lacrosse as such Lacrosse - Boys Lacrosse - Games at CHS - then Games.
Thanks
Paul.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I wasn't insinuating that SmugMug is doing this in any formal manner and didn't mean it in a negative way, so apologies upfront if that's how is was taken.
What I meant was that people can go through multiple photographers galleries adding images to an 'open' shopping cart as they go and purchasing all the images at one time. Perhaps my wording was incorrect or confusing. That's just the way the current system is setup, and I never had thought about it that way. I assumed that everytime you went to a different pros page you would start with a fresh shopping cart.
There are many aspects to SmugMug that actually encourage this-most popular photos, photo searches etc. that certainly seemed to be designed to get pros the most exposure possible. I guess I never thought about people 'out-there' in cyber space buying my pics on face value.
This has given me something to think about...
Take care,
Mongrel
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I find the e-mail contact info alone just fine. I really, really, really think smugmug needs to make the print ordering easier-- not more options or check boxes for customers.
I suspect I'm not the only one that gets the ol' e-mail or phone call from customers saying, "I'm trying to order prints but it won't let me!"
"Does it say, 'your shopping cart is empty'?" is always my first question. And the answer (so far) is "YES!".
Anyway, my point is that MANY of my customers can't even get to the print order page without my help (they get "your shopping cart is empty" when really it's a cookie issue-- and yes I have this prominently displayed-- in red-- above galleries with print ordering). Soooooo... if my customers can't even get to the print order site in the first place, well, you can see why an option to provide their mailing address is not much help (so I really am trying to stick to the original question).
This is a long way of saying, please change the "your shopping cart is empty" message to one that makes sense to the customer so they can actually order prints. Once that happens, I'm fine with just getting their e-mail addresses.
BTW: I had TWO "help I can't order prints" in the last week alone. Both of them were related to the good ol' (and useless) "your shopping cart is empty" message and both problems were actually due to cookies not being enabled.
Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
website blog instagram facebook g+
If it is a common problem that cookies aren't enabled when customers try to buy prints, isn't this something that Smugmug can detect and tell the user this directly right in the user interface? I've seen other web-sites that do this as I, myself, have cookies disabled for most sites. This would then prevent your support call and Smugmug's support call while communicating what must be done in order to make the cart work?
Dogwood, maybe you should put this feature request along with the data on the customer problems you are seeing over in either the feature request thread or the bug thread.
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www.joeywashburn.com
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I would take out the credit card portion of both the options. Put it in the general sentence ("under no circumstances is your credit card information shared"). In the options selections, it might imply that under certain selections CC info might be shared.
BTW...personally, I prefer option #2.
Finally, given the messaging capability of SM, is it possible to have these kinds of discussions highlighted as a message to Pro's. Frankly, I'm more photographer than forum user, and although I check my SM site daily (for sales info), I often forget to check DG for weeks...Just a thought...
Derek
Yeah, obviously I've brought this issue up before. But it's good to see the cookie info above the "shopping cart is empty" info-- that's new right? I would suggest the cookie info be the only thing folk see... but there's probably a reason it's not. And what's weird is the majority of folks without cookies enabled are using Safari in my experience.
Anyway-- don't want to hijack this thread (or Andy's vacation) anymore than I already have. Thanks for the responses.
Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
website blog instagram facebook g+
SmugMug and (Pro's name) work as trusted partners to make sure your order is perfect. Both SmugMug and (Pro's name) will have your name and email to provide better service than either could alone.
SmugMug and (Pro's name) work as trusted partners to make sure that you are completely satisfied with your order. Both SmugMug and (Pro's name) will have your name and email so that, together, we can provide you with the best in service.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
"Smugmug and (Pro’s Name) work as trusted partners to ensure your order is perfect. Together, we will retain your name and email address in order to provide you with the quality service you expect and deserve."
"I (or simply insert 'pros' name here) have\has chosen SmugMug to provide you with the highest quality products, service and customer support available. In order to facilitate this, we share the responsibility of keeping your personal information strictly confidential and assure you that you will never be 'spammed' or otherwise abused by providing it".
(after all...it is "all about me" isn't it?)
I also see the problem from both sides as of last night. I was forced to register at another site last week to view photos of a friends wedding. Now I am getting emails offering to sell me the wedding photos on DVD for $99. I am pretty sure that if I do not take the offer that in a week I will get another one offering prints. These are automated messages coming from the service not the photog as best I can tell.
Good marketing practice or not, it is a little annoying.
http://help.smugmug.com
I think the part about assuring you won't be spammed is key and definitely needs a mention.
Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
website blog instagram facebook g+
Our law firm says that if you are to use an email address for marketing purposes (spam) you must provide the customer an opt-out.
So we have to modify our terms & conditions for pro accounts to say that the email address we share with pros can't be used for spam, else we'd have to provide the opt-out.
The law firm sent us a new terms and conditions doc, which I'm going over this afternoon and will share when we get it done.
Thanks,
Baldy
Doesn't the pro who's doing the marketing to your email accept the responsibility for offering the opt-out capability from their marketing at some point? Or can your T&C's be written to reflect that?
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I can't believe this has priority over:
Getting an email that an order has been placed...or
In the cart, having ALL available print sizes show in one drop-down...or
Digital downloads....
@Docwalker, that sounds like Pictage.
http://images.tonyschreiber.com
(technocraft.smugmug.com)
We just wanted an open discussion on our thought processes.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Sorry, Andy, I certainly appreciate the open dialog on this particular topic (or any topic), but when there's a thread started over 18 months ago with 10k views that is still on the front page (and only below the two main stickies in view count) - it must be important, yet nothing has happened...
I've basically resigned myself to the fact that smugmug isn't going to be a pro-level application anytime soon, if ever. So I use other sites for other purposes (Pictage, Exposure Manager) - but it kills me because in terms of customization and aesthetics nobody beats the mug.
http://images.tonyschreiber.com
(technocraft.smugmug.com)
I love this!
Stay tuned, we're listening we promise.
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
I thought you might. But don't forget (and again, I know it's hard for you Andy since you're just the messenger) you've been posting some version of "stay tuned" for 18 months...
So in order to not completely threadjack this topic, let me say this:
jfriend is right on the money.
This dichotomy (between downplaying smugmug's involvement or not) is probably exactly why you guys brought this discussion out to us in the first place. So don't fight it - embrace it. Use Model #1 for everyone. Allow pros to choose Model #2 if they want it - isn't that part of why you have domain name options for pro accounts? And that's why I spent the time customizing my site the way I did - I can't get that level of control and branding anywhere else, except building it myself. And mind you, I'm a web developer by day, I could do it if I wanted to - but it just doesn't make sense for me. So give me Model #2 and the associated information.
http://images.tonyschreiber.com
(technocraft.smugmug.com)
Hi Andy,
Just came across this thread.
I would very much like the address of my clients. I use the physical address to send thank you notes and holiday cards, and sometimes for direct marketing. I also like to send "surprise" photos, but can't do that easily with my Pro Account.
I don't understand the ethics question. If I were self-fulfilling the orders, I would have the clients' addresses. Other online services provide the physical issue.
Is the question one of Smug Mug branding versus our individual studio branding of the delivered product?
Take care,
Lisa
bigtrainphotos.com (Bethesda Big Train Baseball Photos)
Kammerman Portraits (Portraits, Events, Children with Special Needs, Daycare)
Photography Referral System
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I personally would like to have the "contact me" page on my site so that I can remove my email address. This helps reduce the risk of computer bots scavenging for emails and then loading up the spam to my email account.
Just an idea....
David
GreyLeaf PhotoGraphy
You can put this capability in your site for free by using tools like The Form Assembly.
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
Thanks, Mike, for the link.
I found the encoding link on the faq (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=222923#post222923). I think this will serve my needs.
David
GreyLeaf PhotoGraphy
That's the important part
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/