1. Add the following text to the shopping cart at checkout:
"SmugMug provides your name and email to the photographer (Andy Williams) whose photos you're buying. Our terms with photographers forbid them from selling your contact info or using it for spam (link to definition of spam)."
The customer would then see two check boxes with the left one on by default.
(0) Just give them name and email ( ) Phone and address is okay (but not my credit card!)
Pros: You always get some contact information, even if it's just email address.
Cons: You may lose some sales from people who don't want to share their contact information.
2. Add this text to the shopping cart at checkout:
"Is it okay if we provide the photographer whose photos you're buying (Andy Williams) with your contact info? They are frequently helpful if there's a problem with the order."
(0) Yes, but not my credit card! ( ) Yes, but only my email. ( ) No.
Pros: You won't lose sales since customers feel they have control over their privacy.
Cons: You may get sales without any contact information.
Feel free to suggest wording changes or other options.
Thanks!
Baldy
No way on number two in its current version because we may get less info than we get now. Have you had any complaints from customers so far? If not, and I suspect not, then eliminating info to pros would piss us off. Being someone who only has images for sale in galleries with passwords that the customers get at events, from me, etc, all my customers came to my site for my site, not anyway through smugmug. I realize that not all Pros are this way but my impression from dgrin is most are and most have more than a majority of their sales purchased by customers that had some type of direct contact with them, similar to my situation.
So I like number 1 with one change. Put the line about the terms with the photographer after/below the options box.
"A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
I stated earlier that I haven't needed the customer's address for anything yet but I've been thinking about this.
It's been said in here somewhere, I'm sure, that my customers are just that, mine. Not SmugMugs. SmugMug is paid by me to do a job. My customer could careless who processes the photo's, they just pick the one's they like. Now if Smug doesn't do a good job, I lose a customer. And if that kept up, I would no longer choose to pay Smug to process my pictures. So I would think that the customers info should go to me, and to Smug. I see no need to tell the customer that the info is going here or there. I doubt any of them are too concerned about that. I think the disclaimer or warning would actually make some customers think a little harder, and maybe not order. Too many clicks, too much reading, too big a hassle.
Leave the warning off, provide the information, or as I said before let me turn the option off, because I don't want MY customers reading all that crap.
customer info to Pros
I think the current information (name and email) is enough.
If I needed more information from my customers I get it when I take the pictures. There are some who dont like to use computers etc so I will get an address then and there so i can mail them their proofs.
I am a newbie in here and still customizing my site. So take this as a consumer/pro First there is no way that I want anyones CC info. Not even the last for numbers way too much liability involved there. Getting someone's address would make it appear that I am handing the printing process (which I do not want to deal with, and why I chose SM) A person's valid e-mail and name would suffice for my needs.
As far as the ordering process from a customer's perspective I think a great option would be for people to be able to create their own profile and login into SM. This would allow them to taylor their experience on the site with what what they are looking for. They can tell SM that they are usually looking for digital downloads, or pictures of horses, or macros of bugs, or what ever keywords they are usually searching for. When they log in they are presented with images what meet their search criteria, with their prefered photogs on the top and perhaps with a link to other photogs that may have what they are looking for. If they hit like say http://www.ballentphoto.com (shameless plug ) then images that match what they are interested in will show up in the order of newest uploads.
For other folks that do not want to create profiles it can be business as usual.
As far as the ordering process from a customer's perspective I think a great option would be for people to be able to create their own profile and login into SM. This would allow them to taylor their experience on the site with what what they are looking for. They can tell SM that they are usually looking for digital downloads, or pictures of horses, or macros of bugs, or what ever keywords they are usually searching for. When they log in they are presented with images what meet their search criteria, with their prefered photogs on the top and perhaps with a link to other photogs that may have what they are looking for. If they hit like say http://www.ballentphoto.com (shameless plug ) then images that match what they are interested in will show up in the order of newest uploads.
For other folks that do not want to create profiles it can be business as usual.
Just my .02
You need to go to smugmug.com and enter any text in the search menu. You get a ton of option for anything you type in. The only thing that smugmug needs to add to have close to what you request is to have a radio button that has 1. all images 2. images available via prints 3. images available via digital download
"A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
I stated earlier that I haven't needed the customer's address for anything yet but I've been thinking about this.
It's been said in here somewhere, I'm sure, that my customers are just that, mine. Not SmugMugs. SmugMug is paid by me to do a job. My customer could careless who processes the photo's, they just pick the one's they like. Now if Smug doesn't do a good job, I lose a customer. And if that kept up, I would no longer choose to pay Smug to process my pictures. So I would think that the customers info should go to me, and to Smug. I see no need to tell the customer that the info is going here or there. I doubt any of them are too concerned about that. I think the disclaimer or warning would actually make some customers think a little harder, and maybe not order. Too many clicks, too much reading, too big a hassle.
Leave the warning off, provide the information, or as I said before let me turn the option off, because I don't want MY customers reading all that crap.
Another note is that I really need to know who is purchasing my photos. If I sell a copy of a photo and then find that it has been used inappropriately I need to know who did it. The person may not answer an email. But, if I send them a certified letter it might get more attention.
I am new with my pro site with most of my sales coming from people at the event in which i shot... but my first sale however was from a person whom i did not know .. and having an address would have been nice .. or at least a place ( database ) to go look the info up on.. for the above mentioned reason.. but for the most part the name and e-mail has and will be fine.
I also feel that alerting the buyer as to where the info is going would only lead to more apprehension. Like others i think most of my customers think i allready have the info anyway..thanks and keep the good work..
If I have to chose - I say leave it alone. I don't want to lose out on the name and email address I am already getting.
Having said that - Have your lawyers advised that there is a legal reason why I am not entitled to the other info - minus the credit card - as i am the one conducting the buisness and smugmug helps facilitate it as a sort of partnership?
Just curious. You guys are awesome in everything you do. But I dont want to take a chance in losing the info I already get.
need to be able to offer packages, cds, etc
Here, Here! I am with you! I specifically logged on tonight to request the ability to add custom packages like you suggest below and/or to produce a CD. Other photo hosting websites offer this ability and more. It would be a huge benefit to my business as well....also, in sports photography.
I am not sure how this is going to help a pro any more?? We are given the email address and name of the customer with each order placed, if we needed to get in touch with a customer we can just email them? I think most customers would only allow there email as a contact anyway.
If SmugMug realy wants to help the PRO photographers, they should add different pkgs. for example (1-8x10, 2-5x7's, and 4-wallets) and other pkgs for a single price! this way we can offer a discounted pkg price, and help boost sales. Also, adding Photos on a baseball card or Sports Illustrated cover would be great! also selling digital images on a CD would be a great option, and one that has little overhead for smugmug since there is no printing involved.
Keep in mind, I am a sports photographer, and these are options that would really help me out, I am sure they will help most out. I have been with Smugmug since day 1, and intend on being with them for the long haul, but as my business grows, I need to be able to compeat with others that offer these items.
(C): [x] Would you like the photographer to have your address, phone number for contacting you about blah blah blah and he/she promises not to spam you under penalty of death.
If we are already given their email address and no one seems to have an issue with that, why even let them know that turning it off is an option?
And I agree - if this information is available to me online, that's totally fine. And if I can download it to CSV format for my own use, that's even better!
I'd be surprised if your merchant agreement allows you to release credit card information to third parties. I'm sure it would not make Visa and Mastercard too happy if you did. Besides who would be liable if that information is compromised? Instead you should reassure the purchasers that Smugmug protects and disposes of that information with the outmost dilligence.
As for the name and address, I sure would like to know who is buying my product and where is it being shipped to. Even if Smugmug prints it and mails it, it is still my product and my customer. Would it be be helpful to my business if at least I could know what city and state my customers are from? Indeed. Do I absolutely need to know the customer's street address? Not really, if I can at least contact them via email.
Thanks for asking anyway. It shows that Smugmug cares.
We're in the midst of testing some important new Pro features . You've given such great feedback, we're pretty sure we know where most Pros stand on most of the features.
When we've had questions in the past, dgrin debates have been a big help in getting things right.
The problem: Some Pros would love more contact info about who's buying their stuff. We'd love to be responsive to them. We just want to provide it in an ethically and legally sound way.
Currently, we share only the email address and the customer's first and last name with our pros. The buyer often comes to the Pro's SmugMug site because they know the Pro and it only makes sense that the Pro can contact them if there is a problem with the order, etc.
Consumers, though, are rightfully sensitive about sharing their personal information online. Some of our Pro sales come from people who aren't aware they're buying a Pro print.
To meet the needs of our Pros without ignoring the fears of our consumers, we think we should add an option to the shopping cart.
Two options we're considering:
1. Add the following text to the shopping cart at checkout:
"SmugMug provides your name and email to the photographer (Andy Williams) whose photos you're buying. Our terms with photographers forbid them from selling your contact info or using it for spam (link to definition of spam)."
The customer would then see two check boxes with the left one on by default.
(0) Just give them name and email ( ) Phone and address is okay (but not my credit card!)
Pros: You always get some contact information, even if it's just email address.
Cons: You may lose some sales from people who don't want to share their contact information.
2. Add this text to the shopping cart at checkout:
"Is it okay if we provide the photographer whose photos you're buying (Andy Williams) with your contact info? They are frequently helpful if there's a problem with the order."
(0) Yes, but not my credit card! ( ) Yes, but only my email. ( ) No.
Pros: You won't lose sales since customers feel they have control over their privacy.
Cons: You may get sales without any contact information.
Feel free to suggest wording changes or other options.
I've followed this thread here and there and it seems the major consensus is that the information Smugmug provides is currently (more than) enough. I have to agree. One poster who is a real estate/mortgage agent mentioned that at his open houses, many people don't sign the guestbook, or when they do, they give false information. Uhm, how do you know they give false information? Easy. Because you try to CONTACT them in some way, and in doing so, verify the information is incorrect. Which is exactly WHY they gave you false information in the first place. I looked at a house... I don't want to be hounded by phone calls, email or junkmail to try to encourage or bolster my interest or spending, and neither do my customers. And that's what most customers are going to assume, that if they give this info, it's going to be used whether it's a newsletter, mailing list, spam, home phone calls or physical junk mail. Who wants that?
I also have a second tier of concern. I am an event photographer and 80% of my sales come from parents buying prints of their children. In this day and age of a combination of weirdos and hysteria, people are very careful and selective with whom they share information, especially centered around their children, and who can blame them? My privacy policy is already very stringent (please view at http://www.downriverphotography.com/gallery/1596672 for insight). I have already had to edit this policy to include the recent addition of first and last name being provided to the photographer, which before read "No personal information is shared..." which is how I preferred it. I want the most secure, comfortable environment for my customers with nothing for them to wonder or worry about. It is easy enough to start an OPT-IN mailing list/form on your webpage if you have a need for customer names and addresses. However, by providing this information by default, I see no good use for it and only a potential for abuse. I can always request this information from individual buyers through valid email addresses. If there is an urgent issue that would actually require a home phone number or customer address, it would certainly be pressing enough to contact Smugmug over, and let them handle the intervention.
As for the last group of people that might say, "They're my photos and I want to/have a right to know who is buying my work!". If you put anything up for public sale, no, you really don't have a right to know anything. This isn't finding foster parents for your kids or a good home for your puppy. You cannot pick and choose. When you make a purchase at Best Buy, they ask for your zip code and you have every right to not give it to them. If you say "I have bikini photos of my wife and I want to know who is buying them and for what purpose!", not only is this unrealistic, but it's probably also illegal. You cannot pick and choose and discriminate between a fashion designer and a lewd old man. If it's sensitive enough to cause you concern, it should be in a passworded gallery where you know who has access to it and why.
I personally do not want anyone to feel anything but confidence in their purchase. I also don't want the added liability of being "privledged" with any more information. Many are already nervous about ANY online transactions and may have to overcome their fears just in doing business with Smugmug. Lets not add another facet of concern, eh?
Mine Mine Mine
I have read every post in this thread with great interest. For purposes of full disclosure (the lawyer in me), I have an Exposure Manager account but am in the process of struggling through customizing my SM page. I do think ExpMan has the right business model for the pro photographer on this issue. Basically, the customer belongs to the photographer and ExpMan is there to simply facilitate the photo ordering process. Everything that is sent from ExpMan to the customer appears to come from me, the photographer, with my name and contact info. I get e-mails and notifications of every step in the order fulfillment process which allows me to also make sure there are no snags or delays in the process. I also have access to the full order history for all of my customers. It makes me look like a much bigger operation that I really am and therefore brings me much more credibility. I get the customers' basic contact info - name, address, phone # and e-mail address. I DO WANT all of that info. As some other posters mentioned, I want to get that info to be able to do my own direct mail. As for the legal parts (although this is not by any means legal advice), as long as Smugmug discloses in their terms and conditions for a person using the site that the info is given to the photographer, I believe they are covered. It is a simple disclosure issue - not a choice issue. I do not think any customer will not purchase through Smugmug because their contact info is given to the photographer that actually took the picture they are purchasing. This is especially true for the event photographer, like me, where the captured audience is only getting to Smugmug because of me.
As far as the opt-out issue goes, as I understand the CANN-SPAM law, the opt-out is only required for unsoliciated e-mail advertising for people without an existing business relationship. Once a customer purchases from Smugmug, there is a business relationship established and the opt-out rules no longer are applicable. Obviously, you can confirm that with your attorneys.
With all that said, my opinion would side with the persuasive posters on this thread that suggest a pro-branding option for pro-accounts that would make it look as much like everything is being handled by the photographer, but certainly giving credit and mention that Smugmug is the service providing our order fulfillment. But the clients are mine, mine, mine.
I may be a little late into the fray, but here are my two cents!
How about automatically sending the zip code to the pro so that we can get some sort of demographics as far as sales are concerned? It would be nice to be able to plug in a CSV of all the zip codes and get an idea where our sales are going. Granted, most people are local photogaphers and may not really care where the buyers come from, but as an owner of two seperate and distinct businesses, I feel it would be a welcome addition to the sales reports.
Dietrich M. Duke
dietrichmd.smugmug.com
dietrichduke.com
"Think for yourself. Know what you're doing. Question authority." -Tim Leary's last words
I may be a little late into the fray, but here are my two cents!
How about automatically sending the zip code to the pro so that we can get some sort of demographics as far as sales are concerned? It would be nice to be able to plug in a CSV of all the zip codes and get an idea where our sales are going. Granted, most people are local photogaphers and may not really care where the buyers come from, but as an owner of two seperate and distinct businesses, I feel it would be a welcome addition to the sales reports.
Thanks for letting us know! I've added your suggestion to our feature request list.
How 'bout a Gallery Option to Register
I couldn't agree more with a single place where all of the historical customer e-mail contact info resides.
However, what I would really like to see is a "gallery option" to force people to register their e-mail address only on "Password Secured" galleries.
I upload galleries for specific clients as well as their family and friends with password protected viewing, and would like to reach these people to let them know when I'm going to run a special on a gallery to boost sales, or when I'm going to expire it so they have a chance to order photos before I remove them from my site. I especially want to reach those potential clients that haven't ordered, but have looked.
If they have registered, they should be informed that they have consented to being updated via e-mail about your specials and promotions. In the future, if they wish to be removed from your mailing list, they are free to contact you and make that request. Most people will be happy to register if it means they can see and order the photographs of their loved ones.
I am ok with the risk of turning them off when asking them to register, because I will more than make up for that lost sale with the promotions that reach everyone who has registered. And if it is a "gallery option", you could turn it off if you didn't want it.
If SmugMug truly offers a "Pro" package, I think it is a must to allow the "Pros" to better promote their business, otherwise it should be called a "Serious Amateur" package. The more SmugMug enables its "Pros" the more money we will make for ourselves and for them, and the more attractive the service becomes to those who don't look a SmugMug as a serious "Pro" service. After all this is our profession, and this is how we make a living. We can't afford to give a half-hearted effort, or we'll be looking for a second job.
I am impressed with the changes that have been made over the last year or so, and that's why I'm considering canceling my Pictage account and completely relying on SmugMug as my soul webservice. Just a few more steps, and SmugMug has everything I need. Please don't stop now.
I'm not (yet) a SM customer - just reading all this and trying to decide about SM vs other systems.
What I want is for the customer to think they are dealing with me, on my website and my ordering system. I realize that SM needs its name in things too, but for me ideally the customer would get the impression that there was no one else involved.
A MIVA cart system to make that really happen is quite expensive, so SM is a great option.
But after a sale I typically drop a postcard with a new picture in the mail every 3-4 months, send a holiday reminder with a coupon, etc. These are not rocket-science marketing ideas, and without the contact info pretty tough to do.
I like the 'order history' page idea - the info is not sent through e-mail and resides on SM's secure servers.
I am not sure how this is going to help a pro any more?? We are given the email address and name of the customer with each order placed, if we needed to get in touch with a customer we can just email them? I think most customers would only allow there email as a contact anyway.
If SmugMug realy wants to help the PRO photographers, they should add different pkgs. for example (1-8x10, 2-5x7's, and 4-wallets) and other pkgs for a single price! this way we can offer a discounted pkg price, and help boost sales. Also, adding Photos on a baseball card or Sports Illustrated cover would be great! also selling digital images on a CD would be a great option, and one that has little overhead for smugmug since there is no printing involved.
Keep in mind, I am a sports photographer, and these are options that would really help me out, I am sure they will help most out. I have been with Smugmug since day 1, and intend on being with them for the long haul, but as my business grows, I need to be able to compeat with others that offer these items.
Paul North
NORTH Photo
Exactly my thinking!
I shoot sport photos too - horses.
should add different pkgs. for example (1-8x10, 2-5x7's, and 4-wallets) and other pkgs for a single price! this way we can offer a discounted pkg price, and help boost sales. Also, adding Photos on a baseball card or Sports Illustrated cover would be great! also selling digital images on a CD would be a great option, and one that has little overhead for smugmug since there is no printing involved.
Rock on! I knew this had been requested several times in the past, but I never saw this thread discussion on it. I just went to my sales record page and suddenly had all the info. I thought I was imagining things. :giggle
Awesome...
It is so helpful to know where my orders are going. It is also helpful to have that address in case of an "emergency".
I had a client who had an issue with one of their photos they ordered. It wasn't something I wanted to send back to the helpdesk, so I was able to deal with the issue myself and send them a new print because I already had the info I needed.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">should add different pkgs. for example (1-8x10, 2-5x7's, and 4-wallets) and other pkgs for a single price! this way we can offer a discounted pkg price, and help boost sales. Also, adding Photos on a baseball card or Sports Illustrated cover would be great! also selling digital images on a CD would be a great option, and one that has little overhead for smugmug since there is no printing involved. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Me too, especially since that was posted in August 2006, over two years ago. I can't help but think there is some sort of simple discount or coupon options that would be easy to implement (immediately) while a slick 'meets-the-awesome-smugmug-standard' packages/coupons upgrade is developed.
Comments
No way on number two in its current version because we may get less info than we get now. Have you had any complaints from customers so far? If not, and I suspect not, then eliminating info to pros would piss us off. Being someone who only has images for sale in galleries with passwords that the customers get at events, from me, etc, all my customers came to my site for my site, not anyway through smugmug. I realize that not all Pros are this way but my impression from dgrin is most are and most have more than a majority of their sales purchased by customers that had some type of direct contact with them, similar to my situation.
So I like number 1 with one change. Put the line about the terms with the photographer after/below the options box.
It's been said in here somewhere, I'm sure, that my customers are just that, mine. Not SmugMugs. SmugMug is paid by me to do a job. My customer could careless who processes the photo's, they just pick the one's they like. Now if Smug doesn't do a good job, I lose a customer. And if that kept up, I would no longer choose to pay Smug to process my pictures. So I would think that the customers info should go to me, and to Smug. I see no need to tell the customer that the info is going here or there. I doubt any of them are too concerned about that. I think the disclaimer or warning would actually make some customers think a little harder, and maybe not order. Too many clicks, too much reading, too big a hassle.
Leave the warning off, provide the information, or as I said before let me turn the option off, because I don't want MY customers reading all that crap.
I think the current information (name and email) is enough.
If I needed more information from my customers I get it when I take the pictures. There are some who dont like to use computers etc so I will get an address then and there so i can mail them their proofs.
As far as the ordering process from a customer's perspective I think a great option would be for people to be able to create their own profile and login into SM. This would allow them to taylor their experience on the site with what what they are looking for. They can tell SM that they are usually looking for digital downloads, or pictures of horses, or macros of bugs, or what ever keywords they are usually searching for. When they log in they are presented with images what meet their search criteria, with their prefered photogs on the top and perhaps with a link to other photogs that may have what they are looking for. If they hit like say http://www.ballentphoto.com (shameless plug
For other folks that do not want to create profiles it can be business as usual.
Just my .02
Just take the picture
Pictures are at available at:http://www.ballentphoto.com
My Blog: http://ballentphoto.blogspot.com
You need to go to smugmug.com and enter any text in the search menu. You get a ton of option for anything you type in. The only thing that smugmug needs to add to have close to what you request is to have a radio button that has 1. all images 2. images available via prints 3. images available via digital download
I agree. If I do not need it let me turn it off !
I am new with my pro site with most of my sales coming from people at the event in which i shot... but my first sale however was from a person whom i did not know .. and having an address would have been nice .. or at least a place ( database ) to go look the info up on.. for the above mentioned reason.. but for the most part the name and e-mail has and will be fine.
I also feel that alerting the buyer as to where the info is going would only lead to more apprehension. Like others i think most of my customers think i allready have the info anyway..thanks and keep the good work..
Having said that - Have your lawyers advised that there is a legal reason why I am not entitled to the other info - minus the credit card - as i am the one conducting the buisness and smugmug helps facilitate it as a sort of partnership?
Just curious. You guys are awesome in everything you do. But I dont want to take a chance in losing the info I already get.
Here, Here! I am with you! I specifically logged on tonight to request the ability to add custom packages like you suggest below and/or to produce a CD. Other photo hosting websites offer this ability and more. It would be a huge benefit to my business as well....also, in sports photography.
Susan Jones
gymshots.smugmug.com
(C): [x] Would you like the photographer to have your address, phone number for contacting you about blah blah blah and he/she promises not to spam you under penalty of death.
If we are already given their email address and no one seems to have an issue with that, why even let them know that turning it off is an option?
And I agree - if this information is available to me online, that's totally fine. And if I can download it to CSV format for my own use, that's even better!
www.tippiepics.com
I'd be surprised if your merchant agreement allows you to release credit card information to third parties. I'm sure it would not make Visa and Mastercard too happy if you did. Besides who would be liable if that information is compromised?
As for the name and address, I sure would like to know who is buying my product and where is it being shipped to. Even if Smugmug prints it and mails it, it is still my product
Thanks for asking anyway. It shows that Smugmug cares.
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/
I've followed this thread here and there and it seems the major consensus is that the information Smugmug provides is currently (more than) enough. I have to agree. One poster who is a real estate/mortgage agent mentioned that at his open houses, many people don't sign the guestbook, or when they do, they give false information. Uhm, how do you know they give false information? Easy. Because you try to CONTACT them in some way, and in doing so, verify the information is incorrect. Which is exactly WHY they gave you false information in the first place. I looked at a house... I don't want to be hounded by phone calls, email or junkmail to try to encourage or bolster my interest or spending, and neither do my customers. And that's what most customers are going to assume, that if they give this info, it's going to be used whether it's a newsletter, mailing list, spam, home phone calls or physical junk mail. Who wants that?
I also have a second tier of concern. I am an event photographer and 80% of my sales come from parents buying prints of their children. In this day and age of a combination of weirdos and hysteria, people are very careful and selective with whom they share information, especially centered around their children, and who can blame them? My privacy policy is already very stringent (please view at http://www.downriverphotography.com/gallery/1596672 for insight). I have already had to edit this policy to include the recent addition of first and last name being provided to the photographer, which before read "No personal information is shared..." which is how I preferred it. I want the most secure, comfortable environment for my customers with nothing for them to wonder or worry about. It is easy enough to start an OPT-IN mailing list/form on your webpage if you have a need for customer names and addresses. However, by providing this information by default, I see no good use for it and only a potential for abuse. I can always request this information from individual buyers through valid email addresses. If there is an urgent issue that would actually require a home phone number or customer address, it would certainly be pressing enough to contact Smugmug over, and let them handle the intervention.
As for the last group of people that might say, "They're my photos and I want to/have a right to know who is buying my work!". If you put anything up for public sale, no, you really don't have a right to know anything. This isn't finding foster parents for your kids or a good home for your puppy. You cannot pick and choose. When you make a purchase at Best Buy, they ask for your zip code and you have every right to not give it to them. If you say "I have bikini photos of my wife and I want to know who is buying them and for what purpose!", not only is this unrealistic, but it's probably also illegal. You cannot pick and choose and discriminate between a fashion designer and a lewd old man. If it's sensitive enough to cause you concern, it should be in a passworded gallery where you know who has access to it and why.
I personally do not want anyone to feel anything but confidence in their purchase. I also don't want the added liability of being "privledged" with any more information. Many are already nervous about ANY online transactions and may have to overcome their fears just in doing business with Smugmug. Lets not add another facet of concern, eh?
Steve
http://www.downriverphotography.com
BizDev Account Manager
Image Specialist & Pro Concierge
http://www.downriverphotography.com
I have read every post in this thread with great interest. For purposes of full disclosure (the lawyer in me), I have an Exposure Manager account but am in the process of struggling through customizing my SM page. I do think ExpMan has the right business model for the pro photographer on this issue. Basically, the customer belongs to the photographer and ExpMan is there to simply facilitate the photo ordering process. Everything that is sent from ExpMan to the customer appears to come from me, the photographer, with my name and contact info. I get e-mails and notifications of every step in the order fulfillment process which allows me to also make sure there are no snags or delays in the process. I also have access to the full order history for all of my customers. It makes me look like a much bigger operation that I really am and therefore brings me much more credibility. I get the customers' basic contact info - name, address, phone # and e-mail address. I DO WANT all of that info. As some other posters mentioned, I want to get that info to be able to do my own direct mail. As for the legal parts (although this is not by any means legal advice), as long as Smugmug discloses in their terms and conditions for a person using the site that the info is given to the photographer, I believe they are covered. It is a simple disclosure issue - not a choice issue. I do not think any customer will not purchase through Smugmug because their contact info is given to the photographer that actually took the picture they are purchasing. This is especially true for the event photographer, like me, where the captured audience is only getting to Smugmug because of me.
As far as the opt-out issue goes, as I understand the CANN-SPAM law, the opt-out is only required for unsoliciated e-mail advertising for people without an existing business relationship. Once a customer purchases from Smugmug, there is a business relationship established and the opt-out rules no longer are applicable. Obviously, you can confirm that with your attorneys.
With all that said, my opinion would side with the persuasive posters on this thread that suggest a pro-branding option for pro-accounts that would make it look as much like everything is being handled by the photographer, but certainly giving credit and mention that Smugmug is the service providing our order fulfillment. But the clients are mine, mine, mine.
How about automatically sending the zip code to the pro so that we can get some sort of demographics as far as sales are concerned? It would be nice to be able to plug in a CSV of all the zip codes and get an idea where our sales are going. Granted, most people are local photogaphers and may not really care where the buyers come from, but as an owner of two seperate and distinct businesses, I feel it would be a welcome addition to the sales reports.
Dietrich M. Duke
dietrichmd.smugmug.com
dietrichduke.com
"Think for yourself. Know what you're doing. Question authority." -Tim Leary's last words
Thanks for letting us know! I've added your suggestion to our feature request list.
-Anne
I couldn't agree more with a single place where all of the historical customer e-mail contact info resides.
However, what I would really like to see is a "gallery option" to force people to register their e-mail address only on "Password Secured" galleries.
I upload galleries for specific clients as well as their family and friends with password protected viewing, and would like to reach these people to let them know when I'm going to run a special on a gallery to boost sales, or when I'm going to expire it so they have a chance to order photos before I remove them from my site. I especially want to reach those potential clients that haven't ordered, but have looked.
If they have registered, they should be informed that they have consented to being updated via e-mail about your specials and promotions. In the future, if they wish to be removed from your mailing list, they are free to contact you and make that request. Most people will be happy to register if it means they can see and order the photographs of their loved ones.
I am ok with the risk of turning them off when asking them to register, because I will more than make up for that lost sale with the promotions that reach everyone who has registered. And if it is a "gallery option", you could turn it off if you didn't want it.
If SmugMug truly offers a "Pro" package, I think it is a must to allow the "Pros" to better promote their business, otherwise it should be called a "Serious Amateur" package. The more SmugMug enables its "Pros" the more money we will make for ourselves and for them, and the more attractive the service becomes to those who don't look a SmugMug as a serious "Pro" service. After all this is our profession, and this is how we make a living. We can't afford to give a half-hearted effort, or we'll be looking for a second job.
I am impressed with the changes that have been made over the last year or so, and that's why I'm considering canceling my Pictage account and completely relying on SmugMug as my soul webservice. Just a few more steps, and SmugMug has everything I need. Please don't stop now.
I'm not (yet) a SM customer - just reading all this and trying to decide about SM vs other systems.
What I want is for the customer to think they are dealing with me, on my website and my ordering system. I realize that SM needs its name in things too, but for me ideally the customer would get the impression that there was no one else involved.
A MIVA cart system to make that really happen is quite expensive, so SM is a great option.
But after a sale I typically drop a postcard with a new picture in the mail every 3-4 months, send a holiday reminder with a coupon, etc. These are not rocket-science marketing ideas, and without the contact info pretty tough to do.
I like the 'order history' page idea - the info is not sent through e-mail and resides on SM's secure servers.
www.finesart.com
smugmug did it! I don't know when, 'cause you did it on the sly, but you finally caved.
Thank you. Finally, all of those customers of mine that already thought they were giving me their contact info finally are.
I'd love to know what brought about the change.
Thanks again, and I mean that sincerely. Oh, and it's about damn time.
Last release: http://blogs.smugmug.com/release-notes/2008/06/27/new-shopping-cart-june-27-2008/
What brought it about? We listen! Some things take longer than others, but we do listen
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Thanks again.
Exactly my thinking!
I shoot sport photos too - horses.
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Hi Andy,
Didn't read the date!
What I am interested is the rest of the quote
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Thank you!
This makes it easier to just mail extended costumers a thank you card or other coupons or specials I may run.
for you" and there/ their is no grammar check yet so please forgive me Jesus did.
My Web site:
http://Glory2Jesus4Photography.smugmug.com/
My blog: http://glory2jesus4photography.blogspot.com/
It is so helpful to know where my orders are going. It is also helpful to have that address in case of an "emergency".
I had a client who had an issue with one of their photos they ordered. It wasn't something I wanted to send back to the helpdesk, so I was able to deal with the issue myself and send them a new print because I already had the info I needed.
THANKS SMUGMUG!!
Me too, especially since that was posted in August 2006, over two years ago. I can't help but think there is some sort of simple discount or coupon options that would be easy to implement (immediately) while a slick 'meets-the-awesome-smugmug-standard' packages/coupons upgrade is developed.
Nikon | Private Photojournalist